Constitution Court Acquits Thai Democrat

[w11guy]

On a different note, I bet the speed of this has taken many reporters by surprise

Not really. All today's papers said a decision was expected this afternoon. So we got what was expected.

[DickFarang]

No news.

[lannarebirth]

Here's the part I don't understand. Why accept a case for adjudication at all if the very first hurdle, that of filing charges properly, is not met?

[gregb]

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them?

Obviously because the judges differed on their interpretation of what was proper procedure. The point is however that this has nothing to do with the Democrats or their involvement in the scandal to make signs.

This is not about whitewashing anyone. It is a simple procedural point of law. Emotions are clearly running high among the Thaksin supporters, but the simple fact is that if you want to complain about something, you can't blame the Democrats for it. It is a problem separate from them.

[animatic]

Here's the part I don't understand. Why accept a case for adjudication at all if the very first hurdle, that of filing charges properly, is not met?

For the same reason the EC filed it pressure,

and the fear of not being seen as trying to look at the issue.

[wackysleet]

Well I guess if you agree with all the short memoried white shirt arse lickers who think or seem to conveniently forget the violence perpetrated by the white shirts, clearly shown on tv for all to see including the use of guns then the country is quite safe in the hands of ministers content to be in bed with certain corrupt politicians to remain in power at whatever cost and maintaining the wealth of the country in Bangkok for the benefit of the few, and no, I do not support either factions but believe in true democracy not Thailands version.

[MandoDog]

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them?

...This is not about whitewashing anyone. It is a simple procedural point of law...

How can a simple procedural point of law result in a ruling that is not unanimous?

Clearly at least one of your premises is off.

[fxe1200]

My understanding is that they survived on a technicality.

Will we ever know if the offense was as suggested.

What I wanted to know is did they or did they not commit the offense of not playing fairly.

Are they as corrupt as the other parties that have been dissolved?

Probably, but in the end one party has to rule Thailand, the other solution, after all parties are being dissolved because of corruption and graft, is the takeover from the military. And to keep the chronological order, it is about time, isn't it?

[hardy1943]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

So, what difference will it make. The military has the last word and when they say jump better jump high.

[jdinasia]

My understanding is that they survived on a technicality.

Will we ever know if the offense was as suggested.

What I wanted to know is did they or did they not commit the offense of not playing fairly.

Are they as corrupt as the other parties that have been dissolved?

The answer to your final question is NO. (There are dirty politicians in EVERY party --- but by and large the ethics of the Dems are far better than other parties)

Did they commit the offense of making signs that were not exactly the correct size? Yes

Was it an offense that was punishable by dissolution? We don't know.

That is your opinion.

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them? This makes no sense, it is however the whitewash I expected and once again the army backed government get away with committing offences, I bet you can't even see the hypocrisy or will dress it up as something else.

Not a white wash at all (you do know that a white wash is something that creates the illusion of innocence, right? This didn't even address the issue. Why did 2 judges not agree? We will learn more about it soon, but the assumption is that 2 of the judges disagreed on what laws should apply. BTW --- if you want to use whitewash appropriately, Thaksin tried to whitewash himself and TRT by dissolving parliament and holding new elections. His attempt failed.

The Dems are far cleaner than most other parties in Thailand. How can I say this? When they are up on charges, like the firetruck scandal (that included then PM Samak) the Dem Gov of BKK stepped down until the case clears. The PPP PM stayed on even though he was the guy that started the scandal. When the Dems have someone accused of corruption they do the right thing and leave office. Even recently with the by-elections --- that should tell you they choose to be more accountable to the electorate than others.

Please do not change my posts.

[gregb]

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them?

...This is not about whitewashing anyone. It is a simple procedural point of law...

How can a simple procedural point of law result in a ruling that is not unanimous?

Clearly at least one of your premises is off.

People can differ over the interpretation of a procedure. Why do you feel this is impossible?

[hanuman1]

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them?

Obviously because the judges differed on their interpretation of what was proper procedure. The point is however that this has nothing to do with the Democrats or their involvement in the scandal to make signs.

This is not about whitewashing anyone. It is a simple procedural point of law. Emotions are clearly running high among the Thaksin supporters, but the simple fact is that if you want to complain about something, you can't blame the Democrats for it. It is a problem separate from them.

I agree that it's a legal problem. Just as it was the constitution which allowed Taksin to come to power and legally ride roughshod over it, so it is another legal framework which has spawned this charade now. As long as law is seen as a tool rather than an objective moral compass, there will never be a dependable point of reference for what is and isn't legal in this country.

This is still the wild west. That's why we love it, that's why we hate it.

[MandoDog]

If the ruling was based on improper submitting why did two judges find agaisnt them?

...This is not about whitewashing anyone. It is a simple procedural point of law...

How can a simple procedural point of law result in a ruling that is not unanimous?

Clearly at least one of your premises is off.

People can differ over the interpretation of a procedure. Why do you feel this is impossible?

That was not my opinion, I was questioning the conclusion that this was "a simple precedural point of law". I agree with your point, this was obviously not "clear". If it was, then at least 2 (possibly 4) people made significant errors.

[OJAS]

Phew, what a relief. I dread to think of the ructions which might have ensued had Abhisit been forced to resign as PM and succeeded by an incompetent clown in the Samak/Somchai mould.

[hammered]

Here's the part I don't understand. Why accept a case for adjudication at all if the very first hurdle, that of filing charges properly, is not met?

Im sure that point will need to be clarified. I would guess, and it is only a guess, that because of the date of the case it was filed under a later constitution/law and could be deemed that it needed to be judged under an ealrier law/constitution. At some point that point of law needed to be clarified. Today was the day that happened and not the day it was submitted. Which law was to be used was always debated in the media. It wouldnt suprise me if there 4 votes to use one law and that law had a 15 day limit and 2 votes to use another law which probably had no or a different limit. We should see it analysed to death tomorrow.

Try reading the 2001 asset declaration decision for how complicated things get when you aggregate different decisions under code law. It is almost impossible to understand but in the record reads as a majority of one with the largest numbers of votes for a single finding being outvoted by adding the even smaller number of votes for two (or was it three) other findings.

[PREM-R]

Was this ever in doubt? Would the "Junta" have allowed their political wing to be disbanded? Next step: Yellow Shirts cause disruption in Bangkok, army called in, Coup mid-December.

[hammered]

Was this ever in doubt? Would the "Junta" have allowed their political wing to be disbanded? Next step: Yellow Shirts cause disruption in Bangkok, army called in, Coup mid-December.

Erm if you read the Thai forums and media across the spectrum, it was felt that if a coup was going to happen the Dems would be disolved first to create the chaotic conditions to justify it. That scenario just disappeared. To be honest with Suthep ridiculing the PAD in Dem heartland and their relevenece plummeting where are they going to find the numbers to create the chaos to have a coup launched against a PM who it is widely believed the army boss is closer to than the previous army boss especially wiht the constiotutional changes sailing through right now.

[SomTumTiger]

Well I guess if you agree with all the short memoried white shirt arse lickers who think or seem to conveniently forget the violence perpetrated by the white shirts, clearly shown on tv for all to see including the use of guns then the country is quite safe in the hands of ministers content to be in bed with certain corrupt politicians to remain in power at whatever cost and maintaining the wealth of the country in Bangkok for the benefit of the few, and no, I do not support either factions but believe in true democracy not Thailands version.

Sounds like you are describing Thaksin lol

[Robby nz]

Now all we need is for Jataporn's bail to be withdrawn to make it a perfect day.

[SomTumTiger]

Now all we need is for Jataporn's bail to be withdrawn to make it a perfect day.

Amen to that Robby!

[wackysleet]

Well I guess if you agree with all the short memoried white shirt arse lickers who think or seem to conveniently forget the violence perpetrated by the white shirts, clearly shown on tv for all to see including the use of guns then the country is quite safe in the hands of ministers content to be in bed with certain corrupt politicians to remain in power at whatever cost and maintaining the wealth of the country in Bangkok for the benefit of the few, and no, I do not support either factions but believe in true democracy not Thailands version.

Sounds like you are describing Thaksin lol

Is there a difference???? apologies, I did mean yellow shirts.

[SomTumTiger]

Well I guess if you agree with all the short memoried white shirt arse lickers who think or seem to conveniently forget the violence perpetrated by the white shirts, clearly shown on tv for all to see including the use of guns then the country is quite safe in the hands of ministers content to be in bed with certain corrupt politicians to remain in power at whatever cost and maintaining the wealth of the country in Bangkok for the benefit of the few, and no, I do not support either factions but believe in true democracy not Thailands version.

Sounds like you are describing Thaksin lol

Is there a difference???? apologies, I did mean yellow shirts.

Well, considering the yellows hate the current government, and both yellow and red have a faltering power base, I would say that the new Thai political order is becoming more clear each passing week.

[webfact]

Key facts about Thailand's ruling party

BANGKOK, November 29, 2010 (AFP) - Thailand's ruling Democrat Party was saved from dissolution on Monday when the Constitutional Court dismissed a case alleging misuse of a state grant in 2005.

The following are key facts about the political group:

-- The Democrat party, founded in 1946, is the oldest party in Thailand and is seen as a conservative, pro-monarchy and establishment force.

-- The Democrats have headed a six-party coalition since December 2008, taking power in a parliamentary vote after court decisions ousted allies of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who was unseated in a 2006 coup.

-- The leader of the party is British-born and Oxford-educated Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, aged 46, who has backers in the military and Bangkok-based elite.

-- Anti-government "Red Shirts", who mostly support Thaksin, held crippling mass protests in April and May calling for snap elections, saying Abhisit is elitist and undemocratic.

During the rallies, more than 90 people were left dead and almost 1,900 wounded in clashes with security forces.

-- The Democrats' main support base is in Bangkok and southern provinces, while Thaksin's stronghold is the poorer, rural north and northeast.

-- Abhisit used to be closely linked to the anti-Thaksin "Yellow Shirts", whose protests in 2008 -- culminating with an airport blockade -- helped to bring down the former government, but relations have since soured.

-- In a separate case from Monday's trial, the Democrats face accusations of an undeclared political donation.

-- Abhisit is due to call an election before his term ends at the end of 2011.

-- Ahead of Monday's verdict, former Thai diplomat Pavin Chachavalpongpun said he did not believe the party would be disbanded because the powers behind it "need someone to be in charge at this critical time in Thai politics".

"It's not really that those that back the Democrats really like the party that much, but they don't have any alternative," the author said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-11-29

[timekeeper]

no surprise there then

i predicted this last year

it was a failed cause as soon as Arisaman illegally entered the EC building and threatened the EC commissioners

if the reds want to blame someone, then blame him

why anybody wasted any time over this issue is beyond me

i also predicted that Abhisit and Korn will be returned with a landslide in 2011

so lets move on now, boys and girls, nothing to see here........

[yumidesign]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

agree.......we all wish this, well those who use a signature and not a finger print

[chevykanteve]

All it took was reaching ONE single point that invalidated the entire procedure and the suit is over. It's not a case of not getting into the basis of the charges merits, because they are moot if the suit is not proper, properly filed, or correctly legal to proceed upon. Seems they found a very early issue that closed things down. It of course calls for a simple reading of what basis for throwing out the case was about, and nothing further was needed. No doubt they new this early on and went through the formality of allowing closing arguments, but the hint was that a ruling would come today after lunch, with an obvious lack of need to analyze the closing arguments at all.

So this is all over except the Red sides howling into the night about....

insert expletive here.

over and over again.

Your points should be agreeable to many, without a doubt. But.... it.... could not possibly have been a foregone conclusion. I mean, not with all this "Good Governance" and liberalism the country's been experiencing these past 4 years or so! Not to mention the death of corruption corresponding to Thaksin's ouster in a military coup sponsored by the corruptless. Let's all relish this freedom!

[hammered]

no surprise there then

i predicted this last year

it was a failed cause as soon as Arisaman illegally entered the EC building and threatened the EC commissioners

if the reds want to blame someone, then blame him

why anybody wasted any time over this issue is beyond me

i also predicted that Abhisit and Korn will be returned with a landslide in 2011

so lets move on now, boys and girls, nothing to see here........

Interesting set of predictions. I congrtaulte you on your success so far. Part tow may be a little harder although there are people increasingly wantuing to not be excluded from power for much longer in PTP who think Thaksin is fighting a losing game now. Still it may not be the Dems that profit form that if indeed anyone does.

[anterian]

I once lost a court case on a technicality (in England), a friend has a visa application rejected on a technicality. I think all laws should be sufficiently clear for "technicalities" not to exist. But then we would not need lawyers, it is no surprise that most laws are written by lawyers in their final draft.

[MrWizard]

Well I guess if you agree with all the short memoried white shirt arse lickers who think or seem to conveniently forget the violence perpetrated by the white shirts, clearly shown on tv for all to see including the use of guns then the country is quite safe in the hands of ministers content to be in bed with certain corrupt politicians to remain in power at whatever cost and maintaining the wealth of the country in Bangkok for the benefit of the few, and no, I do not support either factions but believe in true democracy not Thailands version.

Sounds like you are describing Thaksin lol

Ofcourse this was expected, other party viseversa. But not the Reds are the losers here, Thailand as a whole in my opinion. This is about independent justice and democracy. If you are on the PAD side in this case then you are nothing better then the TRT. And yes, let me make it clear PAD or TRT both have pros and cons. But what government the Thai people chooses, it is their choosen party and government, so we have to live with it.

My only hope is that this and future (whatever side) governments will be there for all Thai people and not just a selected group. Progress have to be made on all fronts, nobody left out.

I hope I may enjoy Thailand much much longer and wish a lot of wisdom for every Thai party.

Edited November 29, 2010 by MrWizard

[rubl]

Ha ha are they corrupt. If one party get banned over 3,000 Bht and the other survives on the misuse of 29,000,000 not to mention the gift that they received from TPI that is worth many millions of dollars but which does not seem to get to the court anyhow than you know who is the most corrupt. But than again: If you are a great conman you will be inline to become PM. Conmen are hot in Thailand. You can become politician or judge. So all parties are corrupted.

TPI by the way, screwed their creditors for billions of dollars with their NPL's so you see who is the most corrupted here.

The concept of mythbusting is often misunderstood. It's trying to analyze a myth to see if there's any truth in it. Well, in the part quoted above a few 'facts' are not true, which makes the conclusion and some speculation in between a wee bit suspect as well