Putting Thai Police Back In Line

[landofthefree]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

This is now Abhisit's problem and we haven't seen it improve under his leadership, I wonder why?

Because the majority of police are red supporters and reject any measures from the government meant to help them clean up their act and improve their image?

I don't know about the political support from police officers for the red shirts and I guess you don't either but what I do know is that

whoever is in power in Thai politics appears to be impotent on all major issues probably because too much money is at stake, that I am sure is not likely to change not now or in the forseeable future.

[way2muchcoffee]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

This is now Abhisit's problem and we haven't seen it improve under his leadership, I wonder why?

Because the majority of police are red supporters and reject any measures from the government meant to help them clean up their act and improve their image?

I don't know about the political support from police officers for the red shirts and I guess you don't either but what I do know is that

whoever is in power in Thai politics appears to be impotent on all major issues probably because too much money is at stake, that I am sure is not likely to change not now or in the forseeable future.

If this is your belief then why did you rhetorically ask why there has been little improvement under the Abhisit government?

[thomo]

Looks like some people here need a little history on the history of the Royal Thai Police.

The founding father of the current RTP. Phao Sriyanond

Phao was promoted to the position of director of the police in 1951, by which time he had become one of the country's all-powerful triumvirate. A client of the CIA, Phao received funds and hardware to build his personal fortune, as well as to turn the police into an alternative force to oppose his military rival, Sarit Thanarat.

Phao established an intimate circle of police officers, known generally as the "Knights of the Diamond Ring", which was notorious for its treatment of opponents of the government and the police generals - even resorting to assassination and murder. Their crimes were many:

* In March 1949, three MPs from Isaan and an associate, all one-time disciples of the exiled Pridi, were arrested on charges of treason. They were shot dead by their police escort while supposedly being transferred from one jail to another.

* On December 12, 1952, Tiang Sirikhanth - MP for Sakon Nakhon, a leading Seri Thai member and an opponent of the government - was arrested with four of his associates. They were murdered (allegedly by strangulation in a police station) and their bodies burned in a forest in Kanchanaburi Province.

* A successful newspaper publisher, Ari Liwara, refused to sell out to Phao and was killed in March 1953.

* In 1954 Phon Malithong, MP for Samut Sakhon who provided evidence of corruption against Phao in Parliament, was in found tied to a concrete pier in the Chao Phraya River, having first been strangled.

Phao was extremely wealthy. He demanded protection money from businessmen, rigged the gold exchange, and blackmailed corporations into giving him huge shareholdings. He also profited greatly from the opium trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phao_Sriyanond

Ben Kwarm Thai.

And people actually think Taksin brought corruption here.

Edited October 19, 2010 by thomo

[landofthefree]

[

This is now Abhisit's problem and we haven't seen it improve under his leadership, I wonder why?

Because the majority of police are red supporters and reject any measures from the government meant to help them clean up their act and improve their image?

I don't know about the political support from police officers for the red shirts and I guess you don't either but what I do know is that

whoever is in power in Thai politics appears to be impotent on all major issues probably because too much money is at stake, that I am sure is not likely to change not now or in the forseeable future.

If this is your belief then why did you rhetorically ask why there has been little improvement under the Abhisit government?

The point I was making is that the Abhisit supporters writing on Thai Visa sounded like he was the solution to the country's problems and of course he isn't its just the same old Thailand ,money, corruption and greed at the centre keeping it well and truly as a third world country or (speaking politically correctly) as a developing country both now and for the foreseeable future. Sorry if he has been a dissapointment to those that thought anything would change but the way it has worked out was all very predictable, wasn't it?

[way2muchcoffee]

The point I was making is that the Abhisit supporters writing on Thai Visa sounded like he was the solution to the country's problems and of course he isn't its just the same old Thailand ,money, corruption and greed at the centre keeping it well and truly as a third world country or (speaking politically correctly) as a developing country both now and for the foreseeable future. Sorry if he has been a dissapointment to those that thought anything would change but the way it has worked out was all very predictable, wasn't it?

The prime minister's office has never been cleaner. This cabinet has seen several ministers resign due to allegations of corruption prior to any court forcing them to. This is almost unheard of in Thailand's history.

So I'm not really sure what you are on about. Nobody expected Abhisit to be able to eradicate corruption in the Royal Thai Police or in the country in general.

Edited October 19, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[scorecard]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

What planet are you from you cant blame everything on Thaksin

DK

That,s whats so scary. Such ignorance from Thais that some really believe Thaksin invented corruption.

I guess it shows how gullible they are when exposed to Goverment propaganda and censorship of any criticism.

It seems they cannot think for themselves which is a shame and doesn't bode well for the future

Don't know where you got that from.

The suggestion that Thai people believe thaksin invented corruption is ridiculous and untrue.

All Thais are well aware that coruption has been very active for many decades, but many do believe that thaksin took it all to new levels, massive open coruption, intimidation of the judiciary, take-over of the Election Commission, massive open nepotism and lots more, and to the point where is was needed to somehow remove him.

And of course someone will reply "they could have voted him out".

[scorecard]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

I agree partly with this - it was endemic prior to Thaksin and he just became a catalyst in the process, but it is now very much out of control and other than putting a broom through the lot and introducing really (exceptionally) tough penalties for corruption, and paying a decent salary to police, I can't see any way it will improve. But of course the corruption is not just with police - it is rife throughout many businesses and politicians in Thailand. Short answer - I certainly don't have one but great to see this article air the issue as mostly this is suppressed by the media PR system.

but great to see this article air the issue as mostly this is suppressed by the media PR system.

You wrote: "..... but great to see this article air the issue as mostly this is suppressed by the media PR system."

Please share what you mean.

[scorecard]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

This is now Abhisit's problem and we haven't seen it improve under his leadership, I wonder why?

Because the majority of police are red supporters, have no interest in following or enforcing the law, and reject any institutional measures or honest police chiefs/leaders appointed by the government that would help them clean up their act and improve their image?

I agree with waytoomuchcoffee. And why are they red supporters?

Just one reason is that thaksin was a policeman, part of the police brotherhood, which dictates that a policeman or ex-policeman can do no wrong. Even if he murdered 10 children hes' still a brother and the police brotherhood 'rules' dictate that he's OK and must be supported by the brotherhood.

And given the strength of the brotherhood (and the promises tkaksin made to the brotherhood, which still stand) they are hoping 'payout' day will still happen.

On another angle, the brotherhood stuff is so strong that nobody in the police would dare buck the brotherhood 'system'.

Is thaksin using all of this to his advantage? Easy answer.

[scorecard]

The point I was making is that the Abhisit supporters writing on Thai Visa sounded like he was the solution to the country's problems and of course he isn't its just the same old Thailand ,money, corruption and greed at the centre keeping it well and truly as a third world country or (speaking politically correctly) as a developing country both now and for the foreseeable future. Sorry if he has been a dissapointment to those that thought anything would change but the way it has worked out was all very predictable, wasn't it?

The prime minister's office has never been cleaner. This cabinet has seen several ministers resign due to allegations of corruption prior to any court forcing them to. This is almost unheard of in Thailand's history.

So I'm not really sure what you are on about. Nobody expected Abhisit to be able to eradicate corruption in the Royal Thai Police or in the country in general.

Agree, and:

1. There is the distinct possibiliy that corruption will get far worse before it gets better because of the corrupt politicians, police, many other beaurocrats etc., who have paid their deposits (often hundred of millions of baht) to get into positions where they get easy access to the big money. They're not going to go away empty handed, they want a return on their massive investments, they have no morals and they don't care who knows it, they will ensure they get their big spoils before the oil runs out.

2. The force which could stop coruption is the public, if only Thais at large stood up and demanded action / named people / reported all evidence they see, etc., and on masse demanded that serious investigations take place, and on masse demanded answers to those investigations, and refused to accept 'whitewash' answers, and stopped accepting the 'transfer to an inactive post' response. The power of the people / the power of the middle classes which hasn't really yet happened in Thailand.

3. Abhisit works all day every day in a snakepit, surrounded by ruthless, immoral incapable people, including in his own party. As already mentioned he has taken some action but clearly more is needed. Given the terrorist activity etc., he ain't doing so bad, but he does need to pick up some speed on several fronts.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Agree, you can't blame everyting on thaksin, but he is responsible for taking corruption, cronyism, nepotism, control of the police and numerous other ministries (for the gain of a few), intimidation of the judiciary, the election commission, total lack of morals and ethics etc., to a whole new level. Just look at the number of his close relatives who were promoted by numerous levels, one family member jumped seven ranks in the military in one promotion.

One quick example: The BTS line to Bang Na was completed months ago and it's ready to start tomorrow. Why has it not opened? Easy answer, thaksin has not yet been paid his share of the spoils and he still has enough power (intimidation strength) to ensure he gets paid before it will be allowed to open.

Whilst police corruption is allegedly endemic in Thailand (and always has been, it would seem), I can't imagine that any police force in the world could go through a process where they or their colleagues could kill 2500-3000 innocents without trial, watch as the country shrugs, watch as not one police officer or politician be held accountable...and then come out of that process being a less corrupt / abusive force. Not a chance.

Police corruption and abuses of power might have existed pre-Thaksin; but it would be pretty hard to make an argument that the police force is better of for having been used to do the dirty work of a "human rights abuser of the worst kind" (HumanRightsWatch).

I don't know about the political support from police officers for the red shirts and I guess you don't either but what I do know is that whoever is in power in Thai politics appears to be impotent on all major issues probably because too much money is at stake, that I am sure is not likely to change not now or in the forseeable future.

You have no idea how dull you appear when you ask yourself questions over and over and then get the answers wrong over and over when you reply to yourself.

You may not know about the political support for Thaksin amongst the police ranks, but if you opened your eyes during the terrorist rioting this year, you'd likely have thought to yourself at some point: "Hmm why isn't the police tasked with clearing these criminals from the malls they've hijacked...rather than the Army?"

And the answer...? Ahhh.

The point I was making is that the Abhisit supporters writing on Thai Visa sounded like he was the solution to the country's problems and of course he isn't its just the same old Thailand ,money, corruption and greed at the centre keeping it well and truly as a third world country or (speaking politically correctly) as a developing country both now and for the foreseeable future. Sorry if he has been a dissapointment to those that thought anything would change but the way it has worked out was all very predictable, wasn't it?

Are you asking the question genuinely or embarrassing yourself with a fourth incorrect answer to your own question again? I'll assume you've embarrassed yourself enough for the day and genuinely want to know the answer, which is:

He's done a LOT, despite being placed in endless untenable situations by the enemies of Thailand and decency.

Run your beady eyes over this article; if for no other reason, to spare yourself future embarrassment?

http://www.bangkokpo...7/men-of-honour

When Mr Abhisit started his term in 2008, he galloped into office trumpeting his ''iron rule'': the actions of his administration were to be transparent and he would be vigilant in tackling corruption.

''Political accountability comes before the law,'' he said, which means ministers and members of parliament accused of corruption shall voluntarily step down even if they have yet to be found legally culpable. Political accountability before the law - it's a matter of honour.

The coalition government has been plagued by corruption scandals since its formation, but many of us might have forgotten that the prime minister stuck to his words.

Former public health minister Witthaya Kaewparadai of the Democrats and his deputy Manit Nopamornbodee of Bhumjaithai both resigned after allegations arose that they mismanaged 86 billion baht under the Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus package.

Former social development and human securities minister Witoon Nambutr, a Democrat, also resigned over his alleged involvement in sending rotten canned fish to flood victims in Phatthalung.

Former Bangkok governor Apirak Kosayodhin, also a Democrat, resigned once allegations arose that he received some 500 million baht in kickbacks from the procurement of firefighting equipment for Bangkok.

The law, of course, has dragged its feet in all these cases, but that's the nature of the law. The point is that Mr Abhisit has been true to his word; under his regime, political accountability comes before the law. Those men were accountable and resigned.

But those resignations took place at a time when politicians could afford to be accountable. Now we are in trying times when doing the honourable thing is the most difficult choice a politician can make.

These are the days of political turmoil. These are the days of red shirts taking Ratchaprasong hostage and burning parts of Bangkok and city halls upcountry to the ground. These are the days when protesters, innocent bystanders, journalists and security personnel die a violent death. These are the days when bombs can explode at any time. These are the days when MPs take part in ''midnight sales'' and change allegiances to anyone for the right price. These are the days when coalition bickering threatens to bring down the government.

These are the days when Transport Minister Sohpon Zarum (and others like him) is unburdened by pressure to do the honourable thing and resign over the alleged NGV bus scandal, among other alleged unsavoury deeds under his watch.

These are the days when the Bhumjaithai Party need not be concerned over allegations of cheating, corruption and mafia connections that led to ''men in black'' facing off at Suvarnabhumi airport's car park or the alleged irregularities in the 3.49 billion baht computer leasing scheme. Instead, Newin Chidchob just gets upset and threatens people.

These are the days when Mr Abhisit needs the Bhumjaithai party to hold on to power and ensure the delivery of Isan in the next general election.

Earlier this week, the prime minister was asked if he would reshuffle his cabinet, which meant would he squeeze out the scandal-prone Bhumjaithai? Mr Abhisit's answer was no, of course not - ''not at this time'' was the key phrase.

Perhaps, some would say, that which is honourable taking a back seat to political survival is not an act born out of cowardice, but of political shrewdness. Perhaps, some would say, the more Bhumjaithai shoots itself in the foot, the greater the prime minister's leverage.

Perhaps, some would say, it's just a matter of time. After all, on Thursday, the prime minister also said: ''Don't be too quick to judge, the movie isn't over yet.''

Clowns to the left of him, jokers to the right...here he is, stuck in the middle with you. Trying to help you. Don't be another idiot he has to fend off with one hand whilst he's protecting you with the other.

He's already juggling a few million of those....

[landofthefree]

Clowns to the left of him, jokers to the right...here he is, stuck in the middle with you. Trying to help you. Don't be another idiot he has to fend off with one hand whilst he's protecting you with the other.

He's already juggling a few million of those....

Isn't his party about to be disbanded for financial irregularities.?...Unless of course, they pull a magical trick out of the bag (very possible in a country known for moving in strange ways)Of course that includes Abhisit as well, sure he is a great guy shame he and his party could well be about to be shown as being as corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians. Thanks for the insults, I have never seen the need to insult posters but I guess some people resort to insults when they have obviously been proved to have been wrong. I am not pro any Thai political party but I know them for what they are mostly power hungry and corrupt.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

sure he is a great guy shame he and his party could well be about to be shown as being as corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians. Thanks for the insults, I have never seen the need to insult posters but I guess some people resort to insults when they have obviously been proved to have been wrong.

lol

I resort to insults because i) I believe in moderately intelligent discussion, and you do not - ergo, you are insulting me with your stupidity, and ii) I have been posting on forums for many, many years...and have never, not once, seen an invested idiot read a sensible argument and reverse their ridiculously flawed nonsensical 'opinion'.

------------

As corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians, you say?

The Democrats were supposed to spend the money on advertising boards at intersections but opted for smaller signs attached to poles for power cables, which the prosecution contends is a breach of election laws.

http://www.reuters.c...E69H1LQ20101018

Egad. The corruption is like nothing Thailand has ever seen! It's non-corruption. It's a ridiculous technicality - the money was not stolen, not diverted to terrorism, not funding bombing campaigns (like the PTP's baht)...it was used for smaller advertising signs than it was initially earmarked for. Nothing to do with Abhisit, nothing to do with corruption, it's a pure technicality being gleefully exploited by a filthy despicable and petty carcass of a twice-banned corrupt party.

Your stupidity is offensive to me. I'm very offended. So offended that I am liable to insult you in response; if you persist with the provocation and insults and idiocy which flow unhindered and swift, direct from your keyboard every time you post.

Edited October 19, 2010 by TheyCallmeScooter

[IAMSOBAD]

OK General,

Its been ONE full day of this sweeping Anti-Corruption plan.

How many dirty cops were jailed...fined or fired today?

Ohhh None! You couldnt find any?

Sort of like not finding fake bags at Patpong...fake jewelry in Bkk...pirated software at Pantip.

Maybe the bad cops are being warned by the goooood cops?

[jayjay0]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

I would say corrupt Thai policemen were around long before Thaksin was even born!

Oh; corruption starts at the top....the very top.....so first you have to rid yourself of corrupt government..........the impossible dream?

"Corruption is endemic in Thailand", so said the retiring British Ambassador 40 years ago! When the Mexican police chief was asked how long it would take to eradicate corruption in his force, he talked in terms of generations of policemen not years. I think a similar timescale will apply in Thailand. At least this new chap is making a start. Good luck to him.

Nice to hear some one give them credit for starting.

I notice that none of these so called intelligent people mention the fact that until they start to give decent wages it will be mighty tough to attract people to take the abuse they do for so little pay. I guess that would need more money and the only way they can get that is to increase tax's They are perfectly willing to sit back and point out the problems that need to be overcome from behind there key board but not pay any money to get it.

Yes we all know it will take years but it might go quicker if people were supportive.

[jayjay0]

Land of Scams (LOS) also known as Thailand is infamous for talk, talk,talk, talk, talk, but little if any action. Many people world wide are listening less and less to the on going rhetoric that has little credence/Truth. How long do these "story tellers" expect individuals to believe them?

I very much doubt that anyone 'world wide' has ever listened to the crap talked up here. And never will. What, for instance, has the present incumbent done about the rampant corruption here? If anything? I loathe Taksin, but he did thoroughly clamp down on any tea money at the local Ministry of Transport here on Phuket. Also threatened to sack the entire police force and start from scratch, but never actually did. What's Abhissit done? Sweet Sod All.

Interersting post. Negative about the present Government but throwing Kudos to Thaksin. Considering you have only been a member here for nine months you seem to have intimate knowlledge of events five to ten years ago.

[jayjay0]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

I agree partly with this - it was endemic prior to Thaksin and he just became a catalyst in the process, but it is now very much out of control and other than putting a broom through the lot and introducing really (exceptionally) tough penalties for corruption, and paying a decent salary to police, I can't see any way it will improve. But of course the corruption is not just with police - it is rife throughout many businesses and politicians in Thailand. Short answer - I certainly don't have one but great to see this article air the issue as mostly this is suppressed by the media PR system.

Just my opinion but have you noticed the quality of articles has gone up considerably. Just goes to show how bad the nation really is.

[jayjay0]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

This is now Abhisit's problem and we haven't seen it improve under his leadership, I wonder why?

cccould be he was too busy keeping it a free country. Now that he has secured it h can work on corruption.

Did you even read the article

[gpdjohn]

Reminds me of a song...

" To dream the impossible dream.."

[landofthefree]

sure he is a great guy shame he and his party could well be about to be shown as being as corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians. Thanks for the insults, I have never seen the need to insult posters but I guess some people resort to insults when they have obviously been proved to have been wrong.

lol

I resort to insults because i) I believe in moderately intelligent discussion, and you do not - ergo, you are insulting me with your stupidity, and ii) I have been posting on forums for many, many years...and have never, not once, seen an invested idiot read a sensible argument and reverse their ridiculously flawed nonsensical 'opinion'.

------------

As corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians, you say?

The Democrats were supposed to spend the money on advertising boards at intersections but opted for smaller signs attached to poles for power cables, which the prosecution contends is a breach of election laws.

http://www.reuters.c...E69H1LQ20101018

Egad. The corruption is like nothing Thailand has ever seen! It's non-corruption. It's a ridiculous technicality - the money was not stolen, not diverted to terrorism, not funding bombing campaigns (like the PTP's baht)...it was used for smaller advertising signs than it was initially earmarked for. Nothing to do with Abhisit, nothing to do with corruption, it's a pure technicality being gleefully exploited by a filthy despicable and petty carcass of a twice-banned corrupt party.

Your stupidity is offensive to me. I'm very offended. So offended that I am liable to insult you in response; if you persist with the provocation and insults and idiocy which flow unhindered and swift, direct from your keyboard every time you post.

stupidity........idiocy...........offensive? we are talking about corruption in Thailand not about individual posters. I always like the saying Dont fight with pigs because you both get covered in pig crap and the pig likes it, so my porky friend as you can't keep our exchanges civil I am not going to reply to you anymore.

[jayjay0]

sure he is a great guy shame he and his party could well be about to be shown as being as corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians. Thanks for the insults, I have never seen the need to insult posters but I guess some people resort to insults when they have obviously been proved to have been wrong.

lol

I resort to insults because i) I believe in moderately intelligent discussion, and you do not - ergo, you are insulting me with your stupidity, and ii) I have been posting on forums for many, many years...and have never, not once, seen an invested idiot read a sensible argument and reverse their ridiculously flawed nonsensical 'opinion'.

------------

As corrupt as the rest of Thai politicians, you say?

The Democrats were supposed to spend the money on advertising boards at intersections but opted for smaller signs attached to poles for power cables, which the prosecution contends is a breach of election laws.

http://www.reuters.c...E69H1LQ20101018

Egad. The corruption is like nothing Thailand has ever seen! It's non-corruption. It's a ridiculous technicality - the money was not stolen, not diverted to terrorism, not funding bombing campaigns (like the PTP's baht)...it was used for smaller advertising signs than it was initially earmarked for. Nothing to do with Abhisit, nothing to do with corruption, it's a pure technicality being gleefully exploited by a filthy despicable and petty carcass of a twice-banned corrupt party.

Your stupidity is offensive to me. I'm very offended. So offended that I am liable to insult you in response; if you persist with the provocation and insults and idiocy which flow unhindered and swift, direct from your keyboard every time you post.

stupidity........idiocy...........offensive? we are talking about corruption in Thailand not about individual posters. I always like the saying Dont fight with pigs because you both get covered in pig crap and the pig likes it, so my porky friend as you can't keep our exchanges civil I am not going to reply to you anymore.

Finely you post some thing intelligent.

You never answered my question did you even read the article?

[craigt3365]

Looks like some people here need a little history on the history of the Royal Thai Police.

The founding father of the current RTP. Phao Sriyanond

Phao was promoted to the position of director of the police in 1951, by which time he had become one of the country's all-powerful triumvirate. A client of the CIA, Phao received funds and hardware to build his personal fortune, as well as to turn the police into an alternative force to oppose his military rival, Sarit Thanarat.

Phao established an intimate circle of police officers, known generally as the "Knights of the Diamond Ring", which was notorious for its treatment of opponents of the government and the police generals - even resorting to assassination and murder. Their crimes were many:

* In March 1949, three MPs from Isaan and an associate, all one-time disciples of the exiled Pridi, were arrested on charges of treason. They were shot dead by their police escort while supposedly being transferred from one jail to another.

* On December 12, 1952, Tiang Sirikhanth - MP for Sakon Nakhon, a leading Seri Thai member and an opponent of the government - was arrested with four of his associates. They were murdered (allegedly by strangulation in a police station) and their bodies burned in a forest in Kanchanaburi Province.

* A successful newspaper publisher, Ari Liwara, refused to sell out to Phao and was killed in March 1953.

* In 1954 Phon Malithong, MP for Samut Sakhon who provided evidence of corruption against Phao in Parliament, was in found tied to a concrete pier in the Chao Phraya River, having first been strangled.

Phao was extremely wealthy. He demanded protection money from businessmen, rigged the gold exchange, and blackmailed corporations into giving him huge shareholdings. He also profited greatly from the opium trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phao_Sriyanond

Ben Kwarm Thai.

And people actually think Taksin brought corruption here.

Great info, thanks for the post!

[TheyCallmeScooter]

stupidity........idiocy...........offensive? we are talking about corruption in Thailand not about individual posters. I always like the saying Dont fight with pigs because you both get covered in pig crap and the pig likes it, so my porky friend as you can't keep our exchanges civil I am not going to reply to you anymore.

I will miss our witty - civil - exchanges. The ones where you make a blatantly untrue idiotic statement, I provide evidence proving your position is irrational or false (and a non-emotional statement of fact you deem to be insulting), at which point you ignore the evidence and claim another illogical nonsensical claim is true, at which point I provide evidence...

Well, this isn't very witty. dumbazz oink oink

Some people would get offended at pig references. But only offensive people get offended hmm...

You never answered my question did you even read the article?

Did you, Dumbo? nb. pls reply to jayjay0 if I've mercifully been placed on Ignore.

[AleG]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

[way2muchcoffee]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

Are you seriously suggesting that when pulled over for a bogus infraction and exploited by the police on scene it is better to waste 4 hours going to the police station to retrieve your license, and pay a higher fine, all for a moving violation that never existed in the first place?

Edited October 20, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[craigt3365]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

Are you seriously suggesting that when pulled over for a bogus infraction and exploited by the police on scene it is better to waste 4 hours going to the police station to retrieve your license, and pay a higher fine, all for a moving violation that never existed in the first place?

I agree with AleG says. It's just too easy here to pay off the cop. But you are right that the police put you in a situation where you basically have to pay the bribe. When they start doing REAL tickets, that are tracked and enforced, then the highway mafia may stop this BS....then again, maybe not!

Also, when you talk about corruption, there are 2 sides to it. The payee and payor. I think the Thai's don't mind paying a bit here and there because many have also gotten a few baht under the table for this and that. So when it comes time to pay, it's no biggie. Cuts both ways...

[Pi Sek]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

Are you seriously suggesting that when pulled over for a bogus infraction and exploited by the police on scene it is better to waste 4 hours going to the police station to retrieve your license, and pay a higher fine, all for a moving violation that never existed in the first place?

Nearly. I think AleG's suggesting that it is better to spend 4 hours at the police stations and retrieve your license, refuse to pay a fine at all, and suggest to the official in question that they explain their action to your lawyer, their superiors or the public prosecutor. I use the word "spend" instead of "waste" because the experience will put you on a better standing for the future and the experience will make officials, one by one, realize that Abhisit is serious about getting the ball rolling regarding reform. In my opinion, not a waste.

[Hawk]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

The police in Thailand have been corrupt since the very beginning when they first realized that they had a lot of power, and this was before Thaksin was even born.

[craigt3365]

Thai police have been heavily corrupted by Thaksin, and Thasksin alone. It is like a kind of illness.

It will take a while after Thaksin death for the corrupted police to recover.

The police in Thailand have been corrupt since the very beginning when they first realized that they had a lot of power, and this was before Thaksin was even born.

There are corrupt police in every country in the world. But for sure, some countries are worse than others. I was in Kenya 2 years ago. Traveled by minibus from Uganda to the capital. The poor driver got stopped every 30 minutes or so and had to pay a bribe. He kept the money in his visor, folded up so it could fit into his palm. It was passed during a handshake. I've seen this happen in so many countries...Argentina, Ecuador, Mexico, Indonesia, Rwanda, Vietnam, India, Croatia, etc.

In the US, they just caught a border patrol agent taking money from a drug runner. I guess they are now using blimps with cameras and on the trial run caught this guy red handed!!!

[way2muchcoffee]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

Are you seriously suggesting that when pulled over for a bogus infraction and exploited by the police on scene it is better to waste 4 hours going to the police station to retrieve your license, and pay a higher fine, all for a moving violation that never existed in the first place?

Nearly. I think AleG's suggesting that it is better to spend 4 hours at the police stations and retrieve your license, refuse to pay a fine at all, and suggest to the official in question that they explain their action to your lawyer, their superiors or the public prosecutor. I use the word "spend" instead of "waste" because the experience will put you on a better standing for the future and the experience will make officials, one by one, realize that Abhisit is serious about getting the ball rolling regarding reform. In my opinion, not a waste.

Have you gone to the station? I have. They do not care for your story. The police officer issued a citation. You are guilty. Period. If you were not guilty you would never have been cited. There is no proof one way or the other and the desk officers will side with the traffic officer in a case of your word against his. The only way you will get satisfaction at the station is by either sweet-talking them or by pulling an influence card. And that too is corruption. It is a lose-lose situation all around.

Edited October 20, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Pi Sek]

Funny, where does anyone here say anything about the people that feed the corruption?

It's a two sided problem, and since corrupt officials are leeches that feed on society is the responsibility of the society as a whole to stop feeding them. You can't expect a crook to wake up one morning, look himself in the mirror and decide that it's time to stop being a crook. Either you jail them or never feed them bribes. And since by and large the people with the authority to investigate and prosecute corruption are just another brick in the wall so to speak, then it's left to a concerned society to try and fix the problem.

That of course leads to the answer of why corruption is so rampant and obscene here is because Thai society is OK with it, people pay up, condone and turn their eyes away from it. They may wail, they may tear their clothes and pull their hairs, but when push comes to shove they fold a few notes and pass them discretely under the table rather than bother with formalities or facing responsibilities for their infractions.

Foreigners in Thailand are also part of the problem (I mean, the ones that also feed the monster), traffic infraction, pay 200 Baht on tea money and get away. How many times have we read that in this forum? Koh Tao, a few months ago waiting for the ferry, I saw a tourist (Anglo as far as I could discern) trying to bribe a ferry employee with 200 baht to get his ticket without getting on the cue, insisted 3 or 4 times and my hat's off to the young man that refused.

Just examples, but small examples, every day, everywhere, from little more than pocket change to fortunes shoved down the beast's throat. People living and visiting Thailand, before getting outraged about this or that corrupt official should take a look at themselves and see if they are not also part of the problem.

I may well cast as many stones as I wish for in 4 years living here I haven't paid one single satang of tea money to anyone, so I don't think it should be that difficult to do.

Are you seriously suggesting that when pulled over for a bogus infraction and exploited by the police on scene it is better to waste 4 hours going to the police station to retrieve your license, and pay a higher fine, all for a moving violation that never existed in the first place?

Nearly. I think AleG's suggesting that it is better to spend 4 hours at the police stations and retrieve your license, refuse to pay a fine at all, and suggest to the official in question that they explain their action to your lawyer, their superiors or the public prosecutor. I use the word "spend" instead of "waste" because the experience will put you on a better standing for the future and the experience will make officials, one by one, realize that Abhisit is serious about getting the ball rolling regarding reform. In my opinion, not a waste.

Have you gone to the station? I have. They do not care for your story. The police officer issued a citation. You are guilty. Period. If you were not guilty you would never have been cited. There is no proof one way or the other and the desk officers will side with the traffic officer in a case of your word against his. The only way you will get satisfaction at the station is by either sweet-talking them or by pulling an influence card. And that too is corruption. It is a lose-lose situation all around.

Yes, I have too. I have even gone to court and named and shamed people - yet I am still alive (several years later), still telling abusive Thai policemen that they are servants of the Law rather than the Law itself and that they are effectively my direct employees as a taxpayer - so "watch your ****ing mouth before I make problem for you"!

If "there is no proof one way or the other" and "a case of your word against his", the court is unable to punish you. I realise this may sound naive, but I can personally assure you it is not.