Briton Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station

[TommyDee]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.?

We probably won't believe much from someone who joined 30 minutes ago.

nice try

I have been a member here for over 4 years

your record says otherwise

typing really isnt my forte, but i thought I clarified that.. member 4 years, usually only a lurker, forgotten passowrd, have changed email since joining, cant get password reminder, so rejoined.

trust that meets with approval

tom

[Buchholz]

I have been a member here for over 4 years

your record says otherwise

typing really isnt my forte, but i thought I clarified that.. member 4 years, usually only a lurker, forgotten passowrd, have changed email since joining, cant get password reminder, so rejoined.

uhmm... if you say so.

[wayne03]

I have been a member here for over 4 years

your record says otherwise

typing really isnt my forte, but i thought I clarified that.. member 4 years, usually only a lurker, forgotten passowrd, have changed email since joining, cant get password reminder, so rejoined.

uhmm... if you say so.

[GentlemanJim]

Well. after a long long time of simply surfing around the boards on this site, I am compelled to register and post.

I am staggered by the number of venomous posts on here calling the British embassy staff and volunteer workers all the names under the Sun, when it is quite clear that the vast majority of posters on here have absolutely no clue about what goes on and no idea at all of the people they are trashing who work for the British Embassy.

I am not quite sure I know where to start.

I am not an Embassy official, but have done some work with them as I wished to be involved with prison visits, and where better to start than with the Consular staff who at the time offered me 'free training and advice'.

I have never met such a group of diligent, hard working individuals since I arrived in Thailand. Often some of them continue to work through till 7pm every evening (overtime is not paid). They are professional, caring and knowledgeable , and luckily have Rhinoceros skin. In Thailand, they provide a service that far exceeds the legal requirement, and they do it because they care greatly. Sure like anybody in any job, they can cock up, but it is a rare event. Often, (in fact almost always), they give money out of their own pocket when they first visit a prisoner, cash and they buy clothes, books, food, soap etc etc. Now you may consider 'so what', but there are at least 100 Brit prisoners in Bangkok alone, do you have any idea how much that costs.

The embassy is required to visit anybody held in custody once every 8 weeks until they are committed to prison by a court, after that your rights to consular visits are minimal. In reality the Consular staff visit much more regularly than that and are in the Immigration detention centers and prisons every day of the week.

The consular staff are not 'diplomats'.

They do not go to "Lunches, Dinners and Parties" every day, nor do any of them say "Tally Ho Old Chap".

A few members are career FO workers, who are posted here along with their expertise from the UK. Most are guys like you, who moved out here for a better life, applied for a job and got it, and are paid Thailand salaries.

They are confronted on a day to day basis with the threat of physical and constant verbal abuse, as others seem to wish to make their own misfortunes and wrongdoings the fault of Consular staff.

Imagine being a cashier in Tesco's or working behind a local bar and someone comes up to you and says "oy you, you little f***ing C**t, give me some f***ing money and some food and beer now you peice of sh*te". My question is, would you continue to serve them? The chances are...no! Yet I have sat and heard exactly those words shouted out at two consular representatives, one of whom was a young Thai lady, and after their eyes went down and they took a breath, they continued to offer to help the man. They even gave him 500 baht, to tide him over until they had filled out all the paperwork to get him 1000 baht a month from the charity 'Prisoners Abroad".

The FO cannot pay for your repatriation. Do you have any idea how many people that would be around the world each year???? Go back to the Tesco's analogy. You queue up with a full shopping trolley, get to the checkout and when it comes to payment you say, "sorry I have forgotten my wallet, can I take my shopping home and I will come and pay you tomorrow". If in some moment of lunacy the cashier says yes, then word spreads like wildfire and soon, every person in all 36 checkout queues are saying and demanding the same thing.

They always call your next of kin and relatives, but on many occasions the prisoner declines the offer. They cannot contact anyone without your consent, and when funds arrive they will even buy your tickets for you. There are people today in lengthy terms in the Immigration Detention Center, who have money and tickets arranged to go home by the Embassy, but choose not to do so because..... they know that there are arrest warrants waiting for them when they arrive back in the UK. it is laughable.

People going into the Consular office:-

'I have lost my credit card, I want a new visa card now please"

I have run out of money, cause when I came on holiday I never thought it would be this much. Can I have a loan".

I have lost my air ticket home and I fly tomorrow, and if you don't get me a new one I will break your legs"

"I have found out my wife is sha**ing someone else at home, can you dial 999 in England and have the ba**ard arrested"

"can you tell me where to buy some vinegar for my chips, they don't have vinegar for chips here do they"

I kid you not, you could write a best selling comedy book on what the Consular Office have to put up with.

They have had outsourcing forced upon them, it is not the 'fault' of the Embassy here, and as an extra kick in the slats, that out sourcing means they lose 6 job placements here, so those left are working all the hours God sends, to support a bunch of miserable gits as represented by many on this very thread. I never used to believe the stories the Consular staff told me until I heard them, and now I see the attitudes of the great british public replicated here on this very forum.

The British passport is a means of identification for those that wish to travel. it is not an insurance policy for you for when you <deleted> up. If you are mental and you are returned to the UK, then you get the money and come straight back to Thailand, what do you think can be done for you?

Many detainees 'act' mad as it scares the thai prisoners in the cell and they leave you alone.

I visited one guy who clearly had mental issues and the embassy paid for a full analysis by a BRITISH psychiatrist . They pay for medical tests and examinations. I have also been to see someone whom the Thai authorities had not notified anybody of for a week. This guy had 400K baht in the bank, and his ATM card in prison. I could not go and get the money out for him (15 mins) because in the past the same had been done and then the newly released guy says "he took 30K out to release me, but has taken an extra 10K out for himself as well", I am suing the British Government". The actions of some very bad people (and some of the comments on here display some with similar tendencies) ruin every service for everybody else. This guy spent an extra week in jail because of some a**hole drunk in the past.

FACT: As a Brit, your consular services will visit and do as much for you as they can, even when you call them the worst possible names when you meet them.

FACT: As some have suggested to the contrary on here the US Embassy staff WILL NOT visit, neither will they visit you every 8 weeks as a minimum. You are on your own. Big boys rules.

I hope that the more vorciferous of those amongst the posters here, one day find themselves in the slammer, and find that you actually are humbled by the help that you get from the consular staff, when everyone else in the world doesn't care if you die.

I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this case, but it may also be that the guy was cuffed to the bars because he was trying to rape, beat or bite the other 20 guys in the cell, and there are no facilities to segregate him.

it is clear from reading this forum that many of you come on here just for a fight, but it is also evidently clear that you know nothing of what goes on.

Lastly, I do not know Howard, but what I will say is this. The guy does not deserve the public (his name is used in the first person, whilst you all hide behind your handles) slagging he is getting, and as a warning to you all, Internet laws are very very strict when it comes to defamation these days, and there are people on here who I am quite sure are guilty of defamation. Should Mr Miller decide to pursue any class action, upon receipt of a court order, this site must provide full details of you, your ISP details etc etc, and they WILL do it. Your ISP will provide your home address. So unless you operate out of a multitude of internet cafes, you really should not be so vicious with your on line attacks.

I would like to finish by wishing the guy in the case all the best, but know that when he is repatriated, he will be back within weeks, and lastly a very great thanks to the Consular Staff for the excellent work they put in on behalf of the most thankless group of people anybody has worked for.

I can comment, I don't do the work anymore, because i got pi**ed off with trying to help a bunch of selfless moronic individuals, most of whom want to blame everyone else for their self inflicted misfortunes, and want everyone else but themselves to take responsibility.

[wayne03]

After reading this horror story instead of everyone looking for a Scapegoat why don't we have some kind of fund started by TV members plus local Brit buisnessmen and the Expat club.

How long would it take to organise as David Cameroon tells us about the Big Society and helping each over so why not start this in Pattaya, and there are many decent retired Brits who could organise this on a volentary basis for distressed Brits.This should never happen again as it is a very sad and horrific story.

Maybe Howard and his friends in the Tourist Police could do a collection on a regular basis while on patrol in Walking street.

[BusyBee123]

Well. after a long long time of simply surfing around the boards on this site, I am compelled to register and post.

I am staggered by the number of venomous posts on here calling the British embassy staff and volunteer workers all the names under the Sun, when it is quite clear that the vast majority of posters on here have absolutely no clue about what goes on and no idea at all of the people they are trashing who work for the British Embassy.

I am not quite sure I know where to start.

I am not an Embassy official, but have done some work with them as I wished to be involved with prison visits, and where better to start than with the Consular staff who at the time offered me 'free training and advice'.

I have never met such a group of diligent, hard working individuals since I arrived in Thailand. Often some of them continue to work through till 7pm every evening (overtime is not paid). They are professional, caring and knowledgeable , and luckily have Rhinoceros skin. In Thailand, they provide a service that far exceeds the legal requirement, and they do it because they care greatly. Sure like anybody in any job, they can cock up, but it is a rare event. Often, (in fact almost always), they give money out of their own pocket when they first visit a prisoner, cash and they buy clothes, books, food, soap etc etc. Now you may consider 'so what', but there are at least 100 Brit prisoners in Bangkok alone, do you have any idea how much that costs.

The embassy is required to visit anybody held in custody once every 8 weeks until they are committed to prison by a court, after that your rights to consular visits are minimal. In reality the Consular staff visit much more regularly than that and are in the Immigration detention centers and prisons every day of the week.

The consular staff are not 'diplomats'.

They do not go to "Lunches, Dinners and Parties" every day, nor do any of them say "Tally Ho Old Chap".

A few members are career FO workers, who are posted here along with their expertise from the UK. Most are guys like you, who moved out here for a better life, applied for a job and got it, and are paid Thailand salaries.

They are confronted on a day to day basis with the threat of physical and constant verbal abuse, as others seem to wish to make their own misfortunes and wrongdoings the fault of Consular staff.

Imagine being a cashier in Tesco's or working behind a local bar and someone comes up to you and says "oy you, you little f***ing C**t, give me some f***ing money and some food and beer now you peice of sh*te". My question is, would you continue to serve them? The chances are...no! Yet I have sat and heard exactly those words shouted out at two consular representatives, one of whom was a young Thai lady, and after their eyes went down and they took a breath, they continued to offer to help the man. They even gave him 500 baht, to tide him over until they had filled out all the paperwork to get him 1000 baht a month from the charity 'Prisoners Abroad".

The FO cannot pay for your repatriation. Do you have any idea how many people that would be around the world each year???? Go back to the Tesco's analogy. You queue up with a full shopping trolley, get to the checkout and when it comes to payment you say, "sorry I have forgotten my wallet, can I take my shopping home and I will come and pay you tomorrow". If in some moment of lunacy the cashier says yes, then word spreads like wildfire and soon, every person in all 36 checkout queues are saying and demanding the same thing.

They always call your next of kin and relatives, but on many occasions the prisoner declines the offer. They cannot contact anyone without your consent, and when funds arrive they will even buy your tickets for you. There are people today in lengthy terms in the Immigration Detention Center, who have money and tickets arranged to go home by the Embassy, but choose not to do so because..... they know that there are arrest warrants waiting for them when they arrive back in the UK. it is laughable.

People going into the Consular office:-

'I have lost my credit card, I want a new visa card now please"

I have run out of money, cause when I came on holiday I never thought it would be this much. Can I have a loan".

I have lost my air ticket home and I fly tomorrow, and if you don't get me a new one I will break your legs"

"I have found out my wife is sha**ing someone else at home, can you dial 999 in England and have the ba**ard arrested"

"can you tell me where to buy some vinegar for my chips, they don't have vinegar for chips here do they"

I kid you not, you could write a best selling comedy book on what the Consular Office have to put up with.

They have had outsourcing forced upon them, it is not the 'fault' of the Embassy here, and as an extra kick in the slats, that out sourcing means they lose 6 job placements here, so those left are working all the hours God sends, to support a bunch of miserable gits as represented by many on this very thread. I never used to believe the stories the Consular staff told me until I heard them, and now I see the attitudes of the great british public replicated here on this very forum.

The British passport is a means of identification for those that wish to travel. it is not an insurance policy for you for when you <deleted> up. If you are mental and you are returned to the UK, then you get the money and come straight back to Thailand, what do you think can be done for you?

Many detainees 'act' mad as it scares the thai prisoners in the cell and they leave you alone.

I visited one guy who clearly had mental issues and the embassy paid for a full analysis by a BRITISH psychiatrist . They pay for medical tests and examinations. I have also been to see someone whom the Thai authorities had not notified anybody of for a week. This guy had 400K baht in the bank, and his ATM card in prison. I could not go and get the money out for him (15 mins) because in the past the same had been done and then the newly released guy says "he took 30K out to release me, but has taken an extra 10K out for himself as well", I am suing the British Government". The actions of some very bad people (and some of the comments on here display some with similar tendencies) ruin every service for everybody else. This guy spent an extra week in jail because of some a**hole drunk in the past.

FACT: As a Brit, your consular services will visit and do as much for you as they can, even when you call them the worst possible names when you meet them.

FACT: As some have suggested to the contrary on here the US Embassy staff WILL NOT visit, neither will they visit you every 8 weeks as a minimum. You are on your own. Big boys rules.

I hope that the more vorciferous of those amongst the posters here, one day find themselves in the slammer, and find that you actually are humbled by the help that you get from the consular staff, when everyone else in the world doesn't care if you die.

I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this case, but it may also be that the guy was cuffed to the bars because he was trying to rape, beat or bite the other 20 guys in the cell, and there are no facilities to segregate him.

it is clear from reading this forum that many of you come on here just for a fight, but it is also evidently clear that you know nothing of what goes on.

Lastly, I do not know Howard, but what I will say is this. The guy does not deserve the public (his name is used in the first person, whilst you all hide behind your handles) slagging he is getting, and as a warning to you all, Internet laws are very very strict when it comes to defamation these days, and there are people on here who I am quite sure are guilty of defamation. Should Mr Miller decide to pursue any class action, upon receipt of a court order, this site must provide full details of you, your ISP details etc etc, and they WILL do it. Your ISP will provide your home address. So unless you operate out of a multitude of internet cafes, you really should not be so vicious with your on line attacks.

I would like to finish by wishing the guy in the case all the best, but know that when he is repatriated, he will be back within weeks, and lastly a very great thanks to the Consular Staff for the excellent work they put in on behalf of the most thankless group of people anybody has worked for.

I can comment, I don't do the work anymore, because i got pi**ed off with trying to help a bunch of selfless moronic individuals, most of whom want to blame everyone else for their self inflicted misfortunes, and want everyone else but themselves to take responsibility.

Well said.

[gorillagrower]

(Dual Post)

Mr Miller has been in the deep end for his failure to at the very least issue a memo for the never ending daylight robbery along Pattaya beach, in his defense he clearly felt the growing anger and has since had an article published by the paper he is associated with. But this case really has highlighted not only a lack of human dignity but mainly misrepresenting the compassion of the British people, Foreign Office rules may dictate this or that, but the Basic’s at the very least to have had the man watered and fed at a cost of 50-100b a day were neglected. What would be interesting to know is what happened to Mr Richard Ian Hewitt between the 13th and 23rd, as seemingly not arrested on 13th, did it really take ten days for them to release he was an overstay? I have long had reservations about Mr Miller and many who work/volunteer under the banner of the tourist police, stories have surfaced about certain Individuals working alongside scammers making so called ‘deals’ for foreign nationals, more worrying is the very real info of their blatant work as informers, I have no proof of any involvement of Mr Miller but let’s just say he rubbed shoulders with some very corrupt volunteers and officials.

Thanks to that bizarre and undiplomatic response you have but your head on the block to be the Embassy scapegoat.

@SecretTom, I to find myself on the verge of dissecting the buffet of lies and 'red tape' you have laid out for us,but after reading your mock of Tracy " So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day" frankly I'm thinking better of it, why waste my time with somebody so clearly devoid of human connection and compassion you appear to be a prime example of social disintegration. PS I would steer well clear of Tracey Cosgrove after that "white horse" comment for your own safety.

[newtronbom]

I wasn't going to reply to this post, but I think I have to add my 10 cents worth. I am in no way, going to try and justify or excuse, the treatment and condition of this very unfortunate man. Regardless of whether he has a history of mental illness or not, no human being in this day and age, should be treated like this. It is a sad fact though, that despite the billions of dollars spent "supposedly to help" people like this around the world, they exist in every country and many are even worse off than this man. It is too easy to lay blame - even without having all or any of the facts. I have lived here well over 10 years now and don't intend to leave. What I have seen here for myself regarding severe mental illness, is a tradition of the family taking care of these unfortunates at home where possible. Just like another very good tradition in Thai culture, where families take care of their "old people" at home - unlike us - as we generally tend to send them to a hospice etc. Those families who have members too sick to stay at home, if they can afford it, either get regular "private hospital" treatment if possible, or in hopeless cases, have them committed as a last resort. For those who can't afford it, there are the gvmnt hospitals with limited beds and overworked doctors, or the many charities(which I know nothing about) that I am told of, who are overstretched as well. In my experience therefor, it is unfair to complain about Thai people because of this case. Having read all the comments about the British embassy, mostly derogatory, their performance or lack of it, I felt I should also share what I personally know and have experienced, about their work with prisoners and the mandate they must work within, here in Thailand. To begin with, their budget for each department, is set by those in the UK. They have strict guidelines on how and where they spend it. They have at present, over a 100 people in prison here in Thailand to take care of and administer to. These represent only 1% of the more than 100 thousand Brits who visit here each year. It's obvious where the bulk of the funds will go. That's one of the reasons, why the British embassy cultivates a group of dedicated Brit ladies that live here in BKK, who have the time and the money, to visit prisons here every week. I also make some prison visits and have met some of them. The guys I visit, are very grateful to these ladies, who in most cases, are the only visits they get - apart from the bi-monthly embassy visit. I saw too, how hard the embassy worked to get one of the guys I visited, sent home early. Thanks to them, he was released after one third served. Its not automatic. Up until China took over Hong Kong, the British consul in Taiwan were giving British passports and support to HK Chinese prisoners and still give them support today. There are good people at the British embassy and they do the best that they can, within what they are allowed to do. I don't blame them for this situation in Pattaya. I also don't blame Thai people. The many I have talked to about this terrible incident, are just as horrified as I am about it. I am glad he is in hospital now thanks to that good ladies help and all this publicity. I just hope this never happens again.

[GentlemanJim]

(Dual Post)

Mr Miller has been in the deep end for his failure to at the very least issue a memo for the never ending daylight robbery along Pattaya beach, in his defense he clearly felt the growing anger and has since had an article published by the paper he is associated with. But this case really has highlighted not only a lack of human dignity but mainly misrepresenting the compassion of the British people, Foreign Office rules may dictate this or that, but the Basic's at the very least to have had the man watered and fed at a cost of 50-100b a day were neglected. What would be interesting to know is what happened to Mr Richard Ian Hewitt between the 13th and 23rd, as seemingly not arrested on 13th, did it really take ten days for them to release he was an overstay? I have long had reservations about Mr Miller and many who work/volunteer under the banner of the tourist police, stories have surfaced about certain Individuals working alongside scammers making so called 'deals' for foreign nationals, more worrying is the very real info of their blatant work as informers, I have no proof of any involvement of Mr Miller but let's just say he rubbed shoulders with some very corrupt volunteers and officials.

Thanks to that bizarre and undiplomatic response you have but your head on the block to be the Embassy scapegoat.

@SecretTom, I to find myself on the verge of dissecting the buffet of lies and 'red tape' you have laid out for us,but after reading your mock of Tracy " So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day" frankly I'm thinking better of it, why waste my time with somebody so clearly devoid of human connection and compassion you appear to be a prime example of social disintegration. PS I would steer well clear of Tracey Cosgrove after that "white horse" comment for your own safety.

Why is it Mr Millers responsibility or job to issue a statement on the 'daylight robbery along Pattaya Beach"?

The prisoner was fed and watered. That is the responsibility of the Thai Government.

100 Baht per day times 100 prisoners plus immigration detainees would be about 400 K baht per month. Again, I reiterate to you specifically that your comments concerning Mr miller are right on the edge and either you or a Mod would be best advised to remove them.

I don't believe for a minute that 'SecretTom' was mocking Ms Cosgrove. She did a very humane thing. I just hope she can come to terms with the situation when this chap returns to Thailand in 4 months and is found chained to the bars of another prison somewhere in this country. Why should SecretTom steer clear of Ms Cosgrove for his own safety? She is clearly a kind and humane individual. A lesson a lot of posters on here would do well to heed.

It is quite amusing that most of you that bay for blood of consular staff here concerning this case, are the same individuals that when someone screws up and ends up in prison are the first to be saying "good, hope he dies and rots in a Thai jail", "Now he will see justice", "Do the crime, do the time", etc etc etc. I like to think of myself as a good person, but to be sure, the UK is well rid of many of the individuals that post on this forum.

[apollo13]

I think Tom is really me posting under another name.

Poor Howard, you really haven't cottoned on have you? Your posting of this silly one liner with it's emoticon on a public forum thread of which the topic has become your suitability and performance as the position of Hon' Consul merely confirms my belief that you are not the right choice.

[andrewdrummond]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

The three months figure comes from Benny and was mentioned in my initial report. However in the same report I clarified that the FCO only knew of his existence from November 23.

[GentlemanJim]

Mr Drummond

As you are around, and I see on line now, I would like to thank you for clarifying that nobody knew of this mans incarceration until the 23rd. Now I would like to ask you to comment on the content of the posts that your article has generated. The utter slagging off of the Consular Staff. Was this your intention?? Are you happy as a journalist with the reaction that your article has generated? Whilst the situation of this man was most dreadful, are you truly aware of what really goes on in the penal system here and how much beyond the control of the dedicated hard working Ladies and Gents at the Embassy it is? Your views on this are, to me at least, both important and appropriate, as regardless of your intent, some very fine people who have completed another year of hard work on behalf of a mostly ignorant, selfless British public in Thailand, have had their professionalism brought in to question, and I for one know for a fact, this is not their fault'.

Care to interview me?

Edited December 9, 2010 by GentlemanJim

[andrewdrummond]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Isnt charity only charity when its done without the seeking of publicity and recognition? after that doesnt it become more of a good deed? I dont really understand the relationship between saving this chap from his distress and calling a local hack with the story. I really dont. but maybe thats just me. I think she was wonderful and as i have said I applaud her actions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

Good on ya Tom

TEll it like it is.

I have replied to a similar letter written by Tom here:.

http://www.andrew-dr...ence-a-comment/

However for the sake of readers of this particular thread I will say the following. Nowhere in two stories and one comment blog have I slagged off Howard Miller. In fact I have only written about him in my comment piece.Someone is therefore very paranoic. I myself find him a personable guy. That is not the point.

At best I have stated that because of his experience as a police volunteer he is unlikely to carry much authority against colleaues of his former bosses and indeed yesterday he was reported to have stood to attention while talking to police there.

Secondly I am a journalist and in this instance was the conduit for this story and the pictures which were taken by Benny Moalfi. I have no particular financial interest but I serve most of the newspapers in the UK. Tom is unaware of the role of freelance journalists. They are in the main journalists who do not want to suffer the constraints of working for particular newspapers. In actual fact most British journalists in Thailand are freelance. Most of the full time foreign correspondents disappeared years ago. Probably 70 per cent of the content of newspapers in the UK come from 'freelance journalists' or agency. But Secret Tom would not know that.

Secondly the woman Tracy who Tom sarcastically refers to as coming in on her white horse has never sought publicity and she asked me not to name her. She allowed me to use her first name only after I told her that her full name in connection with the story was already up on Facebook. Secret Tiom's comment are tacky and ill researched.

The fact is she did in two hours what Howard could not do in two weeks. If Howard actually supports secret-tom's letter then he is a bigger fool than I think he is.

I do not need a lecture on how the FCO works. I have been dealing with them for 35 years. I write positive stories about them when they come to me. The FCO would certainly not put in Secret Tom as a defence witness.

Howard cannot speak for himself. Well he has here already with the similar crass suggestion that this story is just about a journalist making money! I mean what is is that he does with Pattaya One News? Well not obviously revealing the appalling conditions this man underwent. Secret Tom refers to the man as a 'nutter'. He also provides info which I know, and which incidentally the foreign office asked me not to reveal!

So yes. He has done it before. Yes he has been deported before, but he was never in this condition.

So is this also Howard talking. Certainly has the sound of an Essex DJ. Leave the nutter where he is? Why dig a hole for Howard when there is not one there?

Edited December 9, 2010 by andrewdrummond

[GentlemanJim]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Isnt charity only charity when its done without the seeking of publicity and recognition? after that doesnt it become more of a good deed? I dont really understand the relationship between saving this chap from his distress and calling a local hack with the story. I really dont. but maybe thats just me. I think she was wonderful and as i have said I applaud her actions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

Good on ya Tom

TEll it like it is.

I have replied to a similar letter written by Tom here:.http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/12/09/a-conspiracy-of-silence-a-comment/

However for the sake of readers of this particular thread I will say the following. Nowhere in two stories and one comment blog have I slagged off Howard Miller. I myself find him a personable guy. That is not the point.

At best I have stated that because of his experience as a police volunteer he is unlikely to carry much authority against colleaues of his former bosses and indeed yesterday he was reported to have stood to attention while talking to police there.

Secondly I am a journalist and in this instance was the conduit for this story and the pictures which were taken by Benny Moalfi. I have no particular financial interest but I serve most of the newspapers in the UK. Tom is unaware of the role of freelance journalists. They are in the main journalists who do not want to suffer the constraints of working for particular newspapers. In actual fact most British foreign journalists in Thailand are freelance. Most of the full time foreign correspondents disappeared years ago. Probably 70 per cent of the content of newspapers in the UK come from 'freelance journalists'.

Secondly the woman Tracy who Tom sarcastically refers to as coming in on her white horse has never sought publicity and she asked me not to name her. She allowed me to use her first name only after I told her that her full name in connection with the story was already up on Facebook.

The fact is she did in two hours what Howard could not do in two weeks. If Howard actually suppiorts secret-tom's letter then he is a bigger fool than I think he is.

Howard cannot speak for himself. Well he has here already with the similar crass suggestion that this story is just about a journalist making money! I mean what is is that he does with Pattaya One News? Well not obviously revealing the appalling conditions this man underwent. Tom refers to the man as a 'nutter'. He also provides info which I know, and which incidentally the foreign office asked me not to reveal! So is this also Howard talking. Leave the nutter where he is?

Well you haven't answered my post yet, and since you issue this one then it removes every single trace of credibility you could possibly have. I note you say from a previous post that you got the '3 months incarceration' figure from Benny! Benny now turns out to be a photographer. Ok! Well would anybody at all especially a free lancer who may think of themselves as a professional actually go to print without checking the details of a story? It would have taken you 2 mins to phone the prison and find out how long this guy had been behind bars. BUT, you didn't. You seem to be on some sort of personal vendetta thing here. As I said, I don't even know Howard but are you jealous of the newspaper he is with, were you refused a job? I do know a businessman that could sort you out with a job for sure, because he is associated with the Daily Star, and you display just the right qualities for a prime time job. Perhaps I need interview you ... FAIL!

[apollo13]

More fuel for Millers Hon' Consul funeral pyre ......Pattaya One News (Miller's child) is plastered with adverts from a certain 'Lolitas" gentlemans bar...(blowjob bar in Pattaya)......got that snippet from Drummond's best friend,' Dirty Dog' on teak door.....here's another....." <deleted> knows why they've given the job to howard, I wouldn't give the bloke a Blue Peter badge" HarryBaracuda.

[andrewdrummond]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Isnt charity only charity when its done without the seeking of publicity and recognition? after that doesnt it become more of a good deed? I dont really understand the relationship between saving this chap from his distress and calling a local hack with the story. I really dont. but maybe thats just me. I think she was wonderful and as i have said I applaud her actions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

Good on ya Tom

TEll it like it is.

I have replied to a similar letter written by Tom here:.http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/12/09/a-conspiracy-of-silence-a-comment/

However for the sake of readers of this particular thread I will say the following. Nowhere in two stories and one comment blog have I slagged off Howard Miller. I myself find him a personable guy. That is not the point.

At best I have stated that because of his experience as a police volunteer he is unlikely to carry much authority against colleaues of his former bosses and indeed yesterday he was reported to have stood to attention while talking to police there.

Secondly I am a journalist and in this instance was the conduit for this story and the pictures which were taken by Benny Moalfi. I have no particular financial interest but I serve most of the newspapers in the UK. Tom is unaware of the role of freelance journalists. They are in the main journalists who do not want to suffer the constraints of working for particular newspapers. In actual fact most British foreign journalists in Thailand are freelance. Most of the full time foreign correspondents disappeared years ago. Probably 70 per cent of the content of newspapers in the UK come from 'freelance journalists'.

Secondly the woman Tracy who Tom sarcastically refers to as coming in on her white horse has never sought publicity and she asked me not to name her. She allowed me to use her first name only after I told her that her full name in connection with the story was already up on Facebook.

The fact is she did in two hours what Howard could not do in two weeks. If Howard actually suppiorts secret-tom's letter then he is a bigger fool than I think he is.

Howard cannot speak for himself. Well he has here already with the similar crass suggestion that this story is just about a journalist making money! I mean what is is that he does with Pattaya One News? Well not obviously revealing the appalling conditions this man underwent. Tom refers to the man as a 'nutter'. He also provides info which I know, and which incidentally the foreign office asked me not to reveal! So is this also Howard talking. Leave the nutter where he is?

Well you haven't answered my post yet, and since you issue this one then it removes every single trace of credibility you could possibly have. I note you say from a previous post that you got the '3 months incarceration' figure from Benny! Benny now turns out to be a photographer. Ok! Well would anybody at all especially a free lancer who may think of themselves as a professional actually go to print without checking the details of a story? It would have taken you 2 mins to phone the prison and find out how long this guy had been behind bars. BUT, you didn't. You seem to be on some sort of personal vendetta thing here. As I said, I don't even know Howard but are you jealous of the newspaper he is with, were you refused a job? I do know a businessman that could sort you out with a job for sure, because he is associated with the Daily Star, and you display just the right qualities for a prime time job. Perhaps I need interview you ... FAIL!

The answer to your question is that in all reports we stated that the FCO had known about the man being in Pattaya police station since November 23 2010. Prisoners in the station, Benny Moalfi, said, had claimed he had been there three months. My clarification was unequivocal. No I will not be joining Pattaya One in the near or distant future. What would I get to write? There is no vendetta. Read what I have written. Nothing bad about Howard Miller at all.

[andrewdrummond]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Isnt charity only charity when its done without the seeking of publicity and recognition? after that doesnt it become more of a good deed? I dont really understand the relationship between saving this chap from his distress and calling a local hack with the story. I really dont. but maybe thats just me. I think she was wonderful and as i have said I applaud her actions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

Good on ya Tom

TEll it like it is.

I have replied to a similar letter written by Tom here:.http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/12/09/a-conspiracy-of-silence-a-comment/

However for the sake of readers of this particular thread I will say the following. Nowhere in two stories and one comment blog have I slagged off Howard Miller. I myself find him a personable guy. That is not the point.

At best I have stated that because of his experience as a police volunteer he is unlikely to carry much authority against colleaues of his former bosses and indeed yesterday he was reported to have stood to attention while talking to police there.

Secondly I am a journalist and in this instance was the conduit for this story and the pictures which were taken by Benny Moalfi. I have no particular financial interest but I serve most of the newspapers in the UK. Tom is unaware of the role of freelance journalists. They are in the main journalists who do not want to suffer the constraints of working for particular newspapers. In actual fact most British foreign journalists in Thailand are freelance. Most of the full time foreign correspondents disappeared years ago. Probably 70 per cent of the content of newspapers in the UK come from 'freelance journalists'.

Secondly the woman Tracy who Tom sarcastically refers to as coming in on her white horse has never sought publicity and she asked me not to name her. She allowed me to use her first name only after I told her that her full name in connection with the story was already up on Facebook.

The fact is she did in two hours what Howard could not do in two weeks. If Howard actually suppiorts secret-tom's letter then he is a bigger fool than I think he is.

Howard cannot speak for himself. Well he has here already with the similar crass suggestion that this story is just about a journalist making money! I mean what is is that he does with Pattaya One News? Well not obviously revealing the appalling conditions this man underwent. Tom refers to the man as a 'nutter'. He also provides info which I know, and which incidentally the foreign office asked me not to reveal! So is this also Howard talking. Leave the nutter where he is?

Well you haven't answered my post yet, and since you issue this one then it removes every single trace of credibility you could possibly have. I note you say from a previous post that you got the '3 months incarceration' figure from Benny! Benny now turns out to be a photographer. Ok! Well would anybody at all especially a free lancer who may think of themselves as a professional actually go to print without checking the details of a story? It would have taken you 2 mins to phone the prison and find out how long this guy had been behind bars. BUT, you didn't. You seem to be on some sort of personal vendetta thing here. As I said, I don't even know Howard but are you jealous of the newspaper he is with, were you refused a job? I do know a businessman that could sort you out with a job for sure, because he is associated with the Daily Star, and you display just the right qualities for a prime time job. Perhaps I need interview you ... FAIL!

'So Benny now turns out to be the photographer'

Well if you actually read my story you would see very clearly that Benny was the guy who took the pictures and who exactly he is. And if you read the story you would see that I stated that the FCO knew he was in there from Nov 23. Whats' to check?

[andrewdrummond]

The answer to your question is that in all reports we stated that the FCO had known about the man being in Pattaya police station since November 23 2010. Prisoners in the station, Benny Moalfi, said, had claimed he had been there three months. My clarification was unequivocal. No I will not be joining Pattaya One in the near or distant future. What would I get to write? There is no vendetta. Read what I have written. Nothing bad about Howard Miller at all.

I gave you many questions, you haven't answered any of them.

Fact: You did not clarify the situation at all, not one iota. Not good for a journo really!

Please re read my post to you and answer the questions.

I am not really interested in you and Mr Miller, my questions concern the reactions you have elicited against the British Embassy Consular Staff.

I doubt you will be joining Pattaya One whatever that is (I have never had the pleasure of reading it), my invitation for you to interview me was concerning the realities of arrest and incarceration of British nationals in Thailand, but I guess the truth would not sell like your fabricated crap in this story.. In it's truest sense this is utterly diabolical journalism (in fact I do many many people a disservice by calling it journalism), shame on you. Hope it got you a few Singha. Oh by the way, if you were so appalled why didn't you free the guy? Why wait for the lady on the white horse?, maybe because you didn't meet him eh!, just left it to a photographer called Benny, who no doubt makes his living from... shocking photographs!!

Edited to add "What's to check is the fact that it is reported he had been in there for 3 months"

I have just re read your article. it is poor, ill written, with errors. Now the photographer is also an activist ex prisoner, who is lobbying against the Thai prison service. Seems like a "hey john take your shorts of mate, this will get em" photo may have been in order, but as a good research journo you checked the whole thing out right!

And to think the Lady in White may have been persuaded to front up the cash to release this guy by your exaggerated story of 3 months is quite frustrating for her I am sure. if it would have been accurately reportred about the length of the mans incarceration and the prognosis you could have saved her a grand or so, but hey, you got a quick buck.

So now the photographer ordered the guy to take off his clothes before the picture was taken? :-). I see in your first post you ask me: Would you like to interview me? Answer yes, certainly? First question. Why did you sign up with Thaivisa last night? I am not responsible for the opinion of my posters by the way nor is the owner of Thai Visa. Yes I did check the story out. A certain consular person said: He is the Thai police's problem.

[quisie]

Consular and embassy staff are limited as to what they can do, some, sadly do fall through the gaps.

However, is there a fund set up yet to a) reimburse Tracy, the angel, for her costs and to help this guy out?

Instead of slagging people off, why are we not actively doing something to help?

As someone who helps a small NGO I see, yet again, all talk talk and no action.

[quisie]

Thank you, Andrew, for bringing this case to our notice.

Your work is much appreciated here.

[TechnikaIII]

My emotion, what the <deleted> am I doing here living in this Cesspit of a country, disgusting Thailand. The police are also the biggest problem here, they are a disgrace they are!

So ... who's telling you to stay? Why don't you just go!! ..hmm ?

[caf]

"If you want to see dirty go down some of

the backstreets of most major cities in supposed first world countries.

"

you won't see a persom chained to jail bars and neglected and you don't have the same police attitude you get here. Action has now taken place because Drummond has done a "wikileaks" and for no other reason

[moetownblues]

Today is International Human Rights day, lets see what rights Thailand affords this poor man today.

[caf]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

How long after he was jailed was your first visit? If you are saying the photos are from when he was first incarcerated (please note spelling of that police word), then did part of your visit involve getting medical attention for his obvious injuries? When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him? If so, did you become involved in getting psychiatric attention for his obvious mental injuries?

You chastise the reporter's writing of a conspiracy of silence and then two lines later say that you can't say any more, which sort of sounds like a conspiracy of silence.

What you consider as "is he pressuring me" into speaking out is actually, a very reasonable expectation that the person involved with the situation to provide some answers as to what transpired in this tragic incident. It's justifiably rational to want to get to the bottom of it and you should expect it to be a part of your normal duties to explain your actions to the public.

Ideally, you would have, on your volition, initiated the dialogue yourself... so that the article is never needed to be written in the first place.

The photos were taken on Monday this week. If Howard provided him with clothes then he either lost or destroyed them or gave them away which is of course quite possible

Did Howard inquire as to what happened to the clothes he had provided the jailed man? Has Howard visited him since Monday to see him naked or has this occurred previously in the 2 weeks he has been in jail? It would be helpful to learn of when and how long these visits were.

Thank you for clarifying the photos are not from when he arrived, but are only a few days old.

.

Miller has used the technique of not giving further information before. He thus avoids answering difficult questions. I doubt much of hos explanation anyway given his past history. May take time but the FCO will get rid of him or he will be asked to resign.

[Buchholz]

I see the "joined-today" squad was out in force last night, with intimidating efforts of lawsuit threats and court-ordered ISP tracking as well as obfuscation over items in the article that are actually quite clear when one simply reads the news article (eg. source of the 3 month confinement quote).

It goes a long way in understanding how the British authorities react when it's revealed to the public how they've dropped the ball in a situation. Rather than humbly apologize for their oversight and voicing a sincere effort to endeavor to ensure that it won't be repeated in the future, we get disjointed ramblings, accusatory statements, derogatory characterizations of the civilian that did help the man, followed by blanket denials of any shortcomings they may have had in this case.

This all leads to concern that the very same situation will likely occur in the future. Sad.

[caf]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.? do they swallow every word in the sun, the mail and, God Forbid, the Sport as gospel?

this might be a bit long but please bear with me, I am getting old Let me first qualify my post here and also be very open so that there is no questionas to my intent. i am a friend of Howard miller. I work with him on the radio project and enjoy his company. he is a decent chap, despite the easily formed opinions of those who have never met him and above all he is honourable as a person. i am not asking to debate these matters, they are facts.

Whilst I am not employed by HM Government nor privy to his daily dealings, nor the facts of this case, i do consider myself as well informed as Drummond in his sensationalised story, which as usual is aimed at a sale to support him and his tribe and their life over here. he is after all an unemployed hack who "freelances" which I assure you is in no way dis-similar a method of employment to those lovely ladies who call to me from the beach on my way to the bank, they too embelish the truth to achive remuneration. Unless of course I really am a sexy hansum man.

HM cannot reply in detail to you. Nor can he even confide detail to me or any of his friends. the code of conduct is laid out by the Home Office, ( or what ever they call it today) and these matters are confidential. were they not then he would be allowed to confide in us all, the intimate details of any Brit who is in need of consular or embassy services which you, and i would then complain as an invasion of privacy.

He, and all his collegues report to the big boys on any information supplied to them regarding Brits in distress or need here. The course of action is then determined and sent back to them for them to action. That is a simple fact and is available to us all, along with the Home Office guidelines, rules and modus operandi, in fact you can google it. just as in any postion of responsibility, the operative, in this case Howard, would be required by his masters to act in a pre-described manner and no other. he would then also be required to report back.

Neither you, I or Lord Drummond of the tin hut know the inside story on this matter. How it was being dealt with, how long it had been in hand and how difficult it had or had not been to make arrangements to suit the thai authorities (and this of course is Thai soil, thai law and not the UK). We are not privy to the conversations held between the gentleman and Howard, nor to his wants or needs. So ALL of that section of this sensationalised story is guesswork and 3rd hand info.

So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day.

And whether or not the UK Offices would have handled the matter similarly or had the matter in hand, the outcome of the woman's actions is that the distressed gentleman is now, hopefully, more comfortable and getting help. I am sure she meant well and should be applauded for her endevours. She is lucky that she doesnt have to work within any perameters, I am sure that our Home Office boys wish that they to could act similarly and perhaps if they were not working on hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune, they would be able to do so. The Royal Thai police, however, are, I am sure, equally adapt at running their laws and prisons according to their law, and this is their country. ( again i refer you to the procedures outlined by the home office for interaction with foreign national police on non UK soil.

In response to the "When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him?" as far as i am aware, neither person, the lady or Hm are qualified to answer that question.

WHAT I DO KNOW: is that this chap was photgraphed in some local rag a month or so back, living on the beach. he was a a known homeless person in Pattaya. ( we have many here). We have failedd businessmen, failed husbands, broke drunks, broke druggies, visa overstayers, hippies, weirdos and nut-cases. they are all a part of the city. You only need to wander around at 3 in the morning to see them sleeping, or 9 in the morning having their first pick me up of the day. trust me, we have a lot of rejects in our midst.

In a thai nick at mid-day, if I were the least bit unshy, I too would strip off. You may not be aware of the fact that it gets quite hot in there, many to a small cell, no a/c or fan.

As an aside to the HM story, which is obviously designed to feed the piranhas, I have a few questions.

Couldnt Drummond have made a credible story without slagging of Howard, here and on his three running posts on his fred? Is there a potential to increase the story value by adding unproven, sourceless attacks? of course there is... in the hack eat hack world of media prostitution.. its all about the money.. and just like the ladies I wave to on beach road.... the more BS they fire at us, the more chance they have of us believing it

What a nonsense post. media prostitution, LORD Drummond, sensationalised story, BIT BIASED ARENT YOU. Your references to the lady who has arranged to get him out are not very appropriately worded. The information was not guesswork or second hand. You quote a lot of nonsense about home office rules though it's not a home office matter. From your quote you seem to work for Miller on his radio project.

"hundreds of cases a week, many of similar misfortune," I doubt that comment but if it is the case that there are many cases as bad as this one, then I think your attempts to be an apologist for Miller have failed miserably.

[caf]

My God Fathers, I didnt realise so many folkl really believe everything they read from a hack.?

We probably won't believe much from someone who joined 30 minutes ago.

If you read his post he works with Miller on his radio project. Seems Miller is using him and Raylo seems a bit out of touch.

[caf]

Well. after a long long time of simply surfing around the boards on this site, I am compelled to register and post.

I am staggered by the number of venomous posts on here calling the British embassy staff and volunteer workers all the names under the Sun, when it is quite clear that the vast majority of posters on here have absolutely no clue about what goes on and no idea at all of the people they are trashing who work for the British Embassy.

I am not quite sure I know where to start.

I am not an Embassy official, but have done some work with them as I wished to be involved with prison visits, and where better to start than with the Consular staff who at the time offered me 'free training and advice'.

I have never met such a group of diligent, hard working individuals since I arrived in Thailand. Often some of them continue to work through till 7pm every evening (overtime is not paid). They are professional, caring and knowledgeable , and luckily have Rhinoceros skin. In Thailand, they provide a service that far exceeds the legal requirement, and they do it because they care greatly. Sure like anybody in any job, they can cock up, but it is a rare event. Often, (in fact almost always), they give money out of their own pocket when they first visit a prisoner, cash and they buy clothes, books, food, soap etc etc. Now you may consider 'so what', but there are at least 100 Brit prisoners in Bangkok alone, do you have any idea how much that costs.

The embassy is required to visit anybody held in custody once every 8 weeks until they are committed to prison by a court, after that your rights to consular visits are minimal. In reality the Consular staff visit much more regularly than that and are in the Immigration detention centers and prisons every day of the week.

The consular staff are not 'diplomats'.

They do not go to "Lunches, Dinners and Parties" every day, nor do any of them say "Tally Ho Old Chap".

A few members are career FO workers, who are posted here along with their expertise from the UK. Most are guys like you, who moved out here for a better life, applied for a job and got it, and are paid Thailand salaries.

They are confronted on a day to day basis with the threat of physical and constant verbal abuse, as others seem to wish to make their own misfortunes and wrongdoings the fault of Consular staff.

Imagine being a cashier in Tesco's or working behind a local bar and someone comes up to you and says "oy you, you little f***ing C**t, give me some f***ing money and some food and beer now you peice of sh*te". My question is, would you continue to serve them? The chances are...no! Yet I have sat and heard exactly those words shouted out at two consular representatives, one of whom was a young Thai lady, and after their eyes went down and they took a breath, they continued to offer to help the man. They even gave him 500 baht, to tide him over until they had filled out all the paperwork to get him 1000 baht a month from the charity 'Prisoners Abroad".

The FO cannot pay for your repatriation. Do you have any idea how many people that would be around the world each year???? Go back to the Tesco's analogy. You queue up with a full shopping trolley, get to the checkout and when it comes to payment you say, "sorry I have forgotten my wallet, can I take my shopping home and I will come and pay you tomorrow". If in some moment of lunacy the cashier says yes, then word spreads like wildfire and soon, every person in all 36 checkout queues are saying and demanding the same thing.

They always call your next of kin and relatives, but on many occasions the prisoner declines the offer. They cannot contact anyone without your consent, and when funds arrive they will even buy your tickets for you. There are people today in lengthy terms in the Immigration Detention Center, who have money and tickets arranged to go home by the Embassy, but choose not to do so because..... they know that there are arrest warrants waiting for them when they arrive back in the UK. it is laughable.

People going into the Consular office:-

'I have lost my credit card, I want a new visa card now please"

I have run out of money, cause when I came on holiday I never thought it would be this much. Can I have a loan".

I have lost my air ticket home and I fly tomorrow, and if you don't get me a new one I will break your legs"

"I have found out my wife is sha**ing someone else at home, can you dial 999 in England and have the ba**ard arrested"

"can you tell me where to buy some vinegar for my chips, they don't have vinegar for chips here do they"

I kid you not, you could write a best selling comedy book on what the Consular Office have to put up with.

They have had outsourcing forced upon them, it is not the 'fault' of the Embassy here, and as an extra kick in the slats, that out sourcing means they lose 6 job placements here, so those left are working all the hours God sends, to support a bunch of miserable gits as represented by many on this very thread. I never used to believe the stories the Consular staff told me until I heard them, and now I see the attitudes of the great british public replicated here on this very forum.

The British passport is a means of identification for those that wish to travel. it is not an insurance policy for you for when you <deleted> up. If you are mental and you are returned to the UK, then you get the money and come straight back to Thailand, what do you think can be done for you?

Many detainees 'act' mad as it scares the thai prisoners in the cell and they leave you alone.

I visited one guy who clearly had mental issues and the embassy paid for a full analysis by a BRITISH psychiatrist . They pay for medical tests and examinations. I have also been to see someone whom the Thai authorities had not notified anybody of for a week. This guy had 400K baht in the bank, and his ATM card in prison. I could not go and get the money out for him (15 mins) because in the past the same had been done and then the newly released guy says "he took 30K out to release me, but has taken an extra 10K out for himself as well", I am suing the British Government". The actions of some very bad people (and some of the comments on here display some with similar tendencies) ruin every service for everybody else. This guy spent an extra week in jail because of some a**hole drunk in the past.

FACT: As a Brit, your consular services will visit and do as much for you as they can, even when you call them the worst possible names when you meet them.

FACT: As some have suggested to the contrary on here the US Embassy staff WILL NOT visit, neither will they visit you every 8 weeks as a minimum. You are on your own. Big boys rules.

I hope that the more vorciferous of those amongst the posters here, one day find themselves in the slammer, and find that you actually are humbled by the help that you get from the consular staff, when everyone else in the world doesn't care if you die.

I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this case, but it may also be that the guy was cuffed to the bars because he was trying to rape, beat or bite the other 20 guys in the cell, and there are no facilities to segregate him.

it is clear from reading this forum that many of you come on here just for a fight, but it is also evidently clear that you know nothing of what goes on.

Lastly, I do not know Howard, but what I will say is this. The guy does not deserve the public (his name is used in the first person, whilst you all hide behind your handles) slagging he is getting, and as a warning to you all, Internet laws are very very strict when it comes to defamation these days, and there are people on here who I am quite sure are guilty of defamation. Should Mr Miller decide to pursue any class action, upon receipt of a court order, this site must provide full details of you, your ISP details etc etc, and they WILL do it. Your ISP will provide your home address. So unless you operate out of a multitude of internet cafes, you really should not be so vicious with your on line attacks.

I would like to finish by wishing the guy in the case all the best, but know that when he is repatriated, he will be back within weeks, and lastly a very great thanks to the Consular Staff for the excellent work they put in on behalf of the most thankless group of people anybody has worked for.

I can comment, I don't do the work anymore, because i got pi**ed off with trying to help a bunch of selfless moronic individuals, most of whom want to blame everyone else for their self inflicted misfortunes, and want everyone else but themselves to take responsibility.

BS but welcome to joining as an active member yesterday. Your first post is certainly a long one but again largely with incorrect and misleading facts.

And certainly not addressing the real issue of this man's plight treated like an animal in a police cell while the consulate is principally inactive; although it seems is now trying some damage limitation. With posters like you Raylo and Miller that is not working very well.

Your comment which seems to compare this case with "ordinary" requests to the consulate - " have lost my credit card, I want a new visa card now please" is way off.

What a plonker

[caf]

(Dual Post)

Mr Miller has been in the deep end for his failure to at the very least issue a memo for the never ending daylight robbery along Pattaya beach, in his defense he clearly felt the growing anger and has since had an article published by the paper he is associated with. But this case really has highlighted not only a lack of human dignity but mainly misrepresenting the compassion of the British people, Foreign Office rules may dictate this or that, but the Basic's at the very least to have had the man watered and fed at a cost of 50-100b a day were neglected. What would be interesting to know is what happened to Mr Richard Ian Hewitt between the 13th and 23rd, as seemingly not arrested on 13th, did it really take ten days for them to release he was an overstay? I have long had reservations about Mr Miller and many who work/volunteer under the banner of the tourist police, stories have surfaced about certain Individuals working alongside scammers making so called 'deals' for foreign nationals, more worrying is the very real info of their blatant work as informers, I have no proof of any involvement of Mr Miller but let's just say he rubbed shoulders with some very corrupt volunteers and officials.

Thanks to that bizarre and undiplomatic response you have but your head on the block to be the Embassy scapegoat.

@SecretTom, I to find myself on the verge of dissecting the buffet of lies and 'red tape' you have laid out for us,but after reading your mock of Tracy " So a lady comes along on her white horse and saves the day" frankly I'm thinking better of it, why waste my time with somebody so clearly devoid of human connection and compassion you appear to be a prime example of social disintegration. PS I would steer well clear of Tracey Cosgrove after that "white horse" comment for your own safety.

Why is it Mr Millers responsibility or job to issue a statement on the 'daylight robbery along Pattaya Beach"?

The prisoner was fed and watered. That is the responsibility of the Thai Government.

100 Baht per day times 100 prisoners plus immigration detainees would be about 400 K baht per month. Again, I reiterate to you specifically that your comments concerning Mr miller are right on the edge and either you or a Mod would be best advised to remove them.

I don't believe for a minute that 'SecretTom' was mocking Ms Cosgrove. She did a very humane thing. I just hope she can come to terms with the situation when this chap returns to Thailand in 4 months and is found chained to the bars of another prison somewhere in this country. Why should SecretTom steer clear of Ms Cosgrove for his own safety? She is clearly a kind and humane individual. A lesson a lot of posters on here would do well to heed.

It is quite amusing that most of you that bay for blood of consular staff here concerning this case, are the same individuals that when someone screws up and ends up in prison are the first to be saying "good, hope he dies and rots in a Thai jail", "Now he will see justice", "Do the crime, do the time", etc etc etc. I like to think of myself as a good person, but to be sure, the UK is well rid of many of the individuals that post on this forum.

His comment on Ms Cosgrove was indeed mocking and inappropriate. This man's situation in a prison cell was inhumane by any standards. He was obviously not properly fed and watered as you put it. Even Miller had to admit he brought him water.

[hm1973]

What is this I read about me standing to attention!

What a load of rubbish. This thread is becoming stupid now.