Why US Pornmakers Remain Unfazed By Thailand’s ‘Tough Stance’ On The Exploitation Of Women

[brewsterbudgen]

I really have no idea what and where the author gets his information from

for starters girls are paid 10 000-12 000 per scene

They also sign waivers

So they are well aware of what they doing.

Also i personally know 5 girls who have ben featured in his movies and i can assure you they were well aware and were well paid and as a result of the movies now charge double of not triple for their time and are in high demand from the tourists.

Also a large number of the girls do webcaming, and many are from gogo bars. So if they not worried about locals seeing them naked and doing it on the cam, i really do not understand how all over sudden they mind.

If anything, to avoid being charged with prostitution they have come up with this excuse, "i did not know, he tricked me"

Most definitely not the case on the Klaussextour site.

[dekbahnnok]

Just a case of everyone exploiting everyone else. The girls end up at the bottom of the pile, but I doubt they could be described as an 'innocent' party.

the going rate used to be 2,000 baht....I once saw a friend's sister in law in an American guy's hand shot porn purchased on the net....my friend and his wife were sitting next to me....

[TAWP]

Forget about the porn for a minute, how did he walk from this

"drugs ( marijuana, raw opium) and a loaded gun – a Smith & Wesson .38 and an long out of date Thai visa. The last offense alone would normally result in detention then deportation."

That is what I want to know incase, well...good to know.

[mark45y]

Tony Poer selected and recruited the girls, then filmed them and put the images up on websites. The fact that the girls, 'Allowed' themselves to be filmed, is a somewhat debatable excuse given that someone as manipulative as Poer, is doing the persuading.

Of course something needs to be done so that girls and their parents from the poorer regions of Thailand no longer feel that this trade, is likely to increase their standard of living, faster than most other methods of 'Employment'. Maybe if the multitude of 'Middle-men' who buy their rice, paid a greater proportion of their profits to the farmers, things might be different.

Thank Buddha someone actually said something sensible and conscious.

So this guy comes to Thailand with the sole intention of paying poor, uneducated - in most cases desperate and in terms of making videos for distribution 'naive' - girls for sex, only to then broadcast himself around the world dominating them like dogs. Hmmmm - sounds like a really nice guy, I am sure his parents and fellow countrymen are proud. It is unbelievable how many people jump on this thread saying stuff to the tune of ,'the girls are acting illegally by prostituting themselves', and 'they have consented so what's the problem'. Sometimes I wonder if I am one of very few humans left with any compassion at all. Most of these women will be from the North East and the North, where sexual dignity and modesty is, contrary to popular belief very important and innate in the majority. Yet these women are selling their self-respect, dignity, integrity, culture, values and their family name for 1,000 -2,000 baht a time. Ask yourself why? Why are so many women in this position, and why are there so many men waiting in the wings to exploit their social status? What does this say about us as people, as humans, as foreigners, as sons of women and as brothers of sisters...imagine that was your daughter, your mum or your wife. Before you judge these women and condemn them as lazy, money grabbing whores, who love sex and consent to their actions , go and read some history, some case studies and facts on Thailand. Learn the reasons why this industry exists as it does...I guarantee once you know the truth behind the miniskirts and smiles you will change the way you think and certainly think twice before making such silly statements that focus on everything but the real issues at hand.

Suggested Reading:

Pira Sudham - Tales of Thailand

Pira Sudham - People of Esarn

Rise and Fall of the Absolute Thai Mona***y ( Foundations of the Modern Thai State - From Feudalism to Peripheral Capitalism) - Chaiyan Rajchagool

The guy that was dominating them and treating them like dogs was a Brit, "Nasty Nigel." He owns a website called asian streetmeat. He is a real nasty person. Both Tony and Nigel are easy to find on the net if you doubt my point. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but the really bad thing about Tony is he didn't wear a condom. Nasty Nigel as nasty as he was wore a condom most of the time. It might be worthwhile to watch the Tony movies so you will know who not to pick up in Pattaya. Scary stuff. Most of the ladies he uses worked at go go bars and made 30,000 plus baht per month (save your tears for the poor Thai farm girls because his models were Pattaya well paid pros).

i could be wrong, but i am 99% sure he is the creamy pie not the streetmeat

Guy from streetmeat is bold, little out of shape.

Yes. The guy from streetmeat is a bald 50 year old Brit, Nasty Nigel. He treats the ladies very poorly. I like naked ladies but I can't watch the stuff. I never liked women crying. The Tony stuff I have seen is pretty vanilla as those things go. I have never heard of the Klaussextour stuff so can't comment.

[Capex]

I think what most posters are missing is the (if you read the original AD article) is the fact that all of this guy's exploits have been removed from ALL Pattaya news publications and that he is back operating on the street as if nothing happened!!! Takes a serious amount of tea money for that to happen!!! TIT!!!!!

[kuffki]

I think what most posters are missing is the (if you read the original AD article) is the fact that all of this guy's exploits have been removed from ALL Pattaya news publications and that he is back operating on the street as if nothing happened!!! Takes a serious amount of tea money for that to happen!!! TIT!!!!!

Not sure what you trying to say. This is the normal life of Thailand just like all gogo bars, bars, clubs and everyone and everything else.

All of the mentioned break pretty much every single law and yet all are operating just fine. Just like gogo or bar gets raided and everyone gets arrested-next day business back as usual.

Just like driving without a licence is NOT really a big drama, just 400-500 baht fine and can keep on driving. I do not think i have heard of a country where this is possible.

[kuffki]

Forget about the porn for a minute, how did he walk from this

"drugs ( marijuana, raw opium) and a loaded gun – a Smith & Wesson .38 and an long out of date Thai visa. The last offense alone would normally result in detention then deportation."

That is what I want to know incase, well...good to know.

When you know "right" people in Thailand, drugs can turn out to be a fake and gun was in fact a toy. and all the video equipment was to film beautiful nature of Thailand. while in the mean time the "friend" just bought a new car

[bartender100]

Forget about the porn for a minute, how did he walk from this

"drugs ( marijuana, raw opium) and a loaded gun – a Smith & Wesson .38 and an long out of date Thai visa. The last offense alone would normally result in detention then deportation."

That is what I want to know incase, well...good to know.

When you know "right" people in Thailand, drugs can turn out to be a fake and gun was in fact a toy. and all the video equipment was to film beautiful nature of Thailand. while in the mean time the "friend" just bought a new car

Thats actually why i said Andrew is sticking his neck right on this, if its been taken down from all the press, and he's still digging on it, i feel heshould be careful on this one. Now its all over the net forums and BB's

[luangtom]

hel_l, the Thai media would have ya believe that foreign visitors are the reason each and every town, large and small, has a "Soi Fai Daeng". They told us that during R&R days of the Vietnam-era, they told us that in the 80's and they tell us this now.

Thailand has had ladies of ill-repute for ages. The brothels and industry existed during the reign of past leaders and under that of current leaders. It is not a new phenom. In talking to old elders of villages, it existed during their youth and was spoken of only in sparse terms and with a certain mysticism. It is not new.

I doubt that the ladies involved are so naive as to not know that the gent filming is not going to show the video or stills to others. I also doubt that they are unwillingly filmed or forced into it. They made money from doing it and now there are some that realize it was a mistake and wish to be seen as victims. Period.

Just how far this "crackdown" goes is up to the BIB and how much they wish to garner from those involved. It is never going to go away. It is good PR to show they care.

[Insight]

Thats actually why i said Andrew is sticking his neck right on this, if its been taken down from all the press, and he's still digging on it, i feel heshould be careful on this one. Now its all over the net forums and BB's

Reading some of Andrew's other work it quickly becomes obvious this is familiar territory for him. Very admirable, but can't help but be concerned for the guy!

[KeyserSoze01]

Amazing Thailand.

The entire country seethes hypocrisy.

The only thing more ironic are the farang who all have an opinion based on their western background. I've got news for all of you, you aren't in Kansas anymore. It's all about the baht, always has been and always will be. Of course the charges and evidence will disappear due to tea money being paid to those who pull the strings.

Most likely the only reason the bar girls went to the police was due to their feeling of being cheated out of $$$ when making the films. Even the mention of bar girls being innocent victims makes me want to throw up. .

Honor and discretion are traits unheard of in Thailand and let's not even mention the aspect of 'face'.

[evanson]

Just a case of everyone exploiting everyone else. The girls end up at the bottom of the pile, but I doubt they could be described as an 'innocent' party.

"At the bottom of the pile" ???

Really??? Making more money they probably ever could given their backgrounds. Making additional money being filmed and consenting to it, assuming they weren't conned. Then get discover that the movie industry is profiting from the videos and they become unhappy with what they already agreed to. Suddenly they are "exploited women".

Using that definition they'd have to shut down Pattaya and other venues but how likely is that where the word Gxd is spelled = money

Well there's the rub, 'given their backgrounds'. If it were a woman from an impoverished background slaving all day on minimum wage, in any other country, they would still 'just about' manage to pay rent/buy food.If you are broke in Thailand, whether you be farang or Thai, there aren't many opportunities to enable you to subsist. The farang retreats to their Welfare State, the MAJORITY of Thais either have to accept 6k or less per month, or sell their a*rse.

But it must be reiterated that the vast majority of Thais of whatever age/gender would prefer the former to the latter. A fact almost totally missing from any discussion on this forum.

[crazydrummerpauly]

When some girls discovered this they went to police for help

Yeah - right.

"Excuse me officer, I was just browsing illegal porn sites on the web and discovered to my horror I feature in one of the websites. I admit I had paid sex with this man and I admit he paid me extra to have us filmed but only on the understanding that the footage wouldn't be available in Thailand. I appreciate that I have committed at least 3 arrestable offences under Thai law but please could you arrest him anyway so my honour can be satisfied".

Must happen all the time.

Hardeha - brilliant - love it !

[kmj]

[

]

But just days later reports of Poer’s arrest vanished from the Pattaya Times, Pattaya Daily News, Pattaya Today, Pattaya One news and all other newspapers in Pattaya which carried the story online.

At Pattaya Times a spokeman said that ‘all newspapers’ were asked to remove all online references to Poer. Did the police make this request, or someone else? No newspaper would go on record. But a source at one said it was police, and at another, that it was not an official of any kind, but ’someone more powerful’.

[[/Qoute]]

Spineless Pattaya press ride again...

[mark45y]

Forget about the porn for a minute, how did he walk from this

"drugs ( marijuana, raw opium) and a loaded gun – a Smith & Wesson .38 and an long out of date Thai visa. The last offense alone would normally result in detention then deportation."

That is what I want to know incase, well...good to know.

When you know "right" people in Thailand, drugs can turn out to be a fake and gun was in fact a toy. and all the video equipment was to film beautiful nature of Thailand. while in the mean time the "friend" just bought a new car

Thats actually why i said Andrew is sticking his neck right on this, if its been taken down from all the press, and he's still digging on it, i feel heshould be careful on this one. Now its all over the net forums and BB's

Credit where credit is due. Stickmanbangkok a month Before Andrew.

Quotes snipped from Stickmanbangkok October 31, 2010.

Known to some as "Thai Tony", and sometimes referred to as Beckham, as in David Beckham, because of his good looks, he is the brains, cameraman, producer, director and cock behind the movies available at a raft of porn pay sites.

He's the 2010 version of Thailand's first farang Internet porn star, "Naughty Nigel". The American is much younger and more handsome than the creepy Brit who starred in similar movies several years ago. Whereas Nigel was but the star of the show, the American does everything himself. Rumour has it that Nigel used to work for 10,000 baht or less a movie, whereas our American allegedly pays the girls that much or more to star alongside him.

He offers them 10,000 baht, sometimes more, with payment is contingent upon the girl providing proof that they are 18 years of age, as well as signing a model release. He is obviously covering himself from a legal point of view in his native US.

Apparently one of his tricks is to enlist the infamous Thai girl known as Lulusexbomb. They go into a bar together and she helps him enlist a girl if that girl proves difficult to convince. He short-times the girl a couple of times to check if they will be a suitable candidate.

What would be required to settle a case of this seriousness, that had attracted so much publicity and with so much evidence against the accused? If I had to hazard a guess, 3 - 5 million baht would be in the ball park. There may have been complainants to pacify too.

The original reports that appeared on the most popular Pattaya news websites have been removed! The link to the story on one site comes up with a nothing found error whereas at the other major site which covered the original arrest, the link diverts to another article. What's going on?

It's highly suspicious when factually correct news articles are retrospectively removed. That this happened at more than one news source is no coincidence.

Were these news sites threatened? Did the heavies turn up at the door? Or was it merely that they were told there would be little cooperation on future stories if the news of the arrest wasn't removed? Can the media really be so easily influenced?

Stickmanbangkok October 31. Andrew drummond November 24.

I would think Andrew got the idea for the story reading Stickmanbangkok.

Edited November 24, 2010 by mark45y

[gbswales]

Those girls poor? he's relatively rich? go figure - it's disgraceful

Surely if the Government aided the 'poor' girls from the 'countryside' they would not have to resort to prostitution, which is what they are lets face it, prostitutes (women who sell sex for money) and why aren't those girls in jail ? I thought prostitution was illegal here ?

so a lets get this straiight if you employ poor people people to work for a few pounds a day gutting fish, cooking, doing laundry etc that is morally OK but if you pay someone many times that amount for sex or an hour or two filming -porn it is morally wrong. Any form of work involves selling yourself. Ok it may not be legal in Thailand but are you saying that if you engage the services of an adult at whatever the going rate is then you are morally wrong simply on the basis that the person is poor and needs the money?

It all seems a bit double standard to me. Of course.misleading people or coercing them in some way is quite different and is exploitation. However unless you own your own business you are being exploited by someone. Why is sex work seen as so different to anything else - if I was a girl and was offered the choice between cleaning filthy toiletsf for £3 a day or having sex in front of a camera a couple of times a week then I know which I would choose - the key point is that it would be MY choice

[javel]

I guess we are talking about the "creampie", and the "suckdolls" series here?

Most models had an episode in both the 2 series. They wore heavy makeup, freshly shaved, and waved goodbye to the camera with a smile in both episodes, so they were well aware about what they were doing.

When this is said, one could wonder if the later models in the series actually were 18 years old? Especially models like Air, and maybe also Powder.

But then again, age of thais is not easy to guess for us farangs.

J!!!

[mark45y]

I guess we are talking about the "creampie", and the "suckdolls" series here?

Most models had an episode in both the 2 series. They wore heavy makeup, freshly shaved, and waved goodbye to the camera with a smile in both episodes, so they were well aware about what they were doing.

When this is said, one could wonder if the later models in the series actually were 18 years old? Especially models like Air, and maybe also Powder.

But then again, age of thais is not easy to guess for us farangs.

J!!!

That is against the law in the US and they really do care. He had so much international exposure I doubt if he would have taken that kind of risk. US citizens are liable for prosecution if they violate the law in Thailand, especially that one. They don't even have to be under age if he makes it appear that they are under age that is enough to go to jail. Some guy named Max found that out.

[starcatcher]

Anyway I never will understand: while the censorship deletes cigarettes and nipples on tv, 5 y.o. children look together with their families movies like Ong Bak etc. - as more blood and violence as more popular.

When I had a discussion with a few Thais about this, they said, because porns are not good for children. But any association between the missing censorship on violence in videos and the violence of young Thais (you can read everyday in the newspapers about) they not want to see.

In the same way it is funny, when the girls go to the police to complain, because - as many members before me said already - it is illegal as well to have sex against money (in this country) And when someone has such an equipment like this guy, it additional should be clear that this photos are not only for the private photo album

But however: also this guy was stupid, as for sure he knew that making porns is a crime here as well. And if he not knew, he's even more stupid as he should inform himself before he starts in another country doing so. And it also seems the have forgotten one thing: working w/o work permit hahaha

So all should be arrested, also the Thais for "working" in front of cameras. Cause if they say, they made for free, it would be the biggest joke ever

Just my 5 cents...

Edited November 24, 2010 by starcatcher

[mark45y]

Did anyone ever think it was the cops who went to the women instead of the women going to the cops?

[BangkokDennis]

This is all old news. Go to Stickman's website and get the real info on this from his column of a few weekls ago.

[asiawatcher]

Anyone with a small amount of sense knows the girls were paid for sex, however its not what you assume to be true its what you can prove. All that can be proven is he filmed the girls having sex then distributed without their permission.

All he needed was a one paragraph "release form' as standard in any 'extras' work. One paragraph and all this would have gone away. Smart ass super stud with a camera and gets himself locked up. Yup - stupid is as stupid does Forest.

[mark45y]

Anyone with a small amount of sense knows the girls were paid for sex, however its not what you assume to be true its what you can prove. All that can be proven is he filmed the girls having sex then distributed without their permission.

All he needed was a one paragraph "release form' as standard in any 'extras' work. One paragraph and all this would have gone away. Smart ass super stud with a camera and gets himself locked up. Yup - stupid is as stupid does Forest.

1. He had signed release forms. That was never an issue.

2. Estimates are he made around 35 million baht from his productions.

3. He is not locked up.

4. All references to his case have been removed from Pattaya newspapers.

This of course has all been mentioned before in this thread.

Edited November 24, 2010 by mark45y

[wotaplonker]

of course they are unfazed, Thailand is irrelevant, they can simply film thai girls in the usa

if the government is so concerned about porn and the sex industry in thailand, pattaya etc

simply shut it down, they will find though that the world and his dog could not give a fxxk

Cheers Wap

[mark45y]

This is all old news. Go to Stickman's website and get the real info on this from his column of a few weekls ago.

Read post number #75 for dates and quotes from the Stickmanbangkok column.

[Beetlejuice]

Anyone with a small amount of sense knows the girls were paid for sex, however its not what you assume to be true its what you can prove. All that can be proven is he filmed the girls having sex then distributed without their permission.

All he needed was a one paragraph "release form' as standard in any 'extras' work. One paragraph and all this would have gone away. Smart ass super stud with a camera and gets himself locked up. Yup - stupid is as stupid does Forest.

1. He had signed release forms. That was never an issue.

2. Estimates are he made around 35 million baht from his productions.

3. He is not locked up.

4. All references to his case have been removed from Pattaya newspapers.

This of course has all been mentioned before in this thread.

The number 2 quote above is a great mystery to me.

How do these porn producers actually make money?

I mean, it only needs one person to buy the DVD, then upload it on-line onto a website so everyone can view it for free and that`s it, nobody need purchase the thing.

So how does porn actually make money?

[fridgemagnet]

Did anyone ever think it was the cops who went to the women instead of the women going to the cops?

Hmmm - if he had arranged 'friendship money' with the responsible superintendent, as all other Thai porn makers do, there would have been no trouble.

I bet he's had to pay some now.

[BigBikeBKK]

Anyone with a small amount of sense knows the girls were paid for sex, however its not what you assume to be true its what you can prove. All that can be proven is he filmed the girls having sex then distributed without their permission.

All he needed was a one paragraph "release form' as standard in any 'extras' work. One paragraph and all this would have gone away. Smart ass super stud with a camera and gets himself locked up. Yup - stupid is as stupid does Forest.

1. He had signed release forms. That was never an issue.

2. Estimates are he made around 35 million baht from his productions.

3. He is not locked up.

4. All references to his case have been removed from Pattaya newspapers.

This of course has all been mentioned before in this thread.

The number 2 quote above is a great mystery to me.

How do these porn producers actually make money?

I mean, it only needs one person to buy the DVD, then upload it on-line onto a website so everyone can view it for free and that`s it, nobody need purchase the thing.

So how does porn actually make money?

Are you really that naive? The pornography industry has larger revenues than Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple and Netflix combined.

Pornography Time Statistics

• Every second - $3,075.64 is being spent on pornography.

• Every second - 28,258 internet users are viewing pornography.

• Every second - 372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines.

• Every 39 minutes: a new pornographic video is being created in the United States.

[surangw]

Yes prostitution is ilegal but what we have here is a thai criminal (girl) and farang criminal.

thai logic, the bigger the money,the bigger the criminal

[LingLek]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.