Thai Economist Calls For Urgent Reduction In Income Inequity

[Thai at Heart]

Before anything change here the Thai Government will have to take a new course and embark on a number of democratic reforms aimed at flattening the income distribution, eliminating poverty, ensuring social services such as retirement, medical care, and disability benefits to all, and putting more of the capital into a kind of trust. To get to this it would include implementation of a high progressive income tax, higher tax on luxury goods, higher tax on property sales, special taxes on automobiles, tobacco, alcohol, cosmetic items, etc.

The new Thailand year 2060.

They don't need to increase taxes on luxuries one cent. They just need to get people to pay the income and corporate taxes that are on the books. And by this I am not talking about companies on the SET but the so called upper middle class who live in a world of cash and no tax.

[Pib]

Before anything change here the Thai Government will have to take a new course and embark on a number of democratic reforms aimed at flattening the income distribution, eliminating poverty, ensuring social services such as retirement, medical care, and disability benefits to all, and putting more of the capital into a kind of trust. To get to this it would include implementation of a high progressive income tax, higher tax on luxury goods, higher tax on property sales, special taxes on automobiles, tobacco, alcohol, cosmetic items, etc.

The new Thailand year 2060.

Just add a special 10% tax on every cell phone sold and the govt could fully fund a welfare program and still run a budget surplus.

[SergeiY]

Where my Mom lives is out in the middle of nowhere and there are LOTS of really poor folks living there...all on welfare...most doing meth...

with or without socks?

[SergeiY]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

Everyone likes to dump on China -- we in Thailand would be fortunate to have such a government that is decisive, proactive and tries to assist the people. Whether you like the government of China or not ( and most do not, because they are 'communist' ) , and whether you consider Thailand to be more ' democratic' than China ( which is open to debate), you must face facts -- China takes action to assist the poor, reduce pollution, eliminate corruption, and assist the people in times of crisis ( such as the earthquake in Myanyang).

Yesterday, my mother -in-law went to pick up her 'pension' from the government -- a shameful sum of 500 baht for a senior over tha sge of 60 .

China has compulsory retirement at age 60 for men and 50 for women -- a single retiree receives the equivalent of 3500 baht each month ( still not a fortune) --- and does not need to queue up to get it.

Not everyone - its much more only an US-American thing to rant about China when ever they can.

[JurgenG]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

[Traxster]

Income equality in Thailand ???

Yeah,right......like that;s gonna happen some time soon.

Don't hold your breath......... :whistling: :whistling:

[asiawatcher]

Income 'distribution' has nothing to do with democracy. Fairness and commercial sensibilities and transparent governance does. When Thailand cleans up the inherent problem of wide spread corruption, a lot of the 'fairness' and equality may just start to peek through the maze of scandals.

And in the west the large companies have creative accountants to 'minimise' tax whereas the same system works here by a combination of paying off those who could reveal discrepancies or simply inaccurate reporting. Thailand is no different to the west in the rich have and the poor don't. The difference being the social security that creates some sort of levelling between the two. The west has to suck dry the PAYE tax payer (wage earner) to pay for the handouts. Corporates taxes add but not the full amount that could be realised. Thailand - if it were to introduce social security as in the West models - would go down faster than the Titanic as it modus operandi at large is scam what you can.

Stimulus and not populist political policies are necessary and not senseless tax increases. If Thailand would begin cleaning up its act (if ever) there could be some changes but not the way the country is structured at present irrespective of Government.

[backsoon]

Oh, no! Not again! In the name of Peace, Freedom of speach, Democracy, Political Stability and Preservation of Thai National Identity... will somebody shut up 'The Nation'? One provocation after another... ! Eliminate Powerty... Reduce Income Inequity... Reduce/eliminate Corruption... Change the unfair Laws... And all this from the Top?... From the Government?... Some Economist!!!

A great many people will be squashed in the streets, before anything like this will happen. Meanwhile, - smile:) .

By the way, Economics is not a Science, it is considered an Art. The only vital artform in this field is called Political Economics. The actual results of which are never intended... nor even wanted.

[inmysights]

Abhisit to have the guts to implement the long standing implementation of the Land Tax would be a good start. Thousands upon thousans of rai apportioned to just one family, thus freeing up a large potion of this countries resources to allow the poor to generate their own income. But he won't.

[canuck1941]

This professor has laid out the choice for Thailand. His remarks about how the upper class can save itself with income redistriburtion are encouraging, for without it civil unrest is inevitable and stability leading to growth of wealth in the kingdom is impossible.

what?

how is elite gonna prosper by having peasents get closer to them? socialism just kills ambition. everyone is worse off.

How very wrong you are. The Tories (thieves) said the worse thing that was ever done was to educate the working class. How can you possibly better your lot from some rural homestead in Isaan as opposed say, to a middle/'high' class family with connections in Bangkok?

By the way, your term 'peasants' is very offensive and simply shows up your Daily Mail/Sun/Telegraph reader mindset.

The Thai economist, and I, said the elite would "suvive". We most definitely did not say the elite have to prosper.

[canuck1941]

Where my Mom lives is out in the middle of nowhere and there are LOTS of really poor folks living there...all on welfare...most doing meth...

The reason the government of China is not liked is not because it is communist. It hasn't been communist for decades. It is because the government is totalitarian and brooks no criticism.

[Thai at Heart]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

The curious contradiction of the Chinese Communist party, is that despite being dictatorial and all the other things that people criticise it for, it has to give the people what they want. The only justification the Communist party has to its people is to say, "See our system works best", and so far it is doing OK. It is the one size fits all, Conservative, Labour, Democrat and Republican party that changes its colours as per requirement.

The Chinese people want wealth and better society, so that is what the government endeavours to do. Wait for the day that it doesn't and change will come. Until then, the people of China are largely happy to put up and shut up, and Beijing has to break its balls to deliver.

[craigt3365]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

The curious contradiction of the Chinese Communist party, is that despite being dictatorial and all the other things that people criticise it for, it has to give the people what they want. The only justification the Communist party has to its people is to say, "See our system works best", and so far it is doing OK. It is the one size fits all, Conservative, Labour, Democrat and Republican party that changes its colours as per requirement.

The Chinese people want wealth and better society, so that is what the government endeavours to do. Wait for the day that it doesn't and change will come. Until then, the people of China are largely happy to put up and shut up, and Beijing has to break its balls to deliver.

You have to be kidding. Ever been to Western China? They would love to be independent again. Like Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. The people there are really poor and the rich are doing land grabs all over the place. Read the news and you will see (at least Western news as the news in China is totally censored). The communist leaders are totally concerned about the masses revolting...it happened not too long ago and that is how they got into power....

[tigermonkey]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...acific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

The curious contradiction of the Chinese Communist party, is that despite being dictatorial and all the other things that people criticise it for, it has to give the people what they want. The only justification the Communist party has to its people is to say, "See our system works best", and so far it is doing OK. It is the one size fits all, Conservative, Labour, Democrat and Republican party that changes its colours as per requirement.

The Chinese people want wealth and better society, so that is what the government endeavours to do. Wait for the day that it doesn't and change will come. Until then, the people of China are largely happy to put up and shut up, and Beijing has to break its balls to deliver.

You have to be kidding. Ever been to Western China? They would love to be independent again. Like Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. The people there are really poor and the rich are doing land grabs all over the place. Read the news and you will see (at least Western news as the news in China is totally censored). The communist leaders are totally concerned about the masses revolting...it happened not too long ago and that is how they got into power....

I have lived in China ( Sichuan) and while some of the things you say have some truth , most is exaggerated " Western news". I am surprised with each visit I make to China that the flow of news and criticism is becoming more open all the time - especially on television and the internet . Naturally, there is considerable bias to reporting on government television ( CCTV) -- but no more so than the opposite bias in "Western news".

Where did you live in China?

Edited October 16, 2010 by tigermonkey

[caughtintheact]

Khun Somkiat has a great idea on how to equalize poverty. Seems that it might just have come from that old masterpiece of literature called, "The Communist Manifesto". Since so many on this forum seem to like the idea of wealth redistribution, the program should start with the Farangs (all Farangs are rich, right?) having 80% of their income confiscated as tax to help the poor, every month.

[craigt3365]

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...acific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

The curious contradiction of the Chinese Communist party, is that despite being dictatorial and all the other things that people criticise it for, it has to give the people what they want. The only justification the Communist party has to its people is to say, "See our system works best", and so far it is doing OK. It is the one size fits all, Conservative, Labour, Democrat and Republican party that changes its colours as per requirement.

The Chinese people want wealth and better society, so that is what the government endeavours to do. Wait for the day that it doesn't and change will come. Until then, the people of China are largely happy to put up and shut up, and Beijing has to break its balls to deliver.

You have to be kidding. Ever been to Western China? They would love to be independent again. Like Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. The people there are really poor and the rich are doing land grabs all over the place. Read the news and you will see (at least Western news as the news in China is totally censored). The communist leaders are totally concerned about the masses revolting...it happened not too long ago and that is how they got into power....

I have lived in China ( Sichuan) and while some of the things you say have some truth , most is exaggerated " Western news". I am surprised with each visit I make to China that the flow of news and criticism is becoming more open all the time - especially on television and the internet . Naturally, there is considerable bias to reporting on government television ( CCTV) -- but no more so than the opposite bias in "Western news".

Where did you live in China?

I have not lived in China, but have spent almost 7 months traveling there. My best friend has lived in Shanghai now for 5 years and I have 2 other very good friends who live in HK and Bejing. They give me the current lay of the land on a regular basis as we have some investments in China together (real estate). So I try to stay on top of things.

I met a guy who ran a tour guide service in China. He was pushed out by the brother of one of the government leaders. Totally illegal, but he says it happens all the time.

For sure news is biased everywhere in the world, but in China, it is controlled. Big difference. In the US, you can go on Fox News and say you hate Obama. You can't do that in China. In the US you can go on the news and say you were pushed out of your biz by the brother of a government official, in China...well...you know what would happen. Reference the current Chinese uproar over the award of the Nobel Peace Price to that guy there...his wife is now under house arrest...

[Hardie]

Blogs are illegal in China. You can't even access them, much less start one. They don't even know a Chinese man won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Poor people in the US can have land. Actually prices in the Deep South are as cheap or cheaper than Chiang Rai. Yes, I've checked prices in both places. Hunting's good, too, wild deer...

Income leveling is a noble goal and should be encouraged, but it has to be a structural solution, especially by education. To change the country you have to change the culture and there's always resistance to that, witness US Tea Party... and any effort to roll back the bar and prostitution scene in Thailand. When whores make better money than doctors, where's the motivation?

[tigermonkey]

Blogs are illegal in China. You can't even access them, much less start one. They don't even know a Chinese man won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Poor people in the US can have land. Actually prices in the Deep South are as cheap or cheaper than Chiang Rai. Yes, I've checked prices in both places. Hunting's good, too, wild deer...

Income leveling is a noble goal and should be encouraged, but it has to be a structural solution, especially by education. To change the country you have to change the culture and there's always resistance to that, witness US Tea Party... and any effort to roll back the bar and prostitution scene in Thailand. When whores make better money than doctors, where's the motivation?

Just a quick note on blogging in China -- it is not ilegal, but certain content is illegal. There is an expectation of self-censorship, as was evident in the recent Google licence flap . You can criicize but not be libellous or promote sedition -- the same as ICT is trying to do here in Thailand. I have actively blogged in China with no problem -- as do many other expats in China -- have a look at www.expat-blog.com/en/directory/asia/china/

...but that is not the subject of this thread !

Edited October 17, 2010 by tigermonkey

[Gonsalviz]

I believe that if the people of this country simply paid the taxes that are on the books, the government budget would be in a very significant surplus.

Not if they spent the money on education the way they should.

[brahmburgers]

I believe that if the people of this country simply paid the taxes that are on the books, the government budget would be in a very significant surplus. Funny how the Democrats of Thailand are closer to the Republicans of the US. Of course, you couldn't be named the Republicans in Thailand.

Trouble is, there are places where there are no "taxes on the books" ....to use your lingua. Glaring example: great swaths of Thailand's properties are essentially 'off the books' and not taxed. The rich know this, of course, and they commandeer most of those parcels, large and small, and pay no taxes for that. Every time there's a mention of that in the halls of power in Bkk, it's voted down. No surprise, as why would rich people vote to increase their own taxes?

Here are some other ways which might halt the poor from becoming increasingly poorer:

>>> encourage the use of 2nd hand - clothes and other items. I had many letters published in the major Eng-lang Bkk newspapers about how children and their families shouldn't have to pay thousands of baht each year for brand new books, clothes, shoes, backpacks for school. My letters may have had a slight impact, as there is some relatively new legislation giving a bit of relief to poor families in that regard.

>>> Thais avoid 2nd hand for various reasons. One is superstition, thinking the previous persons 'vibes' stay are with the items. Another is prestige factor (same reason why rich Thais build fancy mansions on smog-riven noisy highways - appearance is more important than substance or practicality). I'd like to see bunches of thrift stores everywhere in Thailand. Same for garage sales and yard sales. Currently, those things are considered bad taste, but attitudes can change. Similarly, I'd like to see classified ads in newspapers and notices on bulletin boards - for 2nd hand things for sale - and services at bargain rates.

A big reason why Thailand's poor will get poorer is the merchants' successful campaign that "everyone must buy everything retail." or worded differently, "it's low class to buy anything second hand."

>>> The poorest Thais (and hill tribers) are also brainwashed in to buying their motorbikes on time. So a new motorbike which cost Bt.34,000, will wind up costing Bt.60,000 if bought with payments and interest. Just as sad, is that those same dirt poor people should be content to get an ok quality 2nd hand vehicle for Bt.9,000 cash - but for two reasons, they won't: #1. they'll say they can't afford the Bt.9,000 (which is true, because they can't save money, particularly via $5/day and a family of six), and #2. they'd rather have the shiny new Honda that's advertised on TV.

>>> Thai employers are brutally tightwad. They pay peanuts and don't always pay as promised.

[Spee]

This professor has laid out the choice for Thailand. His remarks about how the upper class can save itself with income redistriburtion are encouraging, for without it civil unrest is inevitable and stability leading to growth of wealth in the kingdom is impossible.

If history has taught us one thing it's that the rich and powerful need some encouragement to let go and participate in redistribution. Keep reminding them of the other 'options'.

You and some other posters are treading upon some very dangerous and sacred ground.

First, not specific to your post, but it is a common misconception that wealth is a zero sum game. That is, the rich become rich at the expense of the poor, and as the rich become richer, the poor become poorer. Nothing could be further from the truth. New wealth is created all the time all over the world. The people who invest and take risks to create that new wealth are entitled to their just rewards, the profits from their labor, investment and risk. But the workers also benefit hugely, because there are new opportunities for income, growth and accummulation of personal property.

Second, nothing is worse in the world than income redistribution theory. To take from some to give to others is a flawed and foolhardy policy that can be applied only through the force of government. Look at Zimbabwe. Mugabe redistributed all the wealth from landowners and investors to the government, and what is the result. The entire country is a walking, talking, dying disaster area.

The great American economist, Dr. Walter E. Williams, discusses income redistribution in a short, concise, and accurate analogy here:

There is nothing more sacred to the individual than his or her property. I don't care if that property is a glorious mansion that one uses for vacation once a year, or a samlor that is the sole source of income for a driver and his family. The civilized world believes that one's right to acquire and retain property is among the most valued of all inalienable rights. Property also includes ones body and the wages that one is able to earn through their body, whether through physical labor, mental labor, or both.

Look at anywhere in the world where there are rampant economic problems and rampant poverty. You will find government infringement upon the individual's right to property at the core of these problems, whether from hard tyranny or soft tyranny. It's hardly unusual that the US and UK and the European Union are lumped into this category today, because in these places the governments take about half of most people's property (through wage and other forms of taxation) and redistribute it to other people.

Look at anywhere in the world where there is massive economic growth and you will find drastic increases in the standard of living and personal wealth, the ability of the individual to acquire and retain property. Two examples in today's world are China and India. There are still massive problems within these countries, but the growth of private individual wealth and property are not among them.

There is no reason in the world why Thailand should not be in the same situation. With an abundance of natural resources, a massive amount of skilled and unskilled labor available for reasonable cost, and key transportation infrastructures, the only thing holding Thailand back from massive economic growth is corruption and crony capitalism. It should be unsurprising that these symptoms are common throughout the world where there are stagnant economies. The US has the exact same problems, only on a much larger scale.

[Thai at Heart]

Seems this problem is typical all over Asia...especially in China....

China's ruling Communist Party is meeting in Beijing to draw up its next five-year plan for the economy.

The agenda is secret but analysts say that instead of seeking a high rate of economic growth, China's leaders want to close the gap between rich and poor and between coastal and inland areas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11548789

But the difference is China has an efficient government ...

The curious contradiction of the Chinese Communist party, is that despite being dictatorial and all the other things that people criticise it for, it has to give the people what they want. The only justification the Communist party has to its people is to say, "See our system works best", and so far it is doing OK. It is the one size fits all, Conservative, Labour, Democrat and Republican party that changes its colours as per requirement.

The Chinese people want wealth and better society, so that is what the government endeavours to do. Wait for the day that it doesn't and change will come. Until then, the people of China are largely happy to put up and shut up, and Beijing has to break its balls to deliver.

You have to be kidding. Ever been to Western China? They would love to be independent again. Like Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. The people there are really poor and the rich are doing land grabs all over the place. Read the news and you will see (at least Western news as the news in China is totally censored). The communist leaders are totally concerned about the masses revolting...it happened not too long ago and that is how they got into power....

Indeed have conducted business in most parts of China including Xinjiang for over a decade. As I said, if the central government doesn't give the people what it wants they will eventually revolt. It plans to give them prosperity and a better society, but draws the line at any mention of independence.

Saying however, that certain provinces would "love" to go independent is a bit of a stretch. Xinjiang is only 20mn people in an enormous land mass. More than half the population is now Han Chinese, so they don't want independence. Yunnan for example has done a deal with Beiing to retain more of its taxes within the province and this gives it a little bit of control about how it spends its money. Balancing keeping the provinces happy against achieving the central planning goals is the balance that Beijing must meet.

There is a massive structure still in place to monitor the people and local insurrection, but it does happen, often related to local corruption during land grabs, low farmer prices or unpaid wages in state companies. The people are slowly becoming a little bolder, but the idea of China without the Communist party at the wheel scares many people in the general population too.

Why does China make such a big show about executing corrupt officials? Because it shows they are doing something for the people. Does it go some way to eradicating corruption? A little. I would hazard that what stops someone in China getting involved in corruption is a strong belief in the Communist system, not some strong moral belief (which in the West usually comes from religious morality). Corruption is endemic throughout the system in China, pure and simple. .

There is still an element of brain washing in the young of the country, and they have settled themselves to believe that "to be rich is glorious", because the wounds of what happened to many of their parents or grand parents at the hands of the Communist party are still very fresh. Most have settled themselves to get richer because they don't know how or don't have any realistic mechanism to get rid of the Communist party. This in itself brings many societal problems because there is little or no care for the fellow man in China (that is the governments job) and China will undergo massive societal changes in the next 20 years when the first generations of the "one child" are sitting alone at home in their apartments with no one around to help or tend for them.

Yes the government are extremely worried about the people rising up, so they are vigorously pursuing increasing wealth and creating a better society. However, they have the system in place to quell any uprising very quickly and will stick two fingers up to the world if they have to use it. China won't be allowed to have a democracy in the western sense because it will immediately put the Communist party out of business

The question then is, are they doing this because they are the all loving, all caring Communist Party of China, or because they don't want to be out of a job? I would say the answer is 30:70.

[caughtintheact]

Well said, Spee. The best way to redistribute wealth is to go out shopping. Those who advocate government coerced wealth redistribution are just asking for a free pass to becoming slaves of the state. Looking back at Thailand 40 years there were practically no universities, and now there are many, booming and bustling with students. There were hardly any TV sets in the country, communications were pretty poor. Things have improved a lot. What government coerced wealth redistribution really does is make everyone equally poor, except the rich elite who run the show. If the Thai want to remain free, they will eschew any thought of government-coerced wealth redistribution.

[craigt3365]

Indeed have conducted business in most parts of China including Xinjiang for over a decade. As I said, if the central government doesn't give the people what it wants they will eventually revolt. It plans to give them prosperity and a better society, but draws the line at any mention of independence.

Saying however, that certain provinces would "love" to go independent is a bit of a stretch. Xinjiang is only 20mn people in an enormous land mass. More than half the population is now Han Chinese, so they don't want independence. Yunnan for example has done a deal with Beiing to retain more of its taxes within the province and this gives it a little bit of control about how it spends its money. Balancing keeping the provinces happy against achieving the central planning goals is the balance that Beijing must meet.

There is a massive structure still in place to monitor the people and local insurrection, but it does happen, often related to local corruption during land grabs, low farmer prices or unpaid wages in state companies. The people are slowly becoming a little bolder, but the idea of China without the Communist party at the wheel scares many people in the general population too.

Why does China make such a big show about executing corrupt officials? Because it shows they are doing something for the people. Does it go some way to eradicating corruption? A little. I would hazard that what stops someone in China getting involved in corruption is a strong belief in the Communist system, not some strong moral belief (which in the West usually comes from religious morality). Corruption is endemic throughout the system in China, pure and simple. .

There is still an element of brain washing in the young of the country, and they have settled themselves to believe that "to be rich is glorious", because the wounds of what happened to many of their parents or grand parents at the hands of the Communist party are still very fresh. Most have settled themselves to get richer because they don't know how or don't have any realistic mechanism to get rid of the Communist party. This in itself brings many societal problems because there is little or no care for the fellow man in China (that is the governments job) and China will undergo massive societal changes in the next 20 years when the first generations of the "one child" are sitting alone at home in their apartments with no one around to help or tend for them.

Yes the government are extremely worried about the people rising up, so they are vigorously pursuing increasing wealth and creating a better society. However, they have the system in place to quell any uprising very quickly and will stick two fingers up to the world if they have to use it. China won't be allowed to have a democracy in the western sense because it will immediately put the Communist party out of business

The question then is, are they doing this because they are the all loving, all caring Communist Party of China, or because they don't want to be out of a job? I would say the answer is 30:70.

Right on! But I think one of your comments hits home the most.

"Xinjiang is only 20mn people in an enormous land mass. More than half the population is now Han Chinese, so they don't want independence."

Same applies with Tibet. The indigenous people have been over run and marginalized by the Han Chinese. They are imports and are totally controlling these previously autonomous or semi-autonomous areas, and changing them to fit their needs. When you visit Tibet, the museum tells of the "liberation" of Tibet. Right...the Tibetan culture is quickly being wiped out...

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed have conducted business in most parts of China including Xinjiang for over a decade. As I said, if the central government doesn't give the people what it wants they will eventually revolt. It plans to give them prosperity and a better society, but draws the line at any mention of independence.

Saying however, that certain provinces would "love" to go independent is a bit of a stretch. Xinjiang is only 20mn people in an enormous land mass. More than half the population is now Han Chinese, so they don't want independence. Yunnan for example has done a deal with Beiing to retain more of its taxes within the province and this gives it a little bit of control about how it spends its money. Balancing keeping the provinces happy against achieving the central planning goals is the balance that Beijing must meet.

There is a massive structure still in place to monitor the people and local insurrection, but it does happen, often related to local corruption during land grabs, low farmer prices or unpaid wages in state companies. The people are slowly becoming a little bolder, but the idea of China without the Communist party at the wheel scares many people in the general population too.

Why does China make such a big show about executing corrupt officials? Because it shows they are doing something for the people. Does it go some way to eradicating corruption? A little. I would hazard that what stops someone in China getting involved in corruption is a strong belief in the Communist system, not some strong moral belief (which in the West usually comes from religious morality). Corruption is endemic throughout the system in China, pure and simple. .

There is still an element of brain washing in the young of the country, and they have settled themselves to believe that "to be rich is glorious", because the wounds of what happened to many of their parents or grand parents at the hands of the Communist party are still very fresh. Most have settled themselves to get richer because they don't know how or don't have any realistic mechanism to get rid of the Communist party. This in itself brings many societal problems because there is little or no care for the fellow man in China (that is the governments job) and China will undergo massive societal changes in the next 20 years when the first generations of the "one child" are sitting alone at home in their apartments with no one around to help or tend for them.

Yes the government are extremely worried about the people rising up, so they are vigorously pursuing increasing wealth and creating a better society. However, they have the system in place to quell any uprising very quickly and will stick two fingers up to the world if they have to use it. China won't be allowed to have a democracy in the western sense because it will immediately put the Communist party out of business

The question then is, are they doing this because they are the all loving, all caring Communist Party of China, or because they don't want to be out of a job? I would say the answer is 30:70.

Right on! But I think one of your comments hits home the most.

"Xinjiang is only 20mn people in an enormous land mass. More than half the population is now Han Chinese, so they don't want independence."

Same applies with Tibet. The indigenous people have been over run and marginalized by the Han Chinese. They are imports and are totally controlling these previously autonomous or semi-autonomous areas, and changing them to fit their needs. When you visit Tibet, the museum tells of the "liberation" of Tibet. Right...the Tibetan culture is quickly being wiped out...

That goes absolutely without saying. It may not be nice, but that is the policy that Beijing pursues. China has seen what happened to the USSR, and it will fight tooth and nail to prevent China splitting up.

I have to admit I haven't been to Tibet, but the idea that you can eradicate a culture is extreme to me. The Chinese might believe they can do it, having believed that they largely eradicated religion in China, however, my belief is that the harder you try to compel someone not to believe in something, the more they tend to do so. It took the Cultural revolution, massive human rights abuses and god knows how many million deaths to attempt to remove religion from Chinese society, but people still believe.

I think the Central government will have an ever increasingly hard job to quell the problems it has with its people, but that it will manage to do so for a very long time yet. They will cook up some idea that freedom of religion was actually written in Mao's book somewhere, but it was hidden in a secret chapter to be released 50 years after his death (For the good of the people of course). All it takes is for enough people to get bored with chasing money, and stand still for a minute and wonder about the world, and the cat will be out of the bag. Look at the response to falung gong.

The even more delicious irony, is that their war chest of USD which could be used to spread prosperity across the country is locked up preventing the yuan from appreciating too much.

One can only imagine how many schools, houses, and hospitals can be built with 2,648 Billion USD (Wikipedia)

[craigt3365]

Again, right on! Buffet and Bill Gates were recently in China trying to get their billionaires to donate more money to the needy. As you know, these guys are donating most of their money to charities. Chinese people don't do this. But if they did, like you say, it would be fantastic and would make huge strides towards income equality. Like the building of schools (like Oprah Winfrey did in Africa), hospitals, etc. Same applies here in Thailand. The rich just don't care about the poor.

We can only dream...

[asiawatcher]

A.." ... "Rich people evade taxes and most of the taxes collected come from salaried people. There is inequality in social and economic opportunities."

B.. "The government makes the situation worse by allowing some groups of people, especially the rich, to benefit from the unfair policies. … Inequity in the areas of economy, society and education has adverse impacts on the country's democratic development in the long run," he added."

A.. Taking from rich and giving to poor is age old. The salaried people are always bearing the brunt and not just in Thailand. THis is what the Magna Carter was all about where "No man will be taxed for his individual effort". Then the system of banks and governments in cahoots with the banks, did the opposite. Nothing short of complete destruction of government as we know it, and I don;t have any solution, will stop this theft which only adds to the inequality.

Banks lend to rich and poor cannot borrow. Even with good ideas and such entities as 'Development' Banks, only the rich can borrow. Perhaps with Angel Management rather than Angel Investment, this could assist the plight but the ongoing theft of wage earners funds to pay for the fat cats in Govt is the first place I would reform.

B.. Please layout the exact claims, what policies and then each could be addressed but I doubt the claims will ever see the light of day. This is a political speech without much substance other than a whinge.

[Spee]

Buffet and Bill Gates were recently in China trying to get their billionaires to donate more money to the needy.

One way of looking at this movement. To me, the first sentence of the third paragraph and the last sentence of the sixth paragraph, stand out among the others. The related stories section is also interesting, especially the discussion of Chinese wealth and how it seems to be similar to Thailand.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/17/bill-gates-warren-buffett-charity-opinion-columnists-john-tamny.html

[craigt3365]

Very interesting article. Taxes come into play for sure. I remember reading an article about Ted Turner donating something like $1B. Then I read that it actually saved him money to do so! Crazy...and so is this!!!!!!!!

"The three richest people possess more financial assets than the poorest 10% of the world's population, combined "

[chantorn]

Very interesting article. Taxes come into play for sure. I remember reading an article about Ted Turner donating something like $1B. Then I read that it actually saved him money to do so! Crazy...and so is this!!!!!!!!

"The three richest people possess more financial assets than the poorest 10% of the world's population, combined "

Wow, I wish I could be rich too.