Varee Hair Police

[MagnumForce]

It would be good if more people will sue schools for all the BS what they allow teachers to do, painful physical punishment, confiscating mobile phones and other things, humiliating in front of the class etc. I hear some stories sometimes from a student at the Christian school near the Narawat bridge... Disgusting to hear what an idiots some power addicted teachers are.

The wife's friend's son goes to that school. What stories have you heard?

[whatsupdoc]

My son will most likely move to NIS next year. True, it is far more expensive than Varee but I feel that NIS is a school that offers a good education where individual development, expression and creativity are really stimulated instead of having the students confirm to arbitrary norms.

Not that I think Varee is a bad school, but it is too Thai in my opinion. Their apparent rules about hair length is just one of the things confirming that for me (there are others but I do not want to elaborate).

The content of the education is far more important to me than the image of the school for the outside world (nothing wrong with that at NIS either). Respect for rules is a good thing, but so is questioning whether the rules are right or not. The ability to think for yourself is something to be cherished in any education.

[alfieconn]

Not that I think Varee is a bad school, but it is too Thai in my opinion.

:D What was you expecting ? we're in Thailand, the school is run by Thais with predominately Thai teachers working to a Thai Curriculum and i doubt very much that the owners have ever studied in a western country

It seems to me that there are only 2 choices, an international school or a Thai school with no in between.

[CMgossip]

Not that I think Varee is a bad school, but it is too Thai in my opinion.

It seems to me that there are only 2 choices, an international school or a Thai school with no in between.

Unfortunately this does seem to be the case; there really is not a good in-between option available in Chiang Mai. The true international schools range from fairly pricey to seriously expensive depending on which one you are looking at, but they do offer, to varying degrees, the standard of education that most educated western parents would want for their kids, if they could afford to provide it.

If you aren't too flush then you are forced to start looking for an in-between option. Recently the favoured in-between option (according to ThaiVisa at least) seems to be the "International Annexe" at Varee, but from the gossip that CMgossip has been hearing recently there are issues there too; issues more serious than hair length!

It's a shame to bash the "International Annexe" as it is a real attempt at providing an in-between option, but it has some fairly significant problems that parents paying prices similar to the lower priced true international schools should be aware of. Unfortunately it is not at the moment staffed by a full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials (i.e. proper qualified teachers with credentials from their own countries), there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps, and even students being given "study periods" where staffing has not been available at all. I'm sure this is acceptable to some parents, but to many others I don't think it will be.

[alfieconn]

Not that I think Varee is a bad school, but it is too Thai in my opinion.

It seems to me that there are only 2 choices, an international school or a Thai school with no in between.

Unfortunately this does seem to be the case; there really is not a good in-between option available in Chiang Mai. The true international schools range from fairly pricey to seriously expensive depending on which one you are looking at, but they do offer, to varying degrees, the standard of education that most educated western parents would want for their kids, if they could afford to provide it.

If you aren't too flush then you are forced to start looking for an in-between option. Recently the favoured in-between option (according to ThaiVisa at least) seems to be the "International Annexe" at Varee, but from the gossip that CMgossip has been hearing recently there are issues there too; issues more serious than hair length!

It's a shame to bash the "International Annexe" as it is a real attempt at providing an in-between option, but it has some fairly significant problems that parents paying prices similar to the lower priced true international schools should be aware of. Unfortunately it is not at the moment staffed by a full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials (i.e. proper qualified teachers with credentials from their own countries), there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps, and even students being given "study periods" where staffing has not been available at all. I'm sure this is acceptable to some parents, but to many others I don't think it will be.

As a matter of interest why would you say it is an in between option rather than a full blown international school ?

[slinky1876]

It's a shame to bash the "International Annexe" as it is a real attempt at providing an in-between option, but it has some fairly significant problems that parents paying prices similar to the lower priced true international schools should be aware of. Unfortunately it is not at the moment staffed by a full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials (i.e. proper qualified teachers with credentials from their own countries), there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps, and even students being given "study periods" where staffing has not been available at all. I'm sure this is acceptable to some parents, but to many others I don't think it will be.

I would love to know where you got your information from. It's very good hearing this and that from a friend, and this and that from some you say hello to sometimes at Rimping. But before you ever post, check your information out. Its wrong, very wrong. CMgossip. Do your homework and don't make yourself look stupid. You may feel good for posting utter bullsh*t but it does more harm than good.

[Krupnik]

Send your child to an International School that does not impose hair style restrictions such as NIS, for example.

[CMgossip]

First to answer alfieconn as to why I don't refer to Varee's "International Annexe" as a full blown international school. The reason is the same as why Varee themselves are careful to never actually refer to the annexe as an international school; because it isn't one.

To call it an international school it would need to be accredited by one of the international organisations that accredit international schools - this it has not done. All of the true international schools in Chiang Mai have this accredirdation and can therefore use the name. At least that's how I understand it!

And so to slinky1876:

1. I would love to know where you got your information from.

It comes from 2 students in the annexe at Varee

2. Its wrong, very wrong.

Which part is wrong. I made the following three assertions, all of which I believe to be true and accurate (I don't print bull*hit). Please go ahead and check all of these out at Varee:

1. not at the moment staffed by a full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials. TRUE
2. there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps. TRUE
3. even students being given "study periods" where staffing has not been available at all. TRUE

Please check YOUR FACTS before accusing others of lying.

And, by the way, I think it's a shame you forced me to restate each point so clearly. I think Varee's attempt at being "in-between" is potentially a good idea and could in the future be a positive addition to the options that we have for our children in Chiang Mai. I'm not convinced that they are there at the moment. All I'm doing is sharing that knowledge. Shouldn't we all be informed about the current truth - not just great marketing hype and possibilities for the future?

[naboo]

First to answer alfieconn as to why I don't refer to Varee's "International Annexe" as a full blown international school. The reason is the same as why Varee themselves are careful to never actually refer to the annexe as an international school; because it isn't one.

To call it an international school it would need to be accredited by one of the international organisations that accredit international schools - this it has not done. All of the true international schools in Chiang Mai have this accredirdation and can therefore use the name. At least that's how I understand it!

The annexe is accredited by Cambridge International Examinations for Checkpoint, IGCSE and A Level. 

And so to slinky1876:

1. I would love to know where you got your information from.

It comes from 2 students in the annexe at Varee

2. Its wrong, very wrong.  

Which part is wrong. I made the following three assertions, all of which I believe to be true and accurate (I don't print bull*hit). Please go ahead and check all of these out at Varee:

1. not at the moment staffed by a  full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials. TRUE
2. there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps. TRUE
3. even students being given "study periods" where staffing has  not been available at all. TRUE

Please check YOUR FACTS before accusing others of lying.

Point 1 is correct. Due to issues beyond the school's control, one member of staff left in September/October. This member of staff is being covered by another western teacher. Another teacher, with full US teaching credentials, will be joining the annexe in January to replace the teacher who left.

Point 2 is incorrect. No Thai teachers are stepping in for western teachers. Thai teachers teach Thai language (at native speaker level as well as beginner and intermediate level) and one and a half hours of Thai culture a week. This complies with the MoE requirements.

Point 3 is incorrect. The students study with a teacher for the full compliment of forty 50 minute periods a week. There are no study periods.

[slinky1876]

First to answer alfieconn as to why I don't refer to Varee's "International Annexe" as a full blown international school. The reason is the same as why Varee themselves are careful to never actually refer to the annexe as an international school; because it isn't one.

To call it an international school it would need to be accredited by one of the international organisations that accredit international schools - this it has not done. All of the true international schools in Chiang Mai have this accredirdation and can therefore use the name. At least that's how I understand it!

The annexe is accredited by Cambridge International Examinations for Checkpoint, IGCSE and A Level.

And so to slinky1876:

1. I would love to know where you got your information from.

It comes from 2 students in the annexe at Varee

2. Its wrong, very wrong.

Which part is wrong. I made the following three assertions, all of which I believe to be true and accurate (I don't print bull*hit). Please go ahead and check all of these out at Varee:

1. not at the moment staffed by a full compliment of teachers with proper teaching credentials. TRUE
2. there are currently shortages of western teachers in some areas with Thai teachers stepping in and attempting to teach in English to plug the gaps. TRUE
3. even students being given "study periods" where staffing has not been available at all. TRUE

Please check YOUR FACTS before accusing others of lying.

Point 1 is correct. Due to issues beyond the school's control, one member of staff left in September/October. This member of staff is being covered by another western teacher. Another teacher, with full US teaching credentials, will be joining the annexe in January to replace the teacher who left.

Point 2 is incorrect. No Thai teachers are stepping in for western teachers. Thai teachers teach Thai language (at native speaker level as well as beginner and intermediate level) and one and a half hours of Thai culture a week. This complies with the MoE requirements.

Point 3 is incorrect. The students study with a teacher for the full compliment of forty 50 minute periods a week. There are no study periods.

Spot on.

Gossip is gossip.

Truth is fact.

CMgossip this is what happens when you rely on high school kids for your main source of information. How many kids these days really tell the truth when it comes to school. I don't want to sound harsh, because am not intending to be, its just your information was wrong and it's been proven to be wrong, so no hard feelings in that respect.

[guyofthetower]

Point 1 is correct. Due to issues beyond the school's control, one member of staff left in September/October. This member of staff is being covered by another western teacher. Another teacher, with full US teaching credentials, will be joining the annexe in January to replace the teacher who left.

Point 2 is incorrect. No Thai teachers are stepping in for western teachers. Thai teachers teach Thai language (at native speaker level as well as beginner and intermediate level) and one and a half hours of Thai culture a week. This complies with the MoE requirements.

Point 3 is incorrect. The students study with a teacher for the full compliment of forty 50 minute periods a week. There are no study periods.

Goodness, CMGossip, what an axe you have to grind!

So, they are replacing one teacher, and have a stand in who doesn't have all the paperwork, but who has been carefully selected we would hope. So no big deal there? Actually, it does seem rather strange, and may raise questions about overall management; as I understand it there are a number of teachers in the EP and ESL programmes at Varee with Masters degrees in Education and/or QTS (qualified teacher status) in their own country. Surely they could be covering this position??

[haybilly]

OK, just to add---Varee School is far from perfect, my child is in the EP program, but after quite extensive research it fits my budget and does a reasonable job; who wouldn't love to be able to afford to send their children to an International School, but unfortunately, I cannot.

I also believe that, with regard to any issues a parent might have, raising them with the school, either Khun Dannee or if, as in my case, the child is in EP, then talk with Mr. Daniel Maxwell--a very nice, easy-to-talk-to guy--this usually gets the issue sorted out; although I do second the comment about the delay in receiving School Information letters in English--they often arrive a day or so after the event, if at all.

Finally, to haircuts--my child has quite long hair, but...............she is a girl--as a poster said, be glad that the OP has a boy--the uniform and dress protocol for girl students is far more 'fussy' than it is for the boys.

[Bung]

I put my boy into Varee 8 months ago and if you think their hair regulations are strict there try putting your boy in a Thai school in the provinces. It has never been as long as it is now!

Schoolboys shouldn't have long hair.

[whatsupdoc]

I put my boy into Varee 8 months ago and if you think their hair regulations are strict there try putting your boy in a Thai school in the provinces. It has never been as long as it is now!

Schoolboys shouldn't have long hair.

As clearly stated in the OP: His hair is short by any standard (unless you happen to live in a temple or military boot camp).

Not that it matters much to me anymore, my son will go to NIS next year. No rules about hair, no school uniform either.

In what way does it harm a boy's education if his hair is long? Then they must have a pretty bad education where I come from (Western Europe, not UK), with no rules about hair length at all.

It's the content of the education that counts, not the appearances. I'd rather have my son being taught to think for himself than being taught to follow rules whether they make sense or not.

[uptheos]

Finally, to haircuts--my child has quite long hair, but...............she is a girl--as a poster said, be glad that the OP has a boy--the uniform and dress protocol for girl students is far more 'fussy' than it is for the boys.

...........which seems to change dramatically when they enter university!

[bangkokcitylimits]

Yes, some schools still maintain the 'short, shorter, shortest' in hair cuts. I think that it is a good idea to have some standards for dress and hair, but in your case, my sense is that you will need to outlive the Hair Person

Perhaps a better idea would be 'stardards for schools' and 'standards for teachers', after all what they produce is not very impressing right.

University students wearing Hello Kitty hairclips and can't even count from 1 to 10 in English.

Better forget about the hair and the uniforms issues and focus on the things that are really important...

Edited December 15, 2010 by bangkokcitylimits

[uptheos]

Yes, some schools still maintain the 'short, shorter, shortest' in hair cuts. I think that it is a good idea to have some standards for dress and hair, but in your case, my sense is that you will need to outlive the Hair Person

Perhaps a better idea would be 'stardards for schools' and 'standards for teachers', after all what they produce is not very impressing right.

University students wearing Hello Kitty hairclips and can't even count from 1 to 10 in English.

Better forget about the hair and the uniforms issues and focus on the things that are really important...

But these things ARE important here.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Yes, some schools still maintain the 'short, shorter, shortest' in hair cuts. I think that it is a good idea to have some standards for dress and hair, but in your case, my sense is that you will need to outlive the Hair Person

Perhaps a better idea would be 'stardards for schools' and 'standards for teachers', after all what they produce is not very impressing right.

University students wearing Hello Kitty hairclips and can't even count from 1 to 10 in English.

Better forget about the hair and the uniforms issues and focus on the things that are really important...

But these things ARE important here.

Yeah, and the only well developed and always up-to-date system is the visa rules for foreigners, but still the same potholes in the road as 12 years ago.

Very clear what get's priority here

[jaideeguy]

If Thai schools stressed real education and self expression and curosity as much as they impose silly apperance, rules and military dicipline, then this country could produce some real creative thinkers.....but instead they produce 'well groomed robot idiots'.......IMHO

[bangkokcitylimits]

If Thai schools stressed real education and self expression and curosity as much as they impose silly apperance, rules and military dicipline, then this country could produce some real creative thinkers.....but instead they produce 'well groomed robot idiots'.......IMHO

Very, very true nothing to add.

[uptheos]

If Thai schools stressed real education and self expression and curosity as much as they impose silly apperance, rules and military dicipline, then this country could produce some real creative thinkers.....but instead they produce 'well groomed robot idiots'.......IMHO

I agree with what you are saying, but Thai schools are not allowed to give student's freedom of expression and curiosity.......more so, they are absolutely forbidden to allow critical thinking in the classroom. If the state forbids this and continues to hand out harsh punishment to those who 'question the rules' then how can the schools at local level do / teach / allow otherwise?

The teachers are just as frightened of breaking these antiquated laws as anyone else.

[lannarebirth]

If it were a fashion school I think your focus on hair length might be understandable. Since it is not, you may want to focus more on the academics and also, to a lesser extent, on the social environment.

[CMgossip]

First to answer alfieconn as to why I don't refer to Varee's "International Annexe" as a full blown international school. The reason is the same as why Varee themselves are careful to never actually refer to the annexe as an international school; because it isn't one.

To call it an international school it would need to be accredited by one of the international organisations that accredit international schools - this it has not done. All of the true international schools in Chiang Mai have this accredirdation and can therefore use the name. At least that's how I understand it!

The annexe is accredited by Cambridge International Examinations for Checkpoint, IGCSE and A Level.

Again, some very careful choices of words by representatives of Varee's (excellent) marketing machine... any time Varee is discussed on TV the marketing machine closes in!

As far as I understand it Cambridge International Examinations DO NOT provide international school accreditation, all that they do is allow places to become official Examination Centres. This offers no guarantee at all as to the quality of the COURSES on offer, it just indicates that they meet the requirements to carry out the actual examinations, on the set dates, under the strict conditions set out by that examination board (Cambridge in this case). THIS IS NOT ACCREDITATION, hence the use of the term "annexe' rather than "international school". Previously the British Council in Chiang Mai was a Cambridge International Examinations centre. Does that make them an international school?

All of the actual international school's in Chiang Mai (Prem, CMIS, Lanna, Grace, NIS, CDSC) are, I believe, accredited by organisations that provide full international school accredidation (from the school websites it seems that they are all accredited either by WASC or SIS). Accreditation is something that international schools jump through massive hoops to obtain, and retain, with frequent inspections. It really does offer some guarantee of quality, and looks at all aspects of school life under a microscope, on a regular and ongoing basis..

Oh, and I don't believe that the other 3 points I made have been proven to be incorrect. I still firmly stand by what I said. I have just been outmanoeuvred by a marketing machine that simply states the opposite of what I said. Does that make it the truth?

This could go on forever so I am going to leave this thread alone after this post. I think everyone interested in the truth should visit schools, talk to parents and students and form their own opinions. My kids are grown up already so what do I care?

I really don't want to bash any individual school, just share the truth. Sorry Varee, but I feel the need to correct inaccuracies, and share what I know!

[Chiangmai Cheers]

I find it quite incredible that people like CMGossip and AlfieConn come onto the forum to get their kicks out of "school bashing".

My daughter is in the English Programme and I am very happy at the progress she is making. My daughter-in-law, who is a school teacher back in Europe could not believe how high the standard at Varee is. She reckoned the standard of the class would be at least as high, if not higher than in Europe.

My daughter was at another bi-lingual school in Chiangmai previously and i would have to say that Varee is a far better school than her previous one, Sarasas.

Both of her homeroom Teachers, Khru Mai, and Teacher Mike are very well qualified and are exceptionally good teachers. It is a huge advantage that Khru Mai speaks English, pretty fluently. My daughter really enjoys her time at school. We never have any problems getting her up in the morning!

As I have already said, I am extremely happy with my daughter's development. Sending them to an international school does not guarantee them a good and successful education. It does not even guarantee them properly qualified teachers. My own experience of International schools is that they are privately owned money making institutions, and that comes from helping out in a couple of them, in the past.

Varee School tries to instill some discipline in the children, as well as giving them a good rounded education and that is rather unusual in Thailand. Discipline is not beaten into the children, but is taught in a loving and encouraging manner.

Last week we went to Doi Inthanon. It was covered in cloud and quite damp. My daughter explained to me, about how clouds were formed and where the rain came from. As a retired Meteorologist, I can only say that she was spot on. How many 7 year olds could explain that at home?

Cambridge Checkpoint tests are for use at the end of Cambridge Secondary 1. They are marked by CIE and provide schools with an external international benchmark for student performance. Cambridge Checkpoint enables feedback to be provided on a student's strengths and weaknesses in key curriculum areas. Feedback of this kind is an invaluable source of information. Schools and colleges will be able to make strategic decisions, drawing upon a pool of information and specialist reporting tools built into Cambridge Checkpoint. Learners at international schools will have a transferable indication of their academic progress.

It's a pity that people have to come onto the forum to air their dislikes. A bit of time spent helping their children's development might be a better idea.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Chiangmai Cheers

[alfieconn]

I find it quite incredible that people like CMGossip and AlfieConn come onto the forum to get their kicks out of "school bashing".

Can you show me my comments on school bashing Varee .

[JimShortz]

The annexe is accredited by Cambridge International Examinations for Checkpoint, IGCSE and A Level.

Just to blow the trumpet of the school I teach at, a little bit... if that's allowed, since Cambridge seems to be a topic of discussion within this "hair" thread?

Lanna International school is the only other school in Chiang Mai that is registered as a Cambridge International Examinations Centre; in this case utilising the Cambridge International Primary Programme, the Cambridge Lower Secondary Programme, IGCSEs (15 different subjects) and A Levels (14 different subjects - a massive range for a school of Lanna's size).

This year Lanna students were recognised by Cambridge for achieving Top in Thailand (literally the highest single mark in Thailand) in both IGCSE Combined Science and IGCSE Physical Education. The school were very pleased to say the least.

Lanna publishes information about the school's results on their website (not for individual students). Take a look if you are interested.

My apologies for the blatant plug, but I'm pretty proud of how Lanna is doing these days. If everyone else is "just sharing what they know" I thought I might have a go! I can't see any forum rule that I'm breaking, but please remove it if I am.

[Chiangmai Cheers]

I find it quite incredible that people like CMGossip and AlfieConn come onto the forum to get their kicks out of "school bashing".

Can you show me my comments on school bashing Varee .

Apologies Alfie, I put your name in by mistake

[mca]

Purely out of interest how much per term is the International Annexe in Varee?

[koosdeboer]

Purely out of interest how much per term is the International Annexe in Varee?

Fees and conditions on this link

http://international.varee.ac.th/p5.php

My daughter studies at Varee international and we are happy.

[HenMeeMai]

That link doesn't work. Since we can't give direct links. Here is the Varee Annexe's link again (copy it into the address bar of your browser and then replace the word "DOT" with a "."):

internationalDOTvaree.ac.th/p5.php

Here's the fee pages of the international schools (for comparison):

Grace International School (GIS) -

Appears to not publish on their website

Lanna International School (LIST) -

wwwDOTlannaist.ac.th/html/fees.htm

Chiang Mai International School (CMIS) -

wwwDOTcmis.ac.th/admission (then click on the .pdf link at the bottom of the page to download fees)

Nakorn Payap international School (NIS) -

wwwDOTnis.ac.th/nis_en/viewpage.php?page_id=6

Prem Tinsulanonda International School (PTIS) -

wwwDOTthreegeneration.org/content/admissions.html

(then click on the "Tuition Fees" link at the bottom of the page to download fees)

American Pacific International School (APIS) -

Appears to not publish on their website

I'd be interested to know how "inclusive" these fees are.

Any parents at any of these schools who can give a bit of insight?

Why do the prices vary so much?