Marriage Of A Non-moslem Girl With A Moslem Guy

[zaz]

In answer to a couple of queries above, firstly, a Muslim guy can only marry a Christian or a Jew mainly because they believe in a God (that's the primary reason, there may be other factors also). The most important thing in Islam is to believe in God (one God) which is why the non-Muslim wife is preferred to come from one of the other mainstream religions.

Pork is from the "forbidden" animal. There are many reason why we cannot eat it and these reasons, incidentally, are exactly the same as the reasons given in Judaism i.e. it is a disgusting animal, eats anything and everything etc etc

True also that we are not permitted to drink alchohol either, the reasons for which are very obvious. I'm not sure about smoking though, I think this would probably come under the category of inflicting self harm, which of course is also frowned upon.

I don't eat pork, never have never will, I don't drink, never had a single drop (except on the lips of a lady....) I do however smoke...

Edited August 17, 2005 by zaz

[mrbojangles]

Pork is from the "forbidden" animal.  There are many reason why we cannot eat it and these reasons, incidentally, are exactly the same as the reasons given in Judaism i.e. it is a disgusting animal, eats anything and everything etc etc

I know of this one but someone also told me another reason once. It was back in the very, very old days, obviously. Anyway, eating Pork, killed some people and so they thought that God punished them for eating it. Obviously, it was down to the fact that Pork has to be cooked properly and is hard to keep. Is this also true? Can someone clarify please. Or is it just HOGWASH

MrBoJ

[zaz]

No I don't think that's true - someone's telling porkies......

[mrbojangles]

No I don't think that's true - someone's telling porkies......

I'll CHOP their tongue out when i see them

[mrbojangles]

No I don't think that's true - someone's telling porkies......

I'll CHOP their tongue out when i see them

Or would that be too RASH(er)

[Khutan]

I know of this one but someone also told me another reason once. It was back in the very, very old days, obviously. Anyway, eating Pork, killed some people and so they thought that God punished them for eating it. Obviously, it was down to the fact that Pork has to be cooked properly and is hard to keep. Is this also true? Can someone clarify please. Or is it just HOGWASH 

MrBoJ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats what I was led to believe.

So the Muslim man will allow a Buddhist shrine in the house ?

Anyway, this reminds me of the Jew who lived next to two catholics. Every Friday the catholics would be out the front (neighbourhood USA) and they would B-B-Q their fish. At the same time the Jew would get a huge juicy steak and B-B-Q it. Anyway this was too much for the catholics, so over time they converted him to being a catholic. The next week (after the conversion) they are all out b-b-q'ing again and the convert has a huge steak. The two catholics come over to see whats going on and the convert is pouring water on the steak saying "Born a cow, raised a cow - you are now a fish"

[sbk]

Undercooked pork can give trichonosis. Not nice, and incurable back in the old days I believe.

One of our staff is a Buddhist girl who converted to Islam to marry her husband. According to her, the biggest problem with her family is the fact he didn't come to the parents before they got married. He is a lovely guy, helps her wash the dishes, often cooks their dinner. So, what does being Muslim have to do with anything other than she no longer eats pork? Not much, local Muslims are pretty easygoing about most stuff (some even eat pork, alot of them drink and smoke).

Unless there is alot of pressure from either family then I would guess their chances of success would be about the same as anyone elses.

[Ice Maiden]

I know some Muslims that drink alcohol. Not everybody is as strict about there religion as others. I'm a Christian myself and alot of Christians don't believe in sex before marriage and also born again Christians. But I don't believe in any of that. I do have troubles sticking to my Religion because my family are not as serious about Christianity as me and most of them don't believe it. I also have no Christian friends in Pattaya which is very hard for me, but my faith brings me back to God everytime.

[zaz]

I think when it comes to religion, when you step over a particluar line then surely you can't be classed as being a Muslim or Christian etc. For example a Muslim who drinks alchohol and eats pork etc etc in my opinion is not a Muslim at all. He/she certainly won't pray 5 times a day or fast during the month of Ramadan while doing those things too so what's the point in classifying that person as a Muslim?

I myself am in a very confusing predicament of late. My personal circumstances have been particularly difficult over the past few years, which I haven't yet gone into the details of on any forum. Due to this my "religiousness" has suffered, but, I still believe in God and fear from Him and know what's right and wrong. Without going too far off topic, the fact that one starts to make allowances for things that are particularly required or forbidden by one's religion surely takes that further away from being associated with their religion?

Q: How far would a Christian/Jew/Buddhist need to go before you would say he/she isn't a Christian/Jew/Buddhist at all?

[Ice Maiden]

I think when it comes to religion, when you step over a particluar line then surely you can't be classed as being a Muslim or Christian etc.  For example a Muslim who drinks alchohol and eats pork etc etc in my opinion is not a Muslim at all.  He/she certainly won't pray 5 times a day or fast during the month of Ramadan while doing those things too so what's the point in classifying that person as a Muslim?

I myself am in a very confusing predicament of late.  My personal circumstances have been particularly difficult over the past few years, which I haven't yet gone into the details of on any forum.  Due to this my "religiousness" has suffered, but, I still believe in God and fear from Him and know what's right and wrong.  Without going too far off topic, the fact that one starts to make allowances for things that are particularly required or forbidden by one's religion surely takes that further away from being associated with their religion?

Q: How far would a Christian/Jew/Buddhist need to go before you would say he/she isn't a Christian/Jew/Buddhist at all?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but I don't know if I'm just speaking for Christianity here but there are so many different opinions, views and interpretations in the Bible now that we carn't really judge what is right or wrong. In my personal opinion I believe I strongly hold my faith in my heart and read the Bible. That is enough for me to say I am a Christian.

[donna]

I was speaking to a Muslim friend (E) and a friend of no specified religion © the other day.

C asked me if I would convert to Islam if I were to meet a Muslim man and want to marry him. E listened very carefully as he is a devout Muslim and he was interested in how I would reply to this.

I told him that, in my opinion, religion is all in the heart. Many religions have the same basic principles and as long as I lived my life in a good way that should be enough. I carry the same basic beliefs as any of us and consider myself generally a good person. We don't need a religion to categorise ourselves.

E told me that I was right on, which I was very happy to hear. His opinion is that if you live a good life without hurting people and doing bad stuff then you are OK.

Religion is a label only.

Having said that, I had a boyfriend from Indonesia at one stage who was a Muslim. Lovely guy. And his family are wonderful too. We considered getting married, but it was my choice not to. Religion was nothing to do with it. There were many other factors that I considered before parting with him. But overall, his family were willing to accept that I would be a 'nit nawy' Muslim. They knew I would not pray 3 or 5 times a day. They knew I would not cover myself from head to toe all the time. But they were willing to accept me as I am. Of course, I would have made compromises, and that's life, but those compromises were not too much to make.

Would I change my religion? Perhaps.

[zaz]

You know talking about it is one thing but in practice we'd all be surprised what changes stem from being in love....

[Kerryd]

Over the past couple of years here (working in Afghanistan), I've met many Muslims/Moslems/Believers in Allah.

I find it very interesting the differences between the Muslims in different countries. For example, in Egypt they produce their own beer (and many Egyptians drink it of course), even though alcohol is forbidden in the Koran.

When asked about it, the people I met simply said that they were more "progressive" than other Islamic countries.

I also noticed that many Egyptian women weren't wearing any kind of head covering, though most of the Arab female tourists were wearing the full length, black abayas.

I asked why you don't see many Arab tourists at the pyramids and other sites. I was told that most of the Arabs come to Egypt to go to the nightclubs and go shopping (kind of like Pattaya).

Here in the 'stan, many of the locals frequently ask me to bring them magazines with "sexy" photos, and booze (primarily vodka and beer). Unfortuantely for them, I don't have access to that kind of stuff here on the camp (maybe that's a good thing ?).

Back in Canada, I know Muslim men and women who drink, smoke and may even eat pork on occassion (I even know a Jewish guy that will eat pork if there's nothing else appetizing on the menu).

We were serving a catered meals to the unit one weekend. I stopped one of the guys to tell him that he was about to take something that contained pork. He replied that it was OK, today he was Hindu. The next day we had a beef meal. He came up in the line, I informed him that the main choice was beef and he replied that today he was Muslim, so it was OK.

These are people that were born and raised in Canada, to "old world" parents. No doubt that at home they don't act the same, but overall, they are no where near as devoted as their parents.

In some areas of the world, they adhere to a much stricter version of the faith, to the point of fanaticism. Elsewhere, the people (and the religion) are adapting and evolving to become more in step with the rest of the world (which upsets a lot of the "old school" believers).

As for marriage between religions. In this part of the world I'm lead to understand that the men are dead-set against any of their women marrying a non-Muslim. They like non-Muslim women to fool around with, but would only consider marrying a true believer. It's difficult to even talk to a woman in this place, even for professional (business) reasons.

If the feelings between the 2 people are strong enough to withstand the outside interference (parents, in-laws, friends, co-workers, ect), then maybe a mixed (religion) marriage can work. Not something I'd bet money on though.

[bina]

I even know a Jewish guy that will eat pork if there's nothing else appetizing on the menu).

i eat everything in site, living or dead, dont go to synagogue, dont believe in god, dont fast on yom kippur (my parents do, though they dont keep shabbat); but am jewish (genetically and culturally) and live now in israel... my ex, a kibbutznik, doesnt eat pork and fasts, but hates the religious othodox jews here... a yemen girl who works with me (and is learning about budhism due to thai workers here with me) is super religious, but still wears pants, not a skirt (her sister, as sompong pointed out, wears long skirts)...

religious etc is such a complicated thing: point: the other day was a very 'sad' day among orthodox jews , the fall of the second temple, which is a fast day... i tried to explain to sompong, who's knowlege of judaism and israel history is zilch... so: everyone is sad because an ancient building was destroyed and destroyed our ancestors.. his question: so what?

why ravid doesnt eat pork: he still offers her his delicious thai food everyday, and she politely refuses, and when he used her dishes (in my office) and she had to boil them to 'kasher' them again, he thought it was hilarious; and i couldnt explain why pork is 'bad' , and in general he thought she was moslem cause she's dark skinned and doesnt eat pork which is how moslems are........all very confusing and rather funny

we have two or three religious moslem workers, lots of guys that are arab moslem like i am ashkenazi jewish (in name only), etc etc.... my daughter has beduin friends that go with the whole head covering thingy, and some arab friends that look like they stepped out of hi/so fashion

i'm pretty much with donna's post : live and let live as long as you work well, pull your weight, respect the people around you, and their practices, and no fighting over stupid things

but marrying someone often means changing afterwards as i've said before, due to in law pressure, or a 'return to the roots' when children are born, etc....my ex who used to not fast on yom kippur etc is suddenly doing all these 'religious' things now that he has a slightly religious new partner, and this of course affects the children...

food for thought

[singa-traz]

Over the past couple of years here (working in Afghanistan), I've met many Muslims/Moslems/Believers in Allah.

I find it very interesting the differences between the Muslims in different countries. For example, in Egypt they produce their own beer (and many Egyptians drink it of course), even though alcohol is forbidden in the Koran.

Never heard of non-alcoholic beer ?

Ask for an Halal Beer.

[bina]

theres also that disgusting malt beer that my kids love

[corkscrew]

Over the past couple of years here (working in Afghanistan), I've met many Muslims/Moslems/Believers in Allah.

I find it very interesting the differences between the Muslims in different countries. For example, in Egypt they produce their own beer (and many Egyptians drink it of course), even though alcohol is forbidden in the Koran.

Never heard of non-alcoholic beer ?

Ask for an Halal Beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It still has .05 alcohol. Not enough to get you high...but enough to piss off the man in the sky.

[ajarnmark]

Hi all,

I was going through the thread by senoi (do i remember her name correctly?  ). While reading I come across some replies which are too biased and shows the background of the respondent. 

Ok, now here is a real story again. This time this story does not belong to the guy I mentioned in my earlier post. 

One of my friend is moslem (never mentioned him before  ) and he is going to marry his buddist gf. Both of them are working as respectable professionals and both agreed that the girl need not to be converted. They also agree that girl can eat pork, if she wants. They also decide that their baby will not follow any religion till he is young, he will choose his religion once he grow up. 

Now, my question is from those people, who send pathetic replies. What do u think about this guy and what are your predictions for the future of this couple?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It all depends on how strict they feel about their religions, and how their families react. Both these factors would make a big difference to the success of their marriage.

Many Muslims are not fanatic about their religions, although that can change.

I have a friend who is married to a Muslim; the only problem they have is that he will not kiss her after she has eaten pork!! so she does not bother to eat it, it's not so important to her.

Defining people by their religion can be a bit predjudicial, unless they do it themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is wrong with eating pork? Why is it different from eating beef or fish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A muslim cannot eat pork. The Quran strictly prohibited 4 things for muslims.......

1. Fresh Blood

2. Dead Animal

3. Pork

4. Offerings to non-God (i.e. anyone other than God)

I also agree with zaz that a muslim man cannot marry a non-book girl, i.e. religions other than jews or christians.

btw, zaz can u pm me?

[TokyoT]

Now, my question is from those people, who send pathetic replies. What do u think about this guy and what are your predictions for the future of this couple?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not think the guy is a very strict follower of the Muslim religion if he is willing to both marry a girl who will not convert, and to also agree not to raise any children as Muslims from birth.

But I actually think this gives them a better chance of making it as a couple. They (he) may face problems in the future should he develop into a “stricter follower”.

[stats]

Never heard of non-alcoholic beer ?

I drink Malta--- a non alcoholic beer after a football game ot make my body relax...and a good nite sleep.....

[Kerryd]

Never heard of non-alcoholic beer ?

Ask for an Halal Beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I can find out, Stella is definitely not "Halal". Apparently there are 3 varieties ranging from 3.5 to 5 % alcohol by volume.

Oddly enough, Stella is now produced by Heineken (they bought Stella in 1992). Probably explains why it is so weak

[cathyy]

As for marriage between religions. In this part of the world I'm lead to understand that the men are dead-set against any of their women marrying a non-Muslim. They like non-Muslim women to fool around with, but would only consider marrying a true believer.

If a child's father is Muslim, the child is considered to be Muslim, just like the child of a Jewish mother is considered to be Jewish, even is the father isn't. The reason for Muslim women to marry Muslim men is to have Muslim childen. Also know that in Islamic countries children stay with their father after a divorce or separation under Islamic law. It makes sense if the mother is an unbeliever and the father is Muslim, and the LAW is Islamic. That is one reason to tread very carefully into a mixed marriage with a Muslim man.

That said, my sister-in-law is quite happily married to a Muslim man -but their daughter has no passport, and won't. She does fear he might take their daughter from the US to visit his home, and not bring her back. Culturally, he has the right to both do so and expect his wife to either move to his country or give up her daughter permanently.

[singa-traz]

Never heard of non-alcoholic beer ?

Ask for an Halal Beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I can find out, Stella is definitely not "Halal". Apparently there are 3 varieties ranging from 3.5 to 5 % alcohol by volume.

Oddly enough, Stella is now produced by Heineken (they bought Stella in 1992). Probably explains why it is so weak

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heineken targets Muslim markets

Brewers Go Head to Head in Battle for Muslim Markets

But, never tested one of those.

[slackula]

<OT>

Sorry to be off-topic but I always thought that the Koran doesn't explicitly forbid alcohol. I was told it does forbid being falling down drunk and the alcohol ban is a modern interpretation of that. Anybody know more?

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread

</OT>

[slackula]

If a child's father is Muslim, the child is considered to be Muslim, just like the child of a Jewish mother is considered to be Jewish, even is the father isn't. The reason for Muslim women to marry Muslim men is to have Muslim childen. Also know that in Islamic countries children stay with their father after a divorce or separation under Islamic law. It makes sense if the mother is an unbeliever and the father is Muslim, and the LAW is Islamic. That is one reason to tread very carefully into a mixed marriage with a Muslim man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that under Islamic law a child carries the religion of the father, hence the death penalty in many M.E. countries for a Muslim woman who bears the child of a Christian or a Jew since it is every Muslim's duty to propagate Islam and not another religion.

I was told of this in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS when I worked in Abu Dhabi and it was thought that I was eyeing a Lebanese co-worker (I wasn't: she had more facial hair than me and a unibrow like a beaver's tail )

I don't know if the death penalty is mandated in the Koran

[zaz]

I believe that under Islamic law a child carries the religion of the father, hence the death penalty in many M.E. countries for a Muslim woman who bears the child of a Christian or a Jew since it is every Muslim's duty to propagate Islam and not another religion.

I was told of this in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS when I worked in Abu Dhabi and it was thought that I was eyeing a Lebanese co-worker (I wasn't: she had more facial hair than me and a unibrow like a beaver's tail  )

I don't know if the death penalty is mandated in the Koran

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That death penalty is news to me...However another fact of Islam is that every single newborn child, regardless of which family/race/religion he/she is born into is born as a Muslim. This is why when a non-Muslim adult later chooses to follow Islam he/she is referred to as a revert rather than a convert because he/she has reverted back to Islam.

[planemad]

Wow, this thread has become quite diverse, from "will a mixed marriage survive" to "alcohol free beer and why can't Muslims eat pork?”

My comment for what it’s worth, a mixed marriage is as good as the people who are getting married. 30% of western marriages fall apart, and they are probably from similar faiths, so who are we to judge the chances of others?

As to the “laws” of the Koran, I live in a Moslem country (Oman), they are very moderate, it is “wet”, and I can share a beer or three any night of the week with them, falling down drunk is not acceptable, and as has been pointed out, smoking is self destructive, therefore not to be encouraged.

Pork, simply remember that Mohammed (may he rest in peace), when he wrote the book about 1425 years ago, wrote what was then thought to be a reasonable guide on how to remain a devoted Moslem which included a few do’s and don’ts. Pork decays very quickly in a hot climate, and has to be cooked correctly. Not so easy for group of Bedouins and desert dwellers who are always on the move. I therefore believe that many of these “tips for survival”, which were quite relevant at the time, have now been honed by the fundamentalists into what is now considered Law.

By the way, most Arabs still prefer to eat with their fingers, right handed of course. So, we the westerners come along and try to make them use knife and fork.

Question, which hand do most (right handed people) hold their fork???

(Americans need not answer as this might be far too difficult), sorry, just couldnt resist it!

[chonabot]

It still surprises a lot of people who don't look into religions realise that Jews,Christians and Muslims are connected by their line of beliefs.

Book 1 = The Torah ( Old Testament) = Jews

Book 2 =Bible ( New Testament ) = Christians

Book 3 = Qu'ran = Muslims

The Qu'ran has references to the 2 earlier documents and all believe in the same God. The difference being that each religious group believe that their prophet was the chosen one and therefore negates the previous martyr/prophet.

A big problem in the Muslim word is the differnece between Islamic law and the cultural ( usually Arabic) law of that nation. Hence the punishment of death by stoning ifor cheating wive's by some nations still ( eg Syria ) The Qu'ran does not uphold that law , but these things are usually interpretated in different ways by different folks. Even the Sunni muslims have 4 different books of law.

Back to the original question , it all depends on how the couple , the guy in particular, decides he wants to adhere to his traditional customs or not.

Good luck , they will need it , after all marriage is hard enough isn't it ?

Edited August 20, 2005 by chonabot

[TizMe]

The difference being that each religious group believe that their prophet was the chosen one and therefore negates the previous martyr/prophet.

This isn't correct chon,

Jesus was a muslim prophet, as was Abraham and many many others. They do believe, however, that the prophet Mohammed, was to be the last prophet and the final message from god was presented to him.

[chonabot]

The difference being that each religious group believe that their prophet was the chosen one and therefore negates the previous martyr/prophet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't correct chon,

Jesus was a muslim prophet, as was Abraham and many many others. They do believe, however, that the prophet Mohammed, was to be the last prophet and the final message from god was presented to him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct sir , that was my intended message that seemed to get lost in the diatribe I was typing at the time. The jews hold that Abraham was their ultimate prophet , the Christains maintain that he was superseded by Jesus, the Muslims say that Mohammed was the the ultimate. therefore negating the importance of each previous "sects" Chosen one.......I thionk......