Buying Land

[kunash]

My girlfriend has just been offered some land in Surin, within about 2km from city centre. We have both been looking for a while now, and have seen 1 rai of land selling for 100,000 baht about 10km out, to over 5 million closer to the city, which we thought was bloody expensive.

The land is owned by my girlfriend's boss, who owns and runs a private school. The boss bought the land ( maybe about 9 rai + in total ) about 4 or 5 years ago to build her school there, but found more suitable land.

1 rai is being sold for about 1.3 million. For sale is 3 rai which forms the back half of a 6 rai field. We might buy 1.5 rai, or just 1. The front 3 rai is owned by someone else. At the moment the front 3 rai is used as a small football pitch. Surrounding the whole field is a large brick wall. There is a road running next to the front half of the field. The boss said she would build a road from the existing road to her 3 rai of land at her expense. This would also mean the road would extend to her other land. I am not sure what type of road she would build. I hope a proper tarmac one.

There is electricity. On the other side of the wall is a large Japanese car salesroom, and the other 2 sides of the wall is the rest of the boss's land. I think the land is ready to build on. There are mature, large trees around the inside edge of the wall, and also the other side of the wall. These would have to be pulled down.

I am not sure whether we will buy the land, depends what our plans are. but if we do ( or rather my GF buys it ), Is there anything I should ask about the land, or any advice pls? ( apart from dont buy it!! ). Any advice about the road, or installing utility pipes with the road ( water). or checking my GF has full ownership of the land.

[trogers]

Is your GF's name on her ID card, Nang or Nangsao? If Nang, she will need her husband to countersign the transfer documents as he can make a claim for half of the land...

[kunash]

It is Nang. But she is now officially divorced, and has reverted back to her dad's surname.

[bina]

caveat emptor. any time anyone promises to do something but its not yet been done, then consider that it will never be done. or at least not by your time frame. thai land laws are complex. u dont know them . thais dont tend to know them either. they go by word of mouth. and heresay.

also, what happens if suddenly your gf and the boss have a falling out. u will now be bordering your worst enemy. u will be dependant on your worst enemy for tax , roads, border markings, noise control, the list is endless...

lots of stories here also of people buying good lots, and suddenly the neighbhor on the left or the right build akaroake joint, or whatever. if something is bordering u on all sides that is already fairly permanent, less likely to have to dealw ith problems later on. not sure also if u want a football field bordering your house? could be sold/rented built on, ..........

bina

lots of bells ringing.

[Boater]

i coulnt help but notice another post of yours was about paying the Mother In Law every month

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/379737-how-much-to-pay-the-mother-in-law/

but here you state she is just your GF and not your wife now ( or have you moved on to another women )

from your posts , it may look like you are being taken for a massive ride up there in the north

just watch your self, and dont spend more money then you are prepared to lose....

[kunash]

i coulnt help but notice another post of yours was about paying the Mother In Law every month

http://www.thaivisa....-mother-in-law/

but here you state she is just your GF and not your wife now ( or have you moved on to another women )

from your posts , it may look like you are being taken for a massive ride up there in the north

just watch your self, and dont spend more money then you are prepared to lose....

@ Boater, Yes, the other post about the ''mother in law'', which got resurrected for some reason, I used the wrong terminology. i should have been clearer. I regard my girlfriend's mother as my mother in law, but I am not married (yet) to my girlfriend, and yes it is the same girl . Thanks for the concerns though, but all is well ( fingers crossed )

@Bina thanks, yes, some very good points there. The land is very cheap, from what I have seen in Surin. The boss needs to sell to finance some refurbishments at the school. I am not sure what we will do with the land. Just keep it as an investment, or build. Your concerns are very valid, and we have no control over who our future neighbours will be. It is a gamble. I am not sure whether to involve a solicitor, but i think Thai's would rather not involve them. Will have to be careful about the road construction

[JohnC]

I am not sure whether to involve a solicitor,

I think that is a major error on your part, how do you know the current owner has not borrowed against this land? or there are other debts attached to the land? Has the owner paid all debts due including taxes (if any?)

Remember once you buy it you become liable for all debts incurred prior to purchase also you say the owner will build an access road through his adjoining land, what if sometime in the future he sells that land and the new owner blocks the road as you have no public right of way? . This deal appears to be fraught with pitfalls and danger and I for one would steer well clear.

Edited November 15, 2010 by JohnC

[kunash]

I am not sure whether to involve a solicitor,

I think that is a major error on your part, how do you know the current owner has not borrowed against this land? or there are other debts attached to the land? Has the owner paid all debts due including taxes (if any?)

Remember once you buy it you become liable for all debts incurred prior to purchase also you say the owner will build an access road through his adjoining land, what if sometime in the future he sells that land and the new owner blocks the road as you have no public right of way? . This deal appears to be fraught with pitfalls and danger and I for one would steer well clear.

the front 3 rai is owned by someone else, and is not her land. this weekend the boss was going to look over the land papers again to see where she could build the road. I did put the question to her, ''well if i owned the front 3 rai, i would not want someone to build a road on my land.'' as i understand it, a road can be built either side of the middle front rai, and this will be built on public land and not land owned by an individual. the boss will confirm this today hopefully.

you raise some very valid points about involving a solicitor. for my own peace of mind i will involve one.

[johnnyk]

Way too many 'ifs' here. Don't do it, there are less complicated situations. I can understand why the GF wants to do it but its YOUR money. Should you involve a solicitor? Please, if you have to ask this then you have no business even thinking about getting involved in a land deal. Take a deep breath and do some serious thinking.

[kunash]

I have seen a photcopy of the land title. There are two roads marked on the map, joining the boss's land to the existing road. however, while the front three rai are individually marked, the boss's land is marked as one 3 rai block, and not individual 1 rai's. So, as it stands now, we could not even buy 1 rai.

the boss would prefer to sell as one 3 rai block, at 3200 baht per tarangwa. if 1 rai then 3500 baht. one obsticle is the land office. From what the boss says it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

anyway, it is becoming more unlikely any purchase will happen

[donx]

I have seen a photcopy of the land title. There are two roads marked on the map, joining the boss's land to the existing road. however, while the front three rai are individually marked, the boss's land is marked as one 3 rai block, and not individual 1 rai's. So, as it stands now, we could not even buy 1 rai.

the boss would prefer to sell as one 3 rai block, at 3200 baht per tarangwa. if 1 rai then 3500 baht. one obsticle is the land office. From what the boss says it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

anyway, it is becoming more unlikely any purchase will happen

What's so special about this land? If my math is correct it looks like you are trying to buy 1 rai for 1.4 million baht. In 2007 my wife bought 2.6 rai of beach front land for 750,000 baht/rai. OK, so today I've been told its worth 1.5 million baht/rai, but it is beach front land. What makes the land you're interested so expensive?

[rgs2001uk]

I have seen a photcopy of the land title. There are two roads marked on the map, joining the boss's land to the existing road. however, while the front three rai are individually marked, the boss's land is marked as one 3 rai block, and not individual 1 rai's. So, as it stands now, we could not even buy 1 rai.

the boss would prefer to sell as one 3 rai block, at 3200 baht per tarangwa. if 1 rai then 3500 baht. one obsticle is the land office. From what the boss says it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

anyway, it is becoming more unlikely any purchase will happen

What's so special about this land? If my math is correct it looks like you are trying to buy 1 rai for 1.4 million baht. In 2007 my wife bought 2.6 rai of beach front land for 750,000 baht/rai. OK, so today I've been told its worth 1.5 million baht/rai, but it is beach front land. What makes the land you're interested so expensive?

Now now don, as a regular knowledgeable contributor of the land forum do you really need to ask?

Two things come to mind straight away and the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, I hear the words girlfriend and Surin.

We only have the op's word this is the cost of the land, how much is the girlfriend going to pocket from the deal, we all know Thais like their percentage or commission.

The above is in no way intended as a slur to the many good ladies of Surin that are out there, but the op wont be the first to pay over the odds for land in the area or even to pay for land the family already owns.

[bina]

it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

check out my thread here of the still (as of today) ongoing saga of the conversion of sb3 land to chantoe taht should have been a piece of cake...:

so yes, land offices are slow. depending on what has to be done of course. and i warn u. anything that is off the books, not in the rules, ammendments, changes that arent standard, well.... give it up now, we paid for one load of dirt oto fill 'our' land, we now refuse to do anymore on the plot until the chanote is signed, sealed and sent ot us via EMS in israel...

bina

israel

Edited November 16, 2010 by bina
wording/link

[kunash]

What's so special about this land? If my math is correct it looks like you are trying to buy 1 rai for 1.4 million baht. In 2007 my wife bought 2.6 rai of beach front land for 750,000 baht/rai. OK, so today I've been told its worth 1.5 million baht/rai, but it is beach front land. What makes the land you're interested so expensive?

From what I have been shown, from talking to expats in Surin who own land (well, their GF's/wife), internet and my GF and her family asking, 1.4 million baht per rai, within 2km of the town centre is very cheap. Prices have nearly doubled in the last 4/5 years.

1 rai of land has just sold for 2.6 million baht on the estate where we are now. Yes, prices are inflated, but it is selling, so if we want to buy land, at an affordable price, we will need to do sowithin 1 or 2 years or it will become too expensive, or we will have to move further our of town.

If you can find me 1 rai of land very close to the city centre, then please come and help

[sarahsbloke]

Is your GF's name on her ID card, Nang or Nangsao? If Nang, she will need her husband to countersign the transfer documents as he can make a claim for half of the land...

Just to point out, Nang/Nangsao is optional and no firm guide to a ladies married status.

My wife has my surname and Nangsao on her ID card ........ Nang made her feel too old, Nai in Amphur office said, 'up to her'

[dansat]

Yes ask for a taxi away from the land before you your gf signs the papers. Farangs CANT own land ( unless you invest like 40 million baht or something )

Now if you gf is buying the land with her own hard earned money then i will stup up right now

[manhattan55]

I have seen a photcopy of the land title. There are two roads marked on the map, joining the boss's land to the existing road. however, while the front three rai are individually marked, the boss's land is marked as one 3 rai block, and not individual 1 rai's. So, as it stands now, we could not even buy 1 rai.

the boss would prefer to sell as one 3 rai block, at 3200 baht per tarangwa. if 1 rai then 3500 baht. one obsticle is the land office. From what the boss says it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

anyway, it is becoming more unlikely any purchase will happen

My experience here in Korat with subdividing a plot of land was quite good. The whole process of arranging for the measurement of the segregated land and the issuance of the chanote was a matter of weeks, not months. The Korat Land Department has subcontracted the land measurement task to a private company who has a desk right inside the Land Department building. I seem to remember it took them about a week to come out to do the measurements, and then another week or two for the chanotes to be issued. It did help, though, that my then-Thai GF new the wife of one of the supervisors in the Department. I would suggest to the OP to go and see for himself - to make inquiries at the Land Department to verify the land owner's claims. They may be just a negotiation tactic to induce the OP to commit for the whole 3 rai (if affordable to him).

[bina]

The Korat Land Department has subcontracted the land measurement task to a private company who has a desk right inside the Land Department building. I seem to remember it took them about a week to come out to do the measurements, and then another week or two for the chanotes to be issued. It did help, though, that my then-Thai GF new the wife of one of the supervisors in the Department. I wou

how recent was this? we are still waiting and there should now be no problems with our chanote changeover... trying to explain to hubby was subcontract means... the thai word that i found doesnt quite fit the bill..

bina

[manhattan55]

I was afraid you would ask me that question. As I currently do not have a copy of the chanote in my possession, my good guess is that it was sometime during the 1st quarter of 2009.

[johnnyk]

Being cynical, something jumps out at me in the OP.

The GF was "offered" land. A coincidence that she has/is know to have a falang BF?

[donx]

The Korat Land Department has subcontracted the land measurement task to a private company who has a desk right inside the Land Department building. I seem to remember it took them about a week to come out to do the measurements, and then another week or two for the chanotes to be issued. It did help, though, that my then-Thai GF new the wife of one of the supervisors in the Department. I wou

how recent was this? we are still waiting and there should now be no problems with our chanote changeover... trying to explain to hubby was subcontract means... the thai word that i found doesnt quite fit the bill..

bina

bina, your situation is quite different from manhattan55's situation. You are trying to upgrade the title for your land from Nor Sor Som to Chanote whereas manhattan55 had a Chanote that he wanted to divide into multiple Chanotes. I suspect that dividing a Chanote into multiple Chanotes doesn't require as much time. Upgrading land title is a completely different issue. Since the OP is saying there is a Chanote that needs to be divided, I would assume that the owner of the land should be able to have this done in a rather short amount of time. I suspect the owner is concerned that dividing it will make it harder to sell all the land and is therefore reluctant to do so in advance.

[bina]

thanx 4 clairfication but still, anybody got any ideas....

[ESB7]

If you havnt got direct access, LEAVE IT ALONE.........and seems expensive 5 kms out towards Krasang land with road frontage is a fraction of what she is asking.

[ESB7]

I have seen a photcopy of the land title. There are two roads marked on the map, joining the boss's land to the existing road. however, while the front three rai are individually marked, the boss's land is marked as one 3 rai block, and not individual 1 rai's. So, as it stands now, we could not even buy 1 rai.

the boss would prefer to sell as one 3 rai block, at 3200 baht per tarangwa. if 1 rai then 3500 baht. one obsticle is the land office. From what the boss says it could take her some time to get the land office to amend the 3 rai block to individual 1 rai blocks. this could take many, many months, even up to one year. are the land office that slow?

anyway, it is becoming more unlikely any purchase will happen

What's so special about this land? If my math is correct it looks like you are trying to buy 1 rai for 1.4 million baht. In 2007 my wife bought 2.6 rai of beach front land for 750,000 baht/rai. OK, so today I've been told its worth 1.5 million baht/rai, but it is beach front land. What makes the land you're interested so expensive?

At that price, obviously not a very popular beach, and in 3 years you havnt even built on it yet.

[donx]

At that price, obviously not a very popular beach, and in 3 years you havnt even built on it yet.

Yes, it is not a popular beach. For me, that is an advantage pricewise and peacewise. I haven't built yet because I don't live in Thailand. I don't plan on building until I get closer to retirement - 10 to 15 years from now. The area is convenient for me. 15 minutes from a Tesco Lotus. A 2 hour drive from the in-laws (not too close yet not too far away).

My point was that I was trying to see why the OP's land seemed so expensive to me. I don't know the area he is referring to but it still seems far from the areas where land is expected to be expensive such as Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

I completely agree with you on the issue of the land not having direct access. Yet another reason I'm puzzled about how expensive the land seems.

[dansat]

At that price, obviously not a very popular beach, and in 3 years you havnt even built on it yet.

Yes, it is not a popular beach. For me, that is an advantage pricewise and peacewise. I haven't built yet because I don't live in Thailand. I don't plan on building until I get closer to retirement - 10 to 15 years from now. The area is convenient for me. 15 minutes from a Tesco Lotus. A 2 hour drive from the in-laws (not too close yet not too far away).

My point was that I was trying to see why the OP's land seemed so expensive to me. I don't know the area he is referring to but it still seems far from the areas where land is expected to be expensive such as Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

I completely agree with you on the issue of the land not having direct access. Yet another reason I'm puzzled about how expensive the land seems.

You broght land for you and your wife to build on in 10 - 15 years. I would say that is a bad idea. 10 - 15 Years in Thailand is a very very long time. There is about a 90 % chance you and your wife wont even be together in 15 years.

[johnnyk]

At that price, obviously not a very popular beach, and in 3 years you havnt even built on it yet.

Yes, it is not a popular beach. For me, that is an advantage pricewise and peacewise. I haven't built yet because I don't live in Thailand. I don't plan on building until I get closer to retirement - 10 to 15 years from now. The area is convenient for me. 15 minutes from a Tesco Lotus. A 2 hour drive from the in-laws (not too close yet not too far away).

My point was that I was trying to see why the OP's land seemed so expensive to me. I don't know the area he is referring to but it still seems far from the areas where land is expected to be expensive such as Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

I completely agree with you on the issue of the land not having direct access. Yet another reason I'm puzzled about how expensive the land seems.

You broght land for you and your wife to build on in 10 - 15 years. I would say that is a bad idea. 10 - 15 Years in Thailand is a very very long time. There is about a 90 % chance you and your wife wont even be together in 15 years.

Edited November 20, 2010 by johnnyk

[johnnyk]

Never mind Thailand 10-15 years down the road. In North America its 50-50 a marriage will not last past five years.

Edited November 20, 2010 by johnnyk

[johnnyk]

At that price, obviously not a very popular beach, and in 3 years you havnt even built on it yet.

Yes, it is not a popular beach. For me, that is an advantage pricewise and peacewise. I haven't built yet because I don't live in Thailand. I don't plan on building until I get closer to retirement - 10 to 15 years from now. The area is convenient for me. 15 minutes from a Tesco Lotus. A 2 hour drive from the in-laws (not too close yet not too far away).

My point was that I was trying to see why the OP's land seemed so expensive to me. I don't know the area he is referring to but it still seems far from the areas where land is expected to be expensive such as Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

I completely agree with you on the issue of the land not having direct access. Yet another reason I'm puzzled about how expensive the land seems.

You broght land for you and your wife to build on in 10 - 15 years. I would say that is a bad idea. 10 - 15 Years in Thailand is a very very long time. There is about a 90 % chance you and your wife wont even be together in 15 years.

AND the land would have been sold off to help a family member out of trouble, guaranteed.

A UK guy near me lost ' their ' land investment in one year, CARDS.

[johnnyk]

The TGs know the relationship odds better than many starry-eyed falangs. Land is tangible and they want to have something when falang man leaves her for another TG or becomes a useless drunk, which she has probably witnessed among her friends. Its all about security for her.