Thai Police Injustice

[neverback]

Hi guys,

I just would like to know your opinion on my first "real" encounter with Thai police.

A week ago, my wife's mother and her friend with a 2 y.o. child were hit by a car,while driving on motorbike. A woman,who was driving a car,after hitting my mopther-in-law's motorbike had swirled out of control, got onto the oncoming traffic and hit another moterbike, killing one person and injuring another. My GF's mom went to a hospital right away,thanks God no serious injuries, however some serious injury to the arm and and leg muscles. The X-ray has not revealed any broken bone toher and her friend.

The main part.

At first, police told us that they will contact us as soon as the dead person will be put to fire.

Second, by coincidense we met a polioce officer on the way home and he had told us to come today and talk with a driver of the car about the compensation.

When we got to a police precinct,there was a guy from a car insurance company waiting to talk to us.

The result of this conversation : insurance compoany will fix a motorbike and pay 2000 Bht for my GF's mom and 1000 Bht for her friend with a child. We have been asking for 15000 Bht for 3 persons plus fixing the motorbike (which will run about 5000-1000 Bht).

The family of a person who died were asking for 1 million Bht.

The Insurance has rejected our offer .

THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: the police has told us that a girl,who commited an accident,by injuring 4 people and killing one, will not go to kail ( basically, she will walk free). Ofcourse,she had put 200000 Bht bail and paid 10000Bht for a funeral procedure. I assume, the police has gotten a good chunk money from that girl.

Some of my friends have suggested to contact the Attorney General of the Province were we live in and a prosecutor, cause obviously the case will be closed promptly by a local police,without prosecuting and rendering a verdict by a judge. That part has stunned me the most.

At the beginning, i wanted to contact a lawyer, but don't know if deal worth it and how much compensation we can get.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

[MrRichard2009]

You need to negotiate a better settlement is all ........ Not every bad accident needs to result in someone going to jail especially in Thailand. I really don't see the police corruption you speak of. They are just middle men, if your really unhappy that's what courts are for, but just because your unhappy at the first stage of settlement doesn't mean the police are being corrupt. As far as your story goes all they have done so far is to allow the parties involved to settle things in Thai style. That's not corruption that's the Thai way. But you can go to court if you want to but for 15K I doubt you will be any better off in the end.

[Kwasaki]

Welcome to Thailand Matey, watch your back, No.1 insurance is a must if you don't want to get screwed.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Kwasaki

[slapout]

Not sure why you are involved in the settlement, but so be it. If the motorbike is repaired, the riders and driver doctor/hospital bills are taken care of, what more is required? No lost ability was mentioned nor work so I guess life has gone on as normal. The payment to the person who was killed has no bearing on your settlement.

[scorecard]

Not sure why you are involved in the settlement, but so be it. If the motorbike is repaired, the riders and driver doctor/hospital bills are taken care of, what more is required? No lost ability was mentioned nor work so I guess life has gone on as normal. The payment to the person who was killed has no bearing on your settlement.

Sorry but I think your attitude is rather cold, surely these people have a right to some form of compensation for the emotional stress etc., that this has caused, and surely the driver should be punished. You say: ".... I guess life has gone on as normal. ....". How can life just go on as normal after being injured in such an accident? These people are human beings not machines that you fix and just restart.

If your child was involved in such an accident I would hope you might be a little more concerned and be watching very carefully for the psychological scars now with the child.

If your wife was injured by in such an accident I guess you say to your wife:

- Let's check, still 2 arms and 2 legs, OK, forget about it, get on with your work.

Edited November 4, 2010 by scorecard

[dominique355]

I miss one point: Who's fault was it? The car driver's or the motorbike drivers or a third person?

I know that under Thai law civil responsibility lays with the car driver, unless the motorbike driver has been grossly negligent. We don't know what happened here.

Whether or not the car driver will be prosecuted under penal law and put in prison, is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with civil liability.

[Loz]

I think someone needs to talk to the police on your family's behalf. Maybe they need to ask for 20k and accidently lose 5k on the way out of the station as they pass a particularly helpful ocifer.

Thai style?

[geriatrickid]

If you want criminal charges, then there has to be sufficient evidence to show that a crime occurred. Did a crime occur? Was there vehicular manslaughter? Was the driver impaired? If the collision was the result of poor driving skills or even the driver hitting debris and losing control, just what would be achieved? You want punishment, ok, but what is the punishment to address? If your child trips and falls onto a table breaking it, do you punish the child?

If you want criminal charges, then why were two women riding a motorbike with an infant? I bet none of them was wearing a helmet. The mother of the child should be charged with child abuse. One of the women was holding the child in one arm while hanging pillion, right? Brilliant.

See, it works both ways.

Edited November 4, 2010 by geriatrickid

[taninthai]

Why would you want the driver to go to jail if they were drunk yes but otherwise they pay compensation and have to live with the fact they killed someone in a accident hopefully this would make them a better driver in the future

[neverback]

Thanks for your replies fellows,

Please, let me clarify a situation with the accident.

It was determined by police that the accident was caused by a driver of a car.

As far as some individuals have suggested to abandon this issue, i would like to explain that my GF's mom until now feels a pain in her leg,and who knows if thare won't be any problems in future.

If some people want let this girl off the hook easy and go on,perhaps,another road-slaughter,then please give me your address and i will send her to you.And then, you let her go without beign punished.

Besides, the driver of a car haslied to us that it is not her car. However, it is her car in a police report.

[Kilgore Trout]

Not sure why you are involved in the settlement, but so be it. If the motorbike is repaired, the riders and driver doctor/hospital bills are taken care of, what more is required? No lost ability was mentioned nor work so I guess life has gone on as normal. The payment to the person who was killed has no bearing on your settlement.

Sorry but I think your attitude is rather cold, surely these people have a right to some form of compensation for the emotional stress etc., that this has caused, and surely the driver should be punished. You say: ".... I guess life has gone on as normal. ....". How can life just go on as normal after being injured in such an accident? These people are human beings not machines that you fix and just restart.

If your child was involved in such an accident I would hope you might be a little more concerned and be watching very carefully for the psychological scars now with the child.

If your wife was injured by in such an accident I guess you say to your wife:

- Let's check, still 2 arms and 2 legs, OK, forget about it, get on with your work.

Think you are being a bit naive; western rules don't apply here and you cannot claim "emotional distress"

For the most part you are getting a pretty good deal considering many of the horror stories I have heard about and/or witnessed first hand. You can try for a little better maybe, but I would advise shutting up and accepting the way of life here or take your child and go home.

[mca]

It would be helpful if the OP gave details of what led to the accident to maybe warrant a custodial sentence.

[morphious]

TIT

[chuang]

I think three persons riding a motorcycle is an offence...

[neverback]

Not sure why you are involved in the settlement, but so be it. If the motorbike is repaired, the riders and driver doctor/hospital bills are taken care of, what more is required? No lost ability was mentioned nor work so I guess life has gone on as normal. The payment to the person who was killed has no bearing on your settlement.

Sorry but I think your attitude is rather cold, surely these people have a right to some form of compensation for the emotional stress etc., that this has caused, and surely the driver should be punished. You say: ".... I guess life has gone on as normal. ....". How can life just go on as normal after being injured in such an accident? These people are human beings not machines that you fix and just restart.

If your child was involved in such an accident I would hope you might be a little more concerned and be watching very carefully for the psychological scars now with the child.

If your wife was injured by in such an accident I guess you say to your wife:

- Let's check, still 2 arms and 2 legs, OK, forget about it, get on with your work.

Think you are being a bit naive; western rules don't apply here and you cannot claim "emotional distress"

For the most part you are getting a pretty good deal considering many of the horror stories I have heard about and/or witnessed first hand. You can try for a little better maybe, but I would advise shutting up and accepting the way of life here or take your child and go home.

Well, thanks for advice.

As far as i understood, you prefer to live in a dog house than to speak up and execute your rights.

Regarding "shutting up", I can shut you up,if you wish, in my country or in Thailand. If you are used to abuse,by beign shut up by someone,don't suggest to follow your attitude to other folks. The reason, people don't know know the laws, in Thailand, and let Insurance companies dictate the rules doesn't mean that everyone should follow them. Your body doesn't hurt,right ? Thanks God you can type a nonsense on your computer,cause you have not beign in a severe accident and had your hands broken. Don't disregard the laws of Thailand either.

I've just contacted a lawyer,and he said that the compensation of 1500 Bht sounds ridiculous.

It should be clear to everyone that people can't go on a road-rage, without beign prosecuted.

I don't want thius person go to jail, but the best way to punish her is to hit her pocket. People tend to be more attentive and humble,once they lose a lot of money.

This girl has clearly stated that she even will not sell her car,in ordr to compensate the victim's family for a loss.

[slapout]

You/we as farang have few rights in Thailand. Yes legally we stand with the rest of the population, but practically we can and do see some interpretation of the law that does not meet our sense of justice.

Sorry if some perceive my comments as cold, as I can be a caring person but I am also a realist. As pointed out by the op the vehicle is insured and they/he/someone is not happy with the proposed settlement. The Insurance company is usually the one making the proposal, as they are the first line of defense for the driver/owner of the vehicle that is where the you needs to start. If the death involved a 1,000,000 settlement/proposal then the medical liability is more than offered. Any attorney who would make a statement about deserved/normal payment without a victims/doctors/police/ etc consolation would ring alarm bells for me.

As far as you proposal for shutting anyone who give advice which was sought by yourself, you may want to rethink your mindset. Insurance companies the world over do what they feel they can get away with as do the legal beagles. The problem you shall find is the experience is heavily focused in the formers playpen.

If you can locate a Gary Spence type lawyer (insurance companies are fair game) in this country you could probably live off your referral fees. Until then your apparent vendetta against the driver appears misplaced, in my humble opinion.

[Kilgore Trout]

Not sure why you are involved in the settlement, but so be it. If the motorbike is repaired, the riders and driver doctor/hospital bills are taken care of, what more is required? No lost ability was mentioned nor work so I guess life has gone on as normal. The payment to the person who was killed has no bearing on your settlement.

Sorry but I think your attitude is rather cold, surely these people have a right to some form of compensation for the emotional stress etc., that this has caused, and surely the driver should be punished. You say: ".... I guess life has gone on as normal. ....". How can life just go on as normal after being injured in such an accident? These people are human beings not machines that you fix and just restart.

If your child was involved in such an accident I would hope you might be a little more concerned and be watching very carefully for the psychological scars now with the child.

If your wife was injured by in such an accident I guess you say to your wife:

- Let's check, still 2 arms and 2 legs, OK, forget about it, get on with your work.

Think you are being a bit naive; western rules don't apply here and you cannot claim "emotional distress"

For the most part you are getting a pretty good deal considering many of the horror stories I have heard about and/or witnessed first hand. You can try for a little better maybe, but I would advise shutting up and accepting the way of life here or take your child and go home.

Well, thanks for advice.

As far as i understood, you prefer to live in a dog house than to speak up and execute your rights.

Regarding "shutting up", I can shut you up,if you wish, in my country or in Thailand. If you are used to abuse,by beign shut up by someone,don't suggest to follow your attitude to other folks. The reason, people don't know know the laws, in Thailand, and let Insurance companies dictate the rules doesn't mean that everyone should follow them. Your body doesn't hurt,right ? Thanks God you can type a nonsense on your computer,cause you have not beign in a severe accident and had your hands broken. Don't disregard the laws of Thailand either.

I've just contacted a lawyer,and he said that the compensation of 1500 Bht sounds ridiculous.

It should be clear to everyone that people can't go on a road-rage, without beign prosecuted.

I don't want thius person go to jail, but the best way to punish her is to hit her pocket. People tend to be more attentive and humble,once they lose a lot of money.

This girl has clearly stated that she even will not sell her car,in ordr to compensate the victim's family for a loss.

I do wish for you to "shut me up," please try.

Your ramblings make you sound more green and naive than I thought at first. Good luck with the lawyer; you may get a bit more compensation if you are lucky, on the other hand just wait to see what will happen if you push this Thai person into a corner (you better hope she doesn't have connections) especially when she knows there is a "farang" involved.

As another poster said; 3 people on a motorbike is illegal in and of itself so if you are going to pull the moral high ground here I suggest you follow the rule of law itself. Sounds like the rider of said motorcycle has little regard for the life or safety of the children anyhow just by being on a motorbike first of all and riding in an extremely unsafe manner (3 people) second.

Finally, when you come on the forum crying "police injustice" with a story like this you better accept some criticism and sarcasm when compared to the real police injustices which occur everyday.

I suggest you learn more about the day to day goings on here and get a bit more savvy with regard to Thai culture and the mindset here; otherwise take off, hoser

[dominique355]

If you want criminal charges, then there has to be sufficient evidence to show that a crime occurred. Did a crime occur? Was there vehicular manslaughter? Was the driver impaired? If the collision was the result of poor driving skills or even the driver hitting debris and losing control, just what would be achieved? You want punishment, ok, but what is the punishment to address? If your child trips and falls onto a table breaking it, do you punish the child?

If you want criminal charges, then why were two women riding a motorbike with an infant? I bet none of them was wearing a helmet. The mother of the child should be charged with child abuse. One of the women was holding the child in one arm while hanging pillion, right? Brilliant.

See, it works both ways.

Did a crime occur? Yes indeed.

Homicide, possibly by negligence.

Bodily injury, possible caused by negligence

Damage to property, also caused by negligence

These are all crimes in the sense of penal law, but no private person can request a punishment for that. That's reserved to the state (DA etc). A private person can only claim compensation for damages suffered if there is a direct relationship of cause and effect between the damage and the action of the third person.

The notion of "punitive damages" is (I believe) exclusive to the USA and IMO confuses the boundaries between public law an private law. One should only be able to claim compensation for damages actually suffered. Damage suffered because of one's own stupidity cannot be claimed. This includes measure imposed by the law to reduce the risk of damages (wearing a helmet, 2 people max on a motorbike etc).

Edited November 4, 2010 by dominique355

[Berkshire]

You need to negotiate a better settlement is all ........ Not every bad accident needs to result in someone going to jail especially in Thailand. I really don't see the police corruption you speak of. They are just middle men, if your really unhappy that's what courts are for, but just because your unhappy at the first stage of settlement doesn't mean the police are being corrupt. As far as your story goes all they have done so far is to allow the parties involved to settle things in Thai style. That's not corruption that's the Thai way. But you can go to court if you want to but for 15K I doubt you will be any better off in the end.

I agree with the above and several other readers here as I don't see anything resembling police corruption or "injustice." The OP is upset because his in-laws didn't get as much money as they think they're entitled to. That's really it, isn't it? It's about money, but it really isn't about the police. As for insurance companies, their job is to pay as little as necessary. Families of the injured or deceased will always ask for the maximum possible, but in the end, will take whatever they can get. This is standard negotiations the world over. Don't get on the police just because your family is not getting as much as you'd like.

[Loz]

don't try and shut him up. i've seen his hand bag. its bigger than yours! ladies please! stick to the facts, ma'am just the facts,

[onnut]

I would let your family sort it out Thai style. no point in you getting involved because they will not want to pay anything if a farang is involved.

dont push the women into the corner, because she could become vindictive and ask a favour from her cop friend she no doubt has. again, let your family deal with her Thai style!

even if you speak Thai better than the locals and you have lived here years and years, do not go and try to speak to the police yourself. again, let you Thai family do it Thai style! anyhow the police will probably end up taking money off you for something. just dont get involved. the best thing you can do though, is just listen to your family when they moan about it and be suportive to them.

[onnut]

Agree, l remember the guy that was trying to be screwed for 14,000,000bht in LOS for a road accident. Do we know what happened with that one.

Yes, good point, that was a bad one. does anybody have a link to that case. I would like to know if the guy left Thailand in the end?

[neverback]

I am back with the end of a story.

As an outcome of that accident, my wife's mother received 10K Bht from a car insurance company,plus they fixed a broken motorbike. And my wife's cousing received 3K Bht,(she had only few scratches).

[zzaa09]

Welcome to Thailand Matey, watch your back, No.1 insurance is a must if you don't want to get screwed.

...and that's not always a solid guarantee.

[jdinasia]

I am back with the end of a story.

As an outcome of that accident, my wife's mother received 10K Bht from a car insurance company,plus they fixed a broken motorbike. And my wife's cousing received 3K Bht,(she had only few scratches).

Yet, there is still no sign of Thai police injustice in the story you have told. There was an accident and the insurance company is paying. Pretty standard results for an accident.

Scorecard is operating on assumptions that are not valid in Thailand but would be in the US (and probably other places, and gk is making assumptions that were not stated at all.

The penalty for causing the accident etc is dependent (as gk correctly pointed out) on the situation. The police determined fault (who's insurance pays) and apparently didn't do anything else. The first rule of driving/riding in Thailand is "Call YOUR insurance company."

[TheLaughingMan]

Neverback, you have no idea what country you are in. You need to educate yourself before coming on here and getting angry at people trying to explain the reality to you. You truly are completely and utterly naive.

Son of a military father and ex Miss Thailand mother went on a road rage and MUDERED an innocent woman in front of scores of witnesses by gunning his car into a crowd of people because they made him angry, he never was actually punished. Neither was the father who immediately started threatening all the witnesses if they talked about it.

16 year old girl killed what 9 people recently? Not even legal age to drive and she will not be punished even with all those deaths at her hands. Not car related but the sons of a powerful politician murdered a police officer in a disco in front of many witnesses, not only were the never punished for this but they almost were allowed to become politicians themselves!

This is the country you live in, a land of absolutely no justice or legal morality. A land where money and connections can give you a licence to murder with impunity in front of a hundred witnesses. This is THAILAND.

And you complained over a few thousand baht and felt indignant over that.... silly fool.

[onlycw]

One question is whether a guilty car driver can make this "problem" go away by paying off the Police.

And how much different would the outcome be if such a driver would not pay the BiB?

There was a horrendous accident in Pathumthani with a white Porsche Cayenne cutting a Lao woman

in half. It will be interesting to see how this investigation evolves.

Seems the car was not stolen & jump started. And insane speed was involved. Let's see how tough the Police

is on the rich folks...

BTW, what happened to the under age girl who caused 9 people to die? She was only charged with driving without

a license. The Police collected 500 Baht and let her go! Makes one wonder...

[whybother]

...

BTW, what happened to the under age girl who caused 9 people to die? She was only charged with driving without

a license. The Police collected 500 Baht and let her go! Makes one wonder...

She has been charged with reckless driving and the court case is currently postponed.

[needforspeed]

Sorry but I think your attitude is rather cold, surely these people have a right to some form of compensation for the emotional stress etc., that this has caused, and surely the driver should be punished. You say: ".... I guess life has gone on as normal. ....". How can life just go on as normal after being injured in such an accident? These people are human beings not machines that you fix and just restart.

If your child was involved in such an accident I would hope you might be a little more concerned and be watching very carefully for the psychological scars now with the child.

If your wife was injured by in such an accident I guess you say to your wife:

- Let's check, still 2 arms and 2 legs, OK, forget about it, get on with your work.

Think you are being a bit naive; western rules don't apply here and you cannot claim "emotional distress"

For the most part you are getting a pretty good deal considering many of the horror stories I have heard about and/or witnessed first hand. You can try for a little better maybe, but I would advise shutting up and accepting the way of life here or take your child and go home.

Well, thanks for advice.

As far as i understood, you prefer to live in a dog house than to speak up and execute your rights.

Regarding "shutting up", I can shut you up,if you wish, in my country or in Thailand. If you are used to abuse,by beign shut up by someone,don't suggest to follow your attitude to other folks. The reason, people don't know know the laws, in Thailand, and let Insurance companies dictate the rules doesn't mean that everyone should follow them. Your body doesn't hurt,right ? Thanks God you can type a nonsense on your computer,cause you have not beign in a severe accident and had your hands broken. Don't disregard the laws of Thailand either.

I've just contacted a lawyer,and he said that the compensation of 1500 Bht sounds ridiculous.

It should be clear to everyone that people can't go on a road-rage, without beign prosecuted.

I don't want thius person go to jail, but the best way to punish her is to hit her pocket. People tend to be more attentive and humble,once they lose a lot of money.

This girl has clearly stated that she even will not sell her car,in ordr to compensate the victim's family for a loss.

I do wish for you to "shut me up," please try.

Your ramblings make you sound more green and naive than I thought at first. Good luck with the lawyer; you may get a bit more compensation if you are lucky, on the other hand just wait to see what will happen if you push this Thai person into a corner (you better hope she doesn't have connections) especially when she knows there is a "farang" involved.

As another poster said; 3 people on a motorbike is illegal in and of itself so if you are going to pull the moral high ground here I suggest you follow the rule of law itself. Sounds like the rider of said motorcycle has little regard for the life or safety of the children anyhow just by being on a motorbike first of all and riding in an extremely unsafe manner (3 people) second.

Finally, when you come on the forum crying "police injustice" with a story like this you better accept some criticism and sarcasm when compared to the real police injustices which occur everyday.

I suggest you learn more about the day to day goings on here and get a bit more savvy with regard to Thai culture and the mindset here; otherwise take off, hoser

I agree, with a lawyer you going to end up with nothing accept payment to make to your lawyer.

Accept the amont paid for the damage you have and leave it there.

A well know Thai business man told me after i had some legal issues with my company.

"It doenst matter what you do, it only matter who you know"

So dont look on this problem with your farang glasses on.

Good luck

Edited March 27, 2011 by needforspeed

[mstribling]

I'm sure the mom will be well compensated from here on out since she cannot work and has all if this emotional distress. No feeling in her legs etc etc.

Of course you'll be doing the settling.

2 arms? Check. 2 legs? Check.

A Thai man would have put her ass back to work and then take her money for some whisky.

Your trippin'