A Question About Poetry And Lyrics

[globalmenace]

This question is from a non-Thai writer.

Is it even possible to translate poems or lyrics from English to Thai that capture rhyme, meter, form, or any other elements that would be anything but laughable?

More than curious, I have an interest in communicating some well turned phases into something my teerak can understand and sigh about.

Does translation from English to Thai script work at all for poetry or lyric?

Thanks.

[klons]

The Thai Poets Society appears to think it can be done.

For example - Song- by Allen Ginsberg

http://www.thaipoetsociety.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=5d7577df176eae7c4a1966de31be3849&topic=2740.0

[meadish_sweetball]

Poetry is the most difficult form of text to translate. A poem where both rhyme, rhythm and meter are strictly observed would be a serious challenge to translate, but that does not mean it is impossible. I have seen some amazing translations of poetry.   I am still not attuned enough to Thai to be able to tell a decent attempt apart from a brilliant one. What I do know is that regardless of language, the task requires somebody who is skilled at poetry as it is an art onto itself; your average educated bilingual person who would otherwise be able to translate a piece of regular prose will not do.

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry this is long(ish); I hope it's of at least marginal value to you;

While I’ve never attempted any poetry, I can say translating thai songs into something resembling the rhythm, meter and especially rhyme in engrish is a tough frickin' slog.

I've got 30 or 40 thai rock songs from bands like; Sek Loso, Bird Thongchai, Big Ass, Body Slam, Potato, Micro, translated into something resembling coherent engrish. Some even follow the rhythm and to a lesser extent the meter, but no way shape or form the rhyme. (Then again few thai songs I've heard ever rhyme except during a repetitive chorus)

I’ve also tried (and failed dismally ) to translate several 'moronically simple' KISS songs into thai while trying to preserve the meter and verse structure.

Given the premise that most thai rock songs are all lyrically simplistic, (this is not a slam to thai rockers in any way ) as most rock songs in english are exactly the same; still trying to get them into engrish or from engrish to thai is sometimes fraught with peril.

Once you understand some basic thai language concepts;

*Subjects are left out if understood via context.

*Songs like poetry often use flowery words, phrases not spoken or heard in everyday speech.

*That personal pronouns in song and poetry morph into the more intimate เธอ, ฉัน and even the slightly impolite แก (when referring to competing lover stuck in the obligatory 'love triangle').

*As well as a few other things which I have noticed, it still is a tough row to hoe.

It is my opinion you'll need far more than a basic understanding of thai in regards to; vocabulary, thai sentence structure, and also a pretty good knowledge of 'felt' or 'emotive' thai words and/or phrases.

Good luck, if you can do it so a thai could understand it, my hat's off to you.

P/S; I've had enough trouble translating even simple American idioms, into thai and getting any worthwhile 'bang-4-the-baht' with the thai guys I hang out with. Even though the thai language has many, many idiomatic expressions and proverbs which can translate roughly into the corresponding American ones; the deal breaker often is wide disparity in common reference points; culturally, environmentally, and geographically. This can and often does throw a wrench in the gears of mutual understandability.

An example; In the US we have an old expression which goes; “All cats are grey in the dark.”. Meaning when you put out the lights even an ugly woman isn’t too bad to be with. I went over and over this in both thai and engrish with the guys I sit with (all who have a good understanding of english); first explaining the analogy of using cats instead of women, then how our perception of colors change in the dark, and finally the use of colors instead of bodily appearance. Now granted at the time we were in this lively discussion perhaps we'd imbibed a little too much of either Blend 285 or SangSom, but. .. Finally one guy shouted out in thai; นารีงามสรรพเมื่อดับเทียน (and immediately the light bulb went off for everyone there!) Now, I’d never heard and didn’t know the phrase. I had them write it down and then looked it up on thai-language dot com; only to find Glenn uses the cat’s idiom for the meaning of this thai phrase too!! He translates it as “all women are beautiful when you put out the candle”. Go figure, same meaning, different reference points ..

BTW: Here’s a link from thai-language dot com to some common Thai Proverbs and their engrish equivalents;

http://www.thai-language.com/id/589868

and

Thai Idiomatic Expressions;

http://www.thai-language.com/id/590027/

Maybe some of them are what you’re looking for when conversing with your significant thai other. ..