Good Thai Grammar Book?

[HalfSquat]

I'm after a Thai grammar book to help me learn to speak Thai.

I can't read very well yet so will need transliteration.

I've seen this one in bookshops in Bangkok and from having a quick look it looks like what I'm after but is it any good?

Thai Reference Grammar: The Structure of Spoken Thai James Higbie Snea Thinsan

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thai-Reference-Grammar-Structure-Spoken/dp/9748304965/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1288279807&sr=8-9

Is there a better book?

I want it for things like learning how to use the word 'for' and its different versions in Thai.

Like samrap means 'for' in some situations but probably not in all.

This is samrap (for) you.

What is that samrap (for)?

How long have you lived here samrap (for)?

And also what order to put words in as well.

Thanks

[Scottish Thailander]

Yes, it is one of the regularly recommended titles by the more academic and fluent Thai learners on here and elsewhere. Other ones also recommended are

Thai: An Essential Grammar By David Smyth (of Linguaphone and Teach Yourself fame)

Thai Grammar by (Richard NOSS ( FSI related)

and what some refer to as the "bible", "Fundementals of the Thai Language" 5th Edition by Stuart Campbell and Chuan Shaweevongs

Both of the latter two can be found as ebooks for free online.

ST

Edited October 28, 2010 by Scottish Thailander

[HalfSquat]

Thanks.

Are you sure these can be found as free ebooks?

I can't see them about.

[AyG]

Smyth is probably best for beginners. It uses the Hass system of transliteration, which is probably familiar to you.

Higbie is more comprehensive, but uses a horrible transliteration system. I would suggest it's best for people who can already read Thai pretty fluently.

Both are readily available in Bangkok.

[Scottish Thailander]

Thanks.

Are you sure these can be found as free ebooks?

I can't see them about.

The last two can. Yes. Sure.

Sent you a private message.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Scottish Thailander

[rgs2001uk]

Thanks.

Are you sure these can be found as free ebooks?

I can't see them about.

Try here,

http://www.lyndonhill.com/FunThai/CONTENTS.html

[LazyYogi]

I can confirm that it's an excellent book for grammar.

Although it does use a rather odd transliteration method.

[LazyYogi]

By the way:

This is samrap (for) you. OK

What is that samrap (for)? OK

How long have you lived here samrap (for)? The word "for" doesn't translate in this case.

"khun aa-sǎi yùu thîi-nîi naan thâo-rài láeo"

you live/dwell here long how much? already

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry, another long post...

Realizing the above mentioned books are reference materials ONLY; I believe it's highly unlikely you're gonna either learn to speak thai from 'em or sit down and read 'em cover to cover. I will agree that, "Thai, An Essential Grammar" by David Smyth, and "Thai Reference Grammar; The Structure Of Spoken Thai", by James Higbie & Snea Thinsan are both incredible books to have.

(I also concur the transcription in the Higbie book is a little squirrelly, errr different from most, but once you figure it out, you're okay, in fact I use that one more than most).

Both of the books I have are dog-eared from use, and I refer to them often because they both offer good examples of the usage of a word or phrase in different contexts and this helps me out quite a lot.

Now as far as learning to speak thai, which is certainly a 'horse of a different color' from either thai sentence structure or learning to read ; I believe you'd be further ahead to get Benjawan Becker’s books; Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. If you get any of them, get the ones WITH the C/D's too!! The other ones are worthless unless you have a thai around who has the patience to go thru them with you. (It is my experience that few if any thai significant others have that depth of patience with their partners horrific mangling of the thai language early on) .

Go thru the first book again and again until you have it all down. Then get the next one. Even after book one and certainly during book two (intermediate) you could benefit from getting her "Speak Like a Thai" series of C/D's, as well as her new thai-engrish, engrish-thai p/c dictionary with audible pronunciation and a variety of ways to display thai words in english.

And before anyone asks; NO, I have no affiliation with the reigning 'queen of thai language for foreigners'; Benjawan Poomsan Becker or her publishing company. Although truth be told, she's probably done more to expose foreigners to the thai language than any other thai national I know of. ..

In regards to the rest of your post with your example sentences; a BIG stumbling block for foreigners is that we (as in ALL foreigners learning thai ) have major ‘mother language interference’ when we start learning. We feel the need to translate every english word into its corresponding thai word, maybe try a thai sentence order and spit that conglomeration of words out. Sadly, mostly for the thais we're tryin' to speak to; it all too often comes out as pure gibberish.

Just two of your examples; (And although I hate to disagree with the poster known as “LazyYogi” as I am by no wild stretch of the imagination a thai language pundit; I believe some of those sentence constructs are a little off). .

In any query, I'd look at the question word you're asking FIRST rather than the specific word 'for' and its usage in a sentence.

You also hafta realize that thais use the word (อย่างไร) 'yaang-rai' 'how' or 'in what way' many more times in their sentence constructs than we do in engrish; often in places where with engrish we'd always use (อะไร) 'a-rai' 'what'.

The sentence you use; "What is this for?" could be translated into something roughly like (forgive my hideous transliteration); 'nee tham yaang-rai'? The thai word 'for' either 'sam-rap' (สำหรับ) or 'pheuua' (เพื่อ) is not even in the sentence. In this case they use their word for 'do' (ทำ) 'tham' instead. Although I have had thais understand me when I have said; 'nee pheuua arai' (this for what?). Also note there is no word for 'is' in either sentence as it is implied using the words 'do', 'how' in the first sentence and 'for', 'what' in the second.

Another sentence you mention is "how long have you been here for?" Almost any run-of-the-mill thai would ask it "yuu thee mueang-thai nan ruu yang". It would translate directly to any level of native thai speaker as "how long have you lived in thailand?

Note that there is no word for “you” as the subject is understood to be whoever is being addressed and therefore left out. Also note this is more a colloquial question, and you could say “khun yuu thee mueang-thai nan thao-rai” although to me it sounds as fakey and/or overly formal-ish as LazyYogi's version. FWIW: in the MANY hundreds of times I’ve been asked by thais in every socio-economic niche of society; how long I’ve been here, not once has someone ever used the word aa-sai (อาศัย) instead they just use 'yuu' (อยู่).

Although you didn’t mention it, I thought this might be of interest too. I had a lively discussion with some foreign thai language students today over coffee about the thai usage of what I call ‘–ing’ words. In thai either (อยู่) ‘yuu’(added after) or (กำลัง) ‘gamlang’ (added before) a verb to denote an activity currently under way.

I mentioned that I have heard thais ‘yuu-ing' far more than I hear them ‘gamlang-ing’. This leads me to the conclusion, when it doubt it’s better to ‘yuu’ than gamlang’. Although I have found it is acceptable to ‘gamlang-verb-yuu’ if an activity has started in the past, is currently still under way and may continue for an indeterminate time in the future, lol.. Sorry, it was a lot funnier when we talked about it. Lost a lot on the written page.

I hope you can make heads or tails outta my engrish spelling for thai words ; really sorry about that. I don’t write karaoke thai with the cutesy symbols and all. . ...

And before someone thinks I'm pissin' on anyone's parade, I am relating ONLY my personal experiences in learning and conversing in this oh-so difficult language. If it works for you stick with it.

Edited October 30, 2010 by tod-daniels

[LazyYogi]

@tod-daniels

I agree my sentence is not something very natural sounding. It was more an attempt to translate as word-for-word as possible.

And I'd also agree that for the first two examples there are other ways to phrase the sentences without using "sam-rap" that might be more natural, just that grammatically it is possible to use "for" in the sense indicated.

[jamiesensei]

I found this incredible grammar book produced by Cambridge University Press :

http://www.amazon.com/Reference-Grammar-Thai-Grammars/dp/0521108675/

A Reference Grammar of Thai (Reference Grammars) [Paperback]

Shoichi Iwasaki (Author), Preeya Ingkaphirom (Author)

It is not for the faint hearted, it is written by 2 linguists but it really does a good job of breaking down the structure of the Thai Language for you. It uses linguistic terms but it explains what these mean too, so you get a very precise description of how bits of grammar work and what they mean.

Unfortunately this great work on the Thai language is not available in Thailand it seems, I searched everywhere for it here in CM and phone up one big bookshop in BKK too, I forget which one. Ordered it through Amazon in the end. I think it came to around 1,800 B with postage and packaging.

Edited October 31, 2010 by jamiesensei

[Scottish Thailander]

I found this incredible grammar book produced by Cambridge University Press :

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0521108675/

A Reference Grammar of Thai (Reference Grammars) [Paperback]

Shoichi Iwasaki (Author), Preeya Ingkaphirom (Author)

It is not for the faint hearted, it is written by 2 linguists but it really does a good job of breaking down the structure of the Thai Language for you. It uses linguistic terms but it explains what these mean too, so you get a very precise description of how bits of grammar work and what they mean.

Unfortunately this great work on the Thai language is not available in Thailand it seems, I searched everywhere for it here in CM and phone up one big bookshop in BKK too, I forget which one. Ordered it through Amazon in the end. I think it came to around 1,800 B with postage and packaging.

It is available now in Thailand. I have seen it in a few of the bigger bookshops in BKK. Not sure of the price or content as I did not have time to pick it up. Now you have recommeded it I will make a point of looking at it.

ST.

[DavidHouston]

See Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reference-Grammar-Thai-Grammars/dp/0521108675 or http://www.amazon.com/Reference-Grammar-Thai-Grammars/dp/0521108675/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288599246&sr=8-1

I found this incredible grammar book produced by Cambridge University Press :

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0521108675/

A Reference Grammar of Thai (Reference Grammars) [Paperback]

Shoichi Iwasaki (Author), Preeya Ingkaphirom (Author)

It is not for the faint hearted, it is written by 2 linguists but it really does a good job of breaking down the structure of the Thai Language for you. It uses linguistic terms but it explains what these mean too, so you get a very precise description of how bits of grammar work and what they mean.

Unfortunately this great work on the Thai language is not available in Thailand it seems, I searched everywhere for it here in CM and phone up one big bookshop in BKK too, I forget which one. Ordered it through Amazon in the end. I think it came to around 1,800 B with postage and packaging.

It is available now in Thailand. I have seen it in a few of the bigger bookshops in BKK. Not sure of the price or content as I did not have time to pick it up. Now you have recommeded it I will make a point of looking at it.

ST.

[HalfSquat]

Thanks people. Will have a look and see what I can see in the shops.

There is no amazon style website in Thailand is there?

[Scottish Thailander]

See Amazon: http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0521108675 or http://www.amazon.co...88599246&sr=8-1

I found this incredible grammar book produced by Cambridge University Press :

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0521108675/

A Reference Grammar of Thai (Reference Grammars) [Paperback]

Shoichi Iwasaki (Author), Preeya Ingkaphirom (Author)

It is not for the faint hearted, it is written by 2 linguists but it really does a good job of breaking down the structure of the Thai Language for you. It uses linguistic terms but it explains what these mean too, so you get a very precise description of how bits of grammar work and what they mean.

Unfortunately this great work on the Thai language is not available in Thailand it seems, I searched everywhere for it here in CM and phone up one big bookshop in BKK too, I forget which one. Ordered it through Amazon in the end. I think it came to around 1,800 B with postage and packaging.

It is available now in Thailand. I have seen it in a few of the bigger bookshops in BKK. Not sure of the price or content as I did not have time to pick it up. Now you have recommeded it I will make a point of looking at it.

ST.

Kinokuniya in Paragon has 2 copies. seen in other shops too.

ST.

.

[rsskga]

Old thread, but it comes up in search results, so... I'll post an update.

 

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