Getting Someone Stopped At The Airport

[ruds]

Hello all,

someone recently rented a car from me and never paid for the last months rent, the deposit I took covers it but when I recovered the vehicle it had lots of damage to it, so consequently I am still out of pocket. I have the guys passport and wanted to know if there is anything that I can do to track him down or get him questioned when he leaves the country

Many thanks in advance

Ruds

[Spoonman]

Terrible situation.

How will the guy leave the country without his passport ??

Maybe contact his embassy as he might try the report it lost and get new travel docs routine.

[H2oDunc]

As far as I am aware you having possession of his passport could be an offence ? I know it is widely used as a deposit here but I do not know the legality of such a thing. I would just write it off as a lesson learned and take either a swipe of a credit card or a cash deposit next time. bad luck either way.

I know I never leave my passport as deposit for anything!

A friend who had a dispute with a guy in a similar situation won because the guy who rented him the bike had no company or work permit to do so so ended up in more trouble than he tried to cause my friend. not that I am implying you are not 100% legal of course!

Edited November 2, 2010 by H2oDunc

[ruds]

Sorry, I have a copy of his passport not his actual passport

[floridaguy]

Good luck. I tried to have a passport flagged last year. Perfectly within my legal right, as he was the MD of the company and had not paid my wages in over 2 months. This is a big no no, since the company was American and he was American and I am Thai. I lodged the complaint with the labor department. They flagged the passport (supposedly) and 2 months later he was back in Thailand with no problems. This was a jail-able offense, and much more money than your situation, and it was foreigner wronging a Thai (Thai ruk Thai!!), and still no luck stopping him from re-entering the country. But, I didn't have his passport, just a copy.

[TAWP]

Post a scan of the copy?

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be wrong...but what you have is a debt claim against him, which would be a civil case and not a legal claim. Now you may have every right to pursue that claim against him in a civil court for your compensation...but trying to stop him from traveling out of the country is wrong...you can't do that. There is no legal charge against him that the authorities can use to detain him. There is no criminal charge against him, and it is only a civil case, which would need to go through a civil court first to get a judgement for financial settlement against him BEFORE any authorities could take any action to detain him.

But like I said, I'm not a lawyer.

[Spoonman]

Just had another thought, is the vehicle not covered by insurance, surely paying the insurance excess is easier and cheaper than trying to pursue the guy.

Take it as a lesson learned, next time you rent it make it policy the rent is paid in advance and not in arrears.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Spoonman

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be wrong...but what you have is a debt claim against him, which would be a civil case and not a legal claim.

Where I come from not paying a hotel is called defrauding an innkeeper and is a criminal offense. I'm not sure about renting a car or about the law in Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be wrong...but what you have is a debt claim against him, which would be a civil case and not a legal claim.

Where I come from not paying a hotel is called defrauding an innkeeper and is a criminal offense. I'm not sure about renting a car or about the law in Thailand.

Isn't the non-payment event sort of like the recent Randy Quaid and his wife's fiasco? In their case they ended up in Canada claiming asylum and are in an immigration detention cell or something. The OP's dilemma begs the question of how is someone supposed to protect himself in these events? I know that at the rental car companies, they swipe the card and hold a deposit and they have a contract that allows them to keep on charging even when the car is returned if there is damage. For example, if I ding a Hertz vehicle, and even if I have collision damage coverage, the rental contract allows Hertz to charge for its loss of use for the time the vehicle is out of service while being repaired. That loss of use is not covered by the auto coverages extended by credit cards nor the legal liability endorsements for hired/rented vehicles one can get on a personal vehicle policy. In this case perhaps the best place to start is to file a claim for damages with the court. Until a claim is filed, I don't see how anyone can enforce anything in the absence of a rental car contract that sets out the rental obligations.

[SergeiY]

Good luck. I tried to have a passport flagged last year. Perfectly within my legal right, as he was the MD of the company and had not paid my wages in over 2 months. This is a big no no, since the company was American and he was American and I am Thai. I lodged the complaint with the labor department. They flagged the passport (supposedly) and 2 months later he was back in Thailand with no problems. This was a jail-able offense, and much more money than your situation, and it was foreigner wronging a Thai (Thai ruk Thai!!), and still no luck stopping him from re-entering the country. But, I didn't have his passport, just a copy.

Why should the immigration settle a problem between you and the company you worked for?

[Atmos]

I'd say you can do nothing.

Police/immigration could hardly detain/arrest someone on a non-criminal matter, I'm sure plenty of people come and go with far larger debts than your situation.

[Beetlejuice]

I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be wrong...but what you have is a debt claim against him, which would be a civil case and not a legal claim. Now you may have every right to pursue that claim against him in a civil court for your compensation...but trying to stop him from traveling out of the country is wrong...you can't do that. There is no legal charge against him that the authorities can use to detain him. There is no criminal charge against him, and it is only a civil case, which would need to go through a civil court first to get a judgement for financial settlement against him BEFORE any authorities could take any action to detain him.

But like I said, I'm not a lawyer.

You are absolutely right.

Perhaps those in the renting business should re-consider renting out to foreigners, charge higher deposits to cover the owner`s increased risks or use some sort of credit card system where the owner can charge the card for monies owed?

[Max2010]

Just had another thought, is the vehicle not covered by insurance, surely paying the insurance excess is easier and cheaper than trying to pursue the guy.

Take it as a lesson learned, next time you rent it make it policy the rent is paid in advance and not in arrears.

Good point. The couple of times l rented a car, l paid up front AND a damage surcharge that was returned on returning the ride.

In Japan, if you don't pay up, they just bring a Yakuza guy to break your face. End of the story.

Max2010

[farang000999]

You have lived in Thailand way too long if you actually think it's realistic that the Airport Immigration Police detain someone who owes you money for damaging the car you rented him. Until he is charged with a crime and is a wanted criminal, he is free to come and go as he pleases.

[Danlo]

You will get no help from the British Embassy or consulate....

[farang000999]

This isn't high profile enough to get help from anyone. Next time get a cash deposit or cc number.

[simon43]

Well, I disagree with posters who say that immigration will not help in this type of incident, although it is possibly too late in your case.

When I was living in Phuket at my hotel, on 3 occasions customers 'skipped' paying the money for their room and 'hot-footed' to the airport 600 meters away. On each occasion, I had a leisurely cup of coffee and then telephoned the immigration office at the airport, with details of the passport and the amount due on the bill. On each occasion, the person was stopped from boarding their plane by immigration (emigration!), until I could come to the airport with my hotel invoice and collect the sum owed. On all these occasions, I needed to finish my coffee first and alas - the person not only had to pay the money owed to me, but also missed their plane.

Som Nam Na I say. Do not cheat someone who has given you a service/product.

Interestingly, on each occasion, the same nationality was involved

Simon

Edited November 3, 2010 by simon43

[floridaguy]

Good luck. I tried to have a passport flagged last year. Perfectly within my legal right, as he was the MD of the company and had not paid my wages in over 2 months. This is a big no no, since the company was American and he was American and I am Thai. I lodged the complaint with the labor department. They flagged the passport (supposedly) and 2 months later he was back in Thailand with no problems. This was a jail-able offense, and much more money than your situation, and it was foreigner wronging a Thai (Thai ruk Thai!!), and still no luck stopping him from re-entering the country. But, I didn't have his passport, just a copy.

Why should the immigration settle a problem between you and the company you worked for?

The Labor Department representative said that it is fairly standard in these types of situations. This was not something I asked for, it was something she said the Labor Dept does.

[h90]

Well, I disagree with posters who say that immigration will not help in this type of incident, although it is possibly too late in your case.

When I was living in Phuket at my hotel, on 3 occasions customers 'skipped' paying the money for their room and 'hot-footed' to the airport 600 meters away. On each occasion, I had a leisurely cup of coffee and then telephoned the immigration office at the airport, with details of the passport and the amount due on the bill. On each occasion, the person was stopped from boarding their plane by immigration (emigration!), until I could come to the airport with my hotel invoice and collect the sum owed. On all these occasions, I needed to finish my coffee first and alas - the person not only had to pay the money owed to me, but also missed their plane.

Som Nam Na I say. Do not cheat someone who has given you a service/product.

Interestingly, on each occasion, the same nationality was involved

Simon

hehehe, seems there is still fairness in this world.

[h90]

Well, I disagree with posters who say that immigration will not help in this type of incident, although it is possibly too late in your case.

When I was living in Phuket at my hotel, on 3 occasions customers 'skipped' paying the money for their room and 'hot-footed' to the airport 600 meters away. On each occasion, I had a leisurely cup of coffee and then telephoned the immigration office at the airport, with details of the passport and the amount due on the bill. On each occasion, the person was stopped from boarding their plane by immigration (emigration!), until I could come to the airport with my hotel invoice and collect the sum owed. On all these occasions, I needed to finish my coffee first and alas - the person not only had to pay the money owed to me, but also missed their plane.

Som Nam Na I say. Do not cheat someone who has given you a service/product.

Interestingly, on each occasion, the same nationality was involved

Simon

Can you tell me which nationality? Or better PM it? (I hope they weren't Austrians )

[floridaguy]

I'm not a lawyer, so I could easily be wrong...but what you have is a debt claim against him, which would be a civil case and not a legal claim.

Where I come from not paying a hotel is called defrauding an innkeeper and is a criminal offense. I'm not sure about renting a car or about the law in Thailand.

Skipping out on a debt in Thailand is NOT a criminal offence, merely civil. The police cannot detain or arrest someone for this unless so ordered by a court. I have 3 first hand accounts for this. In all cases, the police could do nothing without a court order.

[PattayaParent]

Good luck. I tried to have a passport flagged last year. Perfectly within my legal right, as he was the MD of the company and had not paid my wages in over 2 months. This is a big no no, since the company was American and he was American and I am Thai. I lodged the complaint with the labor department. They flagged the passport (supposedly) and 2 months later he was back in Thailand with no problems. This was a jail-able offense, and much more money than your situation, and it was foreigner wronging a Thai (Thai ruk Thai!!), and still no luck stopping him from re-entering the country. But, I didn't have his passport, just a copy.

Surely him being back in country is an advantage as now you can file a case against him in the labour court?

[Soutpeel]

Skipping out on a debt in Thailand is NOT a criminal offence, merely civil. The police cannot detain or arrest someone for this unless so ordered by a court. I have 3 first hand accounts for this. In all cases, the police could do nothing without a court order.

Unless of course the person who is looking for his money offers the BiB an "incentive" to get his money back, and I can assure you it will not need a court order....

and actually in terms of my interpretation this case is not a "debt" which hasnt been honoured....this is actually" theft", services rendered and no payment received, same as skipping without paying a hotel bill, theses are "criminal" offenses IMHO.

[farang000999]

Well, I disagree with posters who say that immigration will not help in this type of incident, although it is possibly too late in your case.

When I was living in Phuket at my hotel, on 3 occasions customers 'skipped' paying the money for their room and 'hot-footed' to the airport 600 meters away. On each occasion, I had a leisurely cup of coffee and then telephoned the immigration office at the airport, with details of the passport and the amount due on the bill. On each occasion, the person was stopped from boarding their plane by immigration (emigration!), until I could come to the airport with my hotel invoice and collect the sum owed. On all these occasions, I needed to finish my coffee first and alas - the person not only had to pay the money owed to me, but also missed their plane.

Som Nam Na I say. Do not cheat someone who has given you a service/product.

Interestingly, on each occasion, the same nationality was involved

Simon

Well this a country where Airports get seized and youtube gets banned so nothing surprises me.

Edited November 3, 2010 by farang000999

[MrRichard2009]

Didn't you figure this would happen someday ? It's a loss, happens in business all the time. That's what insurance is for.

[IMA_FARANG]

Regarding my original post...I've been in Thailand long enough to know that it is certainly possible to know the right person to be able get someone stopped at the airport...especially if you do that person a "favor"....but what I said was that the immigtation had no legal right as far as I could see to stop someone without some court or police order to detain him.

But we all know "This is Thailand",don't we.

[ilyelol]

You are renting a car without proper insurance and permits to rent a car

they should detain you.

[JUDAS]

You are renting a car without proper insurance and permits to rent a car

they should detain you.

And how exactly do you know that?

[sirineou]

First let me say that I am sorry about your situation, I know how upsetting it must be.

second, I am not a lawyer and I could be wrong, BUT!

there is always a but

What you have is an allegation of wrong doing, his opinion might be different.

Imagine the confusion generated, if anyone who thought some one else did them wrong, could flag their Passport and prevent them from travel.

The first step is to file a claim against him with the appropriate agency.If your allegation is substantiated and you win a claim against this individual, then you can attempt to collect, but only to the extent of the claim awarded to you, I dont believe that suspension of some ones Travel rights will be with in the scope of your award.

also as some one else has correctly already said, you must conciser the fact that you might not have the right, proper licences, and insurance, to rent your vehicle,and if you do, did you collect the proper fees, and pay the proper taxes? If you attempt to collect on an illegal conducted business transaction you might find your self in a lot of trouble.

Any way, good luck, and sorry about your troubles.