Grace Hotel Bought By An Arab

[Ice Maiden]

Yeah, the poor guy carn't handle the heat so he's showing his great ability of swearing. The intelligence shines through . Only one prob though, someone ought to tell him naughty words don't show on posts. Oh and they are not big or clever

Zaz - Read away, read away

[davethailand]

I think I've missed something here, what are they fighting about...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wild1 has a thing for arabs and feels that it needs to be broadcasted everyday.

No problem with that but its getting boring

[zaz]

And there was me trying to defend em from some of the abuse they were getting, but not even I like em that much...!!

I think we all get the jist of it anyway - live and let live and all that.

What more can there be said...?

Edited August 18, 2005 by zaz

[longway]

Longway, opothai, if you want to flame back and forth please exchange emails. Considering this topic had the potential to bring out some real nastiness in people, all posters have dealt with it quite maturely. You two however are the exceptions. Calm down.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok whatever. i just dont think i need someone like opothai to tell me who the real racists are.

pls show me what his vaild points are? if u want to point out faults of other races, pls look at ur own race first.

he's not the worst kind of racist, but he is one without a doubt, why is pointing that out immature, there was one post that gave him a thumbs up.

people in the uk may feel uncomfortable with the effects of immigration, but thats different from saying that arabs, japanese, indians and pakistanis are the real racists. sickening in some ways.

Edited August 18, 2005 by longway

[TokyoT]

pls show me what his vaild points are? if u want to point out faults of other races, pls look at ur own race first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO a valid point made by opothani "intergration of other cultures into another country never goes smoothly"

I am not in complete agreement with everything that opothani has stated, but I do feel he has something worth listening to. Maybe the way he phrased it was a bit over the top by asking the question of who the real rasists are. But the actions of minority groups “integrating” into another land do not tend to lend themselves to a welcoming attitude (this also a point when looking at farang in Thailand – not many of us put enough effort into learning the Thai language (myself included)) from the locals. Which only helps to breedbuild more racism.

It really is a shame that there is some much racism still left in the world – from all races.

[longway]

pls show me what his vaild points are? if u want to point out faults of other races, pls look at ur own race first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO a valid point made by opothani "intergration of other cultures into another country never goes smoothly"

I am not in complete agreement with everything that opothani has stated, but I do feel he has something worth listening to. Maybe the way he phrased it was a bit over the top by asking the question of who the real rasists are. But the actions of minority groups “integrating” into another land do not tend to lend themselves to a welcoming attitude (this also a point when looking at farang in Thailand – not many of us put enough effort into learning the Thai language (myself included)) from the locals. Which only helps to breedbuild more racism.

It really is a shame that there is some much racism still left in the world – from all races.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll make this my final post of this side topic, and stop banging on about it...

I did not diagree with that statement by Opothai in any of my posts, tho i dont see how that statement alllows him to point fingers at other people. europeans do not integrate better than other races by a long shot. ive lived in many countries and have yet to see evidence for Opothai's odd beliefs.

To blame all the problems of integration in the UK on the immigrants is just too rich also. Why should they give up all aspects of their history and culture to fit in, the UK is not perfect. For myself I like to take on what I believe is the best of both worlds. IMO the UK is richer place for having people of many races. There are issues sure but they are not summed up by Opothai.

Will those farang in thailand become completely thai? i doubt it, most will cling to their culture to varying degrees. of course, the more generations their descendents stay in this country the more 'thai' they will become.

this is what is happening in the uk too.

i can only respond to the way he wrote his post, if he meant something different then he should in the future be more careful about what he posts.

engaging brain before fingers is not a prequisite to posting. i include myself in that.

[opothai]

this is a forum about peoples views

my views ar not the same as some people obviosly

only time will tell over this issue about the grace area, there is a similar topic about this on the pattaya forum and i have personaly seen the area discussed, and in my view it is not a pretty sight.

this is not about racism it is about 'when in rome' etc

when i visit a foreign land i respect their ways and adapt as with most visitors.

what i do not like is when people go to another country and do not respect the ways of that country but expect the country they are visiting to change to their beliefs and ways.

before any body gets on the racist trip, let me assure them i am married to a foreigner have many ethnic friends and a lot of ethnics in my town agree with my views.

ps if anybody does not understand what my point is

[longway]

this is a forum about peoples views

my views ar not the same as some people obviosly only time will tell over this issue about the grace area, there is a similar topic about this on the pattaya forum and i have personaly seen the area discussed, and in my view it is not a pretty sight.

this is not about racism it is about 'when in rome' etc

when i visit a foreign land i respect their ways and adapt as with most visitors.

what i do not like is when people go to another country and do not respect the ways of that country but expect the country they are visiting to change to their beliefs and ways.before any body gets on the racist trip, let me assure them i am married to a foreigner have many ethnic friends and a lot of ethnics in my town agree with my views.

ps if anybody does not understand what my point is

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this post more in some parts, less in others. i notice here you don't contend westerners do what you say better than anybody else, and they dont either.

his 1st post. IMO saying something very different.

intergration of other cultures into another country never goes smoothly.

in england we see indians, pakistani, arab, they are welcomed by the government and encouraged to intergrate but very rarely do, they set up a community and take over the area and a lot of these areas become no go areas for british people,i have noticed the area around the grace becoming mainly arab and in time i think that foreign nationals will feel uncomfortable going there. it is on a par with the japanese areas of patpong, westerners are definately not welcomed warmly.

now you must ask who are the real racists, westerners intergrate all over the world but i have not seen a predominately english area or french area or american area have you ? 

this is just tosh. offensive, arrogant, closed minded, untrue. at best half truths with no sense of perpective on the hows and whys. no real perception of whats actually around him. this is a sensitive issue for many and is subject to manipulation by very nasty people, tread carefully here.

if you want to say moslems have more problems than most adapting because of their religious beliefs then i would say is true. if you are not talking about racism then why use the word? you used it first not me.

ys i know i said i would not post again on this issue. putting the 2 together was what i wanted to show.

Edited August 19, 2005 by longway

[opothai]

putting the two threads together they are basically saying the same thing to me.

a british society is now a multicultural society however we now have too many societies mixed in with one and it will not work.

thai society in the main cities are now multicultural and that is not working either.

basically too many societies mixed into one breeds misunderstanding, distrust, violence, and envy

exmple

in america so called free and tolerant society take a look at the major cities and you will find all fo these traits, we tend in england to follow america's lead and if this is going to happen in england then i am cocerned for future generations.

[davethailand]

As i've lived in  thailand and most parts of south east asia for the past 3 years, all i can say is that Thai people generally are not overt racists.

Thais were never racists..They can be openminded and welcoming, just as us westerners can be racists, homophobes, or whatever. As others have noted on this forum, many Arabs  seek women  relationships just as tg's seek relationships  with western men, Arab people are generally interested to hear what westerners have to say about a wide variety of topics.

What I have noticed is a kind of institutionalized racism on the part of thailands' expat so called leaders, who make disgraceful racist comments in full public view on a regular basis. This can only set a harmful example to the general population. There's also a feeling that foreigners are entertaining figures not to be taken too seriously, as can be seen on Thai TV every week. As long as you play the part of the cute farang it's ok, but when you step outside that box and express strong opinions it can occasionally cause problems.

Whatever unconscious racism exists among the general population I often put them down as general cluelessness and lack of awareness. My boss was a perfect example of that. He lived in the states for 3 years, and had been working in Japan with people from the UK, Canada, NZ,Saudi Arabia,Qatar the UAE and a lot of other countries....on a daily basis for years. But after all that I still don't think he had a clue what makes Arabs or Niggers or Chinks tick, or have any of you ever given the slightest thought to the reality of the experiences Arabs face in Thailand. In general, you'll always be a farang in Thailand. if you can accept that, you'll do just fine. But you have to 'know your place'.

I hope you all really do get the bigger picture.......

And i really am sorry for brewing this topic up, although it has shown a lot of true colors

opo and dave no offence guys,just have a lot of arab friends in thailand and had to bring all this up to really find out true intentions.....    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have arab friends also, Same as all other nations etc, Its a shame that because of a a few ****holes the whole group gets a bad reputation.

[wild1]

Actually racism exists everywhere. no matter where u look

It's just a matter of who hates who, who fears who, and who discriminates against who.

let me just share an experience.!

One time I was invited to a party in France, so i also brought my friends.

My friends were Indians.

Once these guys got in the house, my friends started eyeing me with disliked faces.

At first I didn't know. I asked my Indian friends to eat something, soon another of my french mates cleaned the table and put the snacks and food away,so no more food was supplied afterwards.

Additionally, my Indian friends were dancing with the musicand just kicking back, as my french friends were whispering with insults saying "Bugger" and so on... so i left the room. Indian friends didn't even know that they have been insulted.

After they left the house, none of my French friends said " BYe"

It's not because they are uncomfortable with strangers, they were looking at them with "i'm gonna smack you 1" faces. Since I witnessed this incident, I've realized that many types of people favour certian people only and not certain other people.

[longway]

putting the two threads together they are basically saying the same thing to me.

a british society is now a multicultural society however we now have too many societies mixed in with one and it will not work.

thai society in the main cities are now multicultural and that is not working either.

basically too many societies mixed into one breeds misunderstanding, distrust, violence, and envy

exmple

in america so called free and tolerant society take a look at the major cities and you will find all fo these traits, we tend in england to follow america's lead and if this is going to happen in england then i am cocerned for future generations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ay its grim up north

[Dara]

Hiya guys, i just heard that a deal has been finalised and an arab from Qatar has just bought 40% of the grace hotel and a 22% stake in the royal benja hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the news today - BMA is planning to develop Nana 3/1 into "Arabian Street" - a tourist venue similar to Khaosan Road........

[Rinrada]

Hiya guys, i just heard that a deal has been finalised and an arab from Qatar has just bought 40% of the grace hotel and a 22% stake in the royal benja hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the news today - BMA is planning to develop Nana 3/1 into "Arabian Street" - a tourist venue similar to Khaosan Road........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone gota tell them that its been an "Arabian Street Enclave" for at least 20 years now.......Naw.. on the other hand best not to...dont wake them up....might lose face or sum-fink.

[Slim Chance]

I went to the Grace Hotel a couple weeks ago and shot pool. I was the only falang around. People were friendly. Arab guy at the table next to me was wearing an American flag t-shirt. I eat at the Arab restaurants and the staff and customers are no less polite than anywhere else.

Foreigners complaining about foreigners. Whatta joke.

If you guys are going to attack people for dressing funny, being fat and too loud you’re going to look real foolish.

The only hostile people I seem to keep bumping into are falangs. I won’t mention any nationalities, but some of us just don‘t make good ambassadors.

Racists suck the big one. Consider going back home. You embarrass progressive white folks.

[PattayaEx]

I went to the Grace Hotel a couple weeks ago and shot pool. I was the only falang around. People were friendly. Arab guy at the table next to me was wearing an American flag t-shirt. I eat at the Arab restaurants and the staff and customers are no less polite than anywhere else.

Foreigners complaining about foreigners. Whatta joke.

If you  guys are going to attack people for dressing funny, being fat and too loud you’re going to look real foolish.

The only hostile people I seem to keep bumping into are falangs. I won’t mention any nationalities, but some of us just don‘t make good ambassadors.

Racists suck the big one. Consider going back home. You embarrass progressive white folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put slim...i have to give it to you....thank you

[smb]

well i cant unberstand why some people try to judje all arabs as if we are all talk loudly,fat,hate americans and all other things that i read from some guys in this forum.!!!!!!!!!

we arabs are exactly like any other culture.we have the good and the bad,we have the strict and the open minded,we also have racsit people just like any other country.

now can i judje all americans on one or two or even 100?!!!!!!! NO

i hope the people who talked about us in that way should think a bit coz not all your culture are angles.

about the women wearing all black

u wouldnt understand it because u dont know about our culture or religin and u have to try to accept other cultures and religion

there are some people in latin america eat human flesh now that i cant understand and neither do u but i cant judje them untill at least i read about them .

we arabs or most dont hate u guys.we do blame your goverment for many things but we dont blame the american citzen.i know alot of americans who live in oman (where i come from) and dubai .ask them about us

about the subject

yes i was told that it is owned by an arab but that dosent mean that there wont be any alcohol there .

most arabs come to thailand for medical reasons and thats why u see alot of them in that hospital. u will also see them in nana grace hotel and the hotels srounding it for that reason.

hope we all try to understand each other more and try to accept the other

Edited August 31, 2005 by smb

[Slim Chance]

I hear you smb, Glad to meet you.

It’s ironic that these who ignorantly attack your people have left their own countries to live in a place that they can neither truly appreciate nor ever understand.

Listen to what they discuss. Their idea of culture is cheap alcohol and cheap sex and it doesn‘t get much deeper than that. And they’ve no idea how badly they’ve screwed up the scene in places like Thailand.

There’s nothing you or I can do about the mean pompous losers who proudly display their ignorance on these public forums. They’re drawn to these pages like flies to chit. Makes ‘em feel important. Back home they’d probably be annoying someone in the local bar.

At this point in history, as an American, I am eager to meet, exchange ideas, and hopefully, to be friends with Arab people.

George Bush and the Sukhumwit lager-louts don’t speak for me.

And it’s not really the American Government. It’s the international corporations who stole that government, not to mention most of the world’s wealth, over the last 60 years or so.

[smb]

I hear you smb, Glad to meet you.

It’s ironic that these who ignorantly attack your people have left their own countries to  live in a place that they can neither truly appreciate nor ever understand.

Listen to what they discuss. Their idea of culture is cheap alcohol and cheap sex and it doesn‘t get much deeper than that. And they’ve no idea how badly they’ve screwed up the scene in places like Thailand.

There’s nothing you or I can do about the mean pompous losers who proudly display their ignorance on these public forums. They’re drawn to these pages like flies to chit. Makes ‘em feel important. Back home they’d probably be annoying someone in the local bar.

At this point in history, as an American, I am eager to meet, exchange ideas, and hopefully, to be friends with Arab people.

George Bush and the Sukhumwit lager-louts don’t speak for me.

And it’s not really the American Government. It’s the international corporations who stole that government, not to mention most of the world’s wealth, over the last 60 years or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very true it is international corprations

im really glad to find someone like u and im sure there are alot others who share your point of view but as they say (the bad always sticks out)

well u can consider me a friend and ill be happy to share ideas with u,and im ready to answer any question u ask or talk about any subject .

here in this fourm or any other place u like

:)

smb

[kalaminsa]

u wouldnt understand it because u dont know about our culture or religin and u have to try to accept other cultures and religion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think that most westerners have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in Arabian countries.

Chopping off of limbs , Stoning to death, Mutilation of women , condoned murder of women etc.

[smb]

u wouldnt understand it because u dont know about our culture or religin and u have to try to accept other cultures and religion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think that most westerners have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in Arabian countries.

Chopping off of limbs , Stoning to death, Mutilation of women , condoned murder of women etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what do u call this (http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/608/608p28.htm)

is this the modrenised world ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/brits_torturing_iraqis/index.html)

this is not barbaric?!!!!(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/abuse_of_iraqis/60miniiusiraqitortured7b.html)

is the the western culture ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/navy_seals_torturing_iraq/index.html)

after seeing this ,should i say ?((i Think that most arabs have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in western countries))

not at all .im sure most westerners are not like that .thats because i have lived in western countries and have met alot of them

i think u should read from the source then judje,dont beleave anything u hear

here i will give u some websites that will help u know us and our religion better

read them and see for yourself

http://discover.islamway.com/

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?sec...=article&id=253

http://www.islam.com/

http://www.understanding-islam.com/

i think what i have posted is enough for anyone who is really seeking to know what and who are we.

[kalaminsa]

u wouldnt understand it because u dont know about our culture or religin and u have to try to accept other cultures and religion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think that most westerners have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in Arabian countries.

Chopping off of limbs , Stoning to death, Mutilation of women , condoned murder of women etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what do u call this (http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/608/608p28.htm)

is this the modrenised world ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/brits_torturing_iraqis/index.html)

this is not barbaric?!!!!(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/abuse_of_iraqis/60miniiusiraqitortured7b.html)

is the the western culture ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/navy_seals_torturing_iraq/index.html)

after seeing this ,should i say ?((i Think that most arabs have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in western countries))

not at all .im sure most westerners are not like that .thats because i have lived in western countries and have met alot of them

i think u should read from the source then judje,dont beleave anything u hear

here i will give u some websites that will help u know us and our religion better

read them and see for yourself

http://discover.islamway.com/

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?sec...=article&id=253

http://www.islam.com/

http://www.understanding-islam.com/

i think what i have posted is enough for anyone who is really seeking to know what and who are we.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seem to have missed the point - torture as such is not accepted or condoned in western society with a few exceptions.

Though in modern wars it is all to often practiced by all combatants.

I can't however remember any citizen of any Arabian country being prosecuted by his own government for carrying out torture . I do however remember seeing pictures of tortured soldiers proudly displayed by their arab captures.

We in the west do not beleive in forcibly mutilating our women,partial or complete removal of clitoris.

We do not beleive in forcing marriage upon our women.

We do not beleive in selling our women.

We do not beleive in killing any women who have brought shame upon our family.

We do not beleive that stoning women to death or cutting off limbs of criminals is an enjoyable pastime .

We do not beleive that we will get everlasting happiness by blowing up ourself in order to kill some infidels.

All of the above , although not present in every arabic society , are practised with the full support of the law in numerous arabic/Islamic societies.

To us all of the above is a sign of a barbaric society.

[smb]

u wouldnt understand it because u dont know about our culture or religin and u have to try to accept other cultures and religion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think that most westerners have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in Arabian countries.

Chopping off of limbs , Stoning to death, Mutilation of women , condoned murder of women etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what do u call this (http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/608/608p28.htm)

is this the modrenised world ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/brits_torturing_iraqis/index.html)

this is not barbaric?!!!!(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/abuse_of_iraqis/60miniiusiraqitortured7b.html)

is the the western culture ?????(http://ancapistan.typepad.com/photos/navy_seals_torturing_iraq/index.html)

after seeing this ,should i say ?((i Think that most arabs have difficulty in accepting any culture that is as barbic as is often the case in western countries))

not at all .im sure most westerners are not like that .thats because i have lived in western countries and have met alot of them

i think u should read from the source then judje,dont beleave anything u hear

here i will give u some websites that will help u know us and our religion better

read them and see for yourself

http://discover.islamway.com/

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?sec...=article&id=253

http://www.islam.com/

http://www.understanding-islam.com/

i think what i have posted is enough for anyone who is really seeking to know what and who are we.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seem to have missed the point - torture as such is not accepted or condoned in western society with a few exceptions.

Though in modern wars it is all to often practiced by all combatants.

I can't however remember any citizen of any Arabian country being prosecuted by his own government for carrying out torture . I do however remember seeing pictures of tortured soldiers proudly displayed by their arab captures.

We in the west do not beleive in forcibly mutilating our women,partial or complete removal of clitoris.

We do not beleive in forcing marriage upon our women.

We do not beleive in selling our women.

We do not beleive in killing any women who have brought shame upon our family.

We do not beleive that stoning women to death or cutting off limbs of criminals is an enjoyable pastime .

We do not beleive that we will get everlasting happiness by blowing up ourself in order to kill some infidels.

All of the above , although not present in every arabic society , are practised with the full support of the law in numerous arabic/Islamic societies.

To us all of the above is a sign of a barbaric society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

u said (I can't however remember any citizen of any Arabian country being prosecuted by his own government for carrying out torture) well our goverments are corupted and they have been in power because they have your support (your goverment mean)

u said (I do however remember seeing pictures of tortured soldiers proudly displayed by their arab captures)

well the pics that i posted they were proud about it and smiling and the captures were from the west( i hope u remember that)

u said(We in the west do not beleive in forcibly mutilating our women,partial or complete removal of clitoris.)

we dont do that anymore people are getting more educated and realising

u said(We do not beleive in forcing marriage upon our women.)

your saying it as if it is spead all around arab world and that is not true

u said(We do not beleive in selling our women.))

we dont sell our women

u said(We do not beleive in killing any women who have brought shame upon our family)

not women we kill men or women who bring shame to the family

u said (We do not beleive that stoning women to death or cutting off limbs of criminals is an enjoyable pastime )

none of us beleive its enjoyable

u said (We do not beleive that we will get everlasting happiness by blowing up ourself in order to kill some infidels)

we beleive that we will get everlasting happiness if we fight for freedom and we will do what ever it takes to reach that

dont u beleive that if u fight for your country and die u will go to hevean?

ofcourse killing kids and inocent people is not right and that we dont beleive in

the extremists do or dont care just like what they are doing in iraq

so our extremests blow them selves up and your extremists use napalm and uranium

both of them are wrong and both have suporters

but that dosent mean all of the arabs are extremests and it doesnt mean all of the westeners are ...

see if u only gave yourself time to read the websites that i posted about women in islam and others u wouldnt have said what u just have said

here read this and if u really want to know more and willing .i will be glad to answer any spacific question u ask

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?sec...=article&id=253

i did post it earlier

Edited September 3, 2005 by smb

[kalaminsa]

u said (I can't however remember any citizen of any Arabian country being prosecuted by his own government for carrying out torture) well our goverments are corupted and they have been in power because they have your support (your goverment mean)

u said (I do however remember seeing pictures of tortured soldiers proudly displayed by their arab captures)

well the pics that i posted they were proud about it and smiling and the captures were from the west( i hope u remember that)

>> The pics you posted were PIC's which were not proudly broadcast on state TV.

u said(We in the west do not beleive in forcibly mutilating our women,partial or complete removal of clitoris.)

we dont do that anymore people are getting more educated and realising

>> Granted the practise is becoming more & more limited to a few Islamic countries.

u said(We do not beleive in forcing marriage upon our women.)

your saying it as if it is spead all around arab world and that is not true

>> I did not state that it happened in every Islamic country though it is present in many rural societies.

u said(We do not beleive in selling our women.))

we dont sell our women

>> It does happen , particularily in the rural societies in the poorer countries.

u said(We do not beleive in killing any women who have brought shame upon our family)

not women we kill men or women who bring shame to the family

>> YES , there indeed is a sign of how barbaric the arabic societies are.

Killing or taking the life of someone for whatever reason is barbaric.

u said (We do not beleive that stoning women to death or cutting off limbs of criminals is an enjoyable pastime )

none of us beleive its enjoyable

>>There are large crowds outside the main mosque in Riyadh on every Friday when such an event takes place.

u said (We do not beleive that we will get everlasting happiness by blowing up ourself in order to kill some infidels)

we beleive that we will get everlasting happiness if we fight for freedom and we will do what ever it takes to reach that

dont u beleive that if u fight for your country and die u will go to hevean?

>> No whyever should I ?? and I cetainly don't beleive that I will get 100 virgins !

>>Fighting for freedom , does that entail slitting the throats of woman & children ??

>> This is also done in the name of Allah in Algeria for example.

>>Fighting for freedom ?? Freedom from whom ?? Until the 9/11 event there was no Arabic country occupied by western military forces in the middle east.

Granted, there are countries in the ME which have western friendly regimes and regimes which have been supported rightly or wrongly by the USA (or the UK in some cases ) in order for them to ensure the continued supply of oil ,or in some cases in order to a strategic military presence during the cold war era.

But although influenced these regimes have not been controlled by the USA.

I put it to you that your real enemy is closer to home

You real enemy is your own government or Ruler.

[kalaminsa]

100 virgins - Sounds to me like the suicide bombers are just a bunch of randy bastards !

[zaz]

Salam smb, let me just say forget this debate with kalaminsa you're having. I've had debates like this in the past on this and other forums and although I fight my corner and fight for broad mindedness from all people, some are very thick-skulled and don't see further than the tip of their noses. Fact is, those people who have actually got their heads out of their &lt;deleted&gt; understand what is right and what is wrong (about what people think about Islam/Middle Eastern countries) so don't go too deep my friend....

Edited September 3, 2005 by zaz

[kalaminsa]

zaz...

Fast cars, fast bikes and fast women!!

SPEED JUNKIE!!Above all, looking for love....

I may be 34 but honestly I look 27 and have a mental age of 19....

Sounds like you have some things in common with some members of the Al Saud family.

[zaz]

oh if only...!!!! believe me that sounds better than it actually is (although it's true..) only need the nice juicy sized bank account!!!

[smb]

u said (I can't however remember any citizen of any Arabian country being prosecuted by his own government for carrying out torture) well our goverments are corupted and they have been in power because they have your support (your goverment mean)

u said (I do however remember seeing pictures of tortured soldiers proudly displayed by their arab captures)

well the pics that i posted they were proud about it and smiling and the captures were from the west( i hope u remember that)

>> The pics you posted were PIC's which were not proudly broadcast on state TV.

     

u said(We in the west do not beleive in forcibly mutilating our women,partial or complete removal of clitoris.)

we dont do that anymore people are getting more educated and realising

>> Granted the practise is becoming more & more limited to a few Islamic countries.

u said(We do not beleive in forcing marriage upon our women.)

your saying it as if it is spead all around arab world and that is not true

>> I did not state that it happened in every Islamic country though it is present in many rural societies.

u said(We do not beleive in selling our women.))

we dont sell our women 

>> It does happen , particularily in the rural societies in the poorer countries.

u said(We do not beleive in killing any women who have brought shame upon our family)

not women we kill men or women who bring shame to the family

>> YES , there indeed is a sign of how barbaric the arabic societies are.

      Killing or taking the life of someone for whatever reason is barbaric.

u said (We do not beleive that stoning women to death or cutting off limbs of criminals is an enjoyable pastime )

none of us beleive its enjoyable

>>There are large crowds outside the main mosque in Riyadh on every Friday when such an event takes place.

u said (We do not beleive that we will get everlasting happiness by blowing up ourself in order to kill some infidels)

we beleive that we will get everlasting happiness if we fight for freedom and we will do what ever it takes to reach that

dont u beleive that if u fight for your country and die u will go to hevean?

>> No whyever should I  ?? and I cetainly don't beleive that I will get 100 virgins !

>>Fighting for freedom , does that entail slitting the throats of woman & children ??

>>    This is also done in the name of Allah in Algeria for example.

>>Fighting for freedom ?? Freedom from whom ?? Until the 9/11 event there was no  Arabic country occupied by western military forces in the middle east.

Granted, there are countries in the ME which have western friendly regimes and regimes which have been supported rightly or wrongly by the USA (or the UK in some cases ) in order for them to ensure the continued supply of oil ,or in some cases in order to a strategic military presence during the cold war era.

But although influenced these regimes have not been controlled by the USA.

I put it to you that your real enemy is closer to home

You real enemy is your own government or Ruler.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(The pics you posted were PIC's which were not proudly broadcast on state TV)

No it wasn’t if one or two channels did it, it doesn’t mean we all were proud about it

(YES , there indeed is a sign of how barbaric the arabic societies are.

Killing or taking the life of someone for whatever reason is barbaric

Ok if that so it means we are all barbaric, isn’t u killing innocent people in Iraq?

U call that barbaric and we call the projects in the states a barbaric culture and every states has at least one project .I thing u know how life is there

i dont have to be like u to be normal and u dont have to me like me to be normal

(No whyever should I ?? and I cetainly don't beleive that I will get 100 virgins)

First of all not 100 less than that and I don’t expect u to believe it because your not Muslim just like so many things in your religion I don’t believe in

(There are large crowds outside the main mosque in Riyadh on every Friday when such an event takes place.)

They did that for a reason and it doesn’t mean they are enjoying it

Look at the crime rates in Saudi, UK and the states

(Fighting for freedom , does that entail slitting the throats of woman & children ??

>> This is also done in the name of Allah in Algeria for example.)

the KKK were killing blacks in the name of jeuses

That’s what im trying to say they are extreamests and use religion to justify what they do but it doesnt mean that its right and Islam didnt justify that

The kkk were extremists and used religion and it doesn’t mean its right and I don’t think Christianity justifies it

(I put it to you that your real enemy is closer to home

You real enemy is your own government or Ruler.)

i totally agree

From what I see, is that you have a lot of miss understanding of our culture and religion .specially in the woman’s right.

take a look it wont take u more than 10 min.

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?sec...=article&id=253

This is a sight that talks about what exactly is the woman’s right in Islam

And it’s very important not to blame religion on what every person does even if he used the name of religion

it was nice talking to u and ill be here if u want to know anything about us or our religion

u dont have to beleive in it just to know what is the real culture and islam.because media damaged the view of islam and arab culture also the islamic extreamists .and now most people think what they do is from islam ,when its not

[smb]

Salam smb,  let me just say forget this debate with kalaminsa you're having.  I've had debates like this in the past on this and other forums and although I fight my corner and fight for broad mindedness from all people, some are very thick-skulled and don't see further than the tip of their noses.  Fact is, those people who have actually got their heads out of their &lt;deleted&gt; understand what is right and what is wrong (about what people think about Islam/Middle Eastern countries) so don't go too deep my friend....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks man i am done