Briton Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station

[healthcaretaker]

Amazing Thailand !

Can't agree more. Even a foreigner choose to die in Thailand.

The Thai government is great on transparency. Cases like this in neigbouring countries will go unreported and unknown to anyone.

Is that like the naked truth? Sorry...couldn't resist.

Yes, the naked truth....much more ..... I will it transparent truth. Keep it up Thailand !! I am coming soon.

[Lovedog100]

Personally, I would like to thank Tracy, whom ever she is. Thanks for getting involved. The world needs more people like you.

[caf]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

No, I cannot. I don't think they would ever find out about it because it would not be newsworthy. Thai's have a very low view of criminals. Many object to death by lethal injection because it doesn't cause enough pain and suffering for the criminal.

"Many object to death by lethal injection because it doesn't cause enough pain and suffering for the criminal."

I've not heard any Thai express a view like that or even similar. Sounds like a pub argument to me.

[caf]

Andrew, have any UK newspapers shown an interest in your story?

It went out on a run and I had requests from The Times and Telegraph for both words and pictures. I have not seen however it reported on the internet sites for these newspapers. So at this stage nothing. I might review the case tomorrow though. I think the pictures may be too gross for the morning papers.

Perhaps for their own reasons they want something a bit more sanitised. Does the truth always hurt?

[asiawatcher]

I think before everyone cries foul look at the average Thai jail and police station. If (and I say 'if') this guy is mentally disturbed, and has AIDS - (how was that established?) - then he should be isolated in any low end hospital but as to the conditions of the photograph they do not show anything other than what is real in a Thai jail! If you spend time in a Thai jail you will know this is a 'normal' photograph of many. Sorry to put you off your pies peas and gravy Brits but this is how 3rd world countries treat inmates. Tiles only, between 25 - 50 depending on the size of the cell, share the floor space and yes, water bottles for pillows. And if you can afford the protection you pay to have two guys either side of you to stop the rape, stabbing or whatever takes the other inmates fancy.

So all climb down from your "do-good" soap boxes and realise this is what you can expect (in the least) at a Thai jail. Maybe Thaksin would like to explain this to the Human Rights elitists, had he not just cancelled his US trip!

[healthcaretaker]

My emotion, what the <deleted> am I doing here living in this Cesspit of a country, disgusting Thailand. The police are also the biggest problem here, they are a disgrace they are!

Time to go back to mom. Have a save trip.

Comments like this really p1ss1ng me off.

Maybe you will enlighten us why you are living in Los. You do or not? Or is it just for 6 month here and 6 month home @ moms?

What has Thailand did so far for the Farangs who are coming in huge numbers every year and for the expats living here? WHAT?

Right, absolutely nothing. They are ignorant, inhuman and see whitenoses just as money spending machines. If they cant milk u anymore you are not

worth living here or walking the streets. Doesnt matter how many millions of Bath you spend before, you are just not worth simply human attention

when you doesnt even have pockets do wear money or a credit card in. If you cant pay the hospital they let you die infront of the door, who cares?

There is not the slightest thing of a social system in this country and we are living in the 21st century and a country making billions out of farangs.

Wake up and get real. You can be here as long as you have something to spend, otherwise you are nothing more then useless garbage! YES, YOU TOO

Selfish attitude like this really p1ss1ng me too !!

If Thailand don't let you in, I am sure you will not be happy. If Thailand let you in, you complained that she is just after your money.

Look here, be fair and reasonable.

1) Thailand NEVER force any foreigner, whether rich or poor, to visit or not to visit.

2) Thailand is not a charity country. You don't expect any one hopeless to live for free, not even in the police station. No one should expect the British Embassy or anyone to give assistance in such case, too.

3) You think Britain will allow Thais or anyone to go in as easily as Thailand has allowed us ? I have been asked several silly, if not insulting questions at the London airport immigration although I have return tickets and a bank account with more than enough money to last my stay. at least twice. I have seen a Thai girl and a Chinese lady been taken away by a policewoman at the immigration; and I can bet they should be more unhappier than you. I have seen some poor-looking Asians been poorly treated at the immigration while entering London. I have passed through Thailand immigration not less than 50 times and I have NEVER seen anything as bad. I am not saying the British is not right. I am just trying to wake you up.

Now be more grateful and reasonable. Thailand is very very much better than the Bristish goverment(in treating the poor, especially), don't even compare.

Reminder to others: Stop complaining on the dual-pricing too. It's fair. It's their country, outsiders should pay more since it's already so cheap.

Edited December 9, 2010 by healthcaretaker

[healthcaretaker]

I've not read all the threads as they have built up a lot over the dayBUT

Can anyone answer this

Howard Miller

What has he done or is going to do?

Whatever his obligation as an honorary consulate he is also a well know proponent of expat living here and is frequently seen dressed in black on walking Street as a volunteer policeman.Surly he must have been aware of this person for some time yet it appears he has done nothing

He also reads and posts on this site

Has he ansered yet?

He don't need to answer. This hopeless Briton will die anywhere. Probably his own country don't even want him back if he has no money.

[tropo]

An Australian would have fared the same in the same circumstances - all things being equal - all so called fisrt worlders would have.

I'm referring specifically to the Australian Embassy and how they would have reacted to this situation. I'd like to believe they would have done better than the UK Embassy.

[healthcaretaker]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

That is possible, but such an event would of course not occur in the UK (thank god) but since the chap is known to have slept beneath parked cars, then he probably regards his current situation (under arrest) somewhat up market.

Of course such event willl not occur in the UK. They don't allow poor people in into their country. Asian tourists especially.

[caf]

Thailand NEVER force any foreigner, whether rich or poor, to visit or not to visit.

Thailand is very very much better than the Bristish goverment(in treating the poor, especially),

Not sure you should be telling people to wake up!

The tourist authority of thailand tries to encourage tourism. obviously this case won't help but of course they wont mention that. So you are wrong to say NEVER

And I doubt anyone would agree with yourv second remark if facts be known.

[oldsailor35]

What exactly are you guys expecting the consulate to do?

You are abroad, you are not in the UK anymore.

Try to contact his family in UK. Then try to organise getting him back after he has had any medical treatment needed. Having overstayed, i am sure that the Thais do not want him here

[caf]

He don't need to answer. This hopeless Briton will die anywhere. Probably his own country don't even want him back if he has no money.

What a daft comment

Miller is an embarrassment to the consulate now as he was to the tourist police. But he's laughing all the way to the bank

[oldsailor35]

An Australian would have fared the same in the same circumstances - all things being equal - all so called fisrt worlders would have.

I'm referring specifically to the Australian Embassy and how they would have reacted to this situation. I'd like to believe they would have done better than the UK Embassy.

Mate ! don't be so confident.

I couple of years ago, i was robbed in Amsterdam. I called the Aust embassy, got no money, no passport, no air tkt., was told " to make my way to The Hague, sorry no help, we get backpackers etc calling on a regular basis, because they don't look after their belongings". The Brit consul helped me out with small amount of cash and a ticket on Easy Jet back to Luton because i was able to prove that i owned a Brit passport, after they had rung Canberra...........................I had been an Australian citizen for 31 years by this time.

[maxman71]

Man, this is tragic. Hope he gets the care he needs and then he needs to go home. I knew a guy,(another Brit) in Phuket some years ago who showed up in Patong with maybe 2,000 GBP to his name. He had sold his car back in the UK to raise the cash he had, had 18 months of back child support trailing him back home. In less than a year, he was having money sent to him from his father (this guy was in his 50's), which he used to have a good time, rather than pay his rent, bills, etc. He came to the point where he had various people after him for money and he was literally looking over his shoulder. Then he began exhibiting bizarre behavior, to the point he began believing his own fantasies as to how he was going make money. The sad part was, he had some good ideas, but by his own admission, he was lazy. So a couple of his mates contacted his family back home, and they concluded the best thing to happen was for him to go home before he wound up dead. (he owed some dodgy locals a fair sum of money). In the end, he was picked up for overstay and sat in the immigration detention center in Phuket City for several weeks. We brought him food to make sure he stayed reasonably fed. He was in a cell with about 15 other various foreigners that was maybe a few hundred sq.ft., no bedding, etc. He eventually got sent home and the British Embassy did help coordinate, but his family paid the ticket for him to go home. The point of all this: Don't come here thinking you're going to magically have things work out and be able to establish yourself long-term unless you have a solid plan, some decent financial werewithal, a backup plan, and most importantly, some activity(s) that keep your mind sharp and away from the destructive distractions a good part of the time. This guy's story is not the only one I have that ends badly for some people who come here and lose it.

[overhaul38]

Do you suppose that a Thai in similar circumstances in the UK illegally would be stripped naked and chained to the bars?

[theoldgit]

Do you suppose that a Thai in similar circumstances in the UK illegally would be stripped naked and chained to the bars?

Absolutely not, nobody would.

[hm1973]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

[overhaul38]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

That is possible, but such an event would of course not occur in the UK (thank god) but since the chap is known to have slept beneath parked cars, then he probably regards his current situation (under arrest) somewhat up market.

Of course such event willl not occur in the UK. They don't allow poor people in into their country. Asian tourists especially.

Obviously you have your mind made up but if you are still open to reason please know that the UK does allow poor people in their country...Asians and all. I know many Thais that have traveled to the UK and various European countries and they are far from rich so don't generalize unless you can back it up with anything but anti-colonial bs.

Edited December 9, 2010 by overhaul38

[TAWP]

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

/../

Howard

Don't expect any of the usual suspects to apologize for their posts against your name. Some of them are just as sad as those that sneak around after the police volunteers on walking-street with film-cameras...as we saw in this thread.

[andrewdrummond]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

On a point of order there original piece states he is reported to have been in the cell for three months and then later explains who made that claim. But the piece also stated that the British Embassy knew since November 23 2010.

Making silly comments about me being frustrated at earning no money are not only crass but unbecoming of a British Honorary Consul. Do you think that;'s what the FCO Press officers say to journalists every time they call with a press enquiry? How much are you going to make out of this one? :-)

No but a Pattaya Brit might :-) Actually I get paid whether the story is used or not if the story is requested.

I do not need to know any information either from you or the FCO about this case. I know pretty much all of it already. I have kept the man's identity out of all stories, although as people have found out, it is out there.

If there are errors in the first two entry blogs by all means highlight them. The whole point about news is that information is updated all the time.

What interest have the FCO taken today,btw. No you can't answer that. Nothing.They appear quite glad someone else is handling the issue.

[caf]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

You give some information - 2 weeks and not 3 months - which may or may not be true. But you obviously arent going to be totally transparent

So YOU gave him food water and food. Commendable. Could the police not even give him water. That is what you are implying.

If the other errors are, in your view, not worth highlighting then clearly they are not material and the truth of the original blog stands unchallenged.

It's interesting that you like the title of Drummond's blog. For you are right. It is a conspiracy of silence as your post correctly confirms.

Can't comment on whether Drummond got paid or not. But can't see what is has to do with the topic. You do seem to like making personal snide remarks. Not an attribute that the Embassy or Consulate would approve of quite frankly. Ever heard of diplomacy. Well, knowing your history probably not.

[NALAK]

as a Brit this is a disgusting story, i thought consul had been replaced by well kown Pattaya resident, note the omission of hounary, one before same catergory. only decent one was D Covey in Samui. this should cost somebody in Bangkok there job. time they all read the mission statement again.

Wait wait, so the Thai police creates a problem and the UK Embassy/Consul has to solve it?

As far as I know, Embassies do have a strict policy on those cases, and if a UK citizen is "impounded" in a police cell, he may have not been registered.

All the blame goes to the Royal Thai Police and the Pattaya Police in specific; did the victim has aids? was this tested? why was the prisoner naked? did he do that himself? all questions.........and of course no answers.

[NALAK]

as a Brit this is a disgusting story, i thought consul had been replaced by well kown Pattaya resident, note the omission of hounary, one before same catergory. only decent one was D Covey in Samui. this should cost somebody in Bangkok there job. time they all read the mission statement again.

Wait wait, so the Thai police creates a problem and the UK Embassy/Consul has to solve it?

As far as I know, Embassies do have a strict policy on those cases, and if a UK citizen is "impounded" in a police cell, he may have not been registered.

All the blame goes to the Royal Thai Police and the Pattaya Police in specific; did the victim has aids? was this tested? why was the prisoner naked? did he do that himself? all questions.........and of course no answers.

yes thats what they are here for, just like the convicted drug dealers still get visited. its there job, and what we pay them for and why they get a big fat index linked pension.

[housepainter]

What appalls me about it are the conditions he is found in.

Clearly neglected, denied dignity, medical treatment or assessmnet he is ignored by all at the Police Staion. That is, the highest ranking Police Officer runs the station in such a way that this kind of inhumane treatment is accepted.

It is a disgrace. It is unacceptable. Is is unpardonable.

However, when you are in the hands of the uneducated, ignorant and dangerous police that is what can happen. Furthermore, when there is no rule of law; when there are no checks or balances in place; when no one cares; when such corruption is rife; then, this is the result.

The British Embassy should make a fuss. It will privately but it would take something of the order of a WickiLeak for us to larn the truth of just what the British Embassy, thinks, says and does.

I can not understand why all foreign nationals in Pattaya, certainly the more civilised Europeans, do not take to the streets in protest and besiege the Soi 9 Police Station. Some form of strong protest showing that we will not accept this is needed.

There are some aspects of Thailand,thta show it to be little other than a dirty third world country, that deserve to be damned.

This is merely another one.

We the decent, educated and compassionate people are subject to treatment such as this by these cruel, viscious and stupid ignorant beings.

How can anyone tolerate, condone or ignore this?

I hope the British Press run with it.

[apollo13]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

Potato Head hath spoken !......He visited 4 times, saw the condition of this mentally ill person deteriorating and waited in the wings to be the hero and help with funeral arrangements or the flying of a dead body back to the UK. Then came along an angel, who, on first visit, managed to get the almost dead from neglect mentally ill man into a hospital, showing Miller for what he is and isn't. I vote this angel to be the Hon' Consul....she's got more balls than Miller. One more thing, I want an Hon' Consul who understands English composition and can spell incarcerated properly. No, I doubt you will be able to add any further comments, Howard. You've already used up all of your long words.

Edited December 9, 2010 by apollo13

[NALAK]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

so as a representative of the British goverment you visited him 4 times and left him in this condition each time, cant say i find your appointment comforting. 2 hours would have been to long. you seem to have taken the same line on a mental health issue as the Thai police.

[geriatrickid]

Ok, now that there has been a clarification of some facts, the 4 visits, the bringing of food and water, can people stop blaming the embassy/consul for a situation it cannot control? The detention and manner of detention is entirely under the control of the Thais. The consul/embassy cannot wave a magic wand and have him released. The key issue is the manner in which the mentally ill are treated and managed. Even if the subject was released, then what? Who was going to care for him? We cannot force people to get help without a court process and order. It's really not a viable option here is it ?here are limited mental health resources available in Thailand.

The UK taxpayers have made clear their views on the provision of services in foreign countries: They want the services cut back. Consuls and embassies have to find ways around that. I'm sure the consul was just as distressed and frustrated by the situation as anyone in here is, but he cannot change Thai procedures. All he can do is to try and use moral suasion and work within the existing rules to help a man that doesn't want help. The consul does not run daycare facilities. Fortunately a good samaritan came forward. If people are that upset, go make a donation at her charity to cover her costs.

.Just by bringing the case to light, Mr. Drummond has done an important service and for that I thank him. However, finger pointing by anyone will not address the oozing abscess that mental health care is in Thailand. The Drummond article may cause some foreigners to think about a tragic situation and consider ways to help, whether it be volunteering or by donating or even just by being good samaritans. Hopefully, the consul can get together with other consuls and develop a common strategy to confront the situation as it relates to visitors and expats. With the aging population, senile dementia and other age related problems are going to be a common occurrence. The next person chained up could be an elderly neighbour suffering from alzheimers or anyone of us suffering from a health issue.

Think big picture please.

[Buchholz]

Unfortunately I am not able to get too involved in this thread but I would like to say that the initial story has errors, one of which is the length of time he was at Pattaya Police Station for.

The original piece states "He is reported to have been there for three months...."

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

I like Drummond's current blog entry, "A conspiracy of silence - a comment" which I am sure he issued out of sheer frustration that the story did not earn him any money. Is he trying to pressure me, the Embassy or the Foreign Office into speaking out on the case and revealing what actually happened?

There are more errors in the first two blog entries on this case but they are not worth highlighting.

I will no be able to post any more here.

Howard

How long after he was jailed was your first visit? If you are saying the photos are from when he was first incarcerated (please note spelling of that police word), then did part of your visit involve getting medical attention for his obvious injuries? When you visited him, did he display the sort of very overt psychotic behavior that was readily apparent to the woman who did rescue him? If so, did you become involved in getting psychiatric attention for his obvious mental injuries?

You chastise the reporter's writing of a conspiracy of silence and then two lines later say that you can't say any more, which sort of sounds like a conspiracy of silence.

What you consider as "is he pressuring me" into speaking out is actually, a very reasonable expectation that the person involved with the situation to provide some answers as to what transpired in this tragic incident. It's justifiably rational to want to get to the bottom of it and you should expect it to be a part of your normal duties to explain your actions to the public.

Ideally, you would have, on your volition, initiated the dialogue yourself... so that the article is never needed to be written in the first place.

.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Buchholz

[caf]

What appalls me about it are the conditions he is found in.

Clearly neglected, denied dignity, medical treatment or assessmnet he is ignored by all at the Police Staion. That is, the highest ranking Police Officer runs the station in such a way that this kind of inhumane treatment is accepted.

It is a disgrace. It is unacceptable. Is is unpardonable.

However, when you are in the hands of the uneducated, ignorant and dangerous police that is what can happen. Furthermore, when there is no rule of law; when there are no checks or balances in place; when no one cares; when such corruption is rife; then, this is the result.

The British Embassy should make a fuss. It will privately but it would take something of the order of a WickiLeak for us to larn the truth of just what the British Embassy, thinks, says and does.

I can not understand why all foreign nationals in Pattaya, certainly the more civilised Europeans, do not take to the streets in protest and besiege the Soi 9 Police Station. Some form of strong protest showing that we will not accept this is needed.

There are some aspects of Thailand,thta show it to be little other than a dirty third world country, that deserve to be damned.

This is merely another one.

We the decent, educated and compassionate people are subject to treatment such as this by these cruel, viscious and stupid ignorant beings.

How can anyone tolerate, condone or ignore this?

I hope the British Press run with it.

Well said

Your posts put the usual thai apologists to shame.

[easyride]

He was incarcarated for just under two weeks during which time I visited 4 times, providing food, water and clothes and he was in the condition shown in the photo's when he arrived there.

/../

Howard

Don't expect any of the usual suspects to apologize for their posts against your name. Some of them are just as sad as those that sneak around after the police volunteers on walking-street with film-cameras...as we saw in this thread.

I don't apologise for my comment. Should have cleared this up hours ago though filming 'volunteers' has got bugger all to do with it.