Red Shirt Faction Leader Warns Some Red Shirts May Become Suicide Bombers

[jcbangkok]

Not sure of "red suicide bombers" becoming a reality. But then again I do remember a number of reds stating they wanted to die during the takeover of BKK .... this included some old women who didn't want to go to the temple when the authorities moved in.

However, I could see Red leaders giving some of their followers a backpack to deliver to somebody which, unknowingly to the follower, contains a bomb.

CRES & DSI would really want to contact you for these sensitives info you hav egot. Can you still recall the face of their followers that deliver backpacks?

Hehehe, this is a perfect example of "lost in translation".

chantorn, "see" in the context of the phrase "I could see" used here by jcbangkok really means "imagine" or "envision".

I can understand the misinterpretation though, because jcbangkok's first paragraph is about something he actually witnessed in real life, so some people might assume that his next sentence is also something that he witnessed.

There's a bit more to it than that I feel. It's really obfuscation, not only do some people assume that jcbangkoks' second sentence refers to something he witnessed, it was a deliberate ploy for that to happen i.e paint the picture that "Red leaders" are so evil that they would plant a bomb on one of their followers. I am fairly sure that Chantorn had picked up on that and was basically calling jcbangkoks' bluff. Am I right?

Wow! Thank you for thinking I would put so much planning into a post in order to manipulate those reading it. But you are clearly wrong. I simply stated an opinion in the last sentence. Had I thought about the number of non-native English speakers here, I might not have used the term " I could see" even though there are very few people fluent in English who would take this wrong. And referring to what I said in the first paragraph (you call a sentence) makes little sense since a new paragraph in itself is defined as NEW idea or thought.

[rametindallas]

Yes, we know it. "I could see ..." means it is all just the little voices in your own head and in your imagination.

Thanks for sharing your dreams. It is sooooo interesting. NOT.

Regardless of how old you are ... it is not too late to enjoy life and truly like yourself. Please let me know if I can recommend some reading material to help you be more content with yourself and life.

So many of your posts cry out curmudgeon and scream out your unhappiness with yourself as you show your contempt for others while constantly putting up a false front of feeling superior.

PS. If my non-threatening posts bore and upset you so much that you feel a need to reply ignorantly ... maybe you should stop reading and replying to them. Again, the word curmudgeon comes to mind ... but being so is certainly not a healthy way to live life.

+1

lol

Do you have these little voices in your head too?

It seems you're the only one talking about 'little voices'. Tell me, what do they say to you?

[Buchholz]

Thai anti-government leader indicted for insulting monarchy

BANGKOK (AFP) -- The leader of an offshoot of Thailand's "Red Shirt" movement was indicted Thursday on charges of insulting the monarchy with a speech given two years ago, a court official said.

Surachai Danwattananusorn, who faces 15 years in prison if convicted by the Criminal Court, is accused of criticising the royal family when he addressed supporters of his "Red Siam" group on December 15, 2008 in a Bangkok park.

The 68-year-old denies the charges, which were made under Thailand's strict lese majeste rules.

Anti-government "Red Shirts", whose April and May rallies descended into violent clashes between troops and protesters that left over 90 people dead, distance themselves from Red Siam because of its radical left-wing politics.

[animatic]

Not sure of "red suicide bombers" becoming a reality. But then again I do remember a number of reds stating they wanted to die during the takeover of BKK .... this included some old women who didn't want to go to the temple when the authorities moved in.

However, I could see Red leaders giving some of their followers a backpack to deliver to somebody which, unknowingly to the follower, contains a bomb.

CRES & DSI would really want to contact you for these sensitives info you hav egot. Can you still recall the face of their followers that deliver backpacks?

Hehehe, this is a perfect example of "lost in translation".

chantorn, "see" in the context of the phrase "I could see" used here by jcbangkok really means "imagine" or "envision".

I can understand the misinterpretation though, because jcbangkok's first paragraph is about something he actually witnessed in real life, so some people might assume that his next sentence is also something that he witnessed.

There's a bit more to it than that I feel. It's really obfuscation, not only do some people assume that jcbangkoks' second sentence refers to something he witnessed, it was a deliberate ploy for that to happen i.e paint the picture that "Red leaders" are so evil that they would plant a bomb on one of their followers. I am fairly sure that Chantorn had picked up on that and was basically calling jcbangkoks' bluff. Am I right?

Well then consider the poor slub driving the gas canister to the front of BJT headquarters, and nearly blow up with it. He didn't think that one up on his own did he? It seems some 'leaders' in Red land ARE that evil or desperate for power. It need not be top echelon leaders, but there are many levels of sub leaders working on a theme from the top.

Edited October 22, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Hahaha, LM charges are trial behind close doors in Thailand. Serve them right for insulting the royal families.

Only Da Torpedo's trial was behind closed doors.

By all accounts what she said was so inflammatory it was needed.

99+ % of LM trials are in the open, but you know that.

So 3 languages; Thai, English and what?

Burmese, Cambodian, Lao, Lanna?

Edited October 22, 2010 by animatic

[TheyCallmeScooter]

It seems you're the only one talking about 'little voices'. Tell me, what do they say to you?

Although the question was not directed to me, I feel avoiding it would be inappropriate. Full disclosure is required, mostly by my current levels of boredom.

I am not lucky enough to hear voices - more's the pity - but, when incredibly sleep-deprived and drunk, I have (on occasion) tasted shapes and heard colours.

I don't mean to brag.

And, if you're wondering, squares taste a lot like chicken.

[animatic]

So do frogs legs.

[SergeiY]

It seems you're the only one talking about 'little voices'. Tell me, what do they say to you?

Although the question was not directed to me, I feel avoiding it would be inappropriate. Full disclosure is required, mostly by my current levels of boredom.

I am not lucky enough to hear voices - more's the pity - but, when incredibly sleep-deprived and drunk, I have (on occasion) tasted shapes and heard colours.

I don't mean to brag.

And, if you're wondering, squares taste a lot like chicken.

Some 'envisions' and 'imaginations' aka 'i could see...' come with a soundtrack that smells like bullshit.

[jcbangkok]

It seems you're the only one talking about 'little voices'. Tell me, what do they say to you?

Although the question was not directed to me, I feel avoiding it would be inappropriate. Full disclosure is required, mostly by my current levels of boredom.

I am not lucky enough to hear voices - more's the pity - but, when incredibly sleep-deprived and drunk, I have (on occasion) tasted shapes and heard colours.

I don't mean to brag.

And, if you're wondering, squares taste a lot like chicken.

Some 'envisions' and 'imaginations' aka 'i could see...' come with a soundtrack that smells like bullshit.

It is apparent you have first hand experience with such visions, sounds and smells.

Edited October 22, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Bizz]

I have the utmost respect for the royal family as I see them as the saviour of Thailand.

what I also see is a discosent among the people of the north with a willingness to fight, why is not anyone seeing this suffering from these people are you all hiding behind the base that the reds are all evil.

[jcbangkok]

I have the utmost respect for the royal family as I see them as the saviour of Thailand.

what I also see is a discosent among the people of the north with a willingness to fight, why is not anyone seeing this suffering from these people are you all hiding behind the base that the reds are all evil.

I don't think any one would disagree that Thailand is a developing nation which by definition will have many problems that need to be addressed and few that are quick fixes.

What I do think people question are Red Leader's motives as well as their ability to manipulate poor and largely uneducated people with cheap bribes. Thaksin did VERY little to help the folks out in the north long term. In fact, most are struggling more now because of the loans Thaksin provided without any over sight as to having these folks use the money to better their farming capabilities. The only people who got rich off these loans were the village leaders (Red leaders). Abhisit has not taken away any policy aimed at providing these people a better life and in fact has gone a step further with some including completely free healthcare. The only message the Reds have is overthrow the current government... never do they ask for anything to do with a better quality of life for them or their children ... it is simply to bring back Thaksin by removing the current government.

I think the other big thing people have a problem with is the Red's methods. Law obeying citizens have no patience to listen to problems of those who act like terrorists, seize parts of Bangkok and set fire to the commercial district of the Capital.

It is a shame too. If the Red leaders ever tried to actually help the people, instead of themselves, outsiders might listen ... then again they would need to actually have an agenda since their message to date has been hate with very little talk of goals or ideas to help the people in the north beyond ousting the current government.

Edited October 22, 2010 by jcbangkok

[yoshiwara]

Hahaha, LM charges are trial behind close doors in Thailand. Serve them right for insulting the royal families.

For hard-core red apologists Thaksin is their royal family. The bitterness shows.

[animatic]

I have the utmost respect for the royal family as I see them as the saviour of Thailand.

what I also see is a discosent among the people of the north with a willingness to fight, why is not anyone seeing this suffering from these people are you all hiding behind the base that the reds are all evil.

Few if anyone has actually said that here.

What has been said many times is:

There are real grievances for the grass roots people.

No one disputes this, nor is against making things better for them.

That the entrenched system has to change, and that the age of communications

is causing that change to accelerate faster than conservative factions can deal with.

That a new generation of newly rich power brokers is trying to move in on the old guard and is not being even slightly subtle about it. Vicious and amoral at best.

The red leaders are using the poor and their grievances as a stalking horse against the government, for their own reasons, and not because of those grievances.

Some red leaders, since it is a loose coalition to build greater numbers, are old school socialists and even classic communists, and are anti-monarchy as a basic platform of their philosophy.

Some red leaders or backers, are the very same amoral uber-capitalists who have been keeping the average poor person financially hamstrung for generations.

Many of the Red base have been brainwashed, or indoctrinated if you prefer, into believing lies, by their leaders, for their leaders pursuit of power. Most of those who are anti-Red-Leaders, abhor this and are anti-red BECAUSE of this abuse of the poor people. Not to be against the poor people favoring the super rich.

One method has been the spurious myth of the 'Cult Of Thaksin'. To this day they hold this arch capitalist out as the savior of the poor. If 10% of his wealth were used to improve the lot of the poor in Issan, without bureaucracy and siphoned off funds the reality would be astonishing to the residents. Instead they see crumbs, and mythologizing of those crumbs from the masters table into Manna from Lanna.

This is on going and those that see through the smoke screen are saddened by it.

and try to discredit said false leadership of the reds, BECAUSE they think the poor deserve real honest leadership.

So no one or very few is saying 'all reds are evil.' But most all non-reds think the red leadership abuses the red base. In pursuit of power and not the betterment of the common man.

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic

[Siam Simon]

I have the utmost respect for the royal family as I see them as the saviour of Thailand.

what I also see is a discosent among the people of the north with a willingness to fight, why is not anyone seeing this suffering from these people are you all hiding behind the base that the reds are all evil.

Few if anyone has actually said that here.

What has been said many times is:

There are real grievances for the grass roots people.

No one disputes this, nor is against making things better for them.

That the entrenched system has to change, and that the age of communications

is causing that change to accelerate faster than conservative factions can deal with.

That a new generation of newly rich power brokers is trying to move in on the old guard and is not being even slightly subtle about it. Vicious and amoral at best.

The red leaders are using the poor and their grievances as a stalking horse against the government, for their own reasons, and not because of those grievances.

Some red leaders, since it is a loose coalition to build greater numbers, are old school socialists and even classic communists, and are anti-monarchy as a basic platform of their philosophy.

Some red leaders or backers, are the very same amoral uber-capitalists who have been keeping the average poor person financially hamstrung for generations.

Many of the Red base have been brainwashed, or indoctrinated if you prefer, into believing lies, by their leaders, for their leaders pursuit of power. Most of those who are anti-Red-Leaders, abhor this and are anti-red BECAUSE of this abuse of the poor people. Not to be against the poor people favoring the super rich.

One method has been the spurious myth of the 'Cult Of Thaksin'. To this day they hold this arch capitalist out as the savior of the poor. If 10% of his wealth were used to improve the lot of the poor in Issan, without bureaucracy and siphoned off funds the reality would be astonishing to the residents. Instead they see crumbs, and mythologizing of those crumbs from the masters table into Manna from Lanna.

This is on going and those that see through the smoke screen are saddened by it.

and try to discredit said false leadership of the reds, BECAUSE they think the poor deserve real honest leadership.

So no one or very few is saying 'all reds are evil.' But most all non-reds think the red leadership abuses the red base. In pursuit of power and not the betterment of the common man.

There is quite a lot to agree with in this post. All that is needed now is for the OP and his little gang of forum bullys to apply the magnifying glass to the current bunch of uglies running the show. No need to panic, guys. Thailand won't collapse like a stack of cards if you do.

[whybother]

There is quite a lot to agree with in this post. All that is needed now is for the OP and his little gang of forum bullys to apply the magnifying glass to the current bunch of uglies running the show. No need to panic, guys. Thailand won't collapse like a stack of cards if you do.

If the alternative wasn't considerably more ugly, that might be a bit easier.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

So no one or very few is saying 'all reds are evil.' But most all non-reds think the red leadership abuses the red base. In pursuit of power and not the betterment of the common man.

Yeah it's a solid post...but....

This is purely a personal position of mine which I'm aware is moving right rapidly; but I'm just losing more and more of the high levels of sympathy / empathy I had for the Red Shirts who were NOT part of a jump-on-the-bandwagon agenda faction like the Pinkos you mention, and the capitalists that want to whet their beaks. I had a lot of sympathy for the poor Reds dragged along by forces of change which had been quite unconscionably and intentionally mistranslated for their 'benefit'. Nothing worse than seeing people get used.

But at what point is their idiocy just no longer worthy of empathy? That sounds so much less PC than I really meant it to sound lol...but there has to be a line, right? Someone is giving you 5 apples. Someone is giving you 50 apples. You want to attack the guy giving you 50, because the guy who gave you 5 you like more? Ok but....why? I don't understand the cult power he holds over their simpleton minds. I don't understand the levels of stupidity they possess. None can explain why they want Thaksin. They just...want him. Are they so stupid they think he's still paying them NOW when they collect their Subsidy for Life payments every few days or w/e? This is quite literally the only theory I have right now. That they think he's still shipping them all the cash they're receiving courtesy of Abhisit.

What's going on with these cretins?

If I'm the only one who's losing sympathy for their non-existent plight, which they are rejecting the golden liferafts offered in favour of straws tossed into the air by Thaksin...I'll shut up. But seriously, I think I've passed the point of no return - the Sympathy Fleet has sailed on these jokers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouliIhghHIM&feature=player_embedded

[AleG]

But at what point is their idiocy just no longer worthy of empathy? That sounds so much less PC than I really meant it to sound lol...but there has to be a line, right? Someone is giving you 5 apples. Someone is giving you 50 apples. You want to attack the guy giving you 50, because the guy who gave you 5 you like more? Ok but....why? I don't understand the cult power he holds over their simpleton minds. I don't understand the levels of stupidity they possess. None can explain why they want Thaksin. They just...want him. Are they so stupid they think he's still paying them NOW when they collect their Subsidy for Life payments every few days or w/e? This is quite literally the only theory I have right now. That they think he's still shipping them all the cash they're receiving courtesy of Abhisit.

I wonder the same, perhaps its something like imprinting, where a geese for example gets "attached" to whoever is nearby during the first hours or days after hatching.

Thaksin was the first PM that (in appearance at least) courted the poorer, disenfranchised masses, so they become attached to him regardless of it being a Machiavellian manipulation* or getting more and better redress for their needs from Abhisit.

*To be fair Machiavelli wasn't actually that creepy.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

But at what point is their idiocy just no longer worthy of empathy? That sounds so much less PC than I really meant it to sound lol...but there has to be a line, right? Someone is giving you 5 apples. Someone is giving you 50 apples. You want to attack the guy giving you 50, because the guy who gave you 5 you like more? Ok but....why? I don't understand the cult power he holds over their simpleton minds. I don't understand the levels of stupidity they possess. None can explain why they want Thaksin. They just...want him. Are they so stupid they think he's still paying them NOW when they collect their Subsidy for Life payments every few days or w/e? This is quite literally the only theory I have right now. That they think he's still shipping them all the cash they're receiving courtesy of Abhisit.

I wonder the same, perhaps its something like imprinting, where a geese for example gets "attached" to whoever is nearby during the first hours or days after hatching.

Thaksin was the first PM that (in appearance at least) courted the poorer, disenfranchised masses, so they become attached to him regardless of it being a Machiavellian manipulation* or getting more and better redress for their needs from Abhisit.

*To be fair Machiavelli wasn't actually that creepy.

I could never work out why Machiavelli gets vilified and Dale Carnegie is lauded. Maybe because Machiavelli was a lot brighter. Or because Carnegie framed his little manipulation instruction manual as a positive "How to WIN FRIENDS and Influence People" lol. Pretty sure it's still all the same crap, though. They were both realists. Both writing books advising how to manipulate others to do what you want them to do. Both full of common-sense stuff.

Imprinting hmm? Maybe. Yeah I think you're onto something there. I was leaning towards the good old-fashioned cult-like brainwashing phenomenon; but after reading up on imprinting, I think that explains it a bit better. A bit of "Baby Duck Syndrome" which I would imagine we're all susceptible to...

Baby Duck Syndrome is a term used to refer to the tendency of computer users to prefer the systems that they learn on, and to reject the unfamiliar. In addition to applying to operating systems, Baby Duck Syndrome applies to software programs, keyboard layouts, and other electronics. This concept has a firm basis in psychology, as many humans have a known preference for maintaining the status quo, rather than exploring new possibilities.

Thaksin was first one in, they embraced what he was selling - and the new and unknown frighten them. They know Thaksin. Times were good with Thaksin. Happy times, exciting times of mobile phones, and Keynesian booming consumerism with endless possibilities! Never mind that it was unsustainable. Let the good times roll!

Once he was the first one in, I imagine their media sources aren't really the varied viewpoints / critically analytical types. They probably hear "government propaganda" and instinctively start hissing or something. Back to the safety of the "Red Power" channels - bringing the comfort of the Known (with a healthy measure of rhetoric / propaganda) delivering their version of "The No Spin Zone" right into their Isan homes.

Then those types of presenters dial up the hyperbole and the rhetoric and before you know it, you've got entrenchment of positions going on. And any attempt you make to expose them to a different view, the more entrenched they get.

I'm thinking an analogy with a 14 yr old girl hooking up with some dirtbag, and the more her parents trashtalk or ridicule him and try to get her to come to her senses, the fiercer she defends him and they effectively just drive her smack into his welcoming arms. That's a pretty generic, almost clichéd, phenomenon. Is that a kind of imprinting thing or Baby Duck Syndrome going on there? It's all a bit blurred. I think it's as simple as our human tendency to feel safe with what we know. The dirtbag induced the first heart flutter, and it will take some Act of God to rend them asunder once the entrenchment begins.

Thaksin is the 19 yr old unemployed bum waiting in his Totoya Camira outside the high school for his little 14 yr old girlfriend to get out of class. Of course she's infatuated so see doesn't recognise the prison tattoos, or his goatee, wife-beater singlet, the two sons dropped off his house at random hours by their junkie mother and all the little 'clues' that she's picked a real winner.

Not sure what we are in this analogy. Friends of the family or something. I tried to help, thinking it would be as simple as pointing out the obvious and she would come to her senses but what do you know...no luck. After months of putting up with her borrowing cash for endless implausible emergency after another, now she's started simply breaking in and stealing my shit to hock at Cash Converters so the two of them can score.

I let the first few break-ins slide, tried to convince her parents not to give up hope, she'd come good, he was just controlling her, she just needed to see reason, etc. But we have to face up to realities. It's a lost cause now.

She's ripped the TV out from the wall, spilled drinks and left garbage all over the place, carpet has cigarette burns and smouldering patches, place smells like smoke, windows smashed and when I called her up I received a colourful abusive rant as the credit cards she stole just happened to mostly be maxed out which was obviously unacceptable in her opinion - and pretty selfish for me to only be worrying about my apartment when she's jonesing.

She's started yelling incoherently into the phone now and I hang up, shaking my head. As I walk around my apartment shell-shocked, I realise I'm just no longer feeling humanitarian...the sympathy is gone.

There's gotta be a line somewhere. I never know where it is, but I know when I've passed it.

[animatic]

There is quite a lot to agree with in this post. All that is needed now is for the OP and his little gang of forum bullys to apply the magnifying glass to the current bunch of uglies running the show. No need to panic, guys. Thailand won't collapse like a stack of cards if you do.

If the alternative wasn't considerably more ugly, that might be a bit easier.

And there is the crux of the problem.

[animatic]

So no one or very few is saying 'all reds are evil.' But most all non-reds think the red leadership abuses the red base. In pursuit of power and not the betterment of the common man.

Yeah it's a solid post...but....

This is purely a personal position of mine which I'm aware is moving right rapidly; but I'm just losing more and more of the high levels of sympathy / empathy I had for the Red Shirts who were NOT part of a jump-on-the-bandwagon agenda faction like the Pinkos you mention, and the capitalists that want to whet their beaks. I had a lot of sympathy for the poor Reds dragged along by forces of change which had been quite unconscionably and intentionally mistranslated for their 'benefit'. Nothing worse than seeing people get used.

But at what point is their idiocy just no longer worthy of empathy? That sounds so much less PC than I really meant it to sound lol...but there has to be a line, right? Someone is giving you 5 apples. Someone is giving you 50 apples. You want to attack the guy giving you 50, because the guy who gave you 5 you like more? Ok but....why? I don't understand the cult power he holds over their simpleton minds. I don't understand the levels of stupidity they possess. None can explain why they want Thaksin. They just...want him. Are they so stupid they think he's still paying them NOW when they collect their Subsidy for Life payments every few days or w/e? This is quite literally the only theory I have right now. That they think he's still shipping them all the cash they're receiving courtesy of Abhisit.

What's going on with these cretins?

If I'm the only one who's losing sympathy for their non-existent plight, which they are rejecting the golden liferafts offered in favour of straws tossed into the air by Thaksin...I'll shut up. But seriously, I think I've passed the point of no return - the Sympathy Fleet has sailed on these jokers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouliIhghHIM&feature=player_embedded

Scooter,

now you can see what 10 solid years of world class indoctrination can lead to.

I give Team Thaksin credit that have created nearly a generation of true believers in

a fantasy world by staying on message and building a myth around a figurehead.

It's no wonder you don't understand it, you haven't been subjected to the methods employed. It's not a case of being stupid, while some are after years of education, and some aren't with no education. It's a case of the big lie told consistently and endlessly and shutting out all dissenting viewpoints until the lie becomes the reality. This is EXACTLY the type pf scenario that can breed zealots that COULD become bombers or even suicide bombers.

It's partly old school Maoist control theory, classic religious cult reinforcement

and partly media black out of dissenting voices. Is it any wonder you don't understand why they think like this?

Edited October 24, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Niccolo Machiavelli was not vilified, but the subject he modeled his essays on

was Prince Cesar Borgia, brother of Lucrezia the likely poisoness for profit,

was a worthy villian prince of his days.

"The name "Borgia" was synonymous with betrayal, murder, and powermongering."

Machiavelli was actually more of a consiglierie or Foreign/Finance/War Ministers.

Cesar was a classic war lord in the pre-Renaissance mode,

but existing during the early Renaissance. Machiavelli wrote much about

his campaigns and believed methods in his masterwork 'The Prince'.

And greatly affected the concept of leadership in the periods directly afterwards,

and the relations ships between proto-states and princes or kings.

Machiavelli, "in the course of his diplomatic missions within Italy he became acquainted

with many of the Italian rulers and was able to study their political tactics, particularly those

of the ecclesiastic and soldier Cesare Borgia, who was at that time engaged in enlarging

his holdings in central Italy. From 1503 to 1506 Machiavelli reorganized the military defence

of the republic of Florence. "

Edited October 24, 2010 by animatic

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Niccolo Machiavelli was not vilified, but the subject he modeled his essays on

was Prince Cesar Borgia, brother of Lucrezia the likely poisoness for profit,

was a worthy villian prince of his days.

I meant his 'reputation' / name has been vilified.

If someone describes a colleague or a politician or a boss as Machiavellian...chances are they're not intending it as a compliment.

As for (Lie*100=Truth), I'm certainly seen the effects of it up close. It's powerful stuff.

The victims have to want to be a part of it, however. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[animatic]

Niccolo Machiavelli was not vilified, but the subject he modeled his essays on

was Prince Cesar Borgia, brother of Lucrezia the likely poisoness for profit,

was a worthy villian prince of his days.

I meant his 'reputation' / name has been vilified.

If someone describes a colleague or a politician or a boss as Machiavellian...chances are they're not intending it as a compliment.

As for (Lie*100=Truth), I'm certainly seen the effects of it up close. It's powerful stuff.

The victims have to want to be a part of it, however. It's a symbiotic relationship.

Yes, the man lent his name inextricably with the concepts he documented.

[Thai at Heart]

So no one or very few is saying 'all reds are evil.' But most all non-reds think the red leadership abuses the red base. In pursuit of power and not the betterment of the common man.

Yeah it's a solid post...but....

This is purely a personal position of mine which I'm aware is moving right rapidly; but I'm just losing more and more of the high levels of sympathy / empathy I had for the Red Shirts who were NOT part of a jump-on-the-bandwagon agenda faction like the Pinkos you mention, and the capitalists that want to whet their beaks. I had a lot of sympathy for the poor Reds dragged along by forces of change which had been quite unconscionably and intentionally mistranslated for their 'benefit'. Nothing worse than seeing people get used.

But at what point is their idiocy just no longer worthy of empathy? That sounds so much less PC than I really meant it to sound lol...but there has to be a line, right? Someone is giving you 5 apples. Someone is giving you 50 apples. You want to attack the guy giving you 50, because the guy who gave you 5 you like more? Ok but....why? I don't understand the cult power he holds over their simpleton minds. I don't understand the levels of stupidity they possess. None can explain why they want Thaksin. They just...want him. Are they so stupid they think he's still paying them NOW when they collect their Subsidy for Life payments every few days or w/e? This is quite literally the only theory I have right now. That they think he's still shipping them all the cash they're receiving courtesy of Abhisit.

What's going on with these cretins?

If I'm the only one who's losing sympathy for their non-existent plight, which they are rejecting the golden liferafts offered in favour of straws tossed into the air by Thaksin...I'll shut up. But seriously, I think I've passed the point of no return - the Sympathy Fleet has sailed on these jokers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouliIhghHIM&feature=player_embedded

Scooter,

now you can see what 10 solid years of world class indoctrination can lead to.

I give Team Thaksin credit that have created nearly a generation of true believers in

a fantasy world by staying on message and building a myth around a figurehead.

It's no wonder you don't understand it, you haven't been subjected to the methods employed. It's not a case of being stupid, while some are after years of education, and some aren't with no education. It's a case of the big lie told consistently and endlessly and shutting out all dissenting viewpoints until the lie becomes the reality. This is EXACTLY the type pf scenario that can breed zealots that COULD become bombers or even suicide bombers.

It's partly old school Maoist control theory, classic religious cult reinforcement

and partly media black out of dissenting voices. Is it any wonder you don't understand why they think like this?

But doesn't this 10 years of indoctrination simply sit alongside 70 odd years of indoctrination and control of information that has been going on largely unabated and indeed supported by the state? Thaksin has simply commandeered it, and made his message all the more enticing by putting a bit of hard cash alongside his words.

I am not saying that indeed a lot of people who blindly support the reds have been fed propaganda. However, it takes one to know one, and I can't help looking at the education system of the country and believe that in itself it is no unsubtle way, blatant propaganda too. Thaksin simply tapped into the mechanism that has been created to make Thai people sit up, pay attention and follow without asking too many complicated questions. It goes on everyday in schools, governmental edict, pooyai statement and blind respect for elders or seniors.

It may be perceived to be "good" propaganda, but nonetheless, propaganda.

This is why the government today are finding it so hard to fight Thaksin politically. Even Sonthi has come out and noted that the failure of the current government has been to not follow "populist" policies. The people who support the reds will need a hel_l of a lot more convincing that pretty words on the TV. The people who support Thaksin believe rightly or wrongly that Thaksin is better for them than any other option. This blind affection or obligation is mirrored in many other aspects of Thai culture.

Mix it up with some cash, and there you have it. Cult hero personified. It didn't take much, it is just it took someone to realise that many of the people are sick and tired of ineffective two faced politicians, businessmen and civil servants who continually talk down to them and have largely pretended they don't exist other to plant crops. Hardly rocket science in terms of marketing.

[otherstuff1957]

Look up Pibul Songram, dictator of Thailand, on and off, from the late '30s to the '50s. There was a fellow who had a real personality cult going! Virtually all of the ultra-nationalistic habits of the Thais date from his terms in office. Personally, I think that Thaksin would like to be a 21st century version of old Pibul.

[SergeiY]

Look up Pibul Songram, dictator of Thailand, on and off, from the late '30s to the '50s. There was a fellow who had a real personality cult going! Virtually all of the ultra-nationalistic habits of the Thais date from his terms in office. Personally, I think that Thaksin would like to be a 21st century version of old Pibul.

Really?

And the Democrats, aren't they trying very hard to play the nationalistic line?

[jdinasia]

Look up Pibul Songram, dictator of Thailand, on and off, from the late '30s to the '50s. There was a fellow who had a real personality cult going! Virtually all of the ultra-nationalistic habits of the Thais date from his terms in office. Personally, I think that Thaksin would like to be a 21st century version of old Pibul.

Really?

And the Democrats, aren't they trying very hard to play the nationalistic line?

LOL ...

Um ... compared to Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai line? No ....

The Dems are fairly conservative but not even close to being "ultra-nationalistic". Perhaps you are thinking of the PAD? They are slightly more nationalistic than the average Thai, but still nothing like the line Thaksin drew (while stealing from his countrymen and selling to foreign countries!), strange that they bought into his line considering his actions isn't it?

[SergeiY]

Look up Pibul Songram, dictator of Thailand, on and off, from the late '30s to the '50s. There was a fellow who had a real personality cult going! Virtually all of the ultra-nationalistic habits of the Thais date from his terms in office. Personally, I think that Thaksin would like to be a 21st century version of old Pibul.

Really?

And the Democrats, aren't they trying very hard to play the nationalistic line?

LOL ...

Um ... compared to Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai line? No ....

The Dems are fairly conservative but not even close to being "ultra-nationalistic". Perhaps you are thinking of the PAD? They are slightly more nationalistic than the average Thai, but still nothing like the line Thaksin drew (while stealing from his countrymen and selling to foreign countries!), strange that they bought into his line considering his actions isn't it?

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

[whybother]

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

[jdinasia]

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Hmmmmm OK we can't discuss a political party that has nationalism as it's name! There must certainly be an agenda here somewhere!