Divorce Questions

[oliver80]

Dear People of Thai knowledge.

I have a few questions as I proceed through my divorce in Thailand.

I beleive there is no such thing as alimony in Thai law, what does the other spouse have to do to get anything for herself, considering she in a University graduate at 30 years old and taking care of a 32 years old kid. I understand to pay child support, but where does one stand on an alimony claim. I I believe there in non in Thailand, please confirm.

I believe my ex to be is also responsible to support the child in question, so basically believe she should seek employment, is that a correct evaluation?

My attorneys advise the property in the home is locked in due to divorce filing, I believe this true for western world, but another Thai attorney said I am free too sell it in Thailand irrespctive of the divorce filing. Anyone any legal dealing with this.

Last issue, passport, I am obviously a forienger and my child only hold my nationality passport, she does not have a Thai yet, due lazy spoilt mother. The Thai spouse has this in her possesion, but it is from my country and issued on my birth right, do I have the right to request the court to have the passport returned to me, or held by my attorney, and that 2 parents written signatures can only release it.

Please, I need clear accurate advise, yes I do have attorneys, 3 actually, but am receiving conflicting info from them, I need clarification and justification for my actions, not to step up on myself.

Thank you

Regards

[sarahsbloke]

Anything acquired during your marriage is jointly owned and should be split 50/50 on divorce **.

If you have a child with the woman you are entitled to joint custody (if both living in Thailand) unless you voluntarily give this up on divorce, if you do give it up, it can't be regained at a later date.

Child custody is usually set at about 100bht a day, per child, there appears to be no enforcement.

But if she has the child, best to pay it now, in a way that is easily traced and tracked (not cash in her hand), it will look good in court.

The woman is entitled to no other money or ongoing payments from you.

Previous children she has had with other men are not your responsibility.

The passport belongs to the child, it should be kept with the child.

Parental child abduction breaks no law in Thailand.

The Thai court expect the woman to work to support herself (not an ex-husband).

** You say you have a property, if you purchased it in her name (in Thailand) you will most likely have already signed a form at the land office to say it is hers, and hers alone, and that on divorce you will make no claim upon the property.

Edited October 31, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[oliver80]

Sorry

The child is 2, not 32.......apprecaite more replies, thanx sarahsbloke.

One thing, the bank is about to reposses the house due to non payment, the property is inside, but the spouse does not communicate about nothing, slience, what is my standing, let it all go to the bank or sell or move it??

Thanx

[sarahsbloke]

Sorry

The child is 2, not 32.......apprecaite more replies, thanx sarahsbloke.

One thing, the bank is about to reposses the house due to non payment, the property is inside, but the spouse does not communicate about nothing, slience, what is my standing, let it all go to the bank or sell or move it??

Thanx

I would take the contents, if you paid for them (and if you have a key).

House repossession usually takes years rather than months ...

Are you sure it is about to be repossessed?

How do you know?

Whose name is the house in?

Whose name is on the loan?

Did you sign any papers on the loan (as guarantor maybe?)

[scott1999]

Sorry

The child is 2, not 32.......apprecaite more replies, thanx sarahsbloke.

One thing, the bank is about to reposses the house due to non payment, the property is inside, but the spouse does not communicate about nothing, slience, what is my standing, let it all go to the bank or sell or move it??

Thanx

hi oliver , welcome my world, if you check my thread out re my daughters abduction, there is some info in there that may help you, anyway hope we can pool info , from time to time ,

good luck

[Mario2008]

Indeed, there is no alimony in Thailand. (Might be different if you married abroad). Child support is for the child, but keep in mind that it is your child and also your responsibility. If you want you can pay certain costs directly yourself, such as for the school, instead of handing it to the mother.

Until the custody is settled I don't think there is not much you can do. She has as much rights to the passport as you, with you lacking the right to get the passport from here.

A Thai passport can only be applied for with the approval of both parents, unless one has sole custody.

[sarahsbloke]

If I may also add to the school costs question that Mario has raised.

School is free in Thailand, school dinner is also free (no requirement to use a private school).

Uniforms and books should be free but often aren't, I paid 4000bht for books, uniforms, shoes, this year (direct to the teacher who provided me with an itemised list)

Snack money is in the region of 20bht a day, but is included in the 100bht a day child support payment.

You wouldn't believe the number of white men happily paying non-existent school fees for their children and step-children.

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[MikeyIdea]

Indeed there is no alimony in Thailand (could still be granted in a separate process in your own country) and if money is something that the mother wants from you here in Thailand, then you should know that child alimony in Thailand is calculated using a formula and for a 2-year-old, it's around a hundred bath per day + not to forget, school and hospital fees are to be shared by the parents, not automatically paid by the farang father

I am not saying that you should pay as little as this, the child is yours and you have a great responsibility to help your child of course, I am just saying that you should be aware of it and point out where negotiations start. They start at peanuts and trade money for possession or other things you want wisely. You write that the mother takes care of the child, if you have no intention to take care of the child part of the time, then the power your money gives you means very little unfortunately. You must help provide for your childs future, that is your duty as father but what is your bargaining point?

The mother is required to put in her share to support her child in Thailand, the alimony that you pay is basically seen as half of what is needed she will not be allowed to lean on you for money to completely support her child in a Thai family court (unless you allow her to). Take a job

Passport: Mario2008 is very knowledgeable and absolutely correct, nothing you can do for the moment

Some additional information on what sarahsbloke writes about property bought during the marriage, the information regarding this comes from member gregb, I find him knowledgeable so I believe it correct

"** You say you have a property, if you purchased it in her name (in Thailand) you will most likely have already signed a form at the land office to say it is hers, and hers alone, and that on divorce you will make no claim upon the property."

Gregb confirms that you can still lay claim on the property if you can prove that the funds came from you from money you earned before the marriage. The paper you signed at the land office doesn't hold

I am not sure about the house, if the house is locked due to divorce filing, so should its contents be I would think.

What sarahsbloke writes about giving money to the teacher to buy books, uniform etc is a very good idea if communication between the parents has broken down or is strained.

Edit: double spacing removed

Edited November 1, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Mario2008]

(...)

Some additional information on what sarahsbloke writes about property bought during the marriage, the information regarding this comes from member gregb, I find him knowledgeable so I believe it correct

"** You say you have a property, if you purchased it in her name (in Thailand) you will most likely have already signed a form at the land office to say it is hers, and hers alone, and that on divorce you will make no claim upon the property."

Gregb confirms that you can still lay claim on the property if you can prove that the funds came from you from money you earned before the marriage. The paper you signed at the land office doesn't hold

(....)

That sounds very dubious to me. If land was bought with his money, other than as a gift, in her name, it would be by proxy and illegal. It could lead to the land being confiscated and prosecution.

But it might be possible to lay claim to halve of the value of the land, as the land was acquired during the marriage.

[mkawish]

If I may also add to the school costs question that Mario has raised.

School is free in Thailand, school dinner is also free (no requirement to use a private school).

Uniforms and books should be free but often aren't, I paid 4000bht for books, uniforms, shoes, this year (direct to the teacher who provided me with an itemised list)

Snack money is in the region of 20bht a day, but is included in the 100bht a day child support payment.

You wouldn't believe the number of white men happily paying non-existent school fees for their children and step-children.

Many really like to believe that 'school is free in Thailand'!

Many children going to the temple schools are required to pay 500THB each. Just this morning, two children were kept from class because their mother forgot to hand over the money to her children.

There was a little confrontation with the lady teacher questioning her sensibility. Since she won't back down and there was not time to march up to the principal to shake thing up, I paid their tuition fee.

As for my youngest child who was fortunate enough to score high enough to be selected into Chula College High School, the tuition paid last week before beginning of term was in excess of 8,000 THB and that was just for tuitions.

On the other hand, I also agreed with you wholeheartedly that many farangs have been scammed into paying many non-existent expenditures. Shame to the children's mothers.

As for oliver80, try to be generous just like when you were happily courting her, remember those happy moments, friend?

Now you have a two yr old, she is just beginning to call you--daddy, daddy.... and smiles at you innocently every time you come around....

Friend, be generous even if you know you are being taken. It won't hurt your life style, right? Just a little drain on your resources.

Think of it as a donation for the welfare of your daughter who in years to come would be proud to call you--DADDY and

proudly tells everyone who wants to listen that--that is my daddy who loves me and supports me!

Well, I also know many farangs who have not been at all willing to take that responsibility; but on the contrary, have chosen to fight for their rights and righteousness because they have been wronged and deceived. And they surely have their God given rights to fight to the very bitter end.

What I wish to implore you to ponder is--do you, Oliver, genuinely have the best interests of your daughter at the very center of your heart?

Just do whatever your tender heart tells you to do for your daughter's best interests, just forget her mom for now.

Best wishes, Oliver.

Edited November 1, 2010 by mkawish

[oliver80]

Thank you

I appreaciate the help, I will be spending around 2 weeks a month with my daughter (once the custody is cleared), but the court has already indicated it is a share share case and if she ws older I would have 100% parental control -this was not told to my wife though-only a judge to lawyer exchange!. I will provide everything she needs in those 2 weeks, I will just pay the mother for her food, when I am away. My daughter will get the best and as little change as possible and disruption to the life she knows.

My daughter is everything, and thats all I think about 24/7.

thanks you everyone

[MikeyIdea]

(...)

Some additional information on what sarahsbloke writes about property bought during the marriage, the information regarding this comes from member gregb, I find him knowledgeable so I believe it correct

"** You say you have a property, if you purchased it in her name (in Thailand) you will most likely have already signed a form at the land office to say it is hers, and hers alone, and that on divorce you will make no claim upon the property."

Gregb confirms that you can still lay claim on the property if you can prove that the funds came from you from money you earned before the marriage. The paper you signed at the land office doesn't hold

(....)

That sounds very dubious to me. If land was bought with his money, other than as a gift, in her name, it would be by proxy and illegal. It could lead to the land being confiscated and prosecution.

But it might be possible to lay claim to halve of the value of the land, as the land was acquired during the marriage.

I am not sure, all I can say is that gregb normally writes well and in a well-informed manner. I hope that we one day can confirm exactly how a court of law sees this.

The information comes from this post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/398055-help-i-dont-understand-thai-wife/page__p__3884868#entry3884868

You may have destroyed the chances of that meaning anything by buying house in her name (if she was married then you had to sign that house is considered "before marriage" and hers).

Actually, that paper you sign is irrelevant. It has no standing in a divorce settlement. The purpose of that is so that the government officers can show they did their duty by verifying the funds to purchase the land came from sin suan tua of the wife. If they can't verify this, they can not allow the registration. If the OP committed fraud, and signed the paper when the funds really came from funds that were sin suan tua of himself, then that is a matter that is completely irrelevant to the divorce.

All the OP needs is sufficient documentation to show he purchased the house, and it will be treated as his asset. He can't own it of course. It will need to be sold and the money given to him, but the salient point is the wife won't get it. That paper at the land office means nothing. That is why there was the big stink last year about farangs using their wives as nominees to buy land.

***

[Farma]

Regarding child support.

From personal experience both parties have to appear in court at least once during the case, lawyers do the rest.

The judges will call both parties before the bench and attempt to arbitrate a settlement agreement on asset split (50/50 of assets acquired during marriage), child support etc prior to proceeding with the case.

They prefered a child support lump sum payment rather than a monthly payment agreement. If no agreement is reached, the case will proceed with the court ruling on an amount, taking into account financial situations, child custody, asset split etc. This can then result in numerous appeals until either a final decision is reached or the case time limit (I believe 5 years) expires.

The divorce verdict will state the amount to be paid. This amount is then to be paid to the court who will pass it onto the other party. Be aware there are many ways to avoid payment so if you are awarded payment ensure you keep a close eye on the progress.

Once paid, the divorce verdict can then be taken to the umphur where a divorce certificate will be issued.

If you attend the Umphur on your own (preferably with your lawyer), the divorce certificate will state “by court order” in the signature block where the other party would normally sign. The details of the court order are printed on the back.

[mkawish]

Some additional information on what sarahsbloke writes about property bought during the marriage, the information regarding this comes from member gregb, I find him knowledgeable so I believe it correct

"** You say you have a property, if you purchased it in her name (in Thailand) you will most likely have already signed a form at the land office to say it is hers, and hers alone, and that on divorce you will make no claim upon the property."

Gregb confirms that you can still lay claim on the property if you can prove that the funds came from you from money you earned before the marriage. The paper you signed at the land office doesn't hold

(....)

That sounds very dubious to me. If land was bought with his money, other than as a gift, in her name, it would be by proxy and illegal. It could lead to the land being confiscated and prosecution.

But it might be possible to lay claim to halve of the value of the land, as the land was acquired during the marriage.

I am not sure, all I can say is that gregb normally writes well and in a well-informed manner. I hope that we one day can confirm exactly how a court of law sees this.

----------

GREGB

As far as I know, if any farang signs an official doc disavowing money or properties ownership, and that would be that.

Personally, would really like to see some recent court cases where properly signed and sealed doc in Thailand does not count in the court of law here.

Not that I am doubting your statement but just that I really like to read some cases myself.

Yes, even in Thai language would be alright. Thx gregb.

Edited November 2, 2010 by mkawish