Have You Heard?

[WarpSpeed]

I won't put up the translation as it is not very good but here is a Bangkok Post link to their story and some rendering pictures..

If thats a proposed rendering as no doubt it is there a couple of issues and one of them is the lack of paved and covered paddock space> it seems to me that if the planned it it would more impressive to display it in the rendering?

Also that nice looking wall on the back section hopefully won't have the nice taper is shows as that is a certain roll over hazard that directs a car directly back on to the track in the other direction, looks good on paper but needs more thought in practical terms..

Otherwise good to see the progress, I also hope they don't have so much paint on the run off as they show too as it's going to be very slick in rain conditions... I hope the concrete wall is not going to extend as far as proposed down the straight either just where it is required for safety around the pit area run off is much better to have..

No way to know direction flow but that narrow area where it comes back towards the straight is a real concern as it will be reasonably high speed in any case a nice long straight with some heavy breaking areas at either end will make for nice passing zones but again on second consideration both ends have no run off for brake failure or other mechanical failures and one way runs right into a wall or part of the paddock road, the other runs directly back towards the track.

It has some banked turns though so that ought to be a lot of fun..

New track

Course overview map of the Bonanza International Speed Way.

Asphalt ramp process.

Process, the asphalt slope Bonanza International Speed Way.

Process, the asphalt slope Bonanza International Speed Way.

Process, the asphalt slope Bonanza International Speed Way.

Process, the asphalt slope Bonanza International Speed Way.

Process, the asphalt slope Bonanza International Speed Way.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Thanks for the heads-up WarpSpeed

If direction of flow can be assumed from the two cars rendered in pole and 2nd, that's one helluva dangerous straight ..

According to the article, the track is ~3km long, so that makes that straight close to a full km itself. Any decent car would be coming out of the last esses at reasonable speed, then gets a big boost with the downhill ramp, and another few hundred meters to finally hit top speed before hooking into a 70+ degree turn with no controlled run-off. Lose it on this turn and you'll be skating over grass, an access road, then rolling into a tree-studded mountain.

40-50mm of asphalt on a dirt base in mountainous area doesn't strike me as being a surface that'll stand the test of time - I be worried about making potholes in it with my Cayenne

It's also a little odd that there has been any alternate layouts designed in.

Would any of that stop me from driving it? no way

I'm no expert on racetrack design, so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this..

[kartman]

Will Dan Blocker be trying it in his Genie Mk10? spiritually that is.

[WarpSpeed]

Thanks for the heads-up WarpSpeed

If direction of flow can be assumed from the two cars rendered in pole and 2nd, that's one helluva dangerous straight ..

According to the article, the track is ~3km long, so that makes that straight close to a full km itself. Any decent car would be coming out of the last esses at reasonable speed, then gets a big boost with the downhill ramp, and another few hundred meters to finally hit top speed before hooking into a 70+ degree turn with no controlled run-off. Lose it on this turn and you'll be skating over grass, an access road, then rolling into a tree-studded mountain.

40-50mm of asphalt on a dirt base in mountainous area doesn't strike me as being a surface that'll stand the test of time - I be worried about making potholes in it with my Cayenne

It's also a little odd that there has been any alternate layouts designed in.

Would any of that stop me from driving it? no way

I'm no expert on racetrack design, so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this..

I agree completely though I hadn't concluded that the cars were on the top 2 positions but it makes sense, good catch and I noticed the same thing you did with the layouts as well but already had a fair few criticisms so in order not appear totally negative (which I'm not) I omitted that one in an effort to be diplomatic .

Of course here in Thailand it seems to be minimalist thinking in track design as none of them I know of have alternative configurations, quite strange really but they can always put some in later, in fact I think it's going to become mandatory as we've both observed : ..

I just hope no one has to get seriously injured or killed before the changes are made and most especially not a spectator or something but TIT and jai yen yen and all that..

So with your conclusion of direction thrown in, the wall on the back section then becomes a ramp to vault you into oncoming traffic on the front straight should you get off there? Cool!!!! That's an adventurous aspect of racing I hadn't considered before and a down hill on the front straight might be a cool thing in all seriousness, but yes butt puckering speed and braking entering turn 1 at the end with all too many scenarios for a major incident in it's present form.

Holy crap!!! I just took better notice of the track exit and entrance where the pits are? It's classic Thailand main road entry, you have to enter between a break in the wall at the bottom of the hill with walls on both sides and no run off!!! And the entrance is directly into traffic at the end and it's blind from both the track and the pits because of the wall, very short with no blend lane and it will be very close to top speed there while moving left for entry to the corner and hopefully no one will be passing making it even narrower Scary stuff.

They should have moved the pits down a bit and had an entrance either coming off on the down hill or have one coming out of the turn at the top which would be good because momentum will be taking you that direction anyways and since it's banked most cars will be down low in the "groove" at the bottom and then make the entrance to the track travel into turn 1 or around the back of turn 1 where the speeds are reduced and visibility is high but that maybe too far, but in any case the pit entrance should never be in a high speed zone though they could just lengthen it with no wall to obscure vision from both sides and allow drivers to react and adjust ahead of time.

On second consideration that pit entry is a death trap no way that's going to work.. It's a toss up which will be worse, entry or exit?

Edited November 28, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[MoonRiverOasis]

Some quick fixes

Smaller lines are pit entry/exit.

Edited November 28, 2010 by MoonRiverOasis

[MoonRiverOasis]

On second consideration that pit entry is a death trap no way that's going to work.. It's a toss up which will be worse, entry or exit?

As you note, entry is next to impossible, but lets just say you did get into the pits without cutting your car in half or being shunted into the crowd, you then have to somehow merge with traffic on the absolute fastest section of the track, on the side of the road all cars need to be on to prep for the next turn.. That still has a slightly higher change of success though

[Kwasaki]

Which way will they go round ? tracks in England for bike race days had sessions alternate it was good fun.

They cannot be serious about the entry or exit for the pits area, they would have to have stopped racing before cars could enter the pits.

[WarpSpeed]

Some quick fixes

Smaller lines are pit entry/exit.

There ya go, well done !! On the second version of the alternative course though you could just merge right into turn 1 from the pits without the need to go wide around it and then blend since it jogs outward it opens a nice entry point..

But yes this is a major concern the most concern of all as I see it very impractical on their part, I did mention the pit exit problems too.. It's a toss up as to which is worse but yes entrance is more of an issue..

Your second plan also slows the cars a bit before the turn as it jogs left but some run off so that's a good plan..

The should run the access road around the other end and think about bleachers on the tree side and into the hill top at the end it would provide some good shade and visual to much of the track..

Edited November 28, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Which way will they go round ? tracks in England for bike race days had sessions alternate it was good fun.

They cannot be serious about the entry or exit for the pits area, they would have to have stopped racing before cars could enter the pits.

Well you have to be really careful about that as the guard rails have an overlapping seam that faces the rider in some cases and blunt walls or end rails at points which can be very dangerous, that was the big issue back in the states with not being able to do alternate motorcycle racing

But according to MRO it seems to be clockwise direction and I think he's right.. Generally this is the accepted proposal being published I hope they can see the problems with this plan and have made sufficient revisions along the way..

[Kwasaki]

Which way will they go round ? tracks in England for bike race days had sessions alternate it was good fun.

They cannot be serious about the entry or exit for the pits area, they would have to have stopped racing before cars could enter the pits.

Well you have to be really careful about that as the guard rails have an overlapping seam that faces the rider in some cases and blunt walls or end rails at points which can be very dangerous, that was the big issue back in the states with not being able to do alternate motorcycle racing

But according to MRO it seems to be clockwise direction and I think he's right.. Generally this is the accepted proposal being published I hope they can see the problems with this plan and have made sufficient revisions along the way..

It's hard to tell from looking at the pictures but it looks too dangerous for motorcycle racing, and rails are like tomato slicers to motorbikes riders.

Maybe it's going to be a go-cart track.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Maybe it's going to be a go-cart track.

That flashed through my mind at first, but the long straights and wide corners make no sense for karting. My guess is it's designed for some sort of whacky new racing class that dictates a maximum of 80 BHP/Tonne

Edited November 28, 2010 by MoonRiverOasis

[MoonRiverOasis]

Some quick fixes

Smaller lines are pit entry/exit.

There ya go, well done !! On the second version of the alternative course though you could just merge right into turn 1 from the pits without the need to go wide around it and then blend since it jogs outward it opens a nice entry point..

But yes this is a major concern the most concern of all as I see it very impractical on their part, I did mention the pit exit problems too.. It's a toss up as to which is worse but yes entrance is more of an issue..

Your second plan also slows the cars a bit before the turn as it jogs left but some run off so that's a good plan..

The should run the access road around the other end and think about bleachers on the tree side and into the hill top at the end it would provide some good shade and visual to much of the track..

Hehe, it takes a pretty terrible design to get me to show off my MS Paint skills in public like that

I'm sure if we all kicked it around for a few days we'd come up with something a million times better though

[WarpSpeed]

Some quick fixes

Smaller lines are pit entry/exit.

There ya go, well done !! On the second version of the alternative course though you could just merge right into turn 1 from the pits without the need to go wide around it and then blend since it jogs outward it opens a nice entry point..

But yes this is a major concern the most concern of all as I see it very impractical on their part, I did mention the pit exit problems too.. It's a toss up as to which is worse but yes entrance is more of an issue..

Your second plan also slows the cars a bit before the turn as it jogs left but some run off so that's a good plan..

The should run the access road around the other end and think about bleachers on the tree side and into the hill top at the end it would provide some good shade and visual to much of the track..

Hehe, it takes a pretty terrible design to get me to show off my MS Paint skills in public like that

I'm sure if we all kicked it around for a few days we'd come up with something a million times better though

Well that's part of the problem they never consult drivers before making these things, they should consider I'm available before it's too late .. JFYI you still haven't had the privilege of experiencing my Photoshop skills they are only second to my Karaoke talents I'm famously known for .......

[BSJ]

If it is track run in clockwork direction coming into the start of the "S" at top of picture there isn't any run off as it is banked! Or is that an optical illusion? Or maybe riders going of are expected to do an "Evil Knievel".

[WarpSpeed]

If it is track run in clockwork direction coming into the start of the "S" at top of picture there isn't any run off as it is banked! Or is that an optical illusion? Or maybe riders going of are expected to do an "Evil Knievel".

It's not an optical illusion it's a hill side, there are several notable safety and common sense issues with this track layout and proposal.. I welcome another track but if it's not going to serve the purpose safely it's going to be an expensive piece of farmland in short order sadly ..

[Flatouthruthefog]

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<br />If it is track run in clockwork direction coming into the start of the "S" at top of picture  there isn't any run off as it is banked!  Or is that an optical illusion?  Or maybe riders going of are expected to do an "Evil Knievel". <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br />It's not an optical illusion it's a hill side, there are several notable safety and common sense issues with this track layout and proposal.. I welcome another track but if it's not going to serve the purpose safely it's going to be an expensive piece of farmland in short order sadly  <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ..<br />

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Here here! They don't consult native English speakers about text, so why ask qualified people about a racing circuit??

The "Thai motorsport official" quoted in the story obviously has no idea where his responsibilities are. (Whoops, sorry, another verboten word around here). So if the owner just likes speed, anything is OK, huh? I thought the RAAT had to sanction circuit designs around here, or am I being old fashioned?

Life is cheap in Thailand, and i for one have better things to do during what may be left of mine.

[thaicbr]

Any track is meant to be driven, to be tamed, regardless of straights, bends etc. Surely the more difficult the better. We now see in F1 the race is held in the pit lane. Bring back a tank of fuel, manual trans and skill, ditch the computer, and race with what is there.

Difficult is good... but it's gotta be safe... as i write this i'm watching Aussie V8 taxi races.. what a difference in tracks. run offs. safety fences and tyre barriers... not tree's banks and concrete walls. Oh and a pit lane like what was mentioned earlier.

[WarpSpeed]

Any track is meant to be driven, to be tamed, regardless of straights, bends etc. Surely the more difficult the better. We now see in F1 the race is held in the pit lane. Bring back a tank of fuel, manual trans and skill, ditch the computer, and race with what is there.

Difficult is good... but it's gotta be safe... as i write this i'm watching Aussie V8 taxi races.. what a difference in tracks. run offs. safety fences and tyre barriers... not tree's banks and concrete walls. Oh and a pit lane like what was mentioned earlier.

Well stated and with common sense too..

Safer tracks actually make for better racing for both the fans and the drivers as the safer you feel the more you push your equipment..

[WarpSpeed]

Any track is meant to be driven, to be tamed, regardless of straights, bends etc. Surely the more difficult the better. We now see in F1 the race is held in the pit lane. Bring back a tank of fuel, manual trans and skill, ditch the computer, and race with what is there.

Difficult is good... but it's gotta be safe... as i write this i'm watching Aussie V8 taxi races.. what a difference in tracks. run offs. safety fences and tyre barriers... not tree's banks and concrete walls. Oh and a pit lane like what was mentioned earlier.

I agree about safe but can it be too safe, l mean a driver can do something stupid to get an advantage cos he knows of the run off or gravel trap. Lots of question marks for me.

So far no one has said anything about too safe, merely common sense safe and if you haven't noticed of several competent opinions here you're the only one contradicting.. A driver can do something stupid if he's stupid too, nothing you can do about that..

Edited December 1, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[hakku]

Looks like fun to me, and master lay-out looks a bit like Kaeng Krachan. I thought this was halted in May this year. Would be good if it comes through, the more tracks, the more fun.

here's KKC track near Cha Am http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/kaeng-krachan-race-track-in-thailand-is-a-hidden-gem-of-a-circuit-ar92999.html

here's a vid

Hak

[WarpSpeed]

Thanks for joining in Hak, but wouldn't you agree it needs some safety improvements? What if you were passing a slower car on the front straight on the downhill and came up on a car slowing to enter the pits (and they'd be going really slow to enter there safely) It would be a nightmarish scenario to be certain..

I think the improvements mentioned would only serve to improve competition and safety for a better show..

Do you know this developer personally?? Maybe some ideas put forth would serve them at this point in it's construction it's not too late.. In fact the timing is pretty good..

[MoonRiverOasis]

Not concerned about people not agreeing or commenting on my thoughts,

F1, l do not watch now as it is won in the pit lane, the cars are engineered so fast that they this run off stuff. The only one l watch is the Monaco GP as it is a racers circuit, exciting, very few OTT safety features where real skill is required and the speed to suit. Where does your OTT safety stuff come into play with Nascar ?

A track is for mastering, driver skill, as you profess to be a top notch driver l don't understand your view.

To think, OH, if l make a mistake l am OK cos something will catch me is nonsense. How do Rally cars deal with the risk every inch of the way. You are a race driver OR you are not.

All points of view expressed here are valid. Walled in tracks dictate strategy and restraint (and balls), open tracks with safety features promote risk-taking. Both are good, just in different ways

[hakku]

Warp's assessment of pit exit is correct though, same for entrance on KKC. It's a hell of a track though, up and down and fast sweepers. And its indeed fine to drive on a track with little room for error, since that involves mainly yourself only.

Think these tracks are build from a hobby/fun perspective and then get used heavily since there are not many alternatives.

Good thing is that most racing here doesnt involve much pitwork, but yeah, coming down the strait in double column and someone exiting might require some pants cleaning....

Basically the same for racing, if you get nudged of, your gonna have to paint the car.

cant wait to try Bonanza

[WarpSpeed]

Difficult is good... but it's gotta be safe... as i write this i'm watching Aussie V8 taxi races.. what a difference in tracks. run offs. safety fences and tyre barriers... not tree's banks and concrete walls. Oh and a pit lane like what was mentioned earlier.

I agree about safe but can it be too safe, l mean a driver can do something stupid to get an advantage cos he knows of the run off or gravel trap. Lots of question marks for me.

So far no one has said anything about too safe, merely common sense safe and if you haven't noticed of several competent opinions here you're the only one contradicting.. A driver can do something stupid if he's stupid too, nothing you can do about that..

Not concerned about people not agreeing or commenting on my thoughts,

F1, l do not watch now as it is won in the pit lane, the cars are engineered so fast that they this run off stuff. The only one l watch is the Monaco GP as it is a racers circuit, exciting, very few OTT safety features where real skill is required and the speed to suit. Where does your OTT safety stuff come into play with Nascar ?

A track is for mastering, driver skill, as you profess to be a top notch driver l don't understand your view.

To think, OH, if l make a mistake l am OK cos something will catch me is nonsense. How do Rally cars deal with the risk every inch of the way. You are a race driver OR you are not.

Well once again you're showing your complete lack of understanding not only in the sport but in the drivers mentality. You have confused safety with a challenging course.. No one here, at least not me is suggesting that a tight course without run off or something is not a drivers challenge. My self my favorite courses have always been the temporary street courses, my first class pole position was on a temporary street course in only my second race still with my rookie stripes on my car, but the courses were still safe in the right places.

If you've ever seen the V8 Super cars for example in Adelaide they don't have an all out straight away where a car can just reach top speed for a kilometer and then have to brake and shift down to 3rd or 2nd gear for a hard turn without a chicane somewhere on the straight and sufficient run off at the end with tire barriers. They also don't have a pit entrance that is in the middle of that straight so you have to slow to a crawl to get into the pits in front of traffic at top speed nor an exit that comes out of a blind spot only meters long while the cars on track are passing flat out and setting up for one of those hard braking corners. It's just common sense and I for one think you're taking a piss if you're not getting that, at least I hope you are..

I think some tracks are way too safe, I hate gravel traps, I'd much rather have a run off so one can continue as that advantage you mentioned has been done in forcing other cars off into the gravel to avoid contact or after having contact and some are way too wide and offer no challenge in passing another driver with mind games which is the best part of racing, the chess match between drivers..

Edited December 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[katabeachbum]

Tell all that to Rally, Nascar and indeed to serious drag race drivers. And before you say how does it affect drag racing, most strips have walls or steel guard rails, nowhere to go, part of the sport, an accepted risk.

If a racer knows he is going into the weeds trying a tight manoeuvre, his skill and forethought will come to the fore, not, OH if l cock it up l will nip round the run off. .

Not taking the piss, it's my view as a spectator in your particular motor sport,

Must say I v always found track racing boring, probably why I chose rally. The excitement of flying over an iced or snow covered gravel road, not knowing how many spectators are on the road after the curve beats all kind of fast driving

Some of my rally mates are still into it at age 50, on occasions beat the younger ones with better equipment and more miles in the spine

[John 1]

For you wimpy ex race car driver's sit back and watch the real mean racing in Sydney now on ubc.

[katabeachbum]

For you wimpy ex race car driver's sit back and watch the real mean racing in Sydney now on ubc.

2 x Wimpy's for me, with onions.

PS. And not so much of the Ex.

still racing, but now on public highways, almost as exciting as rally, as you never know how the others will behave or which side of the road the bikes are coming

[WarpSpeed]

Tell all that to Rally, Nascar and indeed to serious drag race drivers. And before you say how does it affect drag racing, most strips have walls or steel guard rails, nowhere to go, part of the sport, an accepted risk.

If a racer knows he is going into the weeds trying a tight manoeuvre, his skill and forethought will come to the fore, not, OH if l cock it up l will nip round the run off. .

Not taking the piss, it's my view as a spectator in your particular motor sport,

Must say I v always found track racing boring, probably why I chose rally. The excitement of flying over an iced or snow covered gravel road, not knowing how many spectators are on the road after the curve beats all kind of fast driving

Some of my rally mates are still into it at age 50, on occasions beat the younger ones with better equipment and more miles in the spine

Yes and do they still allow the fans to stand in the road like they did 15 years ago completely obscuring the course?? Do they close stages because of too many spectators and safety issues including weather? Do they allow open topped rally cars with a minimum of driver and co-driver protection? Or has all of these SAFETY related issues evolved to serve the current speed and spectator "safety" since we now apply more common sense to safety issues for all participants.

[WarpSpeed]

Tell all that to Rally, Nascar and indeed to serious drag race drivers. And before you say how does it affect drag racing, most strips have walls or steel guard rails, nowhere to go, part of the sport, an accepted risk.

If a racer knows he is going into the weeds trying a tight manoeuvre, his skill and forethought will come to the fore, not, OH if l cock it up l will nip round the run off. .

Not taking the piss, it's my view as a spectator in your particular motor sport,

Must say I v always found track racing boring, probably why I chose rally. The excitement of flying over an iced or snow covered gravel road, not knowing how many spectators are on the road after the curve beats all kind of fast driving

Some of my rally mates are still into it at age 50, on occasions beat the younger ones with better equipment and more miles in the spine

Think this is my point, just DO IT, master the pitfalls, if you are a racer at heart, DO IT, not make a big thing about l might lights out if l over cook it. Bike racing, perhaps the most exiting is the Isle of Man fortnight, real balls racing, no run off''s, pure balls racing, no driver complaints, get on with it, some pay the price but they are RACERS.

BS!!!!

[WarpSpeed]

For you wimpy ex race car driver's sit back and watch the real mean racing in Sydney now on ubc.

I know you can't be speaking of me as I'm no where near retired so yeah I agree that T/A should do less talk and more actual driving! Then he'd have a real educated opinion to bring to the table .. The REAL drivers here have all agreed with my position...