Here We Go Again...

uncle paul · July 28, 2005

Perhaps it should go underground - it is illegal after all.
Pattaya brings the whole of South East Asia into disrepute. Thailand is an international laughing-stock for its blase attitude to the fate of its women.

They won't shut it because its a moneymaker - and in this way its a metaphor for failed Governance, where ethical decisions are dictated by economics.

The fact its out in the open doesn't bring any benefits to the girls, who still have few rights or welfare, ....nor to the people - since it isn't taxed.

....Having said all that i'm not a do-gooder and really don't mind if Pattaya continues in the same vein.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i hear the scene in the philipines is much bigger and cheaper, never, having been there i dont really know if this is true or not

britmaveric · July 28, 2005

Moog - what about BKK, Phuket, Chang Mai?

What about hair salons, department store clerks, factory workers, university students, government workers, hotel workers who dabble? Not just the uneducated country gal myth.

If you want to be serious prostitution is rampant throughout all SEA. (everywhere you go)

The_Moog · July 28, 2005

Yeah, hooking in Flipperland is skanky.

And thats the whole premis. Pattaya is sleazy, Angeles too.

So journalists can sell an article a year - 'o my gosh, its sleazy'

But don't go and say 'ooh no no its not, its a more complex paradigm'

'Say yes its sleazy and thats what we like about it and why we come'

khall64au · July 28, 2005

I agree with brit, very young, has limited experience of thailand let alone pattaya & her article is a direct outpouring of how she saw it. No one can deny the prossie & drugs & sex tourist exist & if she felt she made a difference then good for her but if she had gone to another place of the kingdom she would have seen it wasn't an isolated incident.
It's all very noble of her saying that her country people should try to make a difference but if she had been in LOS for longer than 6 weeks she might have realised that other problems areas should be addressed first & also in her own country.

It's an honest article in so much as she beleives what she's writing and being that young & helping out with the tsunami victims is something to be commended but the rest of it, well, it's an old topic & until the governemnt decide to seriously do something about it then these articles will continue to be written by idealistic young people. (or the tabloids )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But Boo, isn't it better to have idealistic young people here trying to help out where they think (and mostly are) doing some good - out in the tsunami areas and helping to educate young Thais rather than have young un-educated Thai people relying on sex tourists for a living?

She's a kid and as you say..."she believes what she's writing .... something to be commended" Absolutely! I think we need more of her school here.

Am just wondering how many resident TV posters actually go out of their way to do voluntary work? This girl came a long way at considerable expense to help those in need.

Even if she DID get her sums wrong

The_Moog · July 28, 2005

Pattaya should revel in its sleaziness.

Brit Maveric knows that I have always been a defender of PCN, in all its full unbowdlerized trashiness. I love it.

Instead of trying to gainsay and argue semantics re; this prissy little parvenue who wrote about it, Pattayistes should stick up two fingers, be honest and say....

'You're right, its decadent, salacious and thats why we're here'

meom · July 28, 2005

Wouldn't voluntary work jeopardise your visa status?

loong · July 28, 2005

But Boo, isn't it better to have idealistic young people here trying to help out where they think (and mostly are) doing some good - out in the tsunami areas and helping to educate young Thais rather than have young un-educated Thai people relying on sex tourists for a living?
She's a kid and as you say..."she believes what she's writing .... something to be commended" Absolutely! I think we need more of her school here.

Am just wondering how many resident TV posters actually go out of their way to do voluntary work? This girl came a long way at considerable expense to help those in need

I agree in principle with what you say.

But an educated young person should know to do proper research before posting an article in what appears to be an online newspaper.

She spent 6 weeks in Thailand, apparently running from one place to another and thinks that she knows everything.

...........helping to educate young Thais rather than have young un-educated Thai people relying on sex tourists for a living?

Not all Thai prostitutes are uneducated. Are you saying that foreigners can educate Thais so that they will not go into prostitution?

Prostitution has existed in Thailand from way before the farang tourists arrived in Thailand. But this young lady tries to give the impression that the sex industry is totally due to exploitation of poverty stricken young girls by Tourists.

I would be interested to know what the definition of 'poverty' is. Poor doesn't cover it really, very vague. I don't believe that Thai people have ever known poverty the same as in many places in africa. How many poor Thai people starve?

From what I have seen in the villages I have stayed, girls enter prostitution to enhance their standard of living or to pay off debts due to irresponsible borrowing. Normally, they are not forced into it.

Some choose to work locally with Thai clientele, while others will go for the richer pickings selling sex in places such as Pattaya. If the foreign sex tourists were not there, what would they do? I have known many farang pay out to set a girl up in business such as a food stall, beauty salon or hairdressers only for the girl to show absolutely no interest after the initial excitement and go back to prostitution.

I can't argue that Pattaya is not the sin capital of Thailand. It probably is. If there were no farang sex tourists, then many girls would not go to Pattaya in search of easy money. But mostly, these girls go there by choice. Nobody holds a gun to their head.

I am sure that back in the time of the Vietnam war, when the 1st GI's arrived for r & r in Pattaya, life was hard for the Thai people. It wasn't so great for many Europeans and Americans back then either. But did the GI's force the girls into prostitution? No, but their money was too much of a temptation. It has snowballed from there.

The article also seems to give the impression that all Thai prostitutes are underage, this is just added sensationism. It would not be so interesting if she had written the truth (in my opinion anyway) that the average age of the Pattaya prostitute is around 30 years.

I am sure that there are a number of underage girls, but they have not been obvious to me and certainly not touting outside the bars. Please let me make it clear, I am totally against underage girls being forced or coerced into prostitution and from what I have read on this forum, this is the way everyone here thinks.

Pattaya is fun city and there should be no place for paedophiles.

I believe that it is arrogant for a young girl to visit Thailand for 6 weeks and then conclude that she can tell the Thais how they should run their country.

I have found that most Thais have a healthy attitude to sex and don't consider prostitution such a bad thing.

Biased articles such as hers promote the wrong impression of Thailand as a whole and of course will encourage more of the type of tourists that she considers abhorrent.

$5 indeed!

Am just wondering how many resident TV posters actually go out of their way to do voluntary work? This girl came a long way at considerable expense to help those in need

What has this got to do with anything? Doing voluntary work does not give anyone the right to misinform.

uncle paul · July 28, 2005

But Boo, isn't it better to have idealistic young people here trying to help out where they think (and mostly are) doing some good - out in the tsunami areas and helping to educate young Thais rather than have young un-educated Thai people relying on sex tourists for a living?
She's a kid and as you say..."she believes what she's writing .... something to be commended" Absolutely! I think we need more of her school here.

Am just wondering how many resident TV posters actually go out of their way to do voluntary work? This girl came a long way at considerable expense to help those in need

I agree in principle with what you say.

But an educated young person should know to do proper research before posting an article in what appears to be an online newspaper.

She spent 6 weeks in Thailand, apparently running from one place to another and thinks that she knows everything.

...........helping to educate young Thais rather than have young un-educated Thai people relying on sex tourists for a living?

Not all Thai prostitutes are uneducated. Are you saying that foreigners can educate Thais so that they will not go into prostitution?

Prostitution has existed in Thailand from way before the farang tourists arrived in Thailand. But this young lady tries to give the impression that the sex industry is totally due to exploitation of poverty stricken young girls by Tourists.

I would be interested to know what the definition of 'poverty' is. Poor doesn't cover it really, very vague. I don't believe that Thai people have ever known poverty the same as in many places in africa. How many poor Thai people starve?

From what I have seen in the villages I have stayed, girls enter prostitution to enhance their standard of living or to pay off debts due to irresponsible borrowing. Normally, they are not forced into it.

Some choose to work locally with Thai clientele, while others will go for the richer pickings selling sex in places such as Pattaya. If the foreign sex tourists were not there, what would they do? I have known many farang pay out to set a girl up in business such as a food stall, beauty salon or hairdressers only for the girl to show absolutely no interest after the initial excitement and go back to prostitution.

I can't argue that Pattaya is not the sin capital of Thailand. It probably is. If there were no farang sex tourists, then many girls would not go to Pattaya in search of easy money. But mostly, these girls go there by choice. Nobody holds a gun to their head.

I am sure that back in the time of the Vietnam war, when the 1st GI's arrived for r & r in Pattaya, life was hard for the Thai people. It wasn't so great for many Europeans and Americans back then either. But did the GI's force the girls into prostitution? No, but their money was too much of a temptation. It has snowballed from there.

The article also seems to give the impression that all Thai prostitutes are underage, this is just added sensationism. It would not be so interesting if she had written the truth (in my opinion anyway) that the average age of the Pattaya prostitute is around 30 years.

I am sure that there are a number of underage girls, but they have not been obvious to me and certainly not touting outside the bars. Please let me make it clear, I am totally against underage girls being forced or coerced into prostitution and from what I have read on this forum, this is the way everyone here thinks.

Pattaya is fun city and there should be no place for paedophiles.

I believe that it is arrogant for a young girl to visit Thailand for 6 weeks and then conclude that she can tell the Thais how they should run their country.

I have found that most Thais have a healthy attitude to sex and don't consider prostitution such a bad thing.

Biased articles such as hers promote the wrong impression of Thailand as a whole and of course will encourage more of the type of tourists that she considers abhorrent.

$5 indeed!

Am just wondering how many resident TV posters actually go out of their way to do voluntary work? This girl came a long way at considerable expense to help those in need
What has this got to do with anything? Doing voluntary work does not give anyone the right to misinform.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

do you suspect her underage comments were something to do with many thai women looking like teenagers to the farang eye? if you ask a bar girl to tell yuo she is 12 she will tell you she is 12

meom · July 28, 2005

I think the average BG in Pattaya will kick your ass if you ask her she's 12.

Merlin · July 28, 2005

I agree in principle with what you say.
But an educated young person should know to do proper research before posting an article in what appears to be an online newspaper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's no "online newspaper". It's "The Sydney Morning Herald, Australia's most prestigious daily newspaper" - according to thier contact us page.

"The values set out in the Herald's first editorial, have guided the paper for more than 170 years. Our most valuable asset is our integrity, and it is this that the code is designed to protect."

bwah hah hah

zxray · July 28, 2005

I wish Amanda luck in saving thr world, while she is a teen, and still knows everything. Enthusiasum of youth, gotta love em they are the future.

Just wish she had mentioned where I might find those $5 girls

Ray

Merlin · July 28, 2005

ok...

here goes my comments on the original article.

Original as in: work of fiction

Most of it is about a realistic as Harry Potter.

Australia should be helping to clean up the devastating sex trade it is driving, says Amanda Fairweather.

Hello?

Australia is driving?

How many Australian brothel owners did she meet? Or even bar owners? Or Australian owners of any kind of entertainment related business at all? How many Australian police officers are in Thailand getting "tea money"? How many Australians does she think are running around in Issan or even Buri Ram, not to mention in any neighboring countries, "recruiting young girls as sex slaves". As if such a thing would actually happen - even once, never mind "driving the sex trade" If she could give the name of even one Australian involved in any position of power in the "sex trade" I would be surprised.

And,

Devastating?

I don't think so - but I'll have more to say on that later...

...and helped to stem the burgeoning sex trade in Pattaya.

burgeoning?

Has she spoken to ANY bar owners or business people in Pattaya?

Has she never heard of SARS, bird flu, or even the Tsunami?

Does she not know that business of all kinds has been down for the last couple of years?

We, with the Germans, comprise the majority of the tourists there.

Exactly how does she come to this conclusion?

She never noticed all the poms - who alone would outnumber the Aussies here 3 to 1? What about all the others - Dutch, French, Russian Italian etc? How many white men did she talk to, to find out where they are from? Again, if she could quote even one bit of evidence that Aussies and Germans "comprise the majority" I'd be amazed. I take it she never even noticed the hundreds of busloads of Koreans, Chinese and Japanese tourists choking the streets every day? The numbers of tourists brought in by EVEN ONE of those tour group companies in one month would dwarf the total number of Australian tourists in a whole year.

Just pure fiction.

So what does the city have to offer? Sex, basically.

I think the TAT would disagree, as would most people. From the TAT's website: "Pattaya is a paradise for everyone, as it has a variety of attractions suitable for all types of visitors." She never noticed the elephants? Or the beaches? Or any of the go-cart tracks, or shops, or gyms, or spas, or any of the water sport vendors like diving, paragliding etc? She never noticed any musicians? There's probably more musicians playing live every night between Soi 8 and Walking Street than there is in all of Melbourne, where she's from...

Pattaya is the prostitution capital of the world.

This is the bit that had me laughing out loud.

She's never been to Angeles City? Or Amsterdam, or Rio, or Indonesia or China or even New York or London? The ENTIRE population of Pattaya is somewhere around 250,000 IIRC - and only a small percentage of that number is involved in prostitution. Less than 10%, IMHO. What figures does she have to back up such a ridiculous claim?

Men, women, girls and boys. Whatever you like, in whatever combination. No questions asked.

Now I'm beginning to think she's never even set foot in a bar in Thailand at all. "Where you from?" "How long you stay?" "What you do in your from?" "You pay bar now?" The questions never stop!

Ok, I'm being a bit flippant now...

The sex workers generally fall into the trade out of desperate circumstances, fuelled by poverty and exploitation. Some are sold into the trade. Some choose to start with high hopes of earning a lot of cash and then leaving, but instead get hooked on drugs and debt.

Generally?

Mostly, I'd say they do it because they're lazy. They choose to come here because they see it as an easier life compared to sweating in a rice field all day back home. The vast majority of them choose to come here - they're not "sold into the trade". Those that are, are generally controlled by the Chinese Triads and end up servicing Thai men - or other Asian nationalities on package tours - and would not be seen in the farang oriented places like Pattaya. In any case, again if she could show ANY evidence of Australian involvement in "selling girls into the trade" I'd be amazed. If they get involved in drugs, again it's their choice. She's never seen a drug addict in Melbourne? Maybe she should get out of her girls school and take a walk down town before wandering around the world jumping to conclusions and making stuff up.

The bar girls (so called because they sit outside bars, or brothels,

Bars are not brothels.

Again, I begin to wonder if she ever foot inside one. Can anyone reading this imagine having sex in a beer bar? Where's the privacy, for a start? Even in the gogos and places where there may be rooms upstairs, those rooms are run [and have to be paid for] separately. This is not Australia.

And this brings us neatly into the topic of money:

waiting for mainly Western men to come in and have sex for about $US5

200baht - for sex?

This quite clearly shows she has got no clue at all.

Even in the shabbiest most run down beer bar in some back soi the barfine usually starts at 300 baht. And that's the BARFINE - not what you would have to pay the girl for sex. In fact, if you tried to get sex just for the barfine that would be a good way to get bashed and then locked up - and then deported... Most of the girls working Beach Road and Walking Street [where I assume she glanced at before making up this article] would expect a MINIMUM of 500 baht short time or 1000 baht all night. And it goes up from there - some "superstars" working in gogos will try hitting you up for ten times that amount. Any less, and you're in the realm of some past it old hag with stretch marks and a hard attitude from ten plus years in the game.

Which further brings us neatly into the topic of age:

almost all are much younger than they say. One girl told my friends she was 18. Only on our third encounter did she admit she was under-age.

"almost all"?

What is she writing - comedy?

Did she ever set foot inside Marilyns [upstairs, at the end of Beach Road near Walking Street entrance]? If there's EVEN ONE dancer in there under 30, well, again, I'd be amazed. Has she never heard of the almost weekly police raids on bars and discos and nightclubs looking for underage patrons? Just how many girls did she ask about their age? [and btw how much Thai does she speak, anyway?] What about all the others - how did she determine their age? Guess? Make it up? Like the rest of the article?

they can go on to set up their own businesses (hairdressing salons, for example)

Oh great - just what Pattaya needs: more hairdressers. Just what was she looking at while she was "stemming the burgeoning trade"? She never noticed the hundred or so hairdresser and barbers down the sois off Walking Street? She never once took a songtaew down Soi Buakhao? Oh yes, let's save the world - by cutting hair!!!

The centre is in need of another $US1.5 million to build a training super centre.

Now we begin to see a glimmer of what might just possibly be her agenda here: money. "in need of"? Who's decided that? "another"??? Where did the first 1.5mil go? How many hairdressers did Thailand get for that money? And this is better for Thailand - errr, how? I must have missed that bit.

many prostitutes choose not to take advantage of such assistance

At last - she got something right!!!

Why? It's their choice - if they want to work 10 hours a day for a month for 4 or 5 thousand baht at Big C or Tesco [or any of those thousands of hairdressing salons...] when they could get that in one weekend in Pattaya [or Phuket, or Bangkok, or any number of places...] well, THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.

AIDS is rampant

oh please.

She's never heard of Africa? Or India?

I'm not even going to bother going further on this bit...

Or they are raised in the city, bored and restless,

Oh really? The city is more boring than back home upcountry? I don't even have to ask - I know she has never stayed in a little country town in Issan - or anywhere else in Thailand probably. I was in Yasothon last week, and at 11PM you could have fired a cannon down the main street and not hit anyone. No bars or nightclubs open, not a neon light to be seen. Even the video rental place closed at 9:30. If you know ANYONE who is more bored in a city environment where you can listen to jazz, pop, hip hop, see shows, do activities of all kinds - compared to the country where I suppose you could sit up at night and listen to the frogs, well, yet again, I'd be surprised. But I guess that's no more ridiculous than the rest of the article.

As an Australian, I am disgusted our citizens are a part of the majority of tourists in Pattaya.

Again with the majority crap. What majority?

But I've addressed that above, I couldn't be bother rehashing it again here.

(Australia) is responsible for sponsoring many of the socio-economic problems in the Pattaya region.

Oh yes these poor girls have so many money problems.

Right...

Did she not notice how they all have the latest mobile phones, with the built in cameras and GPRS and the latest ringtones? All those shiny new motorbikes that line the streets with the automatic transmission and the electric starters - where does she think they come from? Never noticed how they almost always have at least one piece of gold on them - and probably 2 or 3 more at home? How they can always come up with a few thousand baht for an impromptu celebration for a sister's birthday, or someone leaving, or coming back from wherever?

Again, it's CHOICE.

They choose what to do, what to do with their money - and I guess Amanda chooses what to see and what to write...

Amanda Fairweather graduated from Mac.Robertson Girls' High School in Melbourne last year

I wonder if in school any of her teachers mentioned the difference between fact and fiction...

has deferred a place for biomedical science at the University of Newcastle

well at least she's not going to be a journalist.

khall64au · July 28, 2005

ok...

here goes my comments on the original article.

Original as in: work of fiction

Most of it is about a realistic as Harry Potter.

Australia should be helping to clean up the devastating sex trade it is driving, says Amanda Fairweather.

Hello?

Australia is driving?

How many Australian brothel owners did she meet? Or even bar owners? Or Australian owners of any kind of entertainment related business at all? How many Australian police officers are in Thailand getting "tea money"? How many Australians does she think are running around in Issan or even Buri Ram, not to mention in any neighboring countries, "recruiting young girls as sex slaves". As if such a thing would actually happen - even once, never mind "driving the sex trade" If she could give the name of even one Australian involved in any position of power in the "sex trade" I would be surprised.

And,

Devastating?

I don't think so - but I'll have more to say on that later...

...and helped to stem the burgeoning sex trade in Pattaya.

burgeoning?

Has she spoken to ANY bar owners or business people in Pattaya?

Has she never heard of SARS, bird flu, or even the Tsunami?

Does she not know that business of all kinds has been down for the last couple of years?

We, with the Germans, comprise the majority of the tourists there.

Exactly how does she come to this conclusion?

She never noticed all the poms - who alone would outnumber the Aussies here 3 to 1? What about all the others - Dutch, French, Russian Italian etc? How many white men did she talk to, to find out where they are from? Again, if she could quote even one bit of evidence that Aussies and Germans "comprise the majority" I'd be amazed. I take it she never even noticed the hundreds of busloads of Koreans, Chinese and Japanese tourists choking the streets every day? The numbers of tourists brought in by EVEN ONE of those tour group companies in one month would dwarf the total number of Australian tourists in a whole year.

Just pure fiction.

So what does the city have to offer? Sex, basically.

I think the TAT would disagree, as would most people. From the TAT's website: "Pattaya is a paradise for everyone, as it has a variety of attractions suitable for all types of visitors." She never noticed the elephants? Or the beaches? Or any of the go-cart tracks, or shops, or gyms, or spas, or any of the water sport vendors like diving, paragliding etc? She never noticed any musicians? There's probably more musicians playing live every night between Soi 8 and Walking Street than there is in all of Melbourne, where she's from...

Pattaya is the prostitution capital of the world.

This is the bit that had me laughing out loud.

She's never been to Angeles City? Or Amsterdam, or Rio, or Indonesia or China or even New York or London? The ENTIRE population of Pattaya is somewhere around 250,000 IIRC - and only a small percentage of that number is involved in prostitution. Less than 10%, IMHO. What figures does she have to back up such a ridiculous claim?

Men, women, girls and boys. Whatever you like, in whatever combination. No questions asked.

Now I'm beginning to think she's never even set foot in a bar in Thailand at all. "Where you from?" "How long you stay?" "What you do in your from?" "You pay bar now?" The questions never stop!

Ok, I'm being a bit flippant now...

The sex workers generally fall into the trade out of desperate circumstances, fuelled by poverty and exploitation. Some are sold into the trade. Some choose to start with high hopes of earning a lot of cash and then leaving, but instead get hooked on drugs and debt.

Generally?

Mostly, I'd say they do it because they're lazy. They choose to come here because they see it as an easier life compared to sweating in a rice field all day back home. The vast majority of them choose to come here - they're not "sold into the trade". Those that are, are generally controlled by the Chinese Triads and end up servicing Thai men - or other Asian nationalities on package tours - and would not be seen in the farang oriented places like Pattaya. In any case, again if she could show ANY evidence of Australian involvement in "selling girls into the trade" I'd be amazed. If they get involved in drugs, again it's their choice. She's never seen a drug addict in Melbourne? Maybe she should get out of her girls school and take a walk down town before wandering around the world jumping to conclusions and making stuff up.

The bar girls (so called because they sit outside bars, or brothels,

Bars are not brothels.

Again, I begin to wonder if she ever foot inside one. Can anyone reading this imagine having sex in a beer bar? Where's the privacy, for a start? Even in the gogos and places where there may be rooms upstairs, those rooms are run [and have to be paid for] separately. This is not Australia.

And this brings us neatly into the topic of money:

waiting for mainly Western men to come in and have sex for about $US5

200baht - for sex?

This quite clearly shows she has got no clue at all.

Even in the shabbiest most run down beer bar in some back soi the barfine usually starts at 300 baht. And that's the BARFINE - not what you would have to pay the girl for sex. In fact, if you tried to get sex just for the barfine that would be a good way to get bashed and then locked up - and then deported... Most of the girls working Beach Road and Walking Street [where I assume she glanced at before making up this article] would expect a MINIMUM of 500 baht short time or 1000 baht all night. And it goes up from there - some "superstars" working in gogos will try hitting you up for ten times that amount. Any less, and you're in the realm of some past it old hag with stretch marks and a hard attitude from ten plus years in the game.

Which further brings us neatly into the topic of age:

almost all are much younger than they say. One girl told my friends she was 18. Only on our third encounter did she admit she was under-age.

"almost all"?

What is she writing - comedy?

Did she ever set foot inside Marilyns [upstairs, at the end of Beach Road near Walking Street entrance]? If there's EVEN ONE dancer in there under 30, well, again, I'd be amazed. Has she never heard of the almost weekly police raids on bars and discos and nightclubs looking for underage patrons? Just how many girls did she ask about their age? [and btw how much Thai does she speak, anyway?] What about all the others - how did she determine their age? Guess? Make it up? Like the rest of the article?

they can go on to set up their own businesses (hairdressing salons, for example)

Oh great - just what Pattaya needs: more hairdressers. Just what was she looking at while she was "stemming the burgeoning trade"? She never noticed the hundred or so hairdresser and barbers down the sois off Walking Street? She never once took a songtaew down Soi Buakhao? Oh yes, let's save the world - by cutting hair!!!

The centre is in need of another $US1.5 million to build a training super centre.

Now we begin to see a glimmer of what might just possibly be her agenda here: money. "in need of"? Who's decided that? "another"??? Where did the first 1.5mil go? How many hairdressers did Thailand get for that money? And this is better for Thailand - errr, how? I must have missed that bit.

many prostitutes choose not to take advantage of such assistance

At last - she got something right!!!

Why? It's their choice - if they want to work 10 hours a day for a month for 4 or 5 thousand baht at Big C or Tesco [or any of those thousands of hairdressing salons...] when they could get that in one weekend in Pattaya [or Phuket, or Bangkok, or any number of places...] well, THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.

AIDS is rampant

oh please.

She's never heard of Africa? Or India?

I'm not even going to bother going further on this bit...

Or they are raised in the city, bored and restless,

Oh really? The city is more boring than back home upcountry? I don't even have to ask - I know she has never stayed in a little country town in Issan - or anywhere else in Thailand probably. I was in Yasothon last week, and at 11PM you could have fired a cannon down the main street and not hit anyone. No bars or nightclubs open, not a neon light to be seen. Even the video rental place closed at 9:30. If you know ANYONE who is more bored in a city environment where you can listen to jazz, pop, hip hop, see shows, do activities of all kinds - compared to the country where I suppose you could sit up at night and listen to the frogs, well, yet again, I'd be surprised. But I guess that's no more ridiculous than the rest of the article.

As an Australian, I am disgusted our citizens are a part of the majority of tourists in Pattaya.

Again with the majority crap. What majority?

But I've addressed that above, I couldn't be bother rehashing it again here.

(Australia) is responsible for sponsoring many of the socio-economic problems in the Pattaya region.

Oh yes these poor girls have so many money problems.

Right...

Did she not notice how they all have the latest mobile phones, with the built in cameras and GPRS and the latest ringtones? All those shiny new motorbikes that line the streets with the automatic transmission and the electric starters - where does she think they come from? Never noticed how they almost always have at least one piece of gold on them - and probably 2 or 3 more at home? How they can always come up with a few thousand baht for an impromptu celebration for a sister's birthday, or someone leaving, or coming back from wherever?

Again, it's CHOICE.

They choose what to do, what to do with their money - and I guess Amanda chooses what to see and what to write...

Amanda Fairweather graduated from Mac.Robertson Girls' High School in Melbourne last year

And as a parting note, I wonder if in school any of her teachers mentioned the difference between fact and fiction...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Merlin,

Since you seem to know the Pattaya sex scene so well- what would you tell this young, western high-school graduate - "out-to-save the-world"- to her face... as a liberally thinking older genteman?

OxfordWill · July 28, 2005

The point is, surely, that the paper just shouldn't have published it. Oh, but they didnt - its been submitted as an opinion article in the relevant section of the site. I doubt that it was ever put to press?

britmaveric · July 28, 2005

Merlin - nice job. I'm too lazy to go point by point!

Merlin,
Since you seem to know the Pattaya sex scene so well- what would you tell this young, western high-school graduate - "out-to-save the-world"- to her face... as a liberally thinking older genteman?

I'd tell her: Obvious you are full of shi*e!!!!

Merlin · July 28, 2005

Merlin,
Since you seem to know the Pattaya sex scene so well- what would you tell this young, western high-school graduate - "out-to-save the-world"- to her face... as a liberally thinking older genteman?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd tell her that all of Australia thinks she owes us an apology.

As if we are responsible for all that's wrong with Pattaya - like I said, ridiculous.

And I bet the TAT will have a bit to say, as well.

Further, I'd tell her if she really wants to get involved in saving ACTUAL CHILDREN from prostitution, then to go to somewhere like Cambodia - and to be very careful about it and watch her back. Once she gets up the nose of the triads or various other mafia groups she could easily just "disappear"...

Merlin · July 28, 2005

The point is, surely, that the paper just shouldn't have published it. Oh, but they didnt - its been submitted as an opinion article in the relevant section of the site. I doubt that it was ever put to press?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if only.

The content for the online edition is "drawn from the Sydney Morning Herald print edition" according to the contact page.

I did a quick google to find out about the readership - couldn't see an actual figure for the daily edition other than it's risen 9.6% this year. They claim 1.3 million readers for the weekend edition...

kayo · July 29, 2005

....
She's a kid and as you say..."she believes what she's writing .... something to be commended" Absolutely! I think we need more of her school here.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can´t disagree with that. The first part of the above. Although whether we need more of her school (t)here, I´m not sure. Reason being, precisely because she is a kid. It´s all lovely to be so idealistic, but the opinions expressed by miss fairweather are not so disimilar to the opinions of many an untravelled person back home... "snigger snigger,.... oh so you went to thailand" by men, and "ugh disgust, ... you went to thailand" by the women... Oh please untravellers of home regions, allow me to be the epitomy of your narrow minded, cliché generalisations... (I can say I disappointed both examples in nearly four years living in three different parts of thailand, and, as with many many other expats, learnt far more from spending quality time with all demographics of the LOS population in conversation).

I for one wouldn´t enjoy living in a town full of unexperienced idealists, and imagine gentle challenges to my being, were I living in a town with mature experienced idealists. (hmm... I live in hippytenango, c-a).

ok...
here goes my comments on the original article.

Men, women, girls and boys. Whatever you like, in whatever combination. No questions asked.

Now I'm beginning to think she's never even set foot in a bar in Thailand at all. "Where you from?" "How long you stay?" "What you do in your from?" "You pay bar now?" The questions never stop!

Ok, I'm being a bit flippant now...

yeah but funny...

good points merlin, and thank you for having the patience to go through them in that manner.

I dismiss commenting directly ont he article, as it was, as mentioned in an earlier post, just the opinion of an individual. As such I´ll respect that.

Seems to me though, the editors just printed it to please the girls parents.

Maybe her father is on the board of the paper.

davethailand · July 29, 2005

Merlin - nice job. I'm too lazy to go point by point!
Merlin,
Since you seem to know the Pattaya sex scene so well- what would you tell this young, western high-school graduate - "out-to-save the-world"- to her face... as a liberally thinking older genteman?

I'd tell her: Obvious you are full of shi*e!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Followed by "don't spout this crap unless you've got all of your facts right and proof

After reading her stupid comments I'd like to give her a mouthful.

The_Moog · July 29, 2005

From the TAT's website: "Pattaya is a paradise for everyone, as it has a variety of attractions suitable for all types of visitors."

er.....but the TAT always says stuff like that.

This girl got her piece published Merlin. You can write a rebuttal and forward it for publishing. Newspapers don't get many people writing who are prepared to put their name forward supporting Pattaya, so you might well get published.

Your point-by-point nitpicking of her piece is of no merit and unreadably inarticulate. Its easy to be a critic, harder to start with a blank sheet of paper and write something.

kreon · July 29, 2005

What a load of <deleted>
"I helped stem the prostitution in pattaya"

I can't stand these so called bloody do gooders

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i concur, and she achieved all that in 6 1/2 weeks, maybe she come back to bangkok for another 6 1/2 weeks and help toxin to stem the traffic jams there

chuchok · July 29, 2005

Merlin - nice job. I'm too lazy to go point by point!
Merlin,
Since you seem to know the Pattaya sex scene so well- what would you tell this young, western high-school graduate - "out-to-save the-world"- to her face... as a liberally thinking older genteman?

I'd tell her: Obvious you are full of shi*e!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Followed by "don't spout this crap unless you've got all of your facts right and proof

After reading her stupid comments I'd like to give her a mouthful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fit looking lass is she?

Dragonman · July 29, 2005

From the TAT's website: "Pattaya is a paradise for everyone, as it has a variety of attractions suitable for all types of visitors."

er.....but the TAT always says stuff like that.

This girl got her piece published Merlin. You can write a rebuttal and forward it for publishing. Newspapers don't get many people writing who are prepared to put their name forward supporting Pattaya, so you might well get published.

Your point-by-point nitpicking of her piece is of no merit and unreadably inarticulate. Its easy to be a critic, harder to start with a blank sheet of paper and write something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think Merlin's post is point-by-point nitpicking, which infers unjustified criticism. I think it's a point-by-point tirade. We also all have our own opinions on what is unreadably inarticulate,but I don't expect a post to win a Pulitzer for literary excellence. Most posts are written as if we are speaking to someone, not writing an essay.!

In other words, I understood his post OK and quite agree.

Insight · July 29, 2005

Your point-by-point nitpicking of her piece is of no merit and unreadably inarticulate. Its easy to be a critic, harder to start with a blank sheet of paper and write something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, fiction can be difficult to author.

OxfordWill · July 29, 2005

There are some really nice parts to Pattaya, though, or at least some really nice parts just outside Pattaya. Wonder if she travelled much part walking st.

britmaveric · July 29, 2005

There are some really nice parts to Pattaya, though, or at least some really nice parts just outside Pattaya. Wonder if she travelled much part walking st.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently not....

Merlin · July 29, 2005

[...snip]
Your point-by-point nitpicking of her piece is of no merit and unreadably inarticulate. Its easy to be a critic, harder to start with a blank sheet of paper and write something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, but what would be the point?

Imagine if I was to hang around one room of her girl's school for a few days, then spout off some tripe about the whole place being nothing more than a haven for fat, self-opinionated, lesbian feminazis and then blame it all on the jews - because I happened to see one or two of them there...

"Oh yes, the jews are responsible for turning all these pure innocent girls into screaming lesbians - and they've made this school the world headquarters of perversion"

But then, that would be a load of crap, wouldn't it - and I would never even think of submitting it to a newspaper that supposedly prides itself on it's ethics...

Can you imagine the reaction?

Don't you think that a lot of people would quite properly be pointing out that just because there may happen to be one or two lesbians in a girls school, it's not the "capital of peversion"?

Don't you think the jews would be demanding an apology from me?

...

Much like I think Australians should be demanding an apology from her.

Darkling · July 29, 2005

$5 for a shag!
Anyone know where?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

soi 6

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When did the price go up?

opothai · July 31, 2005

if being in your late teens early twenties drinking for free getting paid to get laid i know plenty western lads who would apply for said position [hetrosexual only]

and would be upset about do gooders trying to close this down by clling this exploitation.

come to think of it there are a few girls in england that do this for fun

what's the big problem here

ray23 · July 31, 2005

if being in your late teens early twenties drinking for free getting paid to get laid i know plenty western lads who would apply for said position [hetrosexual only]
and would be upset about do gooders trying to close this down by clling this exploitation.

come to think of it there are a few girls in england that do this for fun

what's the big problem here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Western mind set applied to Asia won't work, never has and never will.

The truth is the Thais are biggest users of prostitution in this country and they have a heck of a long head start on any of this.

Here in Udon there are at least ten houses, frequented primarily by Thais. Now they are the real bad guys the girls are from Laos, so they must be spreading prostition in Loa.

You would be hard pressed to find any city in the world that does not have ladies working.

The fact that Pattyay provides a venue for them to prosper more in the trade, is hardly destroying the world, or the people involved, if they were not in Pattaya they would be somewhere else.

These people want the money that is the fastest route available to them. I see far les drug involvement with these girls then i have anywhere else, some don't even drink. This is a business. Some do use drugs but moer then likley they would have anyway.

These girls buy golf for show of prosperity, TVS and cars for the famalies. The find the golden ATM and thye might buy more. But what they don't do is provide a house for the family, most already have one. They don't provide food for the family, they would eat if the daughter worked bars or not.

These girls are pros and know exactly what they are doing when they decide to proceed in the field. It's not about sex slaves it's about greed.

There are many many families and girls who never get involved in the sex industry and they make it with the normal money available to Thais, not what the bar girls get. Thats just life, if every farrang in Thailand stopped using the services offered nothing would change they would just be working for less money.

My guess is she got had by the bar girls just like thier customers do. Never met better actresses anywhere.

But that is just my humble opinnion

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