Would You Buy Any Real Estate Property In A Country That Does Not Provide You Permanent Visa In Exchange?

[waza]

Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand. The Thai government created one exception with the Land Code Amendment act B.E 2542 (1999) (section 96 bis Land Code Act) allowing foreign individuals to acquire 1 Rai (approx 1600 sq.m) for residential purposes.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouses must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the personal property (such as defined under Thai Family Laws) of such Thai.

1. the Thai spouse has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
2. that the Thai and his/her spouse must present themselves at the Land Office to confirm in a standard land office letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) not a common property (Sin Som Ros).

http://www.samuifors...-ownership.html

http://en.thaiembassymoscow.com/info/?section=s2&artid=20

I recall the topic you are refering to, there was a committe investigating property ownership and funding in the Chang Mai area. I think the problem occured with couple who didnt confirm the source of the funds used to purchase the land.

[waza]

the law about foreigner not been allowed to own land has always been in place, but many bought houses and land in their wives name. Not so long ago, they have amended that, saying that spouse had to purchase land/house with her own money and not from the money received from her foreigner husband.

bull² !

I woud of thought someone of your "stature" had little more intelligence to write something else, not to mention this was on Thai Visa, but i guess you missed it, trying to be funny

Although I generally find Nams post amusing, I must concur with your post.

[kuffki]

Kuffki, you posted misinformation concerning a law that does not exist, obviously based on hearsay. if you think i am wrong and you are right than provide a link to a government website to verify your claim.

until then i say "bull²" and i repeat that inspite of very valuable information -based on which i profited a lot- Thaivisa is full of "bull".

So you are not going to be a man and own up to your mistake? It would be beneath you.

I have already told you this law or adjustment or whatever else you like to call was a headline on this very forum where you spend most of your time and actively express your opinions(12 000 post is enough proof of that)

I never said it was posted on some government website but headlines and article did confirm that this was what was going to happen.

in post 18, another member confirms of the fact.

hearsay or not, this is what was posted and discussed, you like it or dislike it , agree or not agree-it is not the point in question.

Point is it was in the media, it did have particulars and details.

So be a man and own up to missing the article and stop trying to prove your point just because you do not want to be proven wrong. Can not always be right, it is only human to be wrong at times.

PS. Since you insist that Thai Visa is full of bull, i can not help but wonder why you still a member and why you are so active?

[kuffki]

Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand. The Thai government created one exception with the Land Code Amendment act B.E 2542 (1999) (section 96 bis Land Code Act) allowing foreign individuals to acquire 1 Rai (approx 1600 sq.m) for residential purposes.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouses must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the personal property (such as defined under Thai Family Laws) of such Thai.

1. the Thai spouse has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
2. that the Thai and his/her spouse must present themselves at the Land Office to confirm in a standard land office letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) not a common property (Sin Som Ros).

http://www.samuifors...-ownership.html

http://en.thaiembassymoscow.com/info/?section=s2&artid=20

I recall the topic you are refering to, there was a committe investigating property ownership and funding in the Chang Mai area. I think the problem occured with couple who didnt confirm the source of the funds used to purchase the land.

Yeah thats the one, from memory they also said they would now investigate all others and if found in breach land would be confiscated, but as you said in your earlier post i have not seen any follow ups

[Benjie]

Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand. The Thai government created one exception with the Land Code Amendment act B.E 2542 (1999) (section 96 bis Land Code Act) allowing foreign individuals to acquire 1 Rai (approx 1600 sq.m) for residential purposes.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouses must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the personal property (such as defined under Thai Family Laws) of such Thai.

1. the Thai spouse has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
2. that the Thai and his/her spouse must present themselves at the Land Office to confirm in a standard land office letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) not a common property (Sin Som Ros).

http://www.samuifors...-ownership.html

http://en.thaiembassymoscow.com/info/?section=s2&artid=20

I recall the topic you are refering to, there was a committe investigating property ownership and funding in the Chang Mai area. I think the problem occured with couple who didnt confirm the source of the funds used to purchase the land.

Yeah thats the one, from memory they also said they would now investigate all others and if found in breach land would be confiscated, but as you said in your earlier post i have not seen any follow ups

Nothing there says money cant be given from the husband, just that the money should be the wifes own when making the purchase.

Nothing illegal about giving your wife money, nothing illegal about her spending that money on land.

[kuffki]

Foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand. The Thai government created one exception with the Land Code Amendment act B.E 2542 (1999) (section 96 bis Land Code Act) allowing foreign individuals to acquire 1 Rai (approx 1600 sq.m) for residential purposes.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouses must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the personal property (such as defined under Thai Family Laws) of such Thai.

1. the Thai spouse has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
2. that the Thai and his/her spouse must present themselves at the Land Office to confirm in a standard land office letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) not a common property (Sin Som Ros).

http://www.samuifors...-ownership.html

http://en.thaiembassymoscow.com/info/?section=s2&artid=20

I recall the topic you are refering to, there was a committe investigating property ownership and funding in the Chang Mai area. I think the problem occured with couple who didnt confirm the source of the funds used to purchase the land.

Yeah thats the one, from memory they also said they would now investigate all others and if found in breach land would be confiscated, but as you said in your earlier post i have not seen any follow ups

Nothing there says money cant be given from the husband, just that the money should be the wifes own when making the purchase.

Nothing illegal about giving your wife money, nothing illegal about her spending that money on land.

How can the money be wives own when it was given by the husband?

The article we referring to, went into detail on the matter. particulars of which i do not recall but it is on Thai Visa, you can do a search or may be someone has it bookmarked to post the link to it.

The whole scenario as always was not clearly explained so the conclusions can be drawn which ever way you like, But the whole idea seemed to be basically not to buy house or land with foreign money irrespective of when and how it was given to the spouse.

While its all the blur and no precise rules and laws, personally i would not want to toy with Thai Land Department, because once again you never know what new rule they will make tomorrow.

[SantiSuk]

"How can the money be wives own when it was given by the husband?"

How can it be the husbands when he has given it to his wife?

[Answer - only if there are conditions attached to the gift that would imply that the gift was bogus. Many jurisdicttions accept that gifts bewteen husband and wife can be absolute. In the UK it helps to write a note to your wife acknowledging that the gift is absolute and there are no conditions that would require her to give it back. I don't know whether this is a sensible precaution in Thailand also.]

[kuffki]

"How can the money be wives own when it was given by the husband?"

How can it be the husbands when he has given it to his wife?

[Answer - only if there are conditions attached to the gift that would imply that the gift was bogus. Many jurisdicttions accept that gifts bewteen husband and wife can be absolute. In the UK it helps to write a note to your wife acknowledging that the gift is absolute and there are no conditions that would require her to give it back. I don't know whether this is a sensible precaution in Thailand also.]

Haha, i see what you mean and it can get very confusing and complicated, not sure about others but i sure would not want to make things complicated especially in Thailand. Because it would be easier and simpler for the ministry to seize the property rather then trying to think to sort it out(if it came to it)

Also another issue to consider is, if say the gift from a foreign spouse was(example) 1 million baht and the price of land is 1 million baht, will be hard to show that this was just a gift with no strings attached.

I can only see 1 way for those wanting to risk it, just deposit money regularly to the spouses account for a certain period of time, so she could claim this was her salary or something along the lines, since Thai nationals do not need to pay tax for income less then 250 000 baht/month and preferably with enough time prior to making the purchase.

But again, when things start to get that complicated and risks are high and by no means this would be calculated risk but purely in the hands of beaurocratic and corrupt government hands, personally i would not even try

[gamini]

I think your question is an answer in itself. While there are no country's that do grant automatic visa, many countries do and have an amount that one should invest, but more importantly in those countries your investment is secure and will always be yours-where it is not the case in Thailand, in my opinion.

I am well aware the bashing i will get but what is to stop Thai government to pass a new law where foreigner can not own a condo and anyone who does must sell theirs in a set time frame of say 4 weeks.. While for many it sounds crazy or impossible, this is Thailand and crazy rules and laws have been implemented with a change of government.

Just think if a new government does not honor any arrangements made by the previous, whats to stop something as crazy as this to implemented?

the law about foreigner not been allowed to own land has always been in place, but many bought houses and land in their wives name. Not so long ago, they have amended that, saying that spouse had to purchase land/house with her own money and not from the money received from her foreigner husband.

One other point to mention, when you purchase a condo with a nice view, next year or year after you may end up having a view of a wall, because someone else will develop condo double the size of yours right in front.

Just look at Northpoint in Pattaya, all the condo's behind have been blocked, where is prior to that many had ocean view and now have wall views.

If I give my wife 10 million baht as a birthday present it is her money and if she wants to buy land with it no court of law in Thailand can stop her. I have given my wife millions of baht as presents and she has bought a lot of land. If any official in the land department questioned how she got the money she would tell them that it is not thier business. This so called law is something the land department has made up on its own.

and could be challenged in any court of law as unconstitutional.

I thought this wasnt being actively persued anymore. Does anyone have any information on how many properties were siezed? I would be more worried about a situation similar to Goa.

no land has been seized

[JimGant]

the law about foreigner not been allowed to own land has always been in place, but many bought houses and land in their wives name. Not so long ago, they have amended that, saying that spouse had to purchase land/house with her own money and not from the money received from her foreigner husband.

bull² !

Exactly. And if such an amendment existed, to what purpose? It's already wasted paper to have the farang attest that the land was not bought with his money. Why? Because the Land Office should only be interested in preserving the law against farang ownership...and the law is perfectly clear on that point, regardless of whose money bought the property. The worst that could happen without such a paper is the farang might have a better civil case for recovering his money -- which might require sale of the land. But that paper doesn't bring the farang any closer to owning that land, at least under current Thai law.

So, why the Land Office is protecting against potential civil actions that in no way affect whether or not a farang can own land...is not clear. And it would certainly be even more nonsensical if the Land Office suddenly began asking the Thai wife for proof that it's really her money. There wouldn't be any sales at all if that were the case....

Anyway, for many of us here, married for many decades to our Thai wives, we have no qualms about the wife having sole title to the land. Besides, who ever heard of retiring to a "rental" as your dream home....

Many speed bumps in life. But living in Thailand isn't among them. At least for many of us.

[Naam]

Kuffki, you posted misinformation concerning a law that does not exist, obviously based on hearsay. if you think i am wrong and you are right than provide a link to a government website to verify your claim.

until then i say "bull²" and i repeat that inspite of very valuable information -based on which i profited a lot- Thaivisa is full of "bull".

PS. Since you insist that Thai Visa is full of bull, i can not help but wonder why you still a member and why you are so active?

besides wishy-washy arguments (it was written here... another tv-member confirmed... etc.) you seem to need reading glasses.

what part of my posting "inspite of very valuable information -based on which i profited a lot-" is it you don't understand?

[inthepink]

Perhaps you can enlightened us as to which country in the world automatically grants permanent right of stay to foreigners who buy into their real estate? Singapore, Hong Kong, USA, UK, ...?

But I do have a few countries in mind that issue passports to foreigners if they invest enough...

There is a difference however.

I bought a small flat in West Norwood (London) a very long time ago.

I could also have bought a house.

No problem, it will always remain my property, or my children after going to paradise...or hel_l.

Here in Thailand, you can buy a car, a condo or a house in your wife's name.

If something goes wrong, and are chucked out of the country, you loose everything.

If, for example I would not be able to enter the UK any more, I still own my flat.

It does not disappear.

The rules for not owning land in Thailand are outdated and not really helping the trust in Thailand.

What would be wrong for a farang to own a plot of land for a house?

Ah well, who am I?

Here in Thailand you can also buy a car and a condo in your own name, no need to use your wife's. Do you actually know of a single foreigner who has bought a condo in Thailand, been thrown out of the country and lost his property as a result?

The majority of people I've met that moan about Thai property / land ownership laws and loudly declare they would never invest money in Thailand, couldn't afford to anyway.

[kuffki]

Kuffki, you posted misinformation concerning a law that does not exist, obviously based on hearsay. if you think i am wrong and you are right than provide a link to a government website to verify your claim.

until then i say "bull²" and i repeat that inspite of very valuable information -based on which i profited a lot- Thaivisa is full of "bull".

PS. Since you insist that Thai Visa is full of bull, i can not help but wonder why you still a member and why you are so active?

besides wishy-washy arguments (it was written here... another tv-member confirmed... etc.) you seem to need reading glasses.

what part of my posting "inspite of very valuable information -based on which i profited a lot-" is it you don't understand?

funny how you edited everything else in my post and only chose to quote the last bit, But i understand you know better and more and best argument or response you CAN come up with is i need reading glasses, Strangely enough, it was you who missed the headline, so if anyone needs glasses that would be you, but again rather then just owing up to your mistake, you will continue with this nuisance.

Was the headline on Thai Visa-YES

Did they talk about investigations and changes?-YES

Does your believe of its being true or untrue relevant to the thread?-NO

Was your comment of just "bull" justified or needed?-NO

Do you have any knowledge on the matter and have you shared it?-NO

Should i go on?

[kuffki]

the law about foreigner not been allowed to own land has always been in place, but many bought houses and land in their wives name. Not so long ago, they have amended that, saying that spouse had to purchase land/house with her own money and not from the money received from her foreigner husband.

bull² !

Exactly. And if such an amendment existed, to what purpose?

Do not shoot the messenger, purpose or aim or reasoning is not always the driving force behind making those changes in Thailand

They may enforce it or or may be not, but they sure talked about it.

[JimGant]

Do not shoot the messenger,

Your "message" is that the Land Office is now requiring Thai wives to prove the money they bought land with is NOT a gift from their farang husband. Proving negatives is always problematic.

No, this is just a rumor -- easily manufactured as an extension to the "this is your, not joint, money" affidavit required by the Land Office. But, as several have pointed out here, a gift of money to your wife would legally satisfy authorities that you've separated any claim to whatever that money has attached to. Especially if you've signed an affidavit to that effect regarding land purchase.

Shaking down your wife as to her source of funds for the land purchase has not happened, as far as anyone has reported. And for good reason -- for to do so would be ludicrous.

Just another rumor. And this forum is certainly not immune from rumors. However, dialogue like this thread can make amends.

[falang07]

Give me country that does give you a "permanent" visa when you buy property....there is no such thing as a permanent visa

What about the investment visa that is no longer in effect? You could have bought a condo for 2 mil baht and no more visa problems... Until they introduce something resonable like this again, I say no.

[kuffki]

Do not shoot the messenger,

Your "message" is that the Land Office is now requiring Thai wives to prove the money they bought land with is NOT a gift from their farang husband. Proving negatives is always problematic.

No, this is just a rumor -- easily manufactured as an extension to the "this is your, not joint, money" affidavit required by the Land Office. But, as several have pointed out here, a gift of money to your wife would legally satisfy authorities that you've separated any claim to whatever that money has attached to. Especially if you've signed an affidavit to that effect regarding land purchase.

Shaking down your wife as to her source of funds for the land purchase has not happened, as far as anyone has reported. And for good reason -- for to do so would be ludicrous.

Just another rumor. And this forum is certainly not immune from rumors. However, dialogue like this thread can make amends.

for the 5th time, this was the new "arrangement " which was printed/posted on Thai Visa, you do not like it-contact Thai Visa admin!

Your personal opinion on the matter has nothing to do with the fact that it was posted! Again rumor or not, take it up with Thai Visa and the source!

[trogers]

Give me country that does give you a "permanent" visa when you buy property....there is no such thing as a permanent visa

What about the investment visa that is no longer in effect? You could have bought a condo for 2 mil baht and no more visa problems... Until they introduce something resonable like this again, I say no.

Two million baht cannot even get you a recently completed studio unit from Prakhanong to Rachathewi.

[inthepink]

Give me country that does give you a "permanent" visa when you buy property....there is no such thing as a permanent visa

What about the investment visa that is no longer in effect? You could have bought a condo for 2 mil baht and no more visa problems... Until they introduce something resonable like this again, I say no.

They already reintroduced it. 10 million baht investment gets you a 1 year, renewable investment visa.

[falang07]

10 mil baht? No way, for this price I can rent all my life and still invest the remaining 8 mils

[kuffki]

Give me country that does give you a "permanent" visa when you buy property....there is no such thing as a permanent visa

What about the investment visa that is no longer in effect? You could have bought a condo for 2 mil baht and no more visa problems... Until they introduce something resonable like this again, I say no.

They already reintroduced it. 10 million baht investment gets you a 1 year, renewable investment visa.

So its already 10, because just 1-2 years ago it was 8. so before we know it it could be at 20:)

I do know however that if someone invests $1000 000 (note $ not baht) they can get Thai passport

[JimGant]

For the curious, the following link is the article that started the fracas about 'all land will now be confiscated if the Thai wife can't prove the money was hers from the gitgo.'

Article from Phuket Gazette

No subsequent action, of course, to validate this statement. But plenty of dialogue to dispute this bureaucrat's understanding of "nominee." One such, the following:

Legal look at Thai wife ownership

So, the rumor about Thai wives, buying land and married to farangs, now needing to prove this was never money in their husband's possession... is false.

The closest to this is in the situation where the farang husband does not (or cannot, because he's not here) sign the statement in the Land Office attesting that the purchase money is not his. In such a situation, the wife can make her case, to the Land Office, that, indeed, the money used for the land purchase is hers:

In case a Thai who has legal or illegal alien spouse, if a Thai could show the evidence indicates that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset according to section 1471 and section 1472 of The Civil and Commercial Code, the competent officer could registers rights and juristic act for a Thai without testimony form of Thai nationality and an alien spouse....

Stupid rumors, er, bureaucrats.

[pkrv]

Going back to the OP

Visas - Hmm I am not sure - This is an alternative but no one has come forward and I said have done this, and indeed the consequences (I hope 90 day reporting is not required BORING)

policy777-2551_en.pdf

[waza]

OK, here is a link to the Topic mentioned before,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/270261-Illegal-Thai-Wives-Foreigners-L/

It does seem a storm in a tea cup creayed by the Phuket article.

[2wisemen]

I agree,why buy and take all the risks,and there are plenty 4 sure when buying in Thailand,when you can rent and live well on the saved funds.

I can never understand this constant urge by Farang to buy property,especially in an unstable country, I compare it to like Lemmings racing towards the cliff!!

Utalize the visa allowance over multiple countries, there are OTHER countries beside Thailand you know.

I believe Mozambique is now part of the British Commonwealth

,now theres a nice change.

Even during their war it was a lovely country, probably better now.

Food for thought!

10 mil baht? No way, for this price I can rent all my life and still invest the remaining 8 mils

[ESB7]

Maybe the OP hasnt heard of PR or Citenzenship...lets assume you bought a plot of land 7 years ago at 500,000 and spent 1 million on build and furnishings etc, that would have built you a very nice house if you oversaw the project and only paid cost price.....a U.K. national would have transferred 1.5 million Baht at an exchange rate approx 77 Baht-1 Sterling so a cost of just over 20k Sterling......that same person now wishes to sell and could probably achieve in the region of 3 million Baht if they chose the right location, he now wishes to return to the UK so transfers at an exchange rate of 46 so gets approx 50K Sterling...150% return and free living for 7 years...thats not so bad but if you cant afford to buy why ask a question

[ChiangMaiFun]

I agree,why buy and take all the risks,and there are plenty 4 sure when buying in Thailand,when you can rent and live well on the saved funds.

I can never understand this constant urge by Farang to buy property,especially in an unstable country, I compare it to like Lemmings racing towards the cliff!!

Utalize the visa allowance over multiple countries, there are OTHER countries beside Thailand you know.

I believe Mozambique is now part of the British Commonwealth

,now theres a nice change.

Even during their war it was a lovely country, probably better now.

Food for thought!

10 mil baht? No way, for this price I can rent all my life and still invest the remaining 8 mils

What a foolish post - without going into all the details many farang buy here and live comfortably off the 8/9% ROI they get from rents.

[sarahsbloke]

What a foolish post - without going into all the details many farang buy here and live comfortably off the 8/9% ROI they get from rents.

I'm currently negotiating to rent a rather large house (on sale for 4 million baht, their original purchase price) that has been empty for 4 years on a large plot of land.

Thai owner, so it has been allowed to decay ...... porch roof surrounding the house and carport roof leak badly, no electricity to check air-con units, some interior termite damage (nothing significant IMO).

They pay a gardener 500bht a month to keep the lawn and bushes cut. Houses decay very quickly in Thailand, if you don't/can't rent it, what do you do?

I have offered 5,000bht a month, they fix roof .... (yes I know, very cheeky)

They have offered it at 8,000bht a month, I pay for roof (if I want the leaks stopped) and any ongoing repairs.

Now if you calculated their ROI (please include the nothing for 4 years, and the gardening costs) ......... so far total disaster.

If I rent it at somewhere in the middle of our initial negotiations .... about 2% return at best (no including the 4 years losses).

Buying and renting property out here is a total minefield, I'm sure some people make money, but I also suspect many don't.

6.5% interest in an Australian 1 year term savings account is much safer, and a lot less hassle.

[ESB7]

What a foolish post - without going into all the details many farang buy here and live comfortably off the 8/9% ROI they get from rents.

I'm currently negotiating to rent a rather large house (on sale for 4 million baht, their original purchase price) that has been empty for 4 years on a large plot of land.

Thai owner, so it has been allowed to decay ...... porch roof surrounding the house and carport roof leak badly, no electricity to check air-con units, some interior termite damage (nothing significant IMO).

They pay a gardener 500bht a month to keep the lawn and bushes cut. Houses decay very quickly in Thailand, if you don't/can't rent it, what do you do?

I have offered 5,000bht a month, they fix roof .... (yes I know, very cheeky)

They have offered it at 8,000bht a month, I pay for roof (if I want the leaks stopped) and any ongoing repairs.

Now if you calculated their ROI (please include the nothing for 4 years, and the gardening costs) ......... so far total disaster.

If I rent it at somewhere in the middle of our initial negotiations .... about 2% return at best (no including the 4 years losses).

Buying and renting property out here is a total minefield, I'm sure some people make money, but I also suspect many don't.

6.5% interest in an Australian 1 year term savings account is much safer, and a lot less hassle.

Must be the longest rental negotiation in history if my memory serves me correct on your previous posts :D

[ChiangMaiFun]

What a foolish post - without going into all the details many farang buy here and live comfortably off the 8/9% ROI they get from rents.

I'm currently negotiating to rent a rather large house (on sale for 4 million baht, their original purchase price) that has been empty for 4 years on a large plot of land.

Thai owner, so it has been allowed to decay ...... porch roof surrounding the house and carport roof leak badly, no electricity to check air-con units, some interior termite damage (nothing significant IMO).

They pay a gardener 500bht a month to keep the lawn and bushes cut. Houses decay very quickly in Thailand, if you don't/can't rent it, what do you do?

I have offered 5,000bht a month, they fix roof .... (yes I know, very cheeky)

They have offered it at 8,000bht a month, I pay for roof (if I want the leaks stopped) and any ongoing repairs.

Now if you calculated their ROI (please include the nothing for 4 years, and the gardening costs) ......... so far total disaster.

If I rent it at somewhere in the middle of our initial negotiations .... about 2% return at best (no including the 4 years losses).

Buying and renting property out here is a total minefield, I'm sure some people make money, but I also suspect many don't.

6.5% interest in an Australian 1 year term savings account is much safer, and a lot less hassle.

Opposite story - I have a few condos - all fully let - no 'empties' ROI varies between 7 to 11% NET