Urgent Advice Needed - New Passport/Stamp Problem

[probert]

Hi everyone,

My situation is quite tricky and I hope someone can give me some good advice on this.

Basically this relates to my previous post about waiting for my new passport to arrive and overstaying.

My passport has just come today and I have just jumped straight on the bus to go to the border. I am now 3 days overstay. The problem I have is that my 30 excempt stamp which is in my old passport fiished on the 02d December and ofcourse the old passport is electronically deactivated as I have a new one. I have taken both passports with me. now I didnt want to go to Jomtien because of fear they would arrest me so I thought maybe they would either :

Stamp the new passport at the border with the 02d December expiry and then charge me the 1500 baht, or ;

Stamp the old passport and let me out on that passport without even involving the new passport.

I am heading to the Malaysian border as I have freinds in KL and I am planning on getting a tourist visa from KL also.

To be honest I really bricking it but i dont know what else to do. Take chances at the border or take a chance going to an immigration office first and face arrest.

Advice would be so helpful. Its a shame as I have bee here for 2 years now on non Imm O visas and this was the only time I have had a problem because the last month I have been on this excempt 30 day because I needed a new passport.

Thanks in advance

[Maestro]

Well, it's five hours since you posted and I don't know where your bus trip started and where you are now, but both options you considered are workable. The standard way to do it is to go to the immigration office first to have the last entry stamp transferred to the new passport (no risk of arrest), but going directly to the border, with both the old and the new passport, can also be done (risk of arrest only if police stops you on the way to the border).

[tombkk]

Well, it's five hours since you posted and I don't know where your bus trip started and where you are now, but both options you considered are workable. The standard way to do it is to go to the immigration office first to have the last entry stamp transferred to the new passport (no risk of arrest), but going directly to the border, with both the old and the new passport, can also be done (risk of arrest only if police stops you on the way to the border).

If the old passport has become invalid, can he really go to the border and use it for existing the country? I would think he has to transfer the stamp (nad pay the overtime fee) as the only solution.

I don't see a chance either of getting arrested when he goes to immigration to transfer the stamp.

[Maestro]

Other members have reported doing it without a problem.

[tombkk]

Other members have reported doing it without a problem.

Interesting. European passports get stamped "Invalid" all over and are not usable any more - you seem to suggest that US passports don't show any signs of being invalid. That said, he would still try to cross a border with an invalid passport, even though the Thai immigration might not know it. It's always better to stay on the legal side of things and do it correctly, IMHO.

[lopburi3]

The OP has a UK (not US) passport and they do the process by mail while holding onto old passport so old passport is not physically altered by any government official.

[Maestro]

...If the old passport has become invalid, can he really go to the border and use it for existing the country? ...

No, he cannot, nor does probert consider doing it. He wrote that he just received his new passport and it is with this new passport that he plans to exit Thailand; it is in this new passport that he will receive his Thai departure stamp, the Malaysian arrival and departure stamps, and the new Thai arrival stamp upon his return to Thailand.

When a foreigner leaves Thailand, the immigration officer wants to see his last arrival stamp and if this is in the old, invalidated passport, this is what he needs to show for this purpose.

[tombkk]

The OP has a UK (not US) passport and they do the process by mail while holding onto old passport so old passport is not physically altered by any government official.

I stand corrected. I assumed (wrongly) that all EU countries are the same: My passports gets stamped "Invalid| all over, and they physically cut a corner off, the moment I pick up my new passport. With UK passports being issued in Hong Kong now, that's of course different.

I couldn't find the passage where he says he has a UK passport, though.

[tombkk]

...If the old passport has become invalid, can he really go to the border and use it for existing the country? ...

No, he cannot, nor does probert consider doing it. He wrote that he just received his new passport and it is with this new passport that he plans to exit Thailand; it is in this new passport that he will receive his Thai departure stamp, the Malaysian arrival and departure stamps, and the new Thai arrival stamp upon his return to Thailand.

When a foreigner leaves Thailand, the immigration officer wants to see his last arrival stamp and if this is in the old, invalidated passport, this is what he needs to show for this purpose.

Hm, I hope yo are sure about this. I wouldn't try to leave the country with the entry stamp in an invalid passport, I would go to immigration to have it moved to the valid passport. But then, your suggestion might work, it is really up to the Thai law. In many countries, permissions to stay are valid until the date stamped "as long as the passport is valid". Well well, this is an interesting point.

The OP must be travelling by now. I hope he updates us on what happened when he returns.

[Lite Beer]

He has a UK Passport and his old one would have previously had the corners cut.

This no longer applies if applying by mail to Hong Kong.

[Maestro]

...Hm, I hope yo are sure about this. I wouldn't try to leave the country with the entry stamp in an invalid passport, I would go to immigration to have it moved to the valid passport...

Going to the immigration office first for a transfer of the necessary stamps is indeed the standard and recommended procedure, but some members who did not know about it or were in a hurry and went directly to the border have posted that they had no problem with this. The immigration official at the border transferred the last entry stamp from the old to the new passport, put the exit stamp in the new passport, and the traveller went on his way.

If more than the last entry stamp had to be transferred, eg also an extension stamp, the immigration officer at the border might say that he has a problem with it but I do not know for sure. Can't remember if anybody ever posted about having this done.

[tombkk]

...Hm, I hope yo are sure about this. I wouldn't try to leave the country with the entry stamp in an invalid passport, I would go to immigration to have it moved to the valid passport...

Going to the immigration office first for a transfer of the necessary stamps is indeed the standard and recommended procedure, but some members who did not know about it or were in a hurry and went directly to the border have posted that they had no problem with this. The immigration official at the border transferred the last entry stamp from the old to the new passport, put the exit stamp in the new passport, and the traveller went on his way.

If more than the last entry stamp had to be transferred, eg also an extension stamp, the immigration officer at the border might say that he has a problem with it but I do not know for sure. Can't remember if anybody ever posted about having this done.

It is good to know that the border immigration officers can indeed transfer the last entry stamp from an expired passport!

This should be good news for the OP, and I hope he will post again soon.

[probert]

Hi everyone,

Firstly a big thanks to everyone who gave a response regarding my issue with the passports. Sorry for the delay in replying but I did not have much battery on my laptop while I was away. I dont know if anyone will ever get themselves into this exact situation but if they do here is the story/outcome :

Arrived at Sadao border with the two passports in hand. The old one (only electronically deactivated) and the new one. Went to the second floor office where there were two policeman sitting watching the birthday celebrations on the TV and didnt look too pleased to be interuppted. Sat down and said I am very sorry but I have overstayed 3 days because my new passport was late (slight lie). Slight 'uhhhh' from the policeman and then got the paperwork out. Paid the 1500 baht and then his colleague double checked it. Very important to note that at this point they had not checked anything on the computer or swiped the old passport. They only filled out the forms, took the money and then stamped the old passport with the all ok.

I knew I wasnt in the clear as no one knew yet that this old passport was invalid. After all this finished he said 'now you go box and get stamp' Oh sh*t, they are gonna swipe it and then find out its invalid and then it will all come out' . So went over to the box and gave the old passport. To my amazement she seemed to catch on straight away and just said 'ok I will stamp you out from Thailand in old passport and you get stamp from Malaysia in the new one'. She did not even swipe or key the old passport into the computer, just a exit stamp in the old one. Then she said if you want to come back you have to have a exit stamp from Malaysia in your new passport.

At this point I was very thankful and amazed how this did not seem to be a problem, thinking I was in the clear. No stamp transfers, no questions, no swiping or scanning, only the 5th Dec exit stamp in the old passport. Started walking down the border area to Malaysia happy as larry. Got to the Malaysian border, said to the girl here is my exit stamp from Thailand in my old passport and please can you use the new passport. She said 'no' 'you cannot do this' 'If you want to come into Malaysia with your new passport then I need to see you left Thailand on your new passport'

So I walked all the way back to the Thai border and the same box. Explained the situation to the girl again who simply said sorry i cannot stamp your new passport because you did not enter Thailand on the new one originally back in November. At this point I had a vision of being stuck in no man's land and did not know what to do. I could not get into either country.

So I went back to the Malaysian border, spoke to a more senior guy and he still said no. Went back to the Thai border again and just said please please help because now I cannot go into any country and I am stuck. They went and fetched another girl, who was higher up. Explained it to her. After a 5 minute discussion she took both passports into her office and then started writing on a page in my new passport. She filled up 3/4 of the page with writing (thai) and then finally put a 5th december exit stamp on the same page at the bottom. Gave me the passport and again I was very thankful. Went to the Malaysian border and got in fine. To be sure there was no problem regarding the writing on this page I went straight back into Thailand, got the 15 days and early next week im going to get a tourist from Loas.

So in the end it all ended ok but I know I was very very lucky as I get the feeling that the girl may of broken a rule and that is probably why she wrote so much on that page. I asked my wife when I got back and the best she could explain was that she wrote about everything that had happened along with her ID details.

What a weird situation. I have to say that at every point the staff at Sadao were very helpful, good english and obviously very patient with me.

Thanks again for all your input on here in trying to help. When I originally posted I did not have much time so sorry I did not reply earlier. I hope this information maybe of use to someone in the future.

Thanks

[tombkk]

Thanks for your feedback. It is always good to know the real outcome after there was so much speculation.

My guess is that she legally transferred the stamp, and I wager that in her position and rank, she was allowed to, and knew that. However, I might be mistaken. Let's not dwell on it but treat it is what it is: A case successfully closed.