Bumrungrad Hospital

[sgiandubh]

The Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok is generally regarded as one of the top hospitals for foreign visitors - However be warned - it all comes at a steep price.

My girlfriend had some pregnancy blood tests done there (11800b) which were handed to me on a single sheet of A4 with no comment or explaination offered - As you may imagine, it was simply a group of letters and numbers that meant nothing to me. I asked at the appropriate desk only to be told that the test results were all OK, However, if I wanted someone to explain the details it would cost a further 600b. Form your own judgement from this shoddy practice.

On a further visit, I asked the doctor about the date of conception which he passed on to my girlfriend, in thai, that I was questioning if I was the biological father of out child. I have, as you may imagine, registered a formal complaint against the doctor but fully expect that it will all be disregarded and swept under the proverbial carpet.

Add to this, very poor attention to appointment times, (that they arrange in the first place) disinterested nursing staff, sullen faces throughout the 'womans centre' and a general lack of interest shown by both the doctor and the administration staff and it all adds up to the feeling that The Bumrungrad Hospital are nothing but profit led and unprofessional.

We are now registered with the Yanhee which although is further away from our home, is a complete contrast. They appoint an english speaking coordinator from the word 'go', treat you like you are a valued client, have attentive and caring staff and above all, get the job done, professionally and with great skill and efficiency. I cannot commend them highly enough.

Of course, In order to present a balanced opinion here, I fully accept that many will have good experiences at this hospital but I caution everyone to at least consider that there are other places where your procedure can be done that will cater for your needs in a more competent,efficient and cost effective way that the Bumrungrad.

[richard_smith237]

I have to agree. I was at Bumrungrad a few weeks back and left rather frustrated.

I'd pre-authorised the visit (payment) with Bupa, however a small mistake on the Pre-authorisation form meant that Bupa had to be contacted again to re-submit a corrected pre-authorisation form - It should have been simple right ?

Bumrungrad informed me that they couldn't obtain the authorisation as it was outside of the Bupa Agents (in Thailand) office hours (after 5pm). As instructions stand the hospitals should contact Bupa in the UK outside of local office hours. Bumrungrad wouldn't do that, I'm assuming this was simply unprofessionalism. At that time there was no-one in the accounts who spoke English and at the time I was not aware of the precise procedure.

I ended up dealing with Bupa in the UK myself and was furious with Bumrungrad who cared so much about receiving money that they insisted on taking payment from my Credit Card (which I refused) as my treatment was being pre-authorised with direct settlement from Bupa.

Eventually it took two hours to obtain the Bupa settlement because Bumrungrad did not follow the correct 'pre-authorisation' procedure outside of office hours.

All of this was over a B6200 hospital cost.

[sunny747]

they won't care about you guys. They are fine with Arabs and Bangladeshi patient. that's their main source of income. simply don't go there as there are many good hospital here.

[Hawkup2000]

Maybe can post in this thread...

[negreanu]

Samitivej, friendlier, quieter, cleaner, cheaper

[phetaroi]

As the OP said, others will have had different experiences. As did I. I never bothered to make appointments, just walked in, and always saw a doctor within 15 minutes. The doctors always explained diagnoses with me and answered any questions I had. I had their most complete physical last December, and recently (now that I'm back in the States) an American doctor reviewed the physical results and said it was one of the most thorough physicals he has ever seen.

That's not to say I was always perfectly happy with Bumrungrad. I once vehemently agreed with one doctor on a rather invasive test that she insisted I have for a rather obscure health possibility that was clearly "over-testing". But that kind of situation is common in many hospitals.

[stander]

Bumrungrad has been my hospital of choice for 24 years and I can honestly say I can’t fault it. As far as I am concerned it is a world class hospital.

[nocturn]

google "any hospital" + "complaint" and see what you get.

the web is full of people screaming "they killed my father". It is an emotionally charged topic.

I could easily argue that both my parents are dead due to malpractice at Vancouver General, but it won't bring em back.

Head back to your HMO and lets talk about medical treatment.

Doctors kill people. Nurses kill people. People kill people and doctors and nurses are only human.

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/m/medication_errors/stats.htm

interesting reading.

[chiang mai]

I've had a lot of work done at Bumrungrad over the years and have never been disappointed with any aspect of the hospital and in some instances I've even been pleasantly surprised by their costs. I had angioplasty performed there three years ago and the bill was only about a third of what I had been led to expect it might be, fantastic service and hugely professional. Last month I had a lump removed from my arm, a hospital in Chiang Mai had told me it was a cyst and that I had to stop taking anti-coagulants for a week (very high risk) before they would remove it - I walked into Bumrungrad without an appointment and a surgeon removed a tumour an hour later at cost that was half of what I'd been quoted in Chiang Mai. I could go on and on about the positives of Bumrungrad but I accept that some people may not have been as lucky as I have in my dealings with the hospital. I have to say though that if I get sick, any where in the world, Bumrungrad is where I would try to get to for my treatment.

[tartempion]

Bumrungrad has been my hospital of choice for 24 years and I can honestly say I can't fault it. As far as I am concerned it is a world class hospital.

I suffered a myocardial infarct in Thailand May 2000 and was first treated at Pattaya Memorial a few days, then transferred to Bumrungrad.

After angioplasty I was told I would need 4 bypasses, but that would need to wait one month.

I was being taking care of at Intensive Care cardiology an observed the main activity there was performing bypasses on people not looking Thai (etnic Chinese and farangs)

I had a 5min/day doctor visit which showed on the bill as doctor fees 5k baht/day.

My insurance company sent a cardiologist over to ensure safe travel back to Europe.

Before leaving I mentioned my next station would be my home town university hospital, highly renowned for cardiology.

I asked him his opinion on the 4 bypass recommendation, to which he replied: Good you will get a second opinion at your home town uni hospital....

Bumrungrad cardiologist visited me with a collegue, asking to say hello in their name to prof. XX, head of angioplasty of my home town university hospital, both studied there!

A few days later at my home hospital angioplasty was performed again and two stents were implemented.

I talked to prof XX and when I told him his students recommendation was 4 bypasses he shrugged.

He clearly did not want to comment......Other doctors who met my two Bumrungrad doctors told me they were Hi-So and that Bumrungrad was also Hi-So, does that make them top performer high quality???

My conclusion was Bumrungrad was making good money performing bypasses.

So they learned how to make money implementing stents lately?

Edited October 20, 2010 by tartempion

[CarlBkk]

I think the general conclusion of Bumrungrad is that they're brilliant with technology, care and difficult operations but they over-test, overcharge and generally over-diagnose. What I mean is that for a minor problem they are likely to make it a big deal...and this often leads to overtesting and recommendation for an operation where other mid-range hospitals would try non-invasive measures first. That's not good. Definitely my experience anyway.

The solution is NOT to go straight to that hospital but first visit a couple of mid-rangers to get doctor's opinions then do your research online. You may find that another hospital has a better reputation for the treatment you need. If you know you need a complicated operation and you have the funds...Bumrungrad is probably the one.

[fletchsmile]

This caught my eye, as I was actually googling Bumrungrad for something else.

Anything serious for anyone I love and care about we always head to Bumrungrad. My wife's complications on pregnancy. Children born there. Father being terminally ill - they bought us a few more months when he developed another serious illness on holiday here, and was eventually shipped home by plane in ICU, after 4 weeks. The way they arranged all that was fantastic. Surgery on myself. Our youngest daughter is actually there now and stayed overnight, with very high fever. As my wife was upset, and there was a possible risk, they gave us the choice last night of her coming home and us carefully monitoring and giving medicine or an overnight stay. We both quickly reached the same conclusion. Didn't even ask the price, as we know ball parks anyway, and I can spend that on a good night out

They have been nothing short of fantastic on the healthcare when it really mattered. The doctors we've seen for anything serious have always been excellent. I always find if I ask questions which I do, they will answer very openly. My wife tends not to ask so much. When it has been really serious, doctors have given us their own personal mobiles, and said call anytime.

They're not perfect though, and no health service is. They are expensive by Thai standards. They do have a tendency to be overly cautious - but I actually would prefer that. They do overprescribe a bit in my view on medicines with things like paracetmols, you can buy OTC. They are a business and profit orientated. On smaller routine things this is more noticeable. On the bigger stuff, they've always been excellent.

Basically in my view you're paying for it. But it's THE best hospital in Thailand. I can't put a price on those close to me, so accept paying. When I buy a car I want value for money, and go for a cheaper model. For healthcare I simply want the best.

Edited October 21, 2010 by fletchsmile

[phetaroi]

I think the general conclusion of Bumrungrad is that they're brilliant with technology, care and difficult operations but they over-test, overcharge and generally over-diagnose. What I mean is that for a minor problem they are likely to make it a big deal...and this often leads to overtesting and recommendation for an operation where other mid-range hospitals would try non-invasive measures first. That's not good. Definitely my experience anyway.

As I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, I disagreed with a doctor's conclusion that I needed a rather invasive test, changed to a different doctor also at Bumrungrad, and he agreed with me that it was an unnecessary test under the situation of the symptoms I had because what the first doctor was "worried about" was a truly rare medical condition. On the other hand, now back living in the States, I just applied for long-term care insurance since I am getting older. When I first applied, due to a temporary flare-up in blood pressure due to the altitude where I moved to (in Colorado), they were going to turn me down. When I submitted the extensive physical I had at Bumrungrad last December, I was immediately approved.

[Sheryl]

Hospitals are buildings with equipment and individual professionals working inside them.

Hospitals per se don't "do" anything. Individual people working within them do.

The various complaints above are not about things that Bumrungrad did/does. They are about things that specific doctors, nurses or other staff, among the thousands who work there, did. Likewise the favorable reports.

Taking pot luck on your doctor, or expecting the choice of hospital to guarantee you a good one, always runs a good chance of an unsatisfactory ending - in more ways than one. Take the time and trouble to do some preliminary research and select a doctor based on qualifications, experience and, where possible, recommendations.

It is always best to look for a doctor with training and experience in a Western country and, preferrably, relevant board certification from one. Not only is this a good indication of expertise and language skills, but prior acculturation to the expectations and communication styles of western patients will make help avoid misunderstandings and offense on both sides.

[Shotime]

I would agree that, generally speaking, their medical staff is good. However, their business practices are questionable. The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering. Other than taking advantage of certain situations, the medical end of it seems fine. Maybe it varies with the economic situation.

[chiang mai]

I would agree that, generally speaking, their medical staff is good. However, their business practices are questionable. The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering. Other than taking advantage of certain situations, the medical end of it seems fine. Maybe it varies with the economic situation.

I think it is only fair that you explain what you mean re, "The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering" because as things stand you paint the hospital as dishonest and that's certainly never been my experience.

Edited October 22, 2010 by chiang mai

[Old Man River]

Anything serious for anyone I love and care about we always head to Bumrungrad.

Basically in my view you're paying for it. But it's THE best hospital in Thailand. I can't put a price on those close to me, so accept paying. When I buy a car I want value for money, and go for a cheaper model. For healthcare I simply want the best.

I am with you on this. 100%.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Old Man River

[jdinasia]

Bumrungrad has been my hospital of choice for 24 years and I can honestly say I can't fault it. As far as I am concerned it is a world class hospital.

Not 24 years for me but I think Bumrungrad is world class too! My partner uses them exclusively and I have used them on many instances. The OP seems put out that the Dr translated something the OP said ... to the PATIENT.In my mind I see that playing out this way.

BF- Doctor can you tell me the date of conception?

Patient- (The person the Dr is being paid to serve) What did he ask?

Dr.- He asked if I knew when you conceived.

Patient to BF ---- &^$^%$%$#@%$@#

BF to Dr- Why did you tell her what I asked?

Dr. to BF.- This is HER appointment and she asked. My duty is not to you but to her.

[Shotime]

I would agree that, generally speaking, their medical staff is good. However, their business practices are questionable. The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering. Other than taking advantage of certain situations, the medical end of it seems fine. Maybe it varies with the economic situation.

I think it is only fair that you explain what you mean re, "The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering" because as things stand you paint the hospital as dishonest and that's certainly never been my experience.

I'll be brief. I was in the hospital for one thing, but they proceeded to treat me for things I asked them not to. My understanding is that they cannot do this. When I checked out, there was a mountain of medicine for things I had asked them not to treat. I was aware that what they felt should also be treated was not necessary. I refused the medicine. but they wouldn't adjust the bill. The medicine amounted to almost 20K baht.

[chiang mai]

I would agree that, generally speaking, their medical staff is good. However, their business practices are questionable. The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering. Other than taking advantage of certain situations, the medical end of it seems fine. Maybe it varies with the economic situation.

I think it is only fair that you explain what you mean re, "The billing department can be deceitful, and unwavering" because as things stand you paint the hospital as dishonest and that's certainly never been my experience.

I'll be brief. I was in the hospital for one thing, but they proceeded to treat me for things I asked them not to. My understanding is that they cannot do this. When I checked out, there was a mountain of medicine for things I had asked them not to treat. I was aware that what they felt should also be treated was not necessary. I refused the medicine. but they wouldn't adjust the bill. The medicine amounted to almost 20K baht.

It's seems fairly common practice for farangs to refuse some or all prescribed medication, I've done the same many times and have always had my final bill adjusted as a result, even at Burungrad.

[sgiandubh]

Interesting thought but sadly nether relevant factual. Amazing that you can postulate in such a manner given that you were not present.

Bumrungrad has been my hospital of choice for 24 years and I can honestly say I can't fault it. As far as I am concerned it is a world class hospital.

Not 24 years for me but I think Bumrungrad is world class too! My partner uses them exclusively and I have used them on many instances. The OP seems put out that the Dr translated something the OP said ... to the PATIENT.In my mind I see that playing out this way.

BF- Doctor can you tell me the date of conception?

Patient- (The person the Dr is being paid to serve) What did he ask?

Dr.- He asked if I knew when you conceived.

Patient to BF ---- &^$^%$%$#@%$@#

BF to Dr- Why did you tell her what I asked?

Dr. to BF.- This is HER appointment and she asked. My duty is not to you but to her.

[jdinasia]

On a further visit, I asked the doctor about the date of conception which he passed on to my girlfriend, in thai, that I was questioning if I was the biological father of out child. I have, as you may imagine, registered a formal complaint against the doctor but fully expect that it will all be disregarded and swept under the proverbial carpet.

I grant that I may NOT be correct .... but my basic surmise is certainly plausible So possibly not factual, but certainly relevant. That the Dr. repeated what you said to his patient doesn't seem to be in question and I don't know if you understand Thai fluently enough to know exactly what was said

I'll still choose Bumrungrad for anything serious in the future and my experiences with their Dr's have left me pleased every single time I have been there, either as a patient or with my partner when he has been the patient.

Edited October 23, 2010 by jdinasia

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I've been to Bumrumgrad twice. The first was in 2007 after a runaway trolley at the airport collected me at the bottom of the ramp. The worst thing was on it's long descent down, a security guard was trying to warn me but I was just staring at him confused like an idiot lol. His shouts increased in intensity rapidly and I finally turned around just in time to watch the impact. Bumrumgrad Emergency was brilliant. Just...brilliant.

Earlier this year, I sliced open my preferred hand just below the index finger whilst washing a glass which shattered in my hand. I was pretty sure I'd hit the tendon, it was pretty horrifically deep. Luckily, I have almost full control of the finger but 9 stitches were required. The pain was...ridiculous. Bumrumgrad Emergency was....the actions of staff were unconscionable. To relay the insanity in full would require a 5000 word report. But the standouts were:

• 25 min before I was given painkiller injection
• During which time, two nurses tried to remove the blood soaked rag which had partly clotted inside the gash; their intent was purely to gauge the severity of the wound - nothing more. I refused, after they confirmed they had no painkillers for the inevitable excruciating pain that would ensue; they confirmed they were not doctors and had no equipment or intent of stitching the wound (I think one wanted to determine whether stitches "were necessary" ??); they confirmed a doctor was not immediately available, which was fine, but of course made their intent to rip open the wound beyond moronic
• When I told them through gritted teeth to remove themselves from my vicinity after they persisted with attempting to re-tear the gash against my wishes...to say their attitudes were "screw you then" would be something close to accurate
• The billing department was...literally what.the.f? Before a single medical benefit has been performed, with my hand covered in blood, a clerk demanded a B4000 "downpayment". I gave him a stack of credit cards and my passport. He returned and demanded I sign the CC charge slip. I held up my bloodied hand and told him to kindly remove himself from my view. He demanded I sign the receipt. I grabbed the pen with my non-preferred hand and scrawled as best I could my 'signature'. He - and my friends insist I am fabricating this but I swear I am not - he...tried to compare the signatures from the back of my CCs with the bloody scrawl and was clearly uncomfortable that they did not match lol
• When the doctor finally arrived, he was competent except for two smallish things; 1) he lied about the period of time between injection and effect of the anaesthesia, he said it would be "instant" - lol - that was a horrific minute of 'instant'; and 2) he insisted that I required a tetanus shot because I couldn't remember (I was kind of 'distracted') if I'd had a booster in the last 5 yrs (FIVE years, not 10 - I was 100% certain I'd had boosters in 10, but he INSISTED it was 5 and I was unsure)
• When I wanted to talk about this tetanus shot business, he didn't want to - I assumed he was too busy, but later upon refreshing my memory about tetanus booster nonsense and confirming it was 10 yrs and not 5 like he claimed, his unwillingness to discuss the necessity for the 'requirement' of the incredibly painful and debilitating shot....hmm
• I had never consented to receiving the shot, and wished to talk just for a freaking minute or two about it first...but the despicably rude nurse who was insulted at my politely requesting she not tear open the wound for NO POSSIBLE REASON WHATSOEVER when I first arrived...then arrived with the shot and attempted to inject me. I told her she would regret doing so. She stormed off in a huff.
• With the doctor too busy or otherwise unwilling to discuss the shot, I thought better of it and decided to go to Samitivej where I could trust the docs
• I went to cashier to finalise my bill. B11,000 from memory. For basically 9 stitches, some Tylenol (lol) and antibiotics. Of course they charged me for the tetanus booster I never required, never requested, and was never given. I had no desire to argue with the filthy scamming scum, so I paid and left.

I'm not sure how horrific an injury would be required for me to step foot in that hellhole again. But I imagine it would likely have to be life-threatening. In conclusion,

Samitivej, friendlier, quieter, cleaner, cheaper

[Nawtier]

Samitivej was certainly not cheaper in my case/opinion.

They also wanted to operate on something and remove it instead of repair...whereas Bumgrab stated it is always best to repair first.

Samitivej i stayed for 2 nights and could not walk afterwards.

Bumgrab where I had the same operation 12 months later...was in and out the same day and basically walked out under my own steam.

Price was huge differance also.

But, on the other hand, when my daughter was born, they quoted us a price for the package...and then when the insurance company agreed to pay for it, they charged them 3 times that agreed price to us.

[sgiandubh]

Thank you to all those who have replied to my original post. As I mentioned, I am sure that many have had a great service from the Bumrungrad hospital and if you fit into this catagory - great, I am truly hapy that you are satisfied with whatever you had done there.

Sadly, the Bumrungrad has fallen short of satisfactory for my partner and me - even our formal complaint to them, although acknowledged, has largely been ignored.

I fully accept that, as someone said, a hospital is only as good as it's staff and the Bumrungrad should not be judged by one bad experience - That said, when one compares like for like, the Yanhee hospital comes out tops every time. The fact that they appoint an english speaking coordinator to you immediately upon arrival seems to me to be a major plus. It simply means that you can make your wishes, demands, fears, concerns etc. known without problems being encountered. I may also add, that many of their attending staff are from the Philippines and are therefore fluent in english - again another plus.

To conclude, we had an extremely bad experience at the Bumrungrad at all levels and a top level experience at the Yanhee but please, do not take my word for it, judge for yourself - look beyond the advertising hype, the bright lights and busy entrance lobby at the former - get to the main point you are in hospital and I am sure that you will find the the Yanhee is miles ahead of the Bumrungrad in terms of customer care, accommodation, competence and professionalism. Whatever - i do hope that you receive whatever you hope for where ever you get treated.

Happy healing.

J

[Lumumba]

All my visits to Bumrun have been all good experiences, except once when I had an itchy nipple and my regular doctor ( who will chit chat with me for like 15 mins on every visit because my complaints take less to 2 mins to be made) sent me to see a skin doctor, the average looking lady would not even get close to my offending nipple , but the cream she prescribed was spot on.

I liked the place better when it was just the old buildings, the newly add ons make it like I am in supersized makro store looking for a tube of KY .

But I was dragged once to BNH, Next time I need to see a guy in a lab coat and If my Bumrun.. Dr is not in, I ll head over to BNH.