Mai Dai

[Eastender]

My undestadning is;

gin mai dai = can't eat it

mai dai yin = can't hear it

So why the different word order in these two examples and how can I determine word order for other cases? Is it to do with placing emphasis, with verb acting as noun, or what?

Thanks for any help.

[mikenyork]

Although mai dai yin has the meaning of "I can't hear", it doesn't mean that literally. Its literal meaning is " I didn't hear". The equivalent statement about eating would be mai dai gin "I didn't eat"

[elliss]

good info ,

if i cannot hear/ understand a statement,

i say ,, arrinearr .

exscuse spellin :jap:

[Gaccha]

Although mai dai yin has the meaning of "I can't hear", it doesn't mean that literally. Its literal meaning is " I didn't hear". The equivalent statement about eating would be mai dai gin "I didn't eat"

Yep.

I might just add some points:

I think of 'dai yin' as one word. I suspect so do dictionaries. So it is in any event a slightly misleading encounter.

But there are certainly times when 'mai dai~VERB' is used in Thai. But let's be clear: generally, if you want to say "can't" then use this structure: 'VERB~ mai dai'.

The structure 'mai dai~ VERB' has two primary functions. To indicate the past tense negative (so long as not a stative verb like 'being dead' or 'being married')and as an immediate riposte to some assertion made by the other speaker (this could be present tense).

I would also point out that 'mai dai' only refers to certain types of 'cans'. If you can't do something physically then you use 'VERB~ bpen'. The coffee shop lady told me today that she couldn't make coffee, by using the VERB~bepn phrase she indicated the coffee machine was broken.

There are other concepts of 'can' as well.

[sarahsbloke]

also to bear in mind mai dai (different tone) can also mean 'didn't get'

[Rikker]

[Note: If you need Thai phrases romanized use thai2english.com or similar sites. I don't like romanization so while I've tried to use it I haven't included it every single time.]

I think ได้ยิน dai-yin behaves differently because of its atypical grammar.

The actual word for "to hear" is historically just ยิน yin, as evidenced in more than a dozen languages related to Thai that all have a version of this word, with the same meaning.

But for whatever reason, in Thai the word ยิน by itself no longer means "to hear"--in modern usage it's always paired with ได้. So we might expect ยินไม่ได้ yin mai dai to mean "I can't hear", analogous to กินไม่ได้ or อ่านไม่ได้. But because nowadays ได้ always precedes ยิน, this kind of phrasing becomes archaic or even ungrammatical. So you just say ไม่ได้ยิน mai dai-yin.

That said, the senses have kind of have their own grammar, too. Here are some sentences to help compare meanings:

ดูไม่ได้ duu mai dai "I can't (bring myself to) watch"

ไม่ได้ดู mai dai duu "I didn't watch" (whatever it is we're talking about)

มองไม่เห็น mong mai hen "I can't see" (either because something is blocking your view, or because you are physically unable to)

ไม่ได้มอง mai dai mong "I didn't look" (at whatever it is we're talking about)

ไม่ได้กลิ่น mai dai klin "I can't/didn't smell (it)" (literally, I didn't receive the smell--note that กลิ่น is a noun)

When you want to specify that someone is physically incapable of a particular sense, you can also make the body part the subject of the phrase:

หูไม่ได้ยิน huu mai dai-yin "physically unable to hear" (literally, "ears don't hear"), which could be temporary, like after a loud explosion, or might mean the same thing as หูหนวก "deaf"

ตามองไม่เห็น taa mong mai hen "physically unable to see", which again might be temporary, or might mean the same thing as ตาบอด "blind"

จมูกไม่ได้กลิ่น jamuuk mai dai klin "physically unable to smell"

[rgs2001uk]

As mentioned by Rikker, ได้ยิน is a funny one for me, are you saying cannot hear or did not hear.

I have never heard, ยินไม่ได้, always ไม่ได้ยิน.

ไม่ได้ before the verb means did not, and after the verb means cannot.

[RickBradford]

I would also point out that 'mai dai' only refers to certain types of 'cans'. If you can't do something physically then you use 'VERB~ bpen'. The coffee shop lady told me today that she couldn't make coffee, by using the VERB~bepn phrase she indicated the coffee machine was broken.

I have seen some sources give a slightly different version:

Using ขับรถ (khap rot=to drive) as an example

ไม่เป็น (mai bpen) as 'I cannot drive (because I don't know how)

ไม่ไหว (mai wai) as 'I cannot drive' (because of a physical issue, maybe disability or fatigue)

Are these definitions correct? This might indicate that the coffee shop lady was saying she didn't know how to operate the equipment, not that it was broken. I think I have heard that usage in 7-11 when a particularly obtuse worker looked at my electricity bill with an air of panic before waving me off with a phrase including ไม่เป็น.

[Peppy]

also to bear in mind mai dai (different tone) can also mean 'didn't get'

Yes, and no. ไม่ได้ "mai dai" can mean "didn't get", as in the common phrase "ไม่ได้อะไรเลย/mai dai arai loey/didn't get anything"--but it's the same words with the same tones, no change!

I would also point out that 'mai dai' only refers to certain types of 'cans'. If you can't do something physically then you use 'VERB~ bpen'. The coffee shop lady told me today that she couldn't make coffee, by using the VERB~bepn phrase she indicated the coffee machine was broken.

I have seen some sources give a slightly different version:

Using ขับรถ (khap rot=to drive) as an example

ไม่เป็น (mai bpen) as 'I cannot drive (because I don't know how)

ไม่ไหว (mai wai) as 'I cannot drive' (because of a physical issue, maybe disability or fatigue)

Are these definitions correct? This might indicate that the coffee shop lady was saying she didn't know how to operate the equipment, not that it was broken. I think I have heard that usage in 7-11 when a particularly obtuse worker looked at my electricity bill with an air of panic before waving me off with a phrase including ไม่เป็น.

I agree with Rick's understanding that the woman didn't know how to use the coffee machine. I think if the machine were actually broken, she would have said ไม่ได้.

ไม่เป็น = cannot (lack of knowledge, training or ability) - as per Rick's example

ไม่ได้ = cannot (because it's impossible, inadvisable, or prohibited)

These two forms are often interchangeable. I think in most cases where someone can't do something because of lack of knowledge they'll use ไม่เป็น--but if you're unable to do something then it's probably correct to say that it's impossible to do it (or inadvisable to try), so using ไม่ได้ wouldn't be wrong. It really just depends on which aspect of the lack of ability you want to emphasize.

ไม่ไหว is more like "can't stand"-- the speaker is physically or mentally exhausted and is unable or unwilling to continue.

[Eastender]

Thanks to you all for your useful explanatios.