Briton Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station

[softgeorge]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

[bonobo]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of the thread.  Posts have been deleted and warning given.

[NALAK]

i have sent this to most national tv station and newspapers also various mental health organisations.

HM you have to dance to a differnt tune now, you left this man in this state, i for one have put a complaint into the FCO about the guys treatment. One compalint about the Consular in Samui and that was it. maybe you were to busy at one of your many other business interests.

PLEASE can you put pressure on the British goverment to get this man home. he

is mentally ill and chained naked in a Thai Jail. Mr howard miller british

consular has visited him 4 times and done nothing. He is after all a British

citezen.

DET please pass onto national papers, somebody has to help this guy get

home.

Whilst I admire your objectives, with the greatest of respect, a poorly written note like this is going to get nowhere.

i posted the link to this thread with the e mail. i think the thread says it all, along with the pictures. Journalists will do the rest. all that needs to be seen and said is on here for them to read. what should i have wrote that they cannot see on here.

[Deeral]

One of the issues as I understand it is that Mr Howard must have known about this prisoner for several weeks, yet apart from giving him some water, he did nothing.you would have thought that simply as a fellow human being he might have tried to arrange some professional help or some charity that was capable of supplying the help this man needed.

But....

as far as I can make out, he did nothing.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Deeral

[theoldgit]

i posted the link to this thread with the e mail. i think the thread says it all, along with the pictures. Journalists will do the rest. all that needs to be seen and said is on here for them to read. what should i have wrote that they cannot see on here.

Don't take it personally, I'm not trying to be offensive or be "the grammar police", but when journalists read words like "what should i have wrote" and " Mr howard miller british consular has visited him 4 times and done nothing. He is after all a British citezen." they would probably dismiss it, and I doubt very much if they would plough through umpteen pages of an internet forum.

I say again I applaud what you are trying to achieve and hope I have not offended.

[moetownblues]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

OMG he certainly does look in worse shape than the poor prisoners on the railway. Weren't the gaurds on the railway charged with war crimes? This would have to be he most shocking story I have ever seen on this site.

[NALAK]

i posted the link to this thread with the e mail. i think the thread says it all, along with the pictures. Journalists will do the rest. all that needs to be seen and said is on here for them to read. what should i have wrote that they cannot see on here.

Don't take it personally, I'm not trying to be offensive or be "the grammar police", but when journalists read words like "what should i have wrote" and " Mr howard miller british consular has visited him 4 times and done nothing. He is after all a British citezen." they would probably dismiss it, and I doubt very much if they would plough through umpteen pages of an internet forum.

I say again I applaud what you are trying to achieve and hope I have not offended.

read the sun recently? OK written, Citizen, lack of caps deliberate, anyway as long as i can try and help the guy, few years ago my mother was diagnosed as Pyscotic, but thanks to treatent cured of mental health problems so is a hobby horse. spelling grammer a weak point must admit, but still got through life and retired at 45 so is it that important, after all it is a forum on the net and grammer and spelling is not supposed to be a problem. no not offended but would have preffered the effort was in sending e mail about this poor chap.

[Deeral]

i posted the link to this thread with the e mail. i think the thread says it all, along with the pictures. Journalists will do the rest. all that needs to be seen and said is on here for them to read. what should i have wrote that they cannot see on here.

Don't take it personally, I'm not trying to be offensive or be "the grammar police", but when journalists read words like "what should i have wrote" and " Mr howard miller british consular has visited him 4 times and done nothing. He is after all a British citezen." they would probably dismiss it, and I doubt very much if they would plough through umpteen pages of an internet forum.

I say again I applaud what you are trying to achieve and hope I have not offended.

read the sun recently? OK written, Citizen, lack of caps deliberate, anyway as long as i can try and help the guy, few years ago my mother was diagnosed as Pyscotic, but thanks to treatent cured of mental health problems so is a hobby horse. spelling grammer a weak point must admit, but still got through life and retired at 45 so is it that important, after all it is a forum on the net and grammer and spelling is not supposed to be a problem. no not offended but would have preffered the effort was in sending e mail about this poor chap.

Your grammar o the net is not being criticised!It is the chances of a poorly written letter to thee press that are being questioned.

[OzMick]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

The difference is that this man's condition is not due to his current location, but his OWN mental illness/drug addiction/insolvency. It doesn't happen overnight, or even in a couple of weeks.

It appears that clothing was provided, but that he refuses to wear it or has removed it after soiling himself - neither uncommon in the mentally ill. Hasn't it occurred that he is chained because he is violent to police and other inmates? This is not a simple problem to be cured with a little money, he may well require institutional care for the rest of his life, and that care is not the responsibility of the thais.

[Deeral]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

The difference is that this man's condition is not due to his current location, but his OWN mental illness/drug addiction/insolvency. It doesn't happen overnight, or even in a couple of weeks.

It appears that clothing was provided, but that he refuses to wear it or has removed it after soiling himself - neither uncommon in the mentally ill. Hasn't it occurred that he is chained because he is violent to police and other inmates? This is not a simple problem to be cured with a little money, he may well require institutional care for the rest of his life, and that care is not the responsibility of the thais.

It seems you are about 200 years of of date with your views on treatment of mental illness.

The fact remains that MR Howard appears to have known about this mans plight for sometime and did nothing

[Buchholz]

The mentally ill either refuse the help or are unwilling to recognize that they are ill. Mr.Miller is not a social worker nor trained in the delivery of mental health services. That's not an excuse, but I'm trying to be fair here. I did my rotation on a psych ward and didn't last long.

I worked for 6 years on a psychiatric ward and it's inaccurate to say the mentally ill refuse help. The percentage that are very grateful for assistance rendered far outnumber those that refuse treatment. While those unwilling to recognize that they are ill are more numerous than those refusing treatment, they remain a minority. Most mentally ill when faced with the reality of their symptomology will admit to their illness and will receive help. Being mentally ill is an extremely distressing situation and even when psychotic are usually quite receptive to assistance.

However, a consul cannot be expected to make daily visits to one person. There are a number of equally serious cases that pop up on a daily basis.

I seriously doubt any of the them are equally serious as this:

If a consul focused on one case, he or she would be forced to let other cases slip, right? It's a rationing of resources.

Does the consul have no other resources besides himself? Can he not see to it that someone, anyone could at least check on someone so dire on at least an every other day basis?

Returning to your first quote. It doesn't require training as social worker or a mental health professional to recognize when someone is psychotic. It's very, very obvious to even a laymen. It would seem appropriate that at some point in the man's 2 week incarceration, that the blatant need for attending to the man's concurrent medical and mental difficulties was indicated, yet no where has it been indicated that either was done by the consul.

.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Buchholz

[moetownblues]

Anyone thought of dropping a short email to human rights maybe if they get enough someone may at least make a phone call to the English embassy. [email protected]

[Deeral]

There is little evidence (as yet) that Mr Howard tried to help - seems to have been quite happy with this man being where he was.

As for suggesting he's too busy???

I think if he were that disorganized to ignore this person and not even make some someone else aware of the situation he should rethink his suitability for the job

[NikhilBkk]

Isn't everbody here missing the main point here: According to international human rights laws found in various treaties, etc.........no sick prisoner is supposed to be cuffed to a cell in such a manner. Why did not the Honorary Consul do something about it despite all his visits. By condoning such a move by the local police there, he is not fit to be the Honnorary Consul and should be stripped of his position. Actions should also be taken to have the police who cuffed him punished. Please everyone.....send out emails to all your friends locally and overseas to see this article and get them to do some lobbying or else this could happen to you, or a friend or someone else one day.Thailand should not be having a seat on the UN with the way that it treats people.....locals or foreigners alike.Send out emails with links to this site to whichever media that you know too.

[waza]

Isn't everbody here missing the main point here: According to international human rights laws found in various treaties, etc.........no sick prisoner is supposed to be cuffed to a cell in such a manner. Why did not the Honorary Consul do something about it despite all his visits. By condoning such a move by the local police there, he is not fit to be the Honnorary Consul and should be stripped of his position. Actions should also be taken to have the police who cuffed him punished. Please everyone.....send out emails to all your friends locally and overseas to see this article and get them to do some lobbying or else this could happen to you, or a friend or someone else one day.Thailand should not be having a seat on the UN with the way that it treats people.....locals or foreigners alike.Send out emails with links to this site to whichever media that you know too.

Also, this poor guy wasnt charged with any offence, except he overstayed his visa, it was claimed he was held prisoner for the safety of himself and others. Why would anyone consider this treatment and place was for his own good and not try to help?

Edited December 10, 2010 by waza

[Chunky1]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

no

[Chunky1]

How dare some of you question Howard's lack of action in this situation. You should be ashamed at yourselves for even speaking his name. He is a very powerful farang figure in Thailand and deserves to be treated with the utmost respect and gratitude, as should all farang police. :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

[OzMick]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

The difference is that this man's condition is not due to his current location, but his OWN mental illness/drug addiction/insolvency. It doesn't happen overnight, or even in a couple of weeks.

It appears that clothing was provided, but that he refuses to wear it or has removed it after soiling himself - neither uncommon in the mentally ill. Hasn't it occurred that he is chained because he is violent to police and other inmates? This is not a simple problem to be cured with a little money, he may well require institutional care for the rest of his life, and that care is not the responsibility of the thais.

It seems you are about 200 years of of date with your views on treatment of mental illness.

The fact remains that MR Howard appears to have known about this mans plight for sometime and did nothing

A few years back I was quite familiar with the treatment of the mentally ill, having friends working at both Morrisset and Rydalmere hospitals in NSW. What I can state as fact was that both facilities were almost always full to capacity with long waiting lists, and that mental health treatment is an expensive drain on the public purse. As a previous post pointed out, Thailand has very limited mental health facility which is, and should be, for the treatment of thai citizens, not illegal aliens.

I have no comment on the actions/inactions of the UK embassy and its reps, but if they refuse to accept responsibility for this man, then he is between a rock and a very hard place.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The British Honorary Consul seems a decent enough guy. I think it may just be a case of having been in Thailand a very long time, so inevitably you get to a similar mindset with regard to certain situations. With a British / First World mindset, you see a sick person urgently needing care. With a Thai mindset, you see a potentially dangerous nutter who's plight is best ignored.

"Tracy", who helped out retained a First World mindset. I think that is a requirement for an honorary consul. I do believe Howard can 'relearn' that, like I said, he seems a better man than most.

[Deeral]

The British Honorary Consul seems a decent enough guy. I think it may just be a case of having been in Thailand a very long time, so inevitably you get to a similar mindset with regard to certain situations. With a British / First World mindset, you see a sick person urgently needing care. With a Thai mindset, you see a potentially dangerous nutter who's plight is best ignored.

"Tracy", who helped out retained a First World mindset. I think that is a requirement for an honorary consul. I do believe Howard can 'relearn' that, like I said, he seems a better man than most.

What a load of rubbish!MR Howard is the BRITISH consul - if you think that "having a "third world" mindset " - is some kind of excuse for his behaviour - I'd give you 10 out of 10 for creativity and nil for logic!...or knowledge of what you laughingly refer to as third world - you're just showing your ignorance

Edited December 10, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

The Brit and prisoners of war on the Thai/Burma Railway where looks better cared for?

The difference is that this man's condition is not due to his current location, but his OWN mental illness/drug addiction/insolvency. It doesn't happen overnight, or even in a couple of weeks.

It appears that clothing was provided, but that he refuses to wear it or has removed it after soiling himself - neither uncommon in the mentally ill. Hasn't it occurred that he is chained because he is violent to police and other inmates? This is not a simple problem to be cured with a little money, he may well require institutional care for the rest of his life, and that care is not the responsibility of the thais.

It seems you are about 200 years of of date with your views on treatment of mental illness.

The fact remains that MR Howard appears to have known about this mans plight for sometime and did nothing

A few years back I was quite familiar with the treatment of the mentally ill, having friends working at both Morrisset and Rydalmere hospitals in NSW. What I can state as fact was that both facilities were almost always full to capacity with long waiting lists, and that mental health treatment is an expensive drain on the public purse. As a previous post pointed out, Thailand has very limited mental health facility which is, and should be, for the treatment of thai citizens, not illegal aliens.

I have no comment on the actions/inactions of the UK embassy and its reps, but if they refuse to accept responsibility for this man, then he is between a rock and a very hard place.

Take a look at START in NSW - and learn a bit about treating foreigners with mental problems.

"Illegal alien" does not even if proven deny your human rights.

[waza]

The British Honorary Consul seems a decent enough guy. I think it may just be a case of having been in Thailand a very long time, so inevitably you get to a similar mindset with regard to certain situations. With a British / First World mindset, you see a sick person urgently needing care. With a Thai mindset, you see a potentially dangerous nutter who's plight is best ignored.

"Tracy", who helped out retained a First World mindset. I think that is a requirement for an honorary consul. I do believe Howard can 'relearn' that, like I said, he seems a better man than most.

What a load of rubbish!MR Howard is the BRITISH consul - if you think that "having a "third world" mindset " - is some kind of excuse for his behaviour - I'd give you 10 out of 10 for creativity and nil for logic!...or knowledge of what you laughingly refer to as third world - you're just showing your ignorance

Ditto, "third world mindset"! The word you are looking for is empathy, its a character trait, not something you can easily learn. Whats the opposite of empathy? Its what those authorities showed toward this man, namely apathy.

[morejunk]

Once again the Oracles on ThaiVisa have become judges, jury and (if they could) executioners.

Most of you have based your decisions of guilt and blame on suspicion, innuendo, accusation and perhaps even a few facts. The truth is that probably none of you have any real knowledge of what has transpired. Miller has not told you any details about what he or the embassy has done or will do or their position. He stated he could not/would not divulge that information under terms of his Council position.

Don't mistake my position as support for Miller. I don't know what is true at this time. I don't like him and never did. I believe he is self serving and trying to make up for his insecurities through his "public service" actions. I think his "public service" is used as an access point to boost his news media endeavors and gain inside information. I have never appreciated his performance as a Walking Street wannabee cop, repulsed by his TV performances, don't read his newspaper anymore and seldom look at his website. Big Trouble in Thailand made him out to be more of a clown than cop. YouTube videos were even less flattering. It would appear that the British Embassy did not take any my dislikes into consideration for their selection of the Honorary Council.

I haven't had much to do with Drummond before this. I have very mixed opinions after reading his comments. Not all good.

The point is that most of you have decided facts, guilt and fate based on what? Crystals balls, Ouija boards, tea leaves or what? Certainly not on the "many" facts that have been written in this topic.

Edited December 10, 2010 by morejunk

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