Thailand Is Not Ready To Start A Welfare State

[jayjay0]

No country can afford a welfare state since it depends on the population and economy growing continuously...something that just isn't possible.

How about thinking big picture? Thailand faces a growing labour shortage and a growing problem with elder care. If the state could assist with some social services such as geriatric day care, child day care and even an improved health care delivery system, the economy would benefit as it would allow more Thai workers to participate more fully in the labour force. This would of course require a proper tax assessment and collection capability first as the services have to be paid for and right now the people who should be paying taxes are not.

Let me get this rite.

You are proposing create jobs in a market that is facing a labor shortage. Seems counter productive to me.

That is not to say the ideas are not with out merit.

Edited November 20, 2010 by jayjay0

[TAWP]

Increasing the tax take from the populace is a good way to increase the states treasure-chest but is also the best way to start ruining a nation.

I was very positively surprised to see when I came here that such a huge slice of the nations lower waged income earners was practically excluded from paying tax at all since they earned under the lower bracket's monetary roof. Therefor making sure that every earned bath, for those that need them the most, lands in their wallet and enables them to use them to use then in the market place.

And it also reduces the number of tax-collectors, government workers that needs to process tax-return papers etc, reducing the governments own cost for collecting the money.

Edited November 20, 2010 by TAWP

[mommysboy]

Thailand will be ready to start a welfare state when the bunch of uglies who have carved up the show between themselves for the past god-knows-how many years either start looking beyond the end of their noses or are forced into addressing said utterly daft carve-up of the country's pie.

The country's dogs get better social welfare than its people. No country can afford social welfare, it's just what 'progressive countries' do anyway.

Thailand most definitely is not a poor country, but its welfare system is derisory.

[mommysboy]

I think it's very difficult to implement a welfare state to any degree at all until the working population in its entirety start declaring incomes and paying taxes on them. OK, office workers, hotel employees, those in the freight business, etc all pay their taxes but I don't know any farmers, bar girls or building contractors who do.

Tax everyone who is employed - this would obviously require wages to go up - and fine any employees and employers HEAVILY (financially and with the threat of detentional and company closure) found to be in violation. This will massively raise national income through both consumer expenditure and government-sector investment (they've got more tax revenue to spend); although it's debatable whether the harsher regulations would encourage foreign companies to invest here on grounds of stability or they would discourage investment due to higher labour costs.

This would of course require all those at the top to openly declare assets and incomes, and be taxed on them - so is politically very difficult to do. Can you imagine Abhisit telling Jatuporn (or even the local police for that matter) that the state requires him to declare how much he earns (from both his salary and "elsewhere"), how much he has and that he must pay a certain percentage of ALL of his earnings every month? What are the odds that he would be told: 1) **** off; 2) I have nothing and I get 15,000 Baht per month; 3) I'll take to the streets with my hired thugs if you implement this law, and I'll bring every other corrupt politican and their resources with me?

And then, who's going to do the checks? Police? Some other corrupt organisation? It's just asking to made into some kind of protection racket. Can you imagine what a tax inspector would be offered if he went to a Pattaya girlie bar asking for income slips for all the staff?

So sorry: a small question after your rather long piece, how come any other half decent manages reasonable social welfare?

[jayjay0]

Increasing the tax take from the populace is a good way to increase the states treasure-chest but is also the best way to start ruining a nation.

I was very positively surprised to see when I came here that such a huge slice of the nations lower waged income earners was practically excluded from paying tax at all since they earned under the lower bracket's monetary roof. Therefor making sure that every earned bath, for those that need them the most, lands in their wallet and enables them to use them to use then in the market place.

And it also reduces the number of tax-collectors, government workers that needs to process tax-return papers etc, reducing the governments own cost for collecting the money.

In the states some of the lower paid are exempt from paying tax (that is the ones you can see) If you make under a certain ammount you are not even required to file a tax report. Unfortunately I fall into that group. LOL

[Insight]

As the next general election approaches, we should not be surprised to hear more politicians making promises about extra freebies for voters, especially among the lower-income population. Thailand's economic performance is still subject to risk factors arising from the global recession, so the Abhisit government must be careful not to endanger the nation's fiscal stability. The government should closely monitor its budget deficit to ensure that it does not leave future generations paying for its own indiscretion.

Thoroughly disagree with this. A welfare state, if with the correct implementation with checks and balances, will only help the next generations prosper IMO. Problem is right now that such checks and balances would be incredibly difficult to implement. Only within the past 12 months posters have mentioned that earlier promised education reforms and benefits by Abhisit and co are not being implemented in PT strongholds owing to Poo-yai ban's in the region not wanting the people to receive a positive image of the govt.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Insight

[TAWP]

As the next general election approaches, we should not be surprised to hear more politicians making promises about extra freebies for voters, especially among the lower-income population. Thailand's economic performance is still subject to risk factors arising from the global recession, so the Abhisit government must be careful not to endanger the nation's fiscal stability. The government should closely monitor its budget deficit to ensure that it does not leave future generations paying for its own indiscretion.

Thoroughly disagree with this. A welfare state, if with the correct implementation with checks and balances, will only help the next generations prosper IMO. Problem is right now that such checks and balances would be incredibly difficult to implement. Only within the past 12 months posters have mentioned that earlier promised education reforms and benefits by Abhisit and co are not being implemented in PT strongholds owing to Poo-yai ban's in the region not wanting the people to receive a positive image of the govt.

Cannot these individual be brought up on charges because of this?

Seems to me that failing to follow the decided implementation of new regulations etc for the benefit of ones own party is a local coup...

[citizen33]

Thailand has already made a good start towards basic state welfare provision in the shape of the UC health care scheme and the social security scheme, and in this regard compares well with most other middle income countries. Some observers feared that the coup, and later the Abhisit government, represented an upper-class backlash against the re-distributive social policies of the TRT, PPP and PT Parties. The argument in the past from the Democrats and others had been that free health care was unaffordable, but in fairness both the ruling military council and the present government have continued to support the public health insurance schemes. I'd hazard a guess that going down the road advocated by this editorial would awaken all those old suspicions and carry a far heavier cost in political conflict than persevering with the modest levels of investment needed to maintain the existing programmes.

I scratched my head when a previous poster said that it was the welfare states that caused the present worldwide slump. I thought the bubble started in the only major developed country that did not have universal coverage health care provision - the USA. Of course, that trend towards national health insurance provision, so hated by a segment of American opinion, started in Bismarck's Prussia in the 1880s. Thus the erudite gentleman blaming everything on the welfare state might expect Germany to go under first, but compare its economic performance to that of the good ol' USA. Since the early days of national health insurance, the unspoken assumption in Europe has been that this is necessary to support industrialisation and capitalist production: of the major economies, only America took the opposite view,

Edited November 21, 2010 by citizen33

[TAWP]

My friend [back home] was remitted to a clinic for a possible surgery related to apne. The doctor examining him referred him back as he didn't think his case was serious enough so the first clinic should try some less extensive solution first. It took him 10 months of waiting to get this appointment. Now he doesn't know how long time before he get an set appointment with his original clinic. Socialized medicine rocks...

[Pi Sek]

I think it's very difficult to implement a welfare state to any degree at all until the working population in its entirety start declaring incomes and paying taxes on them. OK, office workers, hotel employees, those in the freight business, etc all pay their taxes but I don't know any farmers, bar girls or building contractors who do.

Tax everyone who is employed - this would obviously require wages to go up - and fine any employees and employers HEAVILY (financially and with the threat of detentional and company closure) found to be in violation. This will massively raise national income through both consumer expenditure and government-sector investment (they've got more tax revenue to spend); although it's debatable whether the harsher regulations would encourage foreign companies to invest here on grounds of stability or they would discourage investment due to higher labour costs.

This would of course require all those at the top to openly declare assets and incomes, and be taxed on them - so is politically very difficult to do. Can you imagine Abhisit telling Jatuporn (or even the local police for that matter) that the state requires him to declare how much he earns (from both his salary and "elsewhere"), how much he has and that he must pay a certain percentage of ALL of his earnings every month? What are the odds that he would be told: 1) **** off; 2) I have nothing and I get 15,000 Baht per month; 3) I'll take to the streets with my hired thugs if you implement this law, and I'll bring every other corrupt politican and their resources with me?

And then, who's going to do the checks? Police? Some other corrupt organisation? It's just asking to made into some kind of protection racket. Can you imagine what a tax inspector would be offered if he went to a Pattaya girlie bar asking for income slips for all the staff?

So sorry: a small question after your rather long piece, how come any other half decent manages reasonable social welfare?

Hey, it wasn't that long...

Still, I'm sorry, I think you missed a word in your question - I assume you meant "any other half decent country"? If so, I'm afraid I have no answer. But then, are you sure that every other half decent country really does manage reasonable social welfare? I wouldn't be so sure. The UK welfare system (supposedly one of the best) is weak, thoroughly exploited, inefficient and is in dire need of reform. The current UK government are trying to reform and facing immense public opposition.

[ryladie99]

I look around the world we live in and see the bubble slowly bursting for the welfare states and the so called Democracies ,. The parasite level of people on freebies is growing to the point where no one wants to work . The fiscal mess is almost insurmountable and still the fools think that it can continue on . Thailand and other countries are looked down on by these same fools , but I respect the Asian culture and the people who work so hard to live . They usually dont have major issues and problems until the Foriegners interfere and want to impose their particular cultures on these lovely people . I dont see a problem with being poor and living on what you earn from real work and making your own way .'

I hear about pollution , drugs , prostitution , crime and all the other issues , But I dont see real help coming forth to solve the problems . I just see people who live on welfare whining like dogs when they dont get a free bone , and all this is in the democratic , financially stuffed , welfare states .

I work , pay taxes , employ people and grow more angry every day with the number of parasites myself and others have to support . This is where the money comes from , Not the government , not the bank CEO or Microsoft and I havent seen a money tree in ages .

I see a massive problem in countries where the welfare is considered to be a lifelong entitlement and it is your right even if you never contributed to the system that provides it . I see a big problem where drug use is almost normal and is paid for via welfare and criminal activities . I see a bigger problem where those in Government and big business rape the finances of a Nation and think they earn it for a very dismal performance and a complete non benefit to the National interest . The financial crisis is only real for those living beyond their means , individuals or Nations alike . yes I live in Australia and it is becoming the biggest parasitical culture on the planet , everything is for free except if your working middle class, Teens dont work , they live on drugs , sex and get paid by us , they get handouts for having babies , underage as well , they get free housing , they get paid for never having worked , they get allowances for anything and everything , They arent worth feeding , because they have never contributed and neither have most of their parents . Maybe the Grandparents did !!! Does this give a parasite rights ????

Leave Asian people alone and let them work out what they can afford . They don't need advice from people who can't even manage a household budget let alone a national economy .

Welcome to America we are facing the same problem you are talking about. I am worry about Thailand and other developing countries that love Hollywood culture... 21th century is getting ugly for Western countries..2% of the Rich are subsidized by 98% of the poor and Middle class. In America you can get help if you are a low income person. So, the Middle class has to pay for everything while the Rich is looking so cute and do nothing to help except making sure they gain most of their earnings. This year President Bush taxes cut for the Rich will expire at the end of this year and the Congress are working on this Bill. Hopefully the Congress will not extend free ride for the Rich. 2011 will be the best year to come...Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours...my take.