I've only just started contributing to the "I drink too much forum" and anyone who reads my posts will probably see I don't have a great deal of sympathy for people who claim they are "alcoholics". I think the wikopeadia definition of alcoholism is far more honest than the AAs.

I cant help thinking that the arguments a child uses for his boredom are the same arguments alcoholics use for their drinking habits.

"Theres nothing to do"

"Nothing is important enough to me"

"I don't see the point"

"What can I do?"

"I don't want to do"

"Can't be bothered"

"I'm bored"

"Why should I?"

"I want to forget"

The whole spirit of the language is to either find excuses not to act or excuses to carry on as they are. Exactly the same as the child who professes he is bored. That there is a physcological pre disposition to a drinking problem I have absolutely no doubt. That it's a disease , well depends doesnt it? If you believe depression is a disease, then your likely to believe alcoholism is too. Both are entirely curable but only by doing the work on yourself, becuase it is yourself that is the problem (doesnt sound like a disease does it then?).

As adults others may be able to help, cognative therapy can be good, but often if you haven't figured it out for yourself before adolescence, then your ability to learn especially in an emotional sense is becoming much diminished by the year after the that.

I don't think so is my response to the title of your thread.

Many alcoholics are very busy people, I have known Doctors, Lawyers, Magistrates etc that are alcoholics.

I would say however that when people retire and move to sunny climes like LOS that the chances of drinking to alleviate boredom are greater, but it's not a rule of thumb that people become alcoholics out of boredom IMHO, but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.

I drink therefore I am.........interesting concept...

I think there is certainly an opposite type of drinking to your theory, ie reward and celebrate scenario, I have lost count of the number of 'excuses' to consume alcohol that we thought up in a reward and celebrate work environment.......but also think of the natural everyday scenario of just having a relaxing G & T after work.....to relax.....that turns into a couple.....then the amount of alcohol consumed at weddings for instance

My personal view is, the widely accepted importance attributed to alcohol at social gatherings supplies the introdutory element which then progresses to being an alcoholic

None of the above could be described as boredom.......however take an unemployed man.....his drinking could well fit into your concept of boredom initiating the need for alcohol

So I would agree with ThaiPauly in general I do not feel your concept applies.....but to certain groups would be applicable.......certainly I see the socialising of the farang in Thailand often revolving around alcohol.

I'm sitting at home, doing nothing, on say a Friday night, the Mrs has gone to bed or is watching some load of tripe on TV, and I am bored......... so I pick up the phone:

"Hi Mark, whatcha up to?" - "nothing mate, you?" - "same..... fancy going down to xyz for a couple of beers" - "yeah, why not, nothing else better to do.... so you there in an hour" - "cool, yeah, cheers....."

1 hour later, Mark and I meet up - maybe he's brought his Mrs. or I've brought mine, or one of us has picked up another mate or two on the way..... beer flows..... boredom gone.

Is there something wrong with that?

I think perhaps there is a disparity between "I need a drink" and "I fancy a beer"..... "need" being the optimal word. But I think the phrase "I need a drink" is generally not mean literally..... like "I'd kill that <deleted> if I got my hands on him". For example, after sitting in a church for a couple of hours at a wedding, and then another couple of hours messing about with photgraphs, most of the guys will claim "after that, I need a drink" and there's a high possiblity of being killed in the rush to the bar .......

I don't think so is my response to the title of your thread.

Many alcoholics are very busy people, I have known Doctors, Lawyers, Magistrates etc that are alcoholics.

I would say however that when people retire and move to sunny climes like LOS that the chances of drinking to alleviate boredom are greater, but it's not a rule of thumb that people become alcoholics out of boredom IMHO, but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.

An interesting if obvious comment. I think we all know very productive people who drink, but they are not alcoholics, or at least not in my view. An alcoholic is someone who needs the drink as an excuse NOT TO BE BUSY. Most successful people who drink just accep that drinking is an integral part of social way of relaxing, but they have not allowed that to effect their success and effectiveness in other areas of their lives.

I drink therefore I am.........interesting concept...

I think there is certainly an opposite type of drinking to your theory, ie reward and celebrate scenario, I have lost count of the number of 'excuses' to consume alcohol that we thought up in a reward and celebrate work environment.......but also think of the natural everyday scenario of just having a relaxing G & T after work.....to relax.....that turns into a couple.....then the amount of alcohol consumed at weddings for instance

My personal view is, the widely accepted importance attributed to alcohol at social gatherings supplies the introdutory element which then progresses to being an alcoholic

None of the above could be described as boredom.......however take an unemployed man.....his drinking could well fit into your concept of boredom initiating the need for alcohol

So I would agree with ThaiPauly in general I do not feel your concept applies.....but to certain groups would be applicable.......certainly I see the socialising of the farang in Thailand often revolving around alcohol.

Again a valid if obvious comment. Loads of people drink to celebrate or commiserate. The difference between an alcoholic and a normal social drinker is that they are not looking to use this as an excuse for their drinking problems, and they certainly aren't letting their drinking to celebrate or commiserate effect their productivity. I have heard every single excuse under the sun for peoples drinking problems, again at a fundamental level it just seems the "alcoholic" needs something to blame outside of themselves for their behavioural problems, a substance is an ideal candidate. It cant answer back, it can't fight back, it just sits there taking the abuse! Often if you try and help an alcoholic or if you care about one, it won't be long beofre some of that blame will be being projected towards you, as partners, friends and lovers well know. The more you try and intervene in the belief systems of an alcoholic the more of the burden of blame you will likely recieve.

One way to observe the physcological make up of many alcoholics is to listen to their language. It's generally filled with their own concerns.The Vicious Circle of thier concerns is filled with the "have's"

"I'll be happy when I have stopped drinking."

"If only I had a something worthwile to do."

"I wish people understood"

"If only I had not began drinking."

"If I had friends who didnt drink......."

"If I had moe self control......"

"If I could just have more time to myself."

To influence their situation they have to change their belief systems from "whats out there", as an excuse for their behaviour, to looking inward at what they can influence changing there very being -- "I can be more deceplined, I can be more considerate , I can care more about what others expect from me, I can be more loving, I can find more interesting things to do than drink." It's focus on self that solves problems, not the focus on what's out there, be it some substance, a person or anything else.

Anytime we think the problem is "out there," that thought is the problem. We empower what's out there to control us , and for alcoholics whats out there is alcohol. The alcoholics problem is that he seems to believe that all the time Alcohol is "out there" they can't change, despite the fact they are surrounded by facts to the contrary, namely people who do not have the same problem as them with alcohol. It's fundamentally the same problem as those that claim they are bored. Lock two people in the same room, with the same content, for the same period of time, perhaps what is in that room could only keep an avergae person interest for an hour or two. Who would start saying they was bored first? The alcoholic or the avergage guy? The first thing the alcoholic will do when his bored freshold is hit, is say "I could do with a drink". The social drinker might agree with him, but it was the alcoholic whose boredom got to him first, the other guy might have found a world of things to interest him that where not alcohol, that are not even in the room! They are all in his head, he can keep himself busy and interested in life for far longer than the alcoholic, before he starts saying he "is bored", he "needs a drink". He would probably start caring about the alcoholics DT's long before he got bored and wanted a drink, but the alcoholic would be thinking about the drink long before he thought about the effects of their entrapment on his fellow captive.

If you have never experienced it then I do not believe your point is valid as it's only your opinion and not your experience.

I am not an alcoholic however my brother was and worked 12 hours a day 6 days a week, the excuses you state above my family and I had never heard him say. He knew he was killing himself but could not stop as it's an addiction that only a person in that position can understand.

Self control maybe? boredom no. It started by having a social drink and then continuing the next morning again socially as he worked as a pub manager. Before he knew it he NEEDED a drink to function, he knew his liver was <deleted> but could not stop the addiction.

Drugs can be addictive and alchohol is a powerful and very damaging one, if you enjoy a coffee, tea or cola they all have caffeine in which is a drug so if you have a coffee in the morning do you drink it for enjoyment or boredom?.

Everyone has a reason to drink, escapism, relaxation however alchoholics need it to function.

He died at 35 never complained, he realised it was his own doing and the damage he was doing however addiction especially alchohol addiction is a very powerful one.

Addiction yes boredom no.