6 People In A 5 Seater

[manarak]

Soon I will have to rent a car.

Since it will be for short distances only, I wondered if there will be issues with Thai traffic police if 4 Adults and 2 children of 5 and 8 years of age sit in a 5 seater (for example Toyota Vios or Honda City), without and special child seats.

Considering I often see 10 Thais traveling on the back of a pickup, I guess there shouldn't be any problems, but since TiT, I thought I'd ask anyway.

So... have any of you done this, and have you had problems with police?

[katabeachbum]

No problem with Police at all. Number of passengers in cars, pickups and large trucks is not enforced. Only passengers in pickupbeds and trucks is denied on (highspeed) expressways around bkk.

However the 6th person is not covered by any vehicle insurance, and your travel insurance will probably say its illegal in case of claim

Seat belts are only mandatory to use in front seats.

Warning, only one passenger in front seat if equipped with airbag

[manarak]

Thanks for the excellent information!

Off we drive to the beach then :-)

[MoonRiverOasis]

Last April I had 13 people in a 7-seater, got stopped at numerous checkpoints and only once had to pay 100 Baht for driving on red plates after 6PM - not one police cared at all about how many people were in the car

[phaethon]

I can't believe this thread.

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/going-through-windshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

[neverdie]

^I would have to agree & can't understand why anyone, irregardless of nationality would want to take the risk of having an unrestrained child in a motor vehicle. Of course, its going to be one of the children who isnt restrained properly because in the situation outlined by the OP, its hard to imagine a child occupying a seat whilst an adult bounces around in between passengers unrestrained.

Please OP, use your brain, come up with another solution, I've seen the results of children being ejected from motor vehicles involved in collisions and its never pretty.

[neverdie]

I can't believe this thread.

http://www.documenti...ndshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

oooooop's.

One in three bikes pass my house over loaded, 4 or 5 up. Nobody cares, even the law. If the kids are restrained it's up to the adults to weigh up their risks.

Whilst you are partially right, some people have no education on the topic OR perhaps little or no options. Having said that, it doesnt make it right and the OP should seriously weigh up his options rather than just resort to saying that because he's seen the locals doing it, it will be okay because the Police do nothing. Time to get smart, don't ya think?

[MikeyIdea]

There's a very easy answer to what this topic is about. It's all up to you as a driver to make it safe for your passengers

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

If you are fairly new to Thailand or still feel confused/not sure when you drive here, then give it a miss

[neverdie]

There's a very easy answer to what this topic is about. It's all up to you as a driver to make it safe for your passengers

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

If you are fairly new to Thailand or still feel confused/not sure when you drive here, then give it a miss

The morgues are full of people that had these sort of beliefs & the old, 'It won't happen to me syndrome'.

Irregardless of how good of a driver anyone is, its not always possible to counteract what some imbecile does in their car & in the event of an accident, innocent children should be restrained appropriately (especially when somebody has the options and means to do so). Go and take a look at a few dead children that have been ejected from cars in collisions & you will see what I'm talking about.

You want to ride around without the belt on, thats fine, as an adult you can make those decisions, its darwinism at its finest, but children need to be restrained.

ps: Its amazing that alot of people will come up with the same theory as you and if it were correct, why is it that some of the worlds best drivers have been killed in motor vehicle collisions?

Edited December 7, 2010 by neverdie

[MikeyIdea]

There's a very easy answer to what this topic is about. It's all up to you as a driver to make it safe for your passengers

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

If you are fairly new to Thailand or still feel confused/not sure when you drive here, then give it a miss

The morgues are full of people that had these sort of beliefs & the old, 'It won't happen to me syndrome'.

Irregardless of how good of a driver anyone is, its not always possible to counteract what some imbecile does in their car & in the event of an accident, innocent children should be restrained appropriately (especially when somebody has the options and means to do so). Go and take a look at a few dead children that have been ejected from cars in collisions & you will see what I'm talking about.

You want to ride around without the belt on, thats fine, as an adult you can make those decisions, its darwinism at its finest, but children need to be restrained.

I have seen dead children on the roads in Thailand, adults too, some restrained, some not, some with helmets, some without

That's why I dare to write what I did

[docenglish]

Just hire a larger car then you won't have to worry about anything and it will be more comfortable for everyone. Try finding a company with a Toyota Avanza, or Wish, Innova if you have more money to spare.

[MikeyIdea]

The Avanza is a very good car, loud though (surprisingly loud) so not for motorways or long distance. Also available as renting vehicle

Edited December 7, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MoonRiverOasis]

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

I've driven several hundred thousand KM's on Thai roads, but any children in my cars must wear seat belts, no exceptions. In fact that's why I bought the wife a 7-seater - by the time our kids, the nieces and nephews are all on board, every chair is occupied and everyone has a seatbelt.

12 Drunken adults partying on a 150KM road trip, hanging out the windows and being general louts during Songkran make their own decisions though

Edited December 7, 2010 by MoonRiverOasis

[MikeyIdea]

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

I've driven several hundred thousand KM's on Thai roads, but any children in my cars must wear seat belts, no exceptions. In fact that's why I bought the wife a 7-seater - by the time our kids, the nieces and nephews are all on board, every chair is occupied and everyone has a seatbelt.

12 Drunken adults partying on a 150KM road trip, hanging out the windows and being general louts during Songkran make their own decisions though

Nothing beats motorcycle on Songkran, much wetter

[BSJ]

if one passenger doesn't have a safety belt the driver should refrain from wearing his!

[MoonRiverOasis]

if one passenger doesn't have a safety belt the driver should refrain from wearing his!

LOL Should I also go and sit in the back with the louts that have the tailgate open and their legs hanging out the back of the car too? Would be a slow trip on idle, and I'd probably get tired with running up to the front to change steering angle all the time

Then again at least I could have had a drink too, because I could argue that the car has no driver

Edited December 7, 2010 by MoonRiverOasis

[neverdie]

I have seen dead children on the roads in Thailand, adults too, some restrained, some not, some with helmets, some without

That's why I dare to write what I did

I'm reading your post, looking for logic, obviously where there is none.

[neverdie]

I've driven several hundred thousand KM's on Thai roads, but any children in my cars must wear seat belts, no exceptions. In fact that's why I bought the wife a 7-seater - by the time our kids, the nieces and nephews are all on board, every chair is occupied and everyone has a seatbelt.

I would have expected a man of your standing within the TV community to state such a thing.

Your driving experience & is only exceeded by you high level of displayed intelligence. Pity everyone can't operate at the same high level.

Please refer to my signature for any further comment.

[Kwasaki]

If there's only one seat belt for the two children pick your favourite.

Jokes aside hirer a bigger vehicle, easy, simple, best way to go.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Kwasaki

[manarak]

The question of what type of vehicle to rent is a question of what risk level is acceptable.

As the father and head of family, the decision is up to me.

I have looked for Toyota Fortuner and other vehicles - not only is the daily price double of the price of a Honda City, but there is also a 3 day minimum rental...

yeah, sounds bad to take risks with the life of children because of some cash, eh?

well, consider this:

Do you always do everything you can to minimize risks?

...

yes?

...

LIAR!

This would mean flying only expensive airlines with your family, driving at very slow speed, hire super-safe school transport for your kids, not to eat at restaurants, etc. the list goes on and on.

Safest is staying at all times inside a controlled atmosphere cocoon.

Let's face it, life is full of risks and no, I cannot eliminate risks by renting a bigger vehicle.

Just hire a larger car then you won't have to worry about anything and it will be more comfortable for everyone.

Completely wrong. This kind of attitude gets you in trouble because of not paying attention.

Can someone tell me the difference in absolute risk of loss of life or major injuries (in %) between driving a Fortuner with everyone belted and a City with one of the children in mama's arms in the back?

Who does seriously believe the bigger car will make a big difference, i.e. more than 0.01% per kilometer?

can't believe this thread.

http://www.documenti...ndshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

I pretend there is a much bigger risk in *legally* having a child as a passenger on a motorbike.

This seems more reckless to me.

Get your senses together, people get killed while crossing roads, while eating bretzels, etc.

Risk is a continuous function, doing everything by the book reduces risk, but it doesn't eliminate risk.

I never had an accident in the 20 years I drive and I already drove in Thailand. Here I drive very defensively, when possible I remain always within traffic, where it is safest, rather than trying to be the first to start at the green light with the risk of being run over by a ten wheeler that couldn't stop in time at the red light.

Thai traffic flows very smoothly and drivers are very considerate of others - they drive conservatively while breaking a lot of traffic laws, quite the opposite behavior from Europe, where many people drive very aggressively while mostly staying within regulations.

Edited December 7, 2010 by manarak

[MikeyIdea]

I have seen dead children on the roads in Thailand, adults too, some restrained, some not, some with helmets, some without

That's why I dare to write what I did

I'm reading your post, looking for logic, obviously where there is none.

Time to be controversial in this issue is basically over as all occupants including my daughter always put their seat belt on themselves now a days but for those who don’t understand the logic, here’s the explanation;

I’d rather see my daughter a passenger of an old car so old that it doesn’t have seatbelts and airbags driven by Katabeachbum, Moonriveroasis or myself any day rather than as a passenger of a new car with both seatbelts and 8 airbags driven by an average driver. Manarak seems a good candidate to add to the list too. The driver is 99.9% of the safety provided, of course seat belts and airbags are good post event measures and should be used if they exist but they are very secondary to pre event measures

Why? Because of the numerous dead in traffic accidents I have seen in my life, some had worn seatbelts others not, some had worn helmets others not, the dead didn’t seem to care if they were using seatbelts or helmets or not, they were still dead

[katabeachbum]

The question of what type of vehicle to rent is a question of what risk level is acceptable.

As the father and head of family, the decision is up to me.

I have looked for Toyota Fortuner and other vehicles - not only is the daily price double of the price of a Honda City, but there is also a 3 day minimum rental...

yeah, sounds bad to take risks with the life of children because of some cash, eh?

well, consider this:

Do you always do everything you can to minimize risks?

...

yes?

...

LIAR!

This would mean flying only expensive airlines with your family, driving at very slow speed, hire super-safe school transport for your kids, not to eat at restaurants, etc. the list goes on and on.

Safest is staying at all times inside a controlled atmosphere cocoon.

Let's face it, life is full of risks and no, I cannot eliminate risks by renting a bigger vehicle.

Just hire a larger car then you won't have to worry about anything and it will be more comfortable for everyone.

Completely wrong. This kind of attitude gets you in trouble because of not paying attention.

Can someone tell me the difference in absolute risk of loss of life or major injuries (in %) between driving a Fortuner with everyone belted and a City with one of the children in mama's arms in the back?

Who does seriously believe the bigger car will make a big difference, i.e. more than 0.01% per kilometer?

can't believe this thread.

http://www.documenti...ndshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

I pretend there is a much bigger risk in *legally* having a child as a passenger on a motorbike.

This seems more reckless to me.

Get your senses together, people get killed while crossing roads, while eating bretzels, etc.

Risk is a continuous function, doing everything by the book reduces risk, but it doesn't eliminate risk.

I never had an accident in the 20 years I drive and I already drove in Thailand. Here I drive very defensively, when possible I remain always within traffic, where it is safest, rather than trying to be the first to start at the green light with the risk of being run over by a ten wheeler that couldn't stop in time at the red light.

Thai traffic flows very smoothly and drivers are very considerate of others - they drive conservatively while breaking a lot of traffic laws, quite the opposite behavior from Europe, where many people drive very aggressively while mostly staying within regulations.

totally agree with you

travelling 4 adults and 2 kids in a Vios is much safer than motocy, in the bed of a pickuptruck, in the back seat of a 2+2 door pickup or any tuk tuk.

I have used child seats since 1982, but that was in another world, Europe. Here in LOS I adapt to the culture and we travel with what we have and provide the best safety based on what we have. Going 15 people, perhaps 7 are seated inside 4 door pickup and the rest in the bed. Speed and alert level accordingly.

For the 6th person (kid) in the Vios, there is a huge improvement in safety if mum uses rear seat 3 point seatbelt while holding the kid.

Restraining kids is recommended, but not required by law in LOS. Neither are rearseat belts.

[katabeachbum]

I can't believe this thread.

http://www.documenti...ndshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

overloading it is not, not in load capacity

having one more kid in the car than registered and insured for it is. Legal in a lot of countries.

Illegal? any links on thai law?

accepted in LOS and most of Asia and Africa. Absolutely

[Forethat]

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

Ehhhh, sure, as long as all of them are buckled up. (which is exactly what you meant, I hope!!!) Edited December 8, 2010 by Forethat

[MikeyIdea]

Katabeachbum and Moonriveroasis have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the road in Thailand and are very capable of safely going to the beach with the car full of kids, I do the same. If you are not new to Thailand and drive defensively and carefully, off you go, have a nice time at the beach

Ehhhh, sure, as long as all of them are buckled up. (which is exactly what you meant, I hope!!!)

This post should answer that question

I'd rather see my daughter a passenger of an old car so old that it doesn't have seatbelts and airbags driven by Katabeachbum, Moonriveroasis or myself any day rather than as a passenger of a new car with both seatbelts and 8 airbags driven by an average driver. Manarak seems a good candidate to add to the list too. The driver is 99.9% of the safety provided, of course seat belts and airbags are good post event measures and should be used if they exist but they are very secondary to pre event measures

Why? Because of the numerous dead in traffic accidents I have seen in my life, some had worn seatbelts others not, some had worn helmets others not, the dead didn't seem to care if they were using seatbelts or helmets or not, they were still dead

If the car has seat belts, then why not use them? But if I got the opportunity to choose between sitting my daughter in an old car without seatbelts and airbags driven by a very safety concious and experienced driver like Katabeachbum or Moonriveroasis or a nice new car with seatbelts and 8 airbags driven by an average driver, then I would choose kata and moonriver any day. Of course

Wouldn't you too?

Edited December 9, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[steve187]

Just think of this while driving 'every other car on the road is doing there best to kill you' it makes you more aware

[MoonRiverOasis]

Just think of this while driving 'every other car on the road is doing there best to kill you' it makes you more aware

I just think of it as snow skiing.. watch all sides for scuds, learn to predict what the novices stuck in snow ploughs will do next, avoid snowboarders at all costs, always be prepared for chopped up cover and moguls, do your best to get in front of the pack and stay there, and when the opporunity arises, go find a black run and have some fun

[Kwasaki]

I can't believe this thread.

http://www.documenti...ndshield-28575/

Just because the Thais do it does not mean the laws of physics are more lenient here.

This is a discussion of illegal, intentional and reckless overloading, why is it still running?

overloading it is not, not in load capacity

having one more kid in the car than registered and insured for it is. Legal in a lot of countries.

Illegal? any links on thai law?

accepted in LOS and most of Asia and Africa. Absolutely

Sorry, standing room only inside, Ding, Ding.

Must add, in my part of the country, kids go to and from school in/on the back of covered pickups/buses which always have kids hanging out the back, no seat belts, no nothing, it's Thailand.

It's a disgrace they should be made to wear seat belts. ( The nanny state supporters club) :lol: