High End Hi-fi In Bangkok

[CarlBkk]

To be honest I'm not yet clued-up about decent cabling - I used to be 10 years ago, but not now. I'll do some research as I get closer to my purchase though. For my system in the UK I used higher end Audioquest and QED (both British) which did the job as interconnects - the nice chaps at Hi-Fi News donated the new QED Silvers to me :-). I used Monster Bi-wire for the speakers.

Nordost and Van Den Hul ring bells as being well-reviewed, but not sure what's available in Thailand.

[tso310]

Has anyone done used any mains purifaction devices in Thailand. I certainly use them to good effect in the UK especially using propriatry mains cabling.

All this talk of Krells reminds me of when the KSA-50 first hit the UK circa 85. There was talk that whenever one was switched on all the lights in the streets would dim such was the power surge. Still one of the best systems I have ever heard Goldmund T/T Koetsu cartridge, Krell amps and those killer 1amp impedance Apogee speakers.

[CarlBkk]

I remember when the KSAs were getting rave reviews too, with footnotes about your electricity bill doubling! Koetsu was renowned as the best cartridge of the time I seem to remember...I had a measly Rega Planar 3 and some Stax ESL headphones which were amazing. Why did you get rid of that system?! Sounds amazing on paper. Another system that stood out for me was an Audio Note integrated amp, a top-loading CD player (looked like a Michell Gyrodec but just can't remember the name) driving some Apogee Centaurs.

I did try a Lynwood mains conditioner...£50 which seemed a lot to spend on a small black box and cable at 17. It did bugger-all. I think I've still got it in the bottom of a drawer somewhere.

[tso310]

Carl I said heard not bought. Hi Fi news show at Heathrow circa 85/86. The price was 35k pounds sterling, oh to have been single ! I would definately have bought a KSA50 which was only 1250 pounds at the time. I have to disagree about mains cable as I think the difference is very noticable.

Cable Kimber 8TC,half price E-Bay, and solid core silver for most of interconnects with Kimber elsewhere.

Apogee stopped production after Mageplanar claimed patent infringements.

I am interested if anyone has any experience of products from Norh and what their Thai prices are like. Some of the equipement coming out of China has been getting good reviews. Have they reached the Thai market ? One thing that I have noticed is that there does seem to be a healthy high-end market. Some of the shops mentioned were around when I first went to Thailand in 1983.

[Nordlys]

I have to disagree about mains cable as I think the difference is very noticable.

Depends on the AC cable I think. I don't want to spend a lot of money on these accessories but yes, with a line conditioner it makes a lot of difference (more focus, more depth in accoustic field), must-have item for me. There are Thai-made line conditioners. I think Silicon Power Supply is quite a big name for audiophiles in Thailand for line conditioner/power control/voltage stabilizer. They sell those items from anywhere from B8K ~ B3K (while imported PS audio, Transparent, Burmester and other makes can cost as much as B200,000 in Thailand), I bought mine for 2nd hand at B7,000 (with two AC cables). I also have five "noise eliminator" that looks like an AC adopter for any small electronic appliance which you plug in any open outlet in your room that shares the same circuit breaker as where your hi-fi set is. Difference isn't as noticeable as a line conditioner but gives an added effect to it (sold for B1,500 ~ B2K a piece but bought for B500 during hi-fi fair).

I am interested if anyone has any experience of products from Norh and what their Thai prices are like. Some of the equipement coming out of China has been getting good reviews.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't Norh made in Thailand anyway? Never seen it sold here though.

[CarlBkk]

Just bought some UK hi-fi mags in Bookazine Siam Square - didn't know anywhere stocked up-to-date ones so I can compare more product prices now.

Re mains cables, the Lynwood mains filter I bought didn't make any difference to my ears - possibly because my system wasn't transparent enough or that the difference in sound quality wasn't big enough. A change of speaker cables gave a good difference though (from £5 per metre Monster to £30 per metre Ixos).

From Nohr's website I see they are made in Bangkok. Small scale operation it seems and the British owner is convinced they're the best (they may be), but have they won any awards or featured strongly in the hi-fi press? Haven't seen it yet but I'll keep my eyes open. Marble cabinets are an interesting concept - they'd cost a fortune to make abroad!

[Nordlys]

Re mains cables, the Lynwood mains filter I bought didn't make any difference to my ears - possibly because my system wasn't transparent enough or that the difference in sound quality wasn't big enough. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The most noticeable change with AC cable replacement is at the same volume level you normally set the volume knob of the amp, you can clearly tell the music turning louder. It takes some time to tell the difference anyway as most new cables require some 100 hours of aging to get its intended performance, be it ac cables or speaker cables, so the difference isn't always so dramatic when you just replaced your cables with new ones.

Edited August 13, 2005 by Nordlys

[mamypocopants]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned this yet, maybe they have because I am lazy to read all the posts, but on the 5th floor at Panthip Plaza, right at the top , at the back, there is a second hand hifi shop with some nice high end equipment, including a range of valve amps etc......Didn't look too much but you may find some items of interest in there, some older equipment but the guy who runs the shop is definitely an enthusiast...

[syd barrett]

To all you guys, the knowledge here is great, it took me one hour to read the posts, just a bit of advice please.....

My front end is a REGA 3 with a K9 and in the UK I had an Arcam Alpha amp and great TANNOY Jupiters.

I have only brought my REGA over to Thailand, and want a nice amp and speakers; what do you suggest? I know this is old inferior stuff, I am so out of touch. But I miss the great sound, I have a rubbish cheap Hi-Fi and it is driving me nuts.....

Any links would be great, to save time. Thanks.

[lovejoy]

the only amp worth buying is the new digital i-tech crown

but you would also need a processer and various bits and bobs

they only weigh around 30 lbs and dont overheat

they come with a bunch of different power cords that you can plug right in

no adapters transformers needed

they have usb ports also

[tso310]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned this yet, maybe they have because I am lazy to read all the posts, but on the 5th floor at Panthip Plaza, right at the top , at the back, there is a second hand hifi shop with some nice high end equipment, including a range of valve amps etc......Didn't look too much but you may find some items of interest in there, some older equipment  but the guy who runs the shop is definitely an enthusiast...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wondered what had happened to that place. Used to be on the ground floor many years ago. Definately worth a look.

To Syd - Never mind what we all recommend just go and have a listen and if you find something that you really like and can afford then great. The shops that have been mentioned are good but some equipement may be out of your price range. Take your Rega with you if you can. I'm pretty sure that Norh have demo facilities at their place.

[CarlBkk]

Great! I was asking around where that second hand shop in Pantip was, so I just took a visit. Was closed at the time but some interesting classics displayed in the window from Naim, Audiolab, Linn, Proceed, Cary, Audio Research and even some Marantz SACD players.

Syd, I'd recommend the new Exposure integrated am or possibly a Primare if you can stretch to it. However, if you're not bothered about staying with British makes and want to get an amp over here in Thailand then the second hand shops at Fortune Town are definitely worth a look - some classic machines in there. British makes are not bargains but obviously cheaper to buy while in the UK and bring over if you can. As for me, with the style of music I like, I think my potential system is more suited to the higher power American makes which are far too heavy to consider bringing over.

Some useful websites:

www.hifiwigwam.com

www.hifichoice.co.uk

www.hififorsale.com

Visited a few shops last week:

KS Sons Group on Ratchada: Disappointing, mostly second hand highly priced equipment from McIntosh, Esoteric etc. and no Quad 988s as promised. However, huge array of cables mostly from XLO and a Jeff Rowland Consonance/Model 5 for 190,000 that caught my eye.

Fortune: Some great little shops here with some real specialist hidden gems. Loads of valve amps and some brand new models (Moon, Bow, T&A) receiving rave reviews. Quad 988s were in (not sounding too good in their set-up though) and some very interesting second hand shops. I found a Krell pre-power KSL2/KSA200s for 120,000 B. What do you think? Difference in sound quality vs. extra cash for brand new Krell?

One owner was saying how Martin Logans always have a problem in Thailand with the humidity (popping sounds intermittently) while other makes of ESLs don't seem to have it.

[Nordlys]

Fortune: Some great little shops here with some real specialist hidden gems.  Loads of valve amps and some brand new models (Moon, Bow, T&A) receiving rave reviews.  Quad 988s were in (not sounding too good in their set-up though) and some very interesting second hand shops.  I found a Krell pre-power KSL2/KSA200s for 120,000 B.  What do you think?  Difference in sound quality vs. extra cash for brand new Krell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That Krell must be the ones I saw, they were gray in color weren't they? Pre and two mono power amps for each channel? But I thought they quoted me lower price (less than B100K but not sure).

As for me, I'm in Tokyo at the moment, was in Akihabara this afternoon and visited one audio shop called Dynamic Audio, one shop occupying 8 stories building, all floors displaying high-end audio and each with listening rooms (one floor for accessories only). They even have nice catalogues of all imported brands available in Japanese. Being in Tokyo makes me feel shopping for hi-fi products in Thailand so stupid visiting all these small and cheesy showrooms with little products to offer but at much higher price than here. This one shop in one building had any high-end brands you can name, pretty sure more than the entire high-end audio market in Thailand can offer. Spent some B10,000 on CD/DVD demagnetizer and terminal contact cleaner. There were some nice speaker plinth that are just the right size for my tower speakers but while the products are affordable the weight is almost 8kg a piece so not viable shipping it to Thailand paying freight many times the price of the product.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Nordlys

[CarlBkk]

The Krells I found were indeed grey/black but only pre/power...not monos. Everything looked ok and they were hooked up on demo at the time. 100,000 baht for pre/monos?! Where????

Second hand shop in Pantip has Jeff Rowland model 10s so going to have a look tomorrow. I'm sure I'll end up with Krells though, new or 2nd hand. Realised that a home demo for the Martin Logans is a must now I've been warned about humidity affecting them. Just have to get a suitably large living room first!

The shops in Japan you were describing sound amazing. Must take a trip there sometime next year. There are CD players by new high end Chinese company Shanling that are making waves at the moment....they look very space-age though with blue neon. Apparently very keenly priced as I'd expect from China, although I can't recall any big high end products from them before.

If you're considering the Bladelius, you might want to take a look at amps by Bow, Primare and Bel Canto too.

[Nordlys]

So the Krell you saw came in two pieces (pre + one stereo power amp)? The set I saw at Fortune came in three pieces (pre + two monaural power amps = stereo) and if I remember correctly they gave me a price of B70,000 for the whole set. I don't remember the model name but given the size of these power amps they must have been very high end models.

Yes, I've seen Danish Bow Technology amps and I love the design but the sound was so-so and although they are discounted these days for it must have been more than 5 years since its release, I'd rather go for newer, higher grade amp. Where did you see Primare and Bel Canto? And Shanling? I've heard of this Chinese Shanling and believe it is sold in Japan too but haven't heard it's making big waves. How are they selling in UK and other farang land?

I'm still thinking of Accuphase E-530 which is more than B200K in Thailand and also a similar new pure class-A integrated amp from Luxman (L-590A), but seems Luxman no logner has a distributor in Thailand. And I'll probably get a new DSLR from Canon that was just released in Japan this week instead of an amp, it'll probably a long time before I'll get any new hi-fi component again. Frankly I don't have big complaint with the sound quality of the stereo set I have now and believe it is as good as it can get for the price I paid. Just not so sure how much room is left for sound improvement by spending over B100K on an amplifier unless I change the entire set especially the speakers (which I don't want to).

So are you pretty much settled with Martin Logan + Krell set? When are you gonna get them?

Edited August 26, 2005 by Nordlys

[CarlBkk]

Yep, the only Krell they have is a pre/power (2 pieces). Now just phoning around some of the guys there to find out if there are any other Krell/Wadia/Martin Logan options around, and at what price. It seems, in the typical Thai way, they can buy off another shop at a low price then add a little margin before selling to me...kind of like a broker. After many nights of internet research I have the opinion that the older Krells (such as that in the Fortune) sound better with Martin Logans than the newer more clinical ones. Also, the high end CD players such as the Wadia sound as good as a cheaper SACD player, while most SACD players don't replay normal CDs to as good quality. Quite interesting.

I'm pretty keen on the second hand market now for these products as I feel I can get as good sound quality as buying new but paying half the price. The only thing is, after research, is that I feel the prices they've quoted me are on the high side, possibly as I'm a foreigner. I will make some offers this week. I would need to test everything with the speakers, so they would be the most important thing to buy first logically, although on paper the products I like match together well. The other problem will be guarantees and warranties - there are none. Sometimes I wish I could find the Thai sellers directly to get better prices, but I don't know of any website/newspaper/magazine where second hand items are traded here.

Lastly, although I'm worried about the items I want being sold...I am months away from a new apartment where they'll fit in. If I bought them now I'd have to put them into storage as I'll be going back to UK for 4 months :-( (I know, you'll offer them a happy home until I return right? )

I haven't seen Primare in Thailand, only in the UK so far, but a shop in Fortune has a lovely Bel Canto valve amp in the window. Shanling is getting talked about a lot and very well reviewed...people in the UK are after them already. Haven't seen any in Thailand yet, but the price from China must be superb. Their CD players are the ones being talked about and the range is appearing in USA (www.audiogon.com) for sale. From the photos they look too gimmicky, but I'd have to see one in the metal.

I don't think you can go wrong with Accuphase in terms of components, build and sound. I for one couldn't purchase makes like McIntosh, Accuphase or Audio Research due to their appearance alone - to me I love the modern look and they are very classic, retro and industrial. However, there are thousands who disagree with me :-)

I'll also be looking for a tuner for Thailand (I guess there's no DAB in thailand yet?), but I might be better off getting one in the UK (such as Naim or Meridian) and bringing it back over - not too heavy.

[Nordlys]

Also, the high end CD players such as the Wadia sound as good as a cheaper SACD player, while most SACD players don't replay normal CDs to as good quality.  Quite interesting.

Hi Carl,

My understanding (as far as my SACD player manufacturer Marantz is concerned) is that SACD player plays normal CD in better sound quality than a CD only player of the same price range. And I would assume SACD goes along quite well with electro-stat speakers. But I guess that depends on the kind of music you listen to. I remember from the earlier post that you like rock/pops and want "punchy and fast" sound but perhaps care less for resolution and detail of the sound, then you may not need SACD player as there aren't many SACDs available for that genre of music anyway. However, that contradicts with the choice of your speaker (electro-static) as I think they tend to play classic chamber music (especially string instruments but not big orchestra) better than rock/pop, generally speaking (especially QUAD ESL series but perhaps less so with Martin Logan?). Martin Logan looks very nice in terms of design, but if I were going to get electro-stat I'd probably go for a model that plays the entire range without a cone speaker (woofer).

I'm pretty keen on the second hand market now for these products as I feel I can get as good sound quality as buying new but paying half the price.  The only thing is, after research, is that I feel the prices they've quoted me are on the high side, possibly as I'm a foreigner.  I will make some offers this week.  I would need to test everything with the speakers, so they would be the most important thing to buy first logically, although on paper the products I like match together well. The other problem will be guarantees and warranties - there are none.  Sometimes I wish I could find the Thai sellers directly to get better prices, but I don't know of any website/newspaper/magazine where second hand items are traded here.

Are you sure you want to get the entire set 2nd hand including the speakers?

And let's be realistic - can you really find the brand/model you want in the condition and price you want when you want it, when there's virtually no such thing as a 2nd hand hi-end audio market in LOS? - sounds to me like a big compromise you'll have to make. It's a huge expense when you are getting a new high-end audio set all at once. Why not get a pair of new speakers first, buy a rather moderately priced CD player (B50,000 max perhaps) and a cheap amplifier (I bought my Aura integrated amp for B25,000 and I liked it much better than some B80,000+ ARCAM I tested in my condo) and change your component (perhaps amp first, CD player next) step by step when you have the money to buy them new? And that's exactly what I'm doing now (contemplating changing my Aura that I bought two years ago), though I like my Aura so much that I probably won't get a better integrated amp unless I spend many times the money I paid for it (at least B100K).

Lastly, although I'm worried about the items I want being sold...I am months away from a new apartment where they'll fit in.  If I bought them now I'd have to put them into storage as I'll be going back to UK for 4 months :-(  (I know, you'll offer them a happy home until I return right?  )

I think you have to make the move if you are lucky enough to find the component you want in the condition and price you want whether or not you are ready to use it, don't you?

I don't think you can go wrong with Accuphase in terms of components, build and sound.  I for one couldn't purchase makes like McIntosh, Accuphase or Audio Research due to their appearance alone - to me I love the modern look and they are very classic, retro and industrial.  However, there are thousands who disagree with me :-)

Yeah, each to their own but I'd prefer more classic, retro looks of McIntosh and Accuphase (don't really care for that big watt meters though) and have second thought about Krell KAV400xi because of it's too contemporary design. But that maybe simply because I'm older than you and I have a taste for antiques.

I'll also be looking for a tuner for Thailand (I guess there's no DAB in thailand yet?), but I might be better off getting one in the UK (such as Naim or Meridian) and bringing it back over - not too heavy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If UK power voltage is same 220V as in LOS (which I believe it is) and if the component is small enough to fit in a carry-on baggage like Linn or Meridien (I wouldn't risk packing it in check-in baggage) then I would seriously think about hand carrying it from the UK. I would then buy an AC cable in Thailand so you won't need an adopter to plug it in your home outlet (you wouldn't want to use the cheap power cable that came with the component anyway). And how about Chord "Choral" series that come in sizes small enough that you can probably fit both the pre and power amp in your backpack (beautiful pieces of hardware they are, but heavy albeit small)?

Edited August 30, 2005 by Nordlys

[CarlBkk]

Hi,

Yes, I think that your Marantz and a few other higher end SACD players are the exception in that they CAN play CDs better than an equivalent value CD player. However, according to reviews and discussions, most high end (2000 GBP+) CD players will outperform a similarly priced SACD player playing CDs. Reviews of the Marantz are very favourable but there already seems to be several for sale on the second hand market in Thailand already for some reason (maybe bored of the new toy?). Listening tests of most other SACD players under the Marantz didn't produce such exciting results, even using SACDs.

After you said that not many SACDs of my type of music are in production, I think that makes my mind up for me (I haven't even listened to it yet, haven't researched what titles are available, but for me to move to a new format I'd have to have a massive choice to keep me occupies. I'm quite picky with my musical preferences).

I'm excited to hear ESLs play my type of music (soft rock, vocals, harder rock and even some good trance and dance music...I'm still young don't forget! ). After all, the newer MLs with decent woofers were tested, especially in USA mags like Stereophile, with harder rock and came out very well. We shall see. I'll put them up against a good box speaker.

You were right about the Krell monoblocks for sale in Fortune - they are still there, but the two are 70,000 B together, not including the pre-amp. How long ago did you see them there? I didn't notice they were Krell because they're REALLY old...10 years old in fact, and look very different. The 2nd hand market is quite small in LOS, yes, Thais like to buy new I guess. However, the 3 or 4 shops I've found are really stocked up with good stuff - some rich owners must be changing their components very soon after purchase. They put their item in the shops then the shop takes a commission if/when they're sold. There's a customer having a demo of some Martin Logans in Fortune tomorrow, so they called me to have a demo of the Krell/ML + any source anytime that day too. I'm going along at 6pm so come along if you want to and have a listen with me! I feel happy that I have found the components I was after here (Wadia transport/dac, Krell pre/power, Martin Logans) all on the 2nd hand market if I want them. At least, this is the system I want on paper! At the moment I'm considering (resting on demo results) buying the Wadia and Krell first before they get sold, and then possibly buying speakers new later on in a few months. After all, speakers make the most difference to the sound and I'd say they are the most sensitive to their source components.

I like Aura amps...very very smooth sounding and quite valve-like. However, the Krell KAV400xi is meant to be THE best integrated amp at any price on the market now! That's a big statement, and of course subjective. It's pretty slimline and contemporary, you're right.

The voltage in UK is 240, so components need some messing around to work if I was to transfer them between countries. Apparently nothing too difficult though.

Hope to see you there tomorrow with your CDs!

Carl

[Nordlys]

Sorry Carl, but I couldn't make it to the demo this evening. How did it go? Did they have demo on 2nd hand models you were looking for? Which Krell/Wadia models were they and how much is their offer? What model Martin Logan speakers are you looking for and how much is it? Is Khun Wuti offering any discount on Martin Logans?

Edited August 31, 2005 by Nordlys

[CarlBkk]

Sorry Carl, but I couldn't make it to the demo this evening.  How did it go?  Did they have demo on 2nd hand models you were looking for?  Which Krell/Wadia models were they and how much is their offer?  What model Martin Logan speakers are you looking for and how much is it?  Is Khun Wuti offering any discount on Martin Logans?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, you didn't miss much...as is often the case here I turned up and they hadn't got the equipment ready or communicated to the other shop that their Martin Logans were needed for the demo. Thus, no Martin Logans, but the Krell pre/power, CEC transport and Audio Analogue DAC with old JBL speakers. It didn't really tell me much because the speakers weren't very good, so I'll have to go back tomorrow when they've sorted out the Martin Logans for demo.

The Krell I like is the KSL-2 pre with KSA-200S power amp (155,000 for both, but I could get a discount I'm sure). Obviously I can't demo the Wadia as it's in Pantip but that's less important at this stage. The MLs they have in a nearby shop are second-hand SL3s (quite tall) - maybe not the model I want but I need to hear a typical Krell/Martin Logan sound with my CDs. K.Wuti does offer a discount on new MLs (they have a margin of around 50,000 B I found out, so I know how much discount I can negotiate ).

I'll be there again tomorrow at 6pm for another listen so come along if you want...

Carl

[Nordlys]

Hi Carl. I'm working in Ayutthaya today and I don't think I can leave work before 5 to make it at Fortune at 6. I don't know these Krell models but B155K for both the pre and power doesn't sound like a bad deal. What year model are they? And B50K margin is for which model M/L speakers? Anyway good luck and happy shopping.