Thai army chief: Political gatherings banned during UN chief's visit

[nicknostitz]

Furthermore - i have no problem with people discussing/criticizing my work as long as it stays within limits of politeness and the legally permitted. Everybody is entitled to his views, and to different interpretation of facts. Nevertheless, several of the posts here come very close to libel. Be advised that from now on i will file libel cases when i see comments about me that cross the legally permitted. u.

You need to get thicker skin or expect to not be able to work in any nation outside of Thailand - where you cannot threaten detractors with criminal libel cases.

That libel cases is here a criminal offense is a pathetic joke and an important left-over of the elite-controlled system the Red Shirts say they want to fight.

Just a note...

This is not a question of thick or thin skin. In very few other countries rumor based hate campaigns (often starting off in cyberspace) against journalists go to such lows as here right now, where as a result of such campaigns journalists receive regular death threats as a result of their work.

We work within the law, and the only defense we have is the law.

[nicknostitz]

Hope you do stick around. You'll bring some much-needed balance.

Thank you.

I will not stick around though, i have way too much work on my hand.

[Insight]

Well its contradictions such as this which tear down any impression you attempt to give of being impartial IMO.

I was under the impression you worked as a freelance journalist, no?

I am not going into a cheap point scoring match here. You are free to believe what you want, including to feel that my work is not "impartial" - i have no time trying to convince you otherwise.

And yes, i am a freelancer. But that still means that in order to live and work legally in Thailand i have to get my accreditation through the Ministry of Foreign affairs.

Okay, thought I'd check. Just that I found the below sentence on being "assigned and paid" quite curious:

Not really interested in the flood - as long as i am not assigned and paid to do that, i won't bother.

[animatic]

Njoy yourself over here. Long time no see.

I think you'll find the person who you responded to enjoys winding people up and more

Have you been covering any of the flood stuff by the way

Winding up people is his choice. If the person breaks libel laws while doing that with me - he may enjoy his day in court as well.

Not really interested in the flood - as long as i am not assigned and paid to do that, i won't bother. I have no real personal interest in the flood - i have been 15 years ago under water for three months myself while living in a village outside Bangkok. Water comes, water goes, but i will spend my energy on this socio-political conflict.

Good luck getting a Thai students non-existent paycheck.

With that one you would pay more for legal fees than she will make in the next 5 years.

[animatic]

Furthermore - i have no problem with people discussing/criticizing my work as long as it stays within limits of politeness and the legally permitted. Everybody is entitled to his views, and to different interpretation of facts. Nevertheless, several of the posts here come very close to libel. Be advised that from now on i will file libel cases when i see comments about me that cross the legally permitted. u.

You need to get thicker skin or expect to not be able to work in any nation outside of Thailand - where you cannot threaten detractors with criminal libel cases.

That libel cases is here a criminal offense is a pathetic joke and an important left-over of the elite-controlled system the Red Shirts say they want to fight.

Just a note...

This is not a question of thick or thin skin. In very few other countries rumor based hate campaigns (often starting off in cyberspace) against journalists go to such lows as here right now, where as a result of such campaigns journalists receive regular death threats as a result of their work.

We work within the law, and the only defense we have is the law.

Which would appear to leave you defenseless in Thailand.

[nicknostitz]

Okay, thought I'd check. Just that I found the below sentence on being "assigned and paid" quite curious:

Freelancers mainly live from two sources - selling images (or texts), and from getting assignments to cover particular stories - usually paid by day rate.

[nicknostitz]

Good luck getting a Thai students non-existent paycheck.

With that one you would pay more for legal fees than she will make in the next 5 years.

I do not care about other people's money - i care about not being slandered by other people, even if i have to take it to court. I prefer though not having to go to such extreme measures. I want to do my work, and not having to have conflicts.

For some people slandering working journalists may be a joke, but for us and our families it can end up in death threats and physical danger. I had to adapt and change my family's lifestyle because of threats i received. Every libelous accusation set into the world by thoughtless or nasty people means danger to my family. I will not tolerate that.

People are free to criticize or disagree with what i write - but there are certain limits that are to be kept to. If they are crossed - there are very harsh laws here to deal with such cases.

[whybother]

@Nick ... on reading the article and your comment below it, I have 2 questions.

1) Is it so unusual to have pre-screened questions in cases like this (major dignitaries visiting foreign countries).

2) When did the government say that "all the protesters that were killed were killed by the militants in the Red Shirt camp"?

Thanks ...

[nicknostitz]

@Nick ... on reading the article and your comment below it, I have 2 questions.

1) Is it so unusual to have pre-screened questions in cases like this (major dignitaries visiting foreign countries).

2) When did the government say that "all the protesters that were killed were killed by the militants in the Red Shirt camp"?

Thanks ...

1) I asked several of my more experienced colleagues, and they said that it is quite unusual in such press conferences. I have never experienced this before here in Thailand.

2) Neither the government nor the military leadership has yet acknowledged in public that any protester was killed by the security forces, yet has always stated that "unknown forces" or "Men in Black" are to be blamed. If you know of a statement by the government or military where they have acknowledged that protesters were killed by security forces, i would appreciate if you could give a link to it.

Even the horrible friendly fire incident at Vibhavadi Rangsit Rd where one young soldier died was not yet acknowledged as such. It happened right in front of me and a few other foreign photographers - we have seen it, and it was very ugly.

[Pi Sek]

@Nick ... on reading the article and your comment below it, I have 2 questions.

1) Is it so unusual to have pre-screened questions in cases like this (major dignitaries visiting foreign countries).

2) When did the government say that "all the protesters that were killed were killed by the militants in the Red Shirt camp"?

Thanks ...

1) I asked several of my more experienced colleagues, and they said that it is quite unusual in such press conferences. I have never experienced this before here in Thailand.

2) Neither the government nor the military leadership has yet acknowledged in public that any protester was killed by the security forces, yet has always stated that "unknown forces" or "Men in Black" are to be blamed. If you know of a statement by the government or military where they have acknowledged that protesters were killed by security forces, i would appreciate if you could give a link to it.

Even the horrible friendly fire incident at Vibhavadi Rangsit Rd where one young soldier died was not yet acknowledged as such. It happened right in front of me and a few other foreign photographers - we have seen it, and it was very ugly.

Point #1: I can appreciate it is "quite unusual", but it does happen - visibly so in the US, the patented "land of the free".

Point #2: I'm sure that there were incidents where the security forces are responsible for deaths - most "necessary" (horrible phrase don't you think), some collateral damage. But I'm also sure that the UDD are also responsible for a fair few - more than half. I also think that, if the army had gone in unrestrained all guns blazing, we would have seen hundreds or even thousands more dead than 91. Evidence... well, none of us can provide anything conclusive but I think if we were all to be honest, I believe that no-one truly believes both sides are totally innocent, whatever our initial conclusions from the April-May mayhem.

Regarding the "friendly fire" incident - which was initially reported as friendly fire (from the military police) but the CRES denied this as the bullet came from a gun that in use by they army at the time - are you certain it was friendly fire? If there army killed a soldier through friendly fire, then it would certainly add weight to any argument that some unnecessary deaths (again, painful to write) were caused by the army.

[Siam Simon]

Furthermore - i have no problem with people discussing/criticizing my work as long as it stays within limits of politeness and the legally permitted. Everybody is entitled to his views, and to different interpretation of facts. Nevertheless, several of the posts here come very close to libel. Be advised that from now on i will file libel cases when i see comments about me that cross the legally permitted. u.

You need to get thicker skin or expect to not be able to work in any nation outside of Thailand - where you cannot threaten detractors with criminal libel cases.

That libel cases is here a criminal offense is a pathetic joke and an important left-over of the elite-controlled system the Red Shirts say they want to fight.

Just a note...

What a nonsensical reply! Making false accusations about someone's professional qualifications and accreditations is libelous/slanderous in most of the world.

Welcome to the forum, Nick. Though, should you stick around, you will find it nigh-on impossible to have civilised debate: The low-brow reactionaries that dominate these threads fight dirty, will see you as a serious threat and will do their utmost to discredit you and wear you down. Familiarise yourself with the forum rules.

Hope you do stick around. You'll bring some much-needed balance.

Please explain where you find false accusations in the reply from TAWP you quote. It may be me, but I can't find them.

Rubi, I hope you've not been put up to the 'wearing down' modus operandi. It'd be a shame and a waste if you had. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and run you through things on this one so far, on the basis that you've lost track (but I'm only doing it the once though): Nick's professional credibility was brought into question. He explained in detail his journalistic acreditiations and made clear that these are not up for debate upon pain of libel, but his writings are open to reasonable debate. TAWP tried to make a wildly invalid argument about "detractors", so I clarified his nonsense for him. Glad to be of help.

[SergeiY]

Regarding the "friendly fire" incident - which was initially reported as friendly fire (from the military police) but the CRES denied this as the bullet came from a gun that in use by they army at the time - are you certain it was friendly fire? If there army killed a soldier through friendly fire, then it would certainly add weight to any argument that some unnecessary deaths (again, painful to write) were caused by the army.

There were people killed on road check points, not only at this Viphavadi rangsit near old airport case.

People driving cars and didn't stop fast enough, at least didn't stop fast enough for some soldier boys at these check points so they open fire. One of the victims were also from the army.

A young boy/kid was also killed at such road check point.

[Siam Simon]

Good luck getting a Thai students non-existent paycheck.

With that one you would pay more for legal fees than she will make in the next 5 years.

I do not care about other people's money - i care about not being slandered by other people, even if i have to take it to court. I prefer though not having to go to such extreme measures. I want to do my work, and not having to have conflicts.

For some people slandering working journalists may be a joke, but for us and our families it can end up in death threats and physical danger. I had to adapt and change my family's lifestyle because of threats i received. Every libelous accusation set into the world by thoughtless or nasty people means danger to my family. I will not tolerate that.

People are free to criticize or disagree with what i write - but there are certain limits that are to be kept to. If they are crossed - there are very harsh laws here to deal with such cases.

Nick, Posting on Thai Visa is, unfortunately, far more than an honest exchange of views: There is a relatively small-but-organised gang of bigots that dominate the political discussions here. Beware.

[nicknostitz]

Point #1: I can appreciate it is "quite unusual", but it does happen - visibly so in the US, the patented "land of the free".

Point #2: I'm sure that there were incidents where the security forces are responsible for deaths - most "necessary" (horrible phrase don't you think), some collateral damage. But I'm also sure that the UDD are also responsible for a fair few - more than half. I also think that, if the army had gone in unrestrained all guns blazing, we would have seen hundreds or even thousands more dead than 91. Evidence... well, none of us can provide anything conclusive but I think if we were all to be honest, I believe that no-one truly believes both sides are totally innocent, whatever our initial conclusions from the April-May mayhem.

Regarding the "friendly fire" incident - which was initially reported as friendly fire (from the military police) but the CRES denied this as the bullet came from a gun that in use by they army at the time - are you certain it was friendly fire? If there army killed a soldier through friendly fire, then it would certainly add weight to any argument that some unnecessary deaths (again, painful to write) were caused by the army.

Both sides have made tremendous mistakes, without doubt. My ongoing work is looking at the particular incidents and find out as much as i can. But yes, the army has indeed held back, but so have the Red Shirt militants. The problem here is that there no resolution yet, and i believe that we are still trapped in a circle of escalation.

As to the incident at Vibhavadi Rangsit Rd - I am absolutely certain that this was a friendly fire incident - at the time no Red Shirts were in the vicinity. There was a stand off after the heavy rain storm brought the fighting to a halt (fighting has ceased for at least half an hour already), the lines were about 500 meters apart, the gas station and all other areas close enough were cleared of Red Shirts by the military, and so was the ramp to the toll way above (i still cannot believe that initially the security forces did not secure the toll way before advancing, allowing Red Shirts to throw stones at the soldiers and police officers at the road down, and soldiers firing then massive bursts of automatic rifle fire at the Red Shirts above, dust and pieces of concrete raining onto us down below...).

A few motorcycles with soldiers came through the Red Shirt lines (a colleague at the Red Shirt lines was there and photographed the scene from that side). There was bad visibility, the security forces screamed at the coming motorcycles to stop, and almost immediately fired upon the motorcycles with a massive barrage of fire. About 40 meters away from me the motorcycles crashed. I and a few other photographers ran over, security forces tried to prevent us from taking images, but failed to do so. It was a horrific scene. The first images i took the soldier was still twitching, and at the second set of images a minute or less later he was already dead.

We all switched then memory cards, in case the soldiers would have tried to take our cameras (some Thai photographers were before the incident sent off by the soldiers, i had a massive argument with a soldier who tried to prevent me to go to the military lines before the fight started, and some Thai journalists who have filmed/photographed the soldier being brought away on a stretcher had their memory cards confiscated). But we foreign photographers were left alone then.

[TAWP]

Rubi, I hope you've not been put up to the 'wearing down' modus operandi. It'd be a shame and a waste if you had. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and run you through things on this one so far, on the basis that you've lost track (but I'm only doing it the once though): Nick's professional credibility was brought into question. He explained in detail his journalistic acreditiations and made clear that these are not up for debate upon pain of libel, but his writings are open to reasonable debate. TAWP tried to make a wildly invalid argument about "detractors", so I clarified his nonsense for him. Glad to be of help.

I did what? Perhaps you need to read my post again. Slowly this time.

[bulmercke]

Ok jdinasia - if you like I will do a search on the internet tomorrow for the video in question and send the URL in a PM to you. That will settle the matter. And anyway - how do you know Voice of Thaksin and DTV didn't report on this at the time or subsequently? I didn't realise you were a subscriber to both and/or have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the content of their back issues from April 2009 onwards.

On fact I do read VoT and did have People TV on throughout almost all of the political crisis. Your claims just cannot be backed up by ANY proof. If there was ANYTHING out there it would be in constant use by the Reds. hel_l, they used doctored tapes to try and discredit Abhisit. They used pictures of dead members of the military to try and discredit the government (the soldiers died in the south and not from the reasons claimed by the reds.)

YOU made the claim .. it is up to you to show some proof. Since there isn't any (not even rumours of your claims) I guess we won't be seeing anything from you

John Le Fevre's NewsBlog - April 16 2009

http://photojourn.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/monk-i-saw-thai-army-shoot-monk-and-people-at-din-daeng/

Monk – I saw Thai army shoot monk and others at Din Daeng

(EXCERPTS FROM ARTICLE)"Sajja says he saw Thai soldiers shoot a monk and around 10 other people at Din Daeng on April 13, 2009 and then remove the bodies and wash the road

“I saw people falling down when the army was shooting at them and others run away. One of those who fell down was a monk and there was also some children there. I don’t know which temple the monk was from. I saw the soldiers pick about 10 people up off the ground and load them into a large pale-blue, almost white coloured van and then they hosed the blood off the road,” he said.

Mr “Sajja” said that while he could not be sure the people loaded into the van were dead, there was no noise coming from any of them that he could hear."

[Insight]

Nick, Posting on Thai Visa is, unfortunately, far more than an honest exchange of views: There is a relatively small-but-organised gang of bigots that dominate the political discussions here. Beware.

Care to elaborate?

(Hopefully I'll catch the response before my next shape shift)

[Siam Simon]

Rubi, I hope you've not been put up to the 'wearing down' modus operandi. It'd be a shame and a waste if you had. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and run you through things on this one so far, on the basis that you've lost track (but I'm only doing it the once though): Nick's professional credibility was brought into question. He explained in detail his journalistic acreditiations and made clear that these are not up for debate upon pain of libel, but his writings are open to reasonable debate. TAWP tried to make a wildly invalid argument about "detractors", so I clarified his nonsense for him. Glad to be of help.

I did what? Perhaps you need to read my post again. Slowly this time.

I just did that. Your nonsense is still there. Sorry I can't help you, but it's your nonsense: you have to deal with it.

[chantorn]

Point #1: I can appreciate it is "quite unusual", but it does happen - visibly so in the US, the patented "land of the free".

Point #2: I'm sure that there were incidents where the security forces are responsible for deaths - most "necessary" (horrible phrase don't you think), some collateral damage. But I'm also sure that the UDD are also responsible for a fair few - more than half. I also think that, if the army had gone in unrestrained all guns blazing, we would have seen hundreds or even thousands more dead than 91. Evidence... well, none of us can provide anything conclusive but I think if we were all to be honest, I believe that no-one truly believes both sides are totally innocent, whatever our initial conclusions from the April-May mayhem.

Regarding the "friendly fire" incident - which was initially reported as friendly fire (from the military police) but the CRES denied this as the bullet came from a gun that in use by they army at the time - are you certain it was friendly fire? If there army killed a soldier through friendly fire, then it would certainly add weight to any argument that some unnecessary deaths (again, painful to write) were caused by the army.

Both sides have made tremendous mistakes, without doubt. My ongoing work is looking at the particular incidents and find out as much as i can. But yes, the army has indeed held back, but so have the Red Shirt militants. The problem here is that there no resolution yet, and i believe that we are still trapped in a circle of escalation.

As to the incident at Vibhavadi Rangsit Rd - I am absolutely certain that this was a friendly fire incident - at the time no Red Shirts were in the vicinity. There was a stand off after the heavy rain storm brought the fighting to a halt (fighting has ceased for at least half an hour already), the lines were about 500 meters apart, the gas station and all other areas close enough were cleared of Red Shirts by the military, and so was the ramp to the toll way above (i still cannot believe that initially the security forces did not secure the toll way before advancing, allowing Red Shirts to throw stones at the soldiers and police officers at the road down, and soldiers firing then massive bursts of automatic rifle fire at the Red Shirts above, dust and pieces of concrete raining onto us down below...).

A few motorcycles with soldiers came through the Red Shirt lines (a colleague at the Red Shirt lines was there and photographed the scene from that side). There was bad visibility, the security forces screamed at the coming motorcycles to stop, and almost immediately fired upon the motorcycles with a massive barrage of fire. About 40 meters away from me the motorcycles crashed. I and a few other photographers ran over, security forces tried to prevent us from taking images, but failed to do so. It was a horrific scene. The first images i took the soldier was still twitching, and at the second set of images a minute or less later he was already dead.

We all switched then memory cards, in case the soldiers would have tried to take our cameras (some Thai photographers were before the incident sent off by the soldiers, i had a massive argument with a soldier who tried to prevent me to go to the military lines before the fight started, and some Thai journalists who have filmed/photographed the soldier being brought away on a stretcher had their memory cards confiscated). But we foreign photographers were left alone then.

"security forces tried to prevent us from taking images"

"some Thai journalists who have filmed/photographed the soldier being brought away on a stretcher had their memory cards confiscated"

Both not not true. The army job was to shoot at people, and not tp censor media you you claim.

[Siam Simon]

Nick, Posting on Thai Visa is, unfortunately, far more than an honest exchange of views: There is a relatively small-but-organised gang of bigots that dominate the political discussions here. Beware.

Care to elaborate?

(Hopefully I'll catch the response before my next shape shift)

And.....as if by magic .

[Insight]

John Le Fevre's NewsBlog - April 16 2009

Fer fcks sake, you're not serious are you? An article authored by the self-proclaimed "search engine optimisation specialist" from Pattaya is what you're touting in an attempt to convince us?

Are you aware of the conduct of this "journalist" covering the mugging of a Scottish woman some time back?

[bulmercke]

No, I don't - but I can see how they became more radicalised and militant. The shooting dead of protesters by the army - at least eight - last April 2009 at Din Daeng didn't help matters much either.

You make claims about deaths last year without providing any evidence whatsoever, and this year what deaths there were through protesters choosing to be in the company of heavily armed militants are being sensationalised for maximum political effect.

The intention behind such actions is incredibly clear to people who are not blindly red.

There was a live feed on TNN - news network - from the Viphavadi - Din Daeng area shortly after the shootings which showed from a distance army personnel and others loading corpses into the back of some trucks. I didn't myself watch this live but have subsequently seen a recording of this on YouTube or somewhere else - I can't recall where - but I have seen the video and it's pretty damning.

Also - the following morning - just a few hours later I went to the Urapong intersection - near Phitsanalok road - to see for myself what was going on - where many Red-Shirts were gathered from the night before and they all told me the same story. They were extremely distraught and upset at what had happened to their comrades and friends. This was before I knew anything about the TNN footage. The army and the government covered up these deaths.

"I call Bullshit, your Honor."

Present the videos or get out. These false claims have been coming back for 1.5 years sofar with ZERO video evidence. But it is always 'out there'. Or on 'Youtube'. Just not findable for 'us' I suppose.

T.P.B.S. THAI PUBLIC BROADCASTING SERVICE (Live feed - Viphavadi - Din Daeng - 04.58 - 14 April 2009 - 646,818 views to date)

Note that this video may have been subject to censorship by the MICT in Thailand. Video - first nine seconds missing. The first time I saw this video - on some other video sharing site - I watched it in its entirety and don't recall any part of it as being missing. In fact - the opening seconds showed bodies being loaded into the back of those pick-ups.

[Insight]

Nick, Posting on Thai Visa is, unfortunately, far more than an honest exchange of views: There is a relatively small-but-organised gang of bigots that dominate the political discussions here. Beware.

Care to elaborate?

(Hopefully I'll catch the response before my next shape shift)

And.....as if by magic .

Please elaborate. Please.

[bulmercke]

John Le Fevre's NewsBlog - April 16 2009

Fer fcks sake, you're not serious are you? An article authored by the self-proclaimed "search engine optimisation specialist" from Pattaya is what you're touting in an attempt to convince us?

Are you aware of the conduct of this "journalist" covering the mugging of a Scottish woman some time back?

John Le Fevre was only reporting. We're talking about the testimony and accusations of the head monk of a Bangkok city temple and not anything Le Fevre may or may not have been quoted as saying at the time.

QUOTE:"The monk, who chose the pseudonym “Sajja” (the word truth in Thai) for his safety and asked that his temple not be named, said he went to the Din Daeng area around 6.00am on April 13 after hearing reports of clashes earlier that morning between the Thai army and red shirt protesters."

[Siam Simon]

Nick, Posting on Thai Visa is, unfortunately, far more than an honest exchange of views: There is a relatively small-but-organised gang of bigots that dominate the political discussions here. Beware.

Care to elaborate?

(Hopefully I'll catch the response before my next shape shift)

And.....as if by magic .

Please elaborate. Please..

Please troll a bit harder . But don't lose sight of Nick .

[Insight]

John Le Fevre's NewsBlog - April 16 2009

Fer fcks sake, you're not serious are you? An article authored by the self-proclaimed "search engine optimisation specialist" from Pattaya is what you're touting in an attempt to convince us?

Are you aware of the conduct of this "journalist" covering the mugging of a Scottish woman some time back?

John Le Fevre was only reporting. We're talking about the testimony and accusations of the head monk of a Bangkok city temple and not anything Le Fevre may or may not have been quoted as saying at the time.

QUOTE:"The monk, who chose the pseudonym “Sajja” (the word truth in Thai) for his safety and asked that his temple not be named, said he went to the Din Daeng area around 6.00am on April 13 after hearing reports of clashes earlier that morning between the Thai army and red shirt protesters."

Well that makes it all true then.

[Insight]

Please troll a bit harder . But don't lose sight of Nick .

Rubbish. Throw baseless (borderline paranoid) accusations around and fail to follow them up. But silly to expect otherwise really.

[Siam Simon]

Please troll a bit harder . But don't lose sight of Nick .

Rubbish. Throw baseless (borderline paranoid) accusations around and fail to follow them up. But silly to expect otherwise really.

While we're on about paranoid accusations, where are we up to with your accusation that I can edit my posts without leaving an edit timestamp ( )?

[Insight]

Please troll a bit harder . But don't lose sight of Nick .

Rubbish. Throw baseless (borderline paranoid) accusations around and fail to follow them up. But silly to expect otherwise really.

While we're on about paranoid accusations, where are we up to with your accusation that I can edit my posts without leaving an edit timestamp ( )?

You missed SBK explaining that it had probably been modified by a mod? Or don't you pay attention?

Now please elaborate.

[bulmercke]

The crushing of the Red Shirts - April 20th - 2009 by Nick Nostitz - NEW MANDELA -

QUOTE(Nick Nostitz - Comment# 185):"On the other hand, i still suspect that a number of Red Shirts may have been killed (not dozens though, not more than maybe ten or 15 at most). I have no poof though, just suspicions.

Basically, there were two incidents we know very little about, where there is very little footage available from, and that is the early morning at Din Daeng, and the night fighting at Saphan Khao/Nang Loern. I have seen myself, and this was confirmed to me by military sources as well, that the morning attack was much less disciplined than the military actions during the day. Also statements of Red Shirts i know well, and who have taken part in all these incidents themselves reflect this. The bullet, for example, that flew over my head just before day break was clearly not aimed at the sky. Judging from the sound of the gun fired, it was not an assault rifle, but a handgun. Different from the midday push to Victory Monument, i also heard in the morning also several bursts of automatic fire, and not just single shots (i don’t know though if these burst were aimed at the sky or anywhere else).

I honestly hope i am wrong with my suspicions, and nobody got killed."

Nick Nostitz in this matter echoes my sentiments exactly.

>>>>>>>>>>

As for me (bulmercke): I first reported my personal observations concerning the events of that night here - on Thaivisa - on 14 April 2009 -

LINK:

At least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

QUOTE(bulmercke - posted 2009-04-14 03:48):"I was at the Urapong - Rama VI area earlier today and spoke to different red-shirt supporters on several occasions. They all said the same - that six of their people had been killed by the military in the Din Daeng area of BKK earlier in the day and that the army had taken away the corpses.

This was before the two recent fatalities that has been widely reported in the media.

HOWEVER - the media has reported that no-one died last night - early this morning.

Who to believe?

On this - I go with the people I spoke to personally.

They were very obviously up-set and emotional about what had happened last night."

Edited October 28, 2010 by bulmercke