Have You Heard?

[WarpSpeed]

For you wimpy ex race car driver's sit back and watch the real mean racing in Sydney now on ubc.

2 x Wimpy's for me, with onions.

PS. And not so much of the Ex.

still racing, but now on public highways, almost as exciting as rally, as you never know how the others will behave or which side of the road the bikes are coming

No wonder safety is an afterthought .. Though having said that I'm known for exceeding the average speed here by some fair amount as well ..

[katabeachbum]

Tell all that to Rally, Nascar and indeed to serious drag race drivers. And before you say how does it affect drag racing, most strips have walls or steel guard rails, nowhere to go, part of the sport, an accepted risk.

If a racer knows he is going into the weeds trying a tight manoeuvre, his skill and forethought will come to the fore, not, OH if l cock it up l will nip round the run off. .

Not taking the piss, it's my view as a spectator in your particular motor sport,

Must say I v always found track racing boring, probably why I chose rally. The excitement of flying over an iced or snow covered gravel road, not knowing how many spectators are on the road after the curve beats all kind of fast driving

Some of my rally mates are still into it at age 50, on occasions beat the younger ones with better equipment and more miles in the spine

Yes and do they still allow the fans to stand in the road like they did 15 years ago completely obscuring the course?? Do they close stages because of too many spectators and safety issues including weather? Do they allow open topped rally cars with a minimum of driver and co-driver protection? Or has all of these SAFETY related issues evolved to serve the current speed and spectator "safety" since we now apply more common sense to safety issues for all participants.

safety standards in rally has been significantly improved past 2 decades, cars and spectator control. Speed has increased accordingly though. IMHO still most exciting racing on 4 wheels, full of surprices and no escape route when you fail. at a reasonable cost. Most common rally car is VW Golf MKII 1,8 at 90-120hp (1984-1990) at 3-500k prepped. Tracks are private and public gravel-roads, almost free.

[WarpSpeed]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

[katabeachbum]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

So your saying cos cars are faster, tracks should be altered, ie: run offs etc to compensate, instead of driver skill handling the power and the TRACK in question, total <deleted>. I notice on F1 tracks the bends/corners have nice little smooth cambers IN CASE they over cook it but now these cambers are part of the track to save time as they don't have to reduce speed as much. Doesn't matter how much a car has improved, a track is a track to master, next you will want air balloon catches. If your going to race and fear then you shouldn't be racing. Why don't rally drivers ask to have trees cut down on the edge of a rally circuit for safety reasons, why, cos it's a track to be mastered, regardless of power, driver skill, no fear.

PS. Rally drivers do race on tarmac, in fact any surface.

please dont cut down the trees, they save the spectators lives :jap: .

back pain again, f-ck those trees

In my next life i ll race on only safe tracks

I m not a Formula 1 fan, but wasnt actually the speed reduced in Formula 1 by reducing cc and downforce?

agree with Warp, todays street cars are better than the rally cars 2 decades ago. A Fiesta now comes with 16inches, 125 hp and 6 speed dubbelclutch

[WarpSpeed]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

So your saying cos cars are faster, tracks should be altered, ie: run offs etc to compensate, instead of driver skill handling the power and the TRACK in question, total <deleted>. I notice on F1 tracks the bends/corners have nice little smooth cambers IN CASE they over cook it but now these cambers are part of the track to save time as they don't have to reduce speed as much. Doesn't matter how much a car has improved, a track is a track to master, next you will want air balloon catches. If your going to race and fear then you shouldn't be racing. Why don't rally drivers ask to have trees cut down on the edge of a rally circuit for safety reasons, why, cos it's a track to be mastered, regardless of power, driver skill, no fear.

PS. Rally drivers do race on tarmac, in fact any surface.

There are so many inaccuracies and discrepencies in this post it's not even worth my energy to try to unravel them all and respond, the above highlighted one is a perfect example as no one EVER said anything about rally drivers not running on tarmac sheeesss!! .. In fact quite the opposite is true..

Edited December 6, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

So your saying cos cars are faster, tracks should be altered, ie: run offs etc to compensate, instead of driver skill handling the power and the TRACK in question, total <deleted>. I notice on F1 tracks the bends/corners have nice little smooth cambers IN CASE they over cook it but now these cambers are part of the track to save time as they don't have to reduce speed as much. Doesn't matter how much a car has improved, a track is a track to master, next you will want air balloon catches. If your going to race and fear then you shouldn't be racing. Why don't rally drivers ask to have trees cut down on the edge of a rally circuit for safety reasons, why, cos it's a track to be mastered, regardless of power, driver skill, no fear.

PS. Rally drivers do race on tarmac, in fact any surface.

please dont cut down the trees, they save the spectators lives :jap: .

back pain again, f-ck those trees

In my next life i ll race on only safe tracks

I m not a Formula 1 fan, but wasnt actually the speed reduced in Formula 1 by reducing cc and downforce?

agree with Warp, todays street cars are better than the rally cars 2 decades ago. A Fiesta now comes with 16inches, 125 hp and 6 speed dubbelclutch

Yes they have reduced the speed in F1 a number of times as they have also in the states open wheel series as at a given point the G's generated cause dizziness and potential black out, but it's not a safety issue it's only drivers without enough brass that do so I think they should allow them to drive as fast as possible until they do black out .. After all it makes racing a whole lot more fun for the spectators..

Besides cost it's another reason they've outlawed turbo's, mandated engine size and piston number, eliminated "downforce" cars, down sized tires and on and on...

T/A I'm just wondering if you're man enough to take up the challenge you're obviously putting out and take me on on a real track or if your all just hot air?? I think the latter truth be told...

Take your pick? We can arrange a track day or if that's too radical for you there are a number of fast kart tracks around... What do you say? Fancy a driving lesson?? I'm game....

Edited December 6, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

So your saying cos cars are faster, tracks should be altered, ie: run offs etc to compensate, instead of driver skill handling the power and the TRACK in question, total <deleted>. I notice on F1 tracks the bends/corners have nice little smooth cambers IN CASE they over cook it but now these cambers are part of the track to save time as they don't have to reduce speed as much. Doesn't matter how much a car has improved, a track is a track to master, next you will want air balloon catches. If your going to race and fear then you shouldn't be racing. Why don't rally drivers ask to have trees cut down on the edge of a rally circuit for safety reasons, why, cos it's a track to be mastered, regardless of power, driver skill, no fear.

PS. Rally drivers do race on tarmac, in fact any surface.

There are so many inaccuracies and discrepencies in this post it's not even worth my energy to try to unravel them all and respond, the above highlighted one is a perfect example as no one EVER said anything about rally drivers not running on tarmac sheeesss!! .. In fact quite the opposite is true..

Please, just try and reply with your experience, even if you think l am nuts. Good for all to read. ( discrepancies )

Nope you're just trolling and doing a poor job of it I might add. You want the benefit of my experience stop taking cheap pot shots from behind your keyboard come on out and take up the challenge you obviously keep making calling my racing abilities and courage into question just because I call into question the safety of a given track... Bring it on...

Edited December 6, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Never argued that rally isn't spectacular and as I've stated numerous times I believe that rally drivers are the best car control drivers in motorsports but then rally isn't road racing, it's like comparing apples and oranges and speed has increased in all forms of motorsports different courses for different horses but that doesn't diminish the talents of top road racers in their field or the courage they have, not every rally driver is a good circuit driver either and very few are good on every surface most are specialists, Sebastian Loeb who I have immense respect for is one of the few who is..

Todays street cars possess more Hp and handling in their street trim then many of yesterdays race cars and much more performance capability built in once converted to a track car... Another major reason that track/equipment safety has to keep up....

So your saying cos cars are faster, tracks should be altered, ie: run offs etc to compensate, instead of driver skill handling the power and the TRACK in question, total <deleted>. I notice on F1 tracks the bends/corners have nice little smooth cambers IN CASE they over cook it but now these cambers are part of the track to save time as they don't have to reduce speed as much. Doesn't matter how much a car has improved, a track is a track to master, next you will want air balloon catches. If your going to race and fear then you shouldn't be racing. Why don't rally drivers ask to have trees cut down on the edge of a rally circuit for safety reasons, why, cos it's a track to be mastered, regardless of power, driver skill, no fear.

PS. Rally drivers do race on tarmac, in fact any surface.

There are so many inaccuracies and discrepencies in this post it's not even worth my energy to try to unravel them all and respond, the above highlighted one is a perfect example as no one EVER said anything about rally drivers not running on tarmac sheeesss!! .. In fact quite the opposite is true..

Please, just try and reply with your experience, even if you think l am nuts. Good for all to read. ( discrepancies )

Try to utilize your own faculties without my holding your hand. Who has claimed anything anywhere about Rally drivers not driving on tarmac??

[EvilDrSomkid]

My wife is heading up to Bonanza this week for the Big Mountain Music Festival. I mentioned this track to her. She said she's heard about it and might check out the build status.

She also said that I should go racing. I mentioned that this needs a race car which in turn requires money.

Reply: Then we just have to work harder!

I'll post pics if I get them.

[WarpSpeed]

My wife is heading up to Bonanza this week for the Big Mountain Music Festival. I mentioned this track to her. She said she's heard about it and might check out the build status.

She also said that I should go racing. I mentioned that this needs a race car which in turn requires money.

Reply: Then we just have to work harder!

I'll post pics if I get them.

Thanks EvilDoc I'll look forward to any more recent pics...She's right though you should go racing..

[WarpSpeed]

I have made NUMEROUS posts on this interesting thread. No real response as to l am wrong with MY thoughts on the subject. Isn't the forum to discuss stuff even if you yourself think l am wrong. As l said before, l am a spectator in you sport and l have posted an opinion. If you want my opinion on footballers getting paid millions for kicking a ball about l have an opinion for that too.

Don't shy away from my points, even if you think l am not qualified to make an opinion. .

T/A I tire of answering your questions because you twist the answers all up in knots that are impossible to untie and most are rhetorical anyways. Discussion is not a requirement with every single person who posts just because they post, are you THAT attention starved? Just like the example above where you somehow read into my post that I suggested that Rally drivers don't run on tarmac.. At some point banging your head against the wall just ends up giving you a headache so best to quit that process and quit while I'm behind ..

JFYI it's the way you keep obviously intentionally posting up "if you're a race driver" designed for no other purpose then to challenge me on that point, so, if you want to continue that tact my challenge stands..

[MoonRiverOasis]

Imagine this..

You're driving down the main straight and are hitting 250+ km/hr. You and your car take the next corner at 140km/hr, so long as you get the braking and entry right. As you're racing, your pushing the limits, so there's no way you could magically find more brakes and come to a stop before that corner - the braking point you've chosen totally commits you to going into the turn at 140km/hr. You also can't magically make it around the corner using a totally different racing line.

Now the car in front has a mechanical failure or just pure messes up, and your line is gone. You can't make the corner and you can't stop before the track becomes a wall. Should you have to crash into a solid concrete barrier at 140km/hr, or should the track design try to give you an out?

There's arguments to be had from both sides of course.

Track racing is entirely different to Rally, because it's not just you with a passenger out there. Circuit racing is a totally different dynamic/challenge. I love rally, but comparing it to track racing is apples and oranges.

[WarpSpeed]

Imagine this..

You're driving down the main straight and are hitting 250+ km/hr. You and your car take the next corner at 140km/hr, so long as you get the braking and entry right. As you're racing, your pushing the limits, so there's no way you could magically find more brakes and come to a stop before that corner - the braking point you've chosen totally commits you to going into the turn at 140km/hr. You also can't magically make it around the corner using a totally different racing line.

Now the car in front has a mechanical failure or just pure messes up, and your line is gone. You can't make the corner and you can't stop before the track becomes a wall. Should you have to crash into a solid concrete barrier at 140km/hr, or should the track design try to give you an out?

There's arguments to be had from both sides of course.

Track racing is entirely different to Rally, because it's not just you with a passenger out there. Circuit racing is a totally different dynamic/challenge. I love rally, but comparing it to track racing is apples and oranges.

Thank you MRO for another valiant attempt at applying logic and a good one too. I tried in vain to point this out but clearly I'm just not brave enough/stoopid enough, more like, and to make matters worse in your realistic scenario throw the odd driver not up to the quality of the rest (actually not so odd, rather common in fact)as in racing it's not about talent but money and then different classes with drastically different pace all thrown into the pot = potential disaster without proper safety measures in place.

Maybe we should just eliminate the flags too entirely they don't have them in Rally except on occasion if there happens to be an incident where one may be located in the off chance ...

Edited December 7, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[EvilDrSomkid]

My wife is heading up to Bonanza this week for the Big Mountain Music Festival. I mentioned this track to her. She said she's heard about it and might check out the build status.

She also said that I should go racing. I mentioned that this needs a race car which in turn requires money.

Reply: Then we just have to work harder!

I'll post pics if I get them.

Thanks EvilDoc I'll look forward to any more recent pics...She's right though you should go racing..

Pics have been requested.

When it comes to racing, I wish they had sold Audi 80 Quattros in Thailand.

Changing a big heavy S6 automatic into a race car is a big effort to say the least.

More suitable to open road racing.

I do practice sometimes on the expressways around the southern and eastern sides BKK

A BMW E30 or E36 for the track would do nicely, I guess...

[WarpSpeed]

My wife is heading up to Bonanza this week for the Big Mountain Music Festival. I mentioned this track to her. She said she's heard about it and might check out the build status.

She also said that I should go racing. I mentioned that this needs a race car which in turn requires money.

Reply: Then we just have to work harder!

I'll post pics if I get them.

Thanks EvilDoc I'll look forward to any more recent pics...She's right though you should go racing..

Pics have been requested.

When it comes to racing, I wish they had sold Audi 80 Quattros in Thailand.

Changing a big heavy S6 automatic into a race car is a big effort to say the least.

More suitable to open road racing.

I do practice sometimes on the expressways around the southern and eastern sides BKK

A BMW E30 or E36 for the track would do nicely, I guess...

Should consider something different in a nice VW then as you already own an Audi. They are as good as any BMW unfortunately better it seems as they have limited the rules in the classes you can compete to only RWD..

Anyway I've done some serious evaluation on a VW package to race and I'm torn between a 20V normally aspirated and a 16v Turbo diesel which is really the way I'm leaning since the tracks here are more torque friendly and they are near bullet proof and cheap to run..

[katabeachbum]

My wife is heading up to Bonanza this week for the Big Mountain Music Festival. I mentioned this track to her. She said she's heard about it and might check out the build status.

She also said that I should go racing. I mentioned that this needs a race car which in turn requires money.

Reply: Then we just have to work harder!

I'll post pics if I get them.

Thanks EvilDoc I'll look forward to any more recent pics...She's right though you should go racing..

Pics have been requested.

When it comes to racing, I wish they had sold Audi 80 Quattros in Thailand.

Changing a big heavy S6 automatic into a race car is a big effort to say the least.

More suitable to open road racing.

I do practice sometimes on the expressways around the southern and eastern sides BKK

A BMW E30 or E36 for the track would do nicely, I guess...

Should consider something different in a nice VW then as you already own an Audi. They are as good as any BMW unfortunately better it seems as they have limited the rules in the classes you can compete to only RWD..

Anyway I've done some serious evaluation on a VW package to race and I'm torn between a 20V normally aspirated and a 16v Turbo diesel which is really the way I'm leaning since the tracks here are more torque friendly and they are near bullet proof and cheap to run..

let me guess, 20V NA would be 1,8 at 125 hp and approx 180Nm at+4000rpm

and 1,9 TDi 115,130 or 150 hp/ +300Nm from 1800 rpm. even the 90 hp would chipsed to 119 hp be fine

not hard to see the winner engine

[WarpSpeed]

Pics have been requested.

When it comes to racing, I wish they had sold Audi 80 Quattros in Thailand.

Changing a big heavy S6 automatic into a race car is a big effort to say the least.

More suitable to open road racing.

I do practice sometimes on the expressways around the southern and eastern sides BKK

A BMW E30 or E36 for the track would do nicely, I guess...

Should consider something different in a nice VW then as you already own an Audi. They are as good as any BMW unfortunately better it seems as they have limited the rules in the classes you can compete to only RWD..

Anyway I've done some serious evaluation on a VW package to race and I'm torn between a 20V normally aspirated and a 16v Turbo diesel which is really the way I'm leaning since the tracks here are more torque friendly and they are near bullet proof and cheap to run..

let me guess, 20V NA would be 1,8 at 125 hp and approx 180Nm at+4000rpm

and 1,9 TDi 115,130 or 150 hp/ +300Nm from 1800 rpm. even the 90 hp would chipsed to 119 hp be fine

not hard to see the winner engine

Nope the engine I'm thinking of produces 174 out of the box without mod one. Nice try but that is also a 20V 1.8 and not the 20V hybrid 2.0l I'm considering making.. The 16V diesel would be around 250 to 270 still a bit short but the rest will be made up in good driving and torque.. There are already 16V turbos out there running competitively in virtually stock trim and mine would not be stock trim count on it ..

Besides as per usual, one dimensional thinking about more Hp, more Hp when there's a whole lot more that goes into a winning "package" then just an engine .. Hence the word package..

Edited December 10, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[EvilDrSomkid]

Well, my wife told me that the music festival was right next to the track under construction. Its a bit narrow. She said something like 5 to 6 meters wide. It is a long track, but she was not able to get a lot of pictures as many stalls were placed around. You would need a helicopter or something to get a good overview.

She did drive on part of the rack with the S6. hehehe. She wanted to go for a blast, but her friend was sick already

Anyway, nothing spectacular as far as I can tell.