How To Operate A (Usa) 220V/60Hz Electric Dryer In Los

[thailoht]

Most small motors will run on 50Hz but slow and may overheat but are not likely to burn out.

A split phase induction motor will overheat and burn out.

However a 60Hz induction motor can be run if the supply voltage is reduced to 0.833 x 220V, ie to 180V at 50Hz.

Believe we are talking about 110V motors in the dryer and the 230 volts only being used for the heater from what was stated above.

110/120V 60Hz . you might get away with a 220/100V 50Hz transformer for the drive motor and use the 220V 50Hz supply for the heaters.

You may have problems with the voltages for the electronics.

If I am lucky enough to get this dryer operational by wiring its 110V circuitry and running it through a transformer(?) while the heater runs off the Thai 220v - the electronic components will be left to fend for themselves in the 50 Hz environment. Is this the scenario? Can there be another solution?

If it is: (1) Will the dryer have 2 power cords: one cord = 110V and one cord = 220V? And if so, how do I correctly connect the wires (in the cord from the dryer) to (the terminals) on a Thai plug?

[InterestedObserver]

If I am lucky enough to get this dryer operational by wiring its 110V circuitry and running it through a transformer(?) while the heater runs off the Thai 220v - the electronic components will be left to fend for themselves in the 50 Hz environment. Is this the scenario? Can there be another solution?

If it is: (1) Will the dryer have 2 power cords: one cord = 110V and one cord = 220V? And if so, how do I correctly connect the wires (in the cord from the dryer) to (the terminals) on a Thai plug?

The diagram provide by Tywais in post #24 will give you 110/220 VAC, commonly called split-phase in the US, from a single female receptacle. Just make sure that the combined capacity of the two step down transformers is adequate for the dryer and that you get the polarities correct when making the primary/secondary connections.

[thailoht]

If I am lucky enough to get this dryer operational by wiring its 110V circuitry and running it through a transformer(?) while the heater runs off the Thai 220v - the electronic components will be left to fend for themselves in the 50 Hz environment. Is this the scenario? Can there be another solution?

If it is: (1) Will the dryer have 2 power cords: one cord = 110V and one cord = 220V? And if so, how do I correctly connect the wires (in the cord from the dryer) to (the terminals) on a Thai plug?

The diagram provide by Tywais in post #24 will give you 110/220 VAC, commonly called split-phase in the US, from a single female receptacle. Just make sure that the combined capacity of the two step down transformers is adequate for the dryer and that you get the polarities correct when making the primary/secondary connections.

Thanks IO :jap:! Please excuse my ignorance here, but, being that I can't read an electrical schematic, (though I'm going to surely learn after all this!), would you take a few moments to explain the step-by-step connections of Tywais diagram in post #24?

Exactly why are (2) transformers required? Couldn't I just 'plug-in' the (2) 110V(?) connections (as illustrated in the diagram) into one 8000 Watt transformer that accepts (2)-110V input plugs? If I must use (2) transformers, with this dryer rated at 5,600 Watts, will using (1) 3000 Watt and (1) 5000 Watt transformer be sufficient? Or must each transformer (individually) handle the 5,600 Watts?

Also, the diagram shows connections for the110V power into the transformers and then (1) plug from the transformers (to the wall outlet)? Where is, (what happened to), the original '220V power cord'?

[DoubtingThomas]

O.K. let me summarize the expert's submissions:

1. It will work

2. It won't work

3. There is only 120v in the US

4. There is not only 120v in the US

5. The motor will run

6. The motor won't run

7. The motor will overheat and burn out

8. The motor might overheat but won't burn out

9. There is a God

10. There is not a God.

I'm not going to comment directly on which of the above statements are correct. Suffice to say that they are all there and some are wrong, some are right and some are in the middle. It is my observation that if somebody asks a question it is because they don't know the answer so why oh why, just like many other subjects in this forum, do a whole bunch of people who also do not know the answer respond? Look, the bloke asking the question admits he doesn't know, so how the heck is he to figure out which one of you is stumbling over the keyboard after a career in road sweeping and fifteen pints of Guinness and which one of you holds a degree in Electrical Engineering and is a Washer/Dryer expert? If you don't know, or are not sure, SHUT UP. Especially with a subject like this, which could prove to be lethal.

Here are a couple of facts to consider:

1. The (nominal) 240v available in the US is derived from a center tapped transformer (power company). The 240v thus comes from two 120V supplies either side of a center tapped grounded neutral. So, to ground, (earth) you will never be more than 120v. Having had a few 120v belts I can vouch that it is not nice but usually not fatal (I may be dead and not know it, but that is another forum). In most of the civilized world (it's a joke , Yanks) the supply is a nominal 230v relative to neutral, so you could get a 230v belt. I've had one of those too (dam_n, I am dead) and trust me, it hurts a lot more. Normally this is not a problem. But I see people here effectively advocating taking the bloody thing apart to split the 240v and 120v components. Unless you are an expert, DON'T DO IT unless you want yourself, your missus of your kids to get electrocuted.

2. I've taken a look at a couple of the wiring diagrams and they are a mixture of 120v and 240v (usually just the heater) components. It certainly would be possible to split them and use an auto transformer to drive the lower voltage parts, but unless you're an expert yourself (I mean an expert, not a hobbyist) don't touch it. See note above. If you do not heed this advice, please send me your address because there are a couple of people I wouldn't mind, ahem, eliminating, so I'll send them over with their washing. If you do get an expert to do it, it will cost you far more than just buying one locally and you've got no warranty. Oh, by the way, if you get the auto transformer the wrong way round (easy to do) your "neutral" is no longer grounded, so to ground you'll either get a 120v or a 240v belt. Depending on your luck.

Now you all have to decide whether I'm pouring my 15th Guinness before putting my mop and broom away or I have a little idea of what I'm talking about. Up to you.

[Crossy]

Well, as DT notes we have some differences of opinion although we mostly agree that this needs caution.

You can have mine for what it's worth, yes I have a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering from Bath Uni. although I keep my mop and brush on standby in case I need to clear up after 16 pints of Guinness.

There are far too many variables for a definitive answer to this issue (as witnessed by the varied opinions expressed in this thread). However, having examined in almost no detail the schematic posted above my humble opinion is LEAVE WELL ALONE.

Reasoning:-

This is a fairly modern unit, therefore the motors (there are two) will have been designed down to a price and stand a greater chance of saturating on 50Hz with the associated overheating and potential burnout. Many older appliances had massively over-engineered motors that would happily run forever on 50Hz, these are the ones that are still trundling on and disproving all the nay-sayers about 60Hz motors on 50Hz.

The heater has a triac controller, you can bet the electronics that drives it (we don't have that part of the diagram) is designed for 60Hz and may get somewhat upset on 50Hz, leading to either no heat or max heat at all times, of course it could also work just fine.

Perfectly adequate dryers designed for the local power are available here.

Finally, and most importantly:-

The OP is a self-confessed electrical dunce and as DT indicates stands a very good chance of frying himself and/or his dryer.

IF the dryer was already here (and it was mine) then I may have a shot of getting it to go and run the risk of killing it, but I certainly would not consider buying one to ship here. If the dryer was the simple unit I posted the diagram of in post #8 I'd certainly give it a whirl.

[DoubtingThomas]

Cheers Crossy. Sensible advice indeed.

Your round. I'll have another Guinness.

I left the mop on the floor, don't trip over it!

[Tywais]

Also one of my degrees is in Electrical Engineering and chief engineer at a university but I will back peddle a little on my previous comment. The drawing I showed of a pseudo 110/220 split phase using isolation (step down) transformers probably not financially practical after calculating the power requirements of the mentioned dryer.

This info is mainly for the technically curious: The heater portion is around 23 Amps or 5kW and the transformers will be expensive. An example here of one unit costing 21,000 Baht and would need 2.

Just to define voltage distribution of the system: The drum motor, electronics, timer and steam generator operate off L1-N (110). The blower motor operates off of L2-N (110). The heater off of L1-L2 (220V) with the triac probably as temperature regulator. As mentioned, the triac may be an issue but if used as a temperature regulator and the support electronics uses standard zero-crossing switches probably not a problem.

Having seen the schematic, I agree with the above that it is just not realistic to modify it with too many unknowns. The isolation transformer method is expensive and again the motors may be an issue.

Bottom line, I agree not worth the effort/expense/safety and just get one here.

[thailoht]

O.K. let me summarize the expert's submissions:

Here are a couple of facts to consider:

1. The (nominal) 240v available in the US is derived from a center tapped transformer (power company). The 240v thus comes from two 120V supplies either side of a center tapped grounded neutral. So, to ground, (earth) you will never be more than 120v. Having had a few 120v belts I can vouch that it is not nice but usually not fatal (I may be dead and not know it, but that is another forum). In most of the civilized world (it's a joke , Yanks) the supply is a nominal 230v relative to neutral, so you could get a 230v belt. I've had one of those too (dam_n, I am dead) and trust me, it hurts a lot more. Normally this is not a problem. But I see people here effectively advocating taking the bloody thing apart to split the 240v and 120v components. Unless you are an expert, DON'T DO IT unless you want yourself, your missus of your kids to get electrocuted.

2. I've taken a look at a couple of the wiring diagrams and they are a mixture of 120v and 240v (usually just the heater) components. It certainly would be possible to split them and use an auto transformer to drive the lower voltage parts, but unless you're an expert yourself (I mean an expert, not a hobbyist) don't touch it. See note above. If you do not heed this advice, please send me your address because there are a couple of people I wouldn't mind, ahem, eliminating, so I'll send them over with their washing. If you do get an expert to do it, it will cost you far more than just buying one locally and you've got no warranty. Oh, by the way, if you get the auto transformer the wrong way round (easy to do) your "neutral" is no longer grounded, so to ground you'll either get a 120v or a 240v belt. Depending on your luck.

Now you all have to decide whether I'm pouring my 15th Guinness before putting my mop and broom away or I have a little idea of what I'm talking about. Up to you.

I appreciate your input. My intent is to determine whether or not it is possible / practical to run an American dryer in LOS. The dryer and (2) transformers are here and available to me for next to nothing, financially speaking, so the only thing standing in the way is the technological logistics. I never had any intention of personally performing any of the electrical work as I have no expertise in this area whatsoever......I just want to understand all that is involved in case I would have to look to get the work done by a competent electrician.

Well, as DT notes we have some differences of opinion although we mostly agree that this needs caution.

You can have mine for what it's worth, yes I have a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering from Bath Uni. although I keep my mop and brush on standby in case I need to clear up after 16 pints of Guinness.

There are far too many variables for a definitive answer to this issue (as witnessed by the varied opinions expressed in this thread). However, having examined in almost no detail the schematic posted above my humble opinion is LEAVE WELL ALONE.

Reasoning:-

This is a fairly modern unit, therefore the motors (there are two) will have been designed down to a price and stand a greater chance of saturating on 50Hz with the associated overheating and potential burnout. Many older appliances had massively over-engineered motors that would happily run forever on 50Hz, these are the ones that are still trundling on and disproving all the nay-sayers about 60Hz motors on 50Hz.

The heater has a triac controller, you can bet the electronics that drives it (we don't have that part of the diagram) is designed for 60Hz and may get somewhat upset on 50Hz, leading to either no heat or max heat at all times, of course it could also work just fine.

Perfectly adequate dryers designed for the local power are available here.

Finally, and most importantly:-

The OP is a self-confessed electrical dunce and as DT indicates stands a very good chance of frying himself and/or his dryer.

IF the dryer was already here (and it was mine) then I may have a shot of getting it to go and run the risk of killing it, but I certainly would not consider buying one to ship here. If the dryer was the simple unit I posted the diagram of in post #8 I'd certainly give it a whirl.

Also one of my degrees is in Electrical Engineering and chief engineer at a university but I will back peddle a little on my previous comment. The drawing I showed of a pseudo 110/220 split phase using isolation (step down) transformers probably not financially practical after calculating the power requirements of the mentioned dryer.

This info is mainly for the technically curious: The heater portion is around 23 Amps or 5kW and the transformers will be expensive. An example here of one unit costing 21,000 Baht and would need 2.

Just to define voltage distribution of the system: The drum motor, electronics, timer and steam generator operate off L1-N (110). The blower motor operates off of L2-N (110). The heater off of L1-L2 (220V) with the triac probably as temperature regulator. As mentioned, the triac may be an issue but if used as a temperature regulator and the support electronics uses standard zero-crossing switches probably not a problem.

Having seen the schematic, I agree with the above that it is just not realistic to modify it with too many unknowns. The isolation transformer method is expensive and again the motors may be an issue.

Bottom line, I agree not worth the effort/expense/safety and just get one here.

Relying on the opinions and advice of you degreed Electricians plus the other posters, I agree that the unknown factor of how 'todays' 60 Hz-configured electronics will holdup in a 50 Hz environment makes this project too risky to pursue....(though it's tempting to just 'go for it' - but 'logic' [no pun intended] must prevail ).

Even though there is negligible personal financial cost for me to pursue this project - I would have used a 3000 Watt and a 8000 Watt (far less expensive) American transformers that are already here plus the dryer would come as a favor....but, with the understanding I would make 'good use' of it - so this would have been more of a challenge.

From only knowing Pos, Neg and ground, I have gotten a fascinating insight of the world of applied electricity while researching this project. I am going to get more involved in this field.....

BTW, are these the equivalent of the 21,000 baht model?: 3000 Watt Transformer 8000 Watt Transformer

Edited December 8, 2010 by thailoht

[InterestedObserver]

Even though there is negligible personal financial cost for me to pursue this project - I would have used a 3000 Watt and a 8000 Watt (far less expensive) American transformers that are already here plus the dryer would come as a favor....but, with the understanding I would make 'good use' of it - so this would have been more of a challenge.

You would not need both transformers, the 8000 watt model (LR-8000) has both 110 and 220 VAC outputs already. You would need the diagram of the LR-8000 to confirm its internal connections and suitability plus a competent electrician to work some magic on both the 5kW dryer and step down transformer/regulator.

[thailoht]

Even though there is negligible personal financial cost for me to pursue this project - I would have used a 3000 Watt and a 8000 Watt (far less expensive) American transformers that are already here plus the dryer would come as a favor....but, with the understanding I would make 'good use' of it - so this would have been more of a challenge.

You would not need both transformers, the 8000 watt model (LR-8000) has both 110 and 220 VAC outputs already. You would need the diagram of the LR-8000 to confirm its internal connections and suitability plus a competent electrician to work some magic on both the 5kW dryer and step down transformer/regulator.

Thanks IO.

I guess it's all summed up:Since there's no clear chance of success, I won't commit to owning the dryer.

The 21,000 Baht transformer looks scary!

I'll just keep running my (American 110V/60Hz) microwave and washer off of their 3000 Watt converters and prepare to buy a good electric dryer here after the holidays.