Kaad Suan Kaew - Fail!

[Bearnagh]

My wife and I Went to Kaad Suan Kaew the other day. We took our baby (10 weeks) in her pushchair.

We entered the building from the car park on the 1st floor. We actually wanted to go to the ground floor. Having an infant in a pram meant that we needed an elevator. When we went to the elevators near the front of the building however, it became clear that they only went to floors above and didn't go down. We went over to the information desk and asked if there were other elevators in the building that would take us down. The girl on the desk said "no" and pointed us towards the escalators. Thinking that perhaps she somehow hadn't noticed the baby in the pram, we pointed to it and asked how we might get it down. Her answer --- this is astounding --- "just take it down on the escalator… I'm sure it'll be ok… nobody will mind."

Well there was absolutely no way we were going to attempt to carry out such a crazy and dangerous manoeuvre with a 10wk baby. My wife asked her if there was perhaps somewhere we could park the pram for 15 minutes and we would simply carry the baby downstairs. We were told that there was not. My wife then asked if the pram might be parked close to the information desk for a short time. That was refused. So there we were, effectively stuck on the 1st floor. Thankfully a nearby jewellery seller had overheard this episode and kindly offered to mind the pram for a while, to allow us to carry the baby and go downstairs. The information lady was disinterested.

When we got into the 'Central' shopping centre, inside the complex, we soon realised that there were indeed other elevators which access all floors. We need never have faced any problem at all!

What kind of training goes into the provision of the information service at KSK? For the person behind the desk not to know something as fundamental as where the elevators are is staggeringly poor… but to advise people to take babies in prams onto an escalator (which overlooks a 50ft drop to the ground floor) is utterly unacceptable and positively dangerous. I know that in the UK, every escalator in every building has a sign forbidding you to take prams or buggies on it.

I wonder what she would have advised someone in a wheelchair? "Don't shop here. Go home" ?

Yes… we did ask to speak to a duty manager… that too was refused.

Sorry Kaad Suan Kaew…. FAIL !

Edited December 9, 2010 by Bearnagh

[lannarebirth]

I'm not sure why you needed to talk to anyone at all. Couldn't one of you have held the baby and the other the pram as you descended the escalator? Or failing that leave the baby in the pram while descending but have one of you stand on the step directly in front of it to prevent a problem if the other of you lets go of the pram for whatever reason. I would have thought once you'd walked in through that noxious 1st floor parking garage the rest of your trip would seem a breeze by comparison.

[Bearnagh]

I'm not sure why you needed to talk to anyone at all. Couldn't one of you have held the baby and the other the pram as you descended the escalator? Or failing that leave the baby in the pram while descending but have one of you stand on the step directly in front of it to prevent a problem if the other of you lets go of the pram for whatever reason. I would have thought once you'd walked in through that noxious 1st floor parking garage the rest of your trip would seem a breeze by comparison.

NO! - positively NO.

Taking a pushchair onto an escalator is a non-starter. It is very dangerous, even to other people around it. That's why it's banned in most other countries.

[harrry]

I wonder what she would have advised someone in a wheelchair? "Don't shop here. Go home" ?

No she would have sent someone with you to know where the lifts are that access all floors. I know because that is what they did for me. In your case you are capable of using the escalators which are the method of travel here for people using strollers and did not wish to do so. As far as she was concerned you had your answer. As far as regulaions are concerned this it Thailand not the UK and what is done in UK is not relevent.

[Bearnagh]

I wonder what she would have advised someone in a wheelchair? "Don't shop here. Go home" ?

No she would have sent someone with you to know where the lifts are that access all floors. I know because that is what they did for me. In your case you are capable of using the escalators which are the method of travel here for people using strollers and did not wish to do so. As far as she was concerned you had your answer. As far as regulaions are concerned this it Thailand not the UK and what is done in UK is not relevent.

I think you are rather missing the point. Shouldn't the information desk know where the elevators are?

Are you really saying that we should engage in dangerous practices just because we are allowed to do so?

mmmmm curious philosophy.

[canuckamuck]

I'm not sure why you needed to talk to anyone at all. Couldn't one of you have held the baby and the other the pram as you descended the escalator? Or failing that leave the baby in the pram while descending but have one of you stand on the step directly in front of it to prevent a problem if the other of you lets go of the pram for whatever reason. I would have thought once you'd walked in through that noxious 1st floor parking garage the rest of your trip would seem a breeze by comparison.

I agree.

You carry your baby when you go down a flight of stairs don't you? What do you do when you go to places with no elevator at all?

You are going to have to be a bit more flexible if this is going to be your home, there are much greater inconveniences in the Land o' Thais than this.

Edited December 9, 2010 by canuckamuck

[Bearnagh]

I'm not sure why you needed to talk to anyone at all. Couldn't one of you have held the baby and the other the pram as you descended the escalator? Or failing that leave the baby in the pram while descending but have one of you stand on the step directly in front of it to prevent a problem if the other of you lets go of the pram for whatever reason. I would have thought once you'd walked in through that noxious 1st floor parking garage the rest of your trip would seem a breeze by comparison.

I agree.

You carry your baby when you go down a flight of stairs don't you? What do you do when you go to places with no elevator at all?

You are going to have to be a bit more flexible if this is going to be your home, there are much greater inconveniences in the Land o' Thais than this.

OK - I'm going to spell this out.... If you read my original posting you will see that there was no problem with carrying the baby. We actually suggested that. Did you read that? The problem was with the pushchair.

I am not prepared to put myself, my family, or any other member of the public at risk. What's so difficult to understand here?

[canuckamuck]

And the pram is not the kind that folds up and you can carry it under your arm, while your wife holds the bambino?

Any how if you want me to agree that asking information in Thailand is as accurate as pulling an answer out of a hat, I will agree with that. Actually asking for information is dangerous because they tell you either what they think you want to hear, or they will say whatever will get rid of you quickest. The wrong information is generally more inconvenient than no information.

[iainiain101]

This is Thailand not the UK. You will need to calm down to enjoy being here. Try taking your pram for a walk down the roads, not exactly fun, and if they do put in new pavements you can be assured that within a week they will have trees planted in them to make them non pram friendly.

Perhaps you work in 'Health and Safety', or some other such 'new' labour/liberal nanny UK state position that most of us are happy to be here avoiding.

Edited December 9, 2010 by iainiain101

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Reality is that families carry young babies on motorbikes without helmets etc. The police don't care and the average Thai considers this totally normal.

Just because you go inside a mall that looks modern and western does not mean it's modern safe society.

There are more elevators in that mall and not surprised the info people are clueless. It's more about the appearance of information that is important. I bet the information girl looked professional and presentable.

[meadish_sweetball]

With the SUV type prams so popular in the West at the moment, I would agree it is a bad idea to try to take one down an escalator, but the small ones are very easy to maneuver with some practice. For two adults, I honestly don't see what could go wrong, unless one is severely coordinationally challenged.

[jayjay0]

This is Thailand not the UK. You will need to calm down to enjoy being here. Try taking your pram for a walk down the roads, not exactly fun, and if they do put in new pavements you can be assured that within a week they will have trees planted in them to make them non pram friendly.

Perhaps you work in 'Health and Safety', or some other such 'new' labour/liberal nanny UK state position that most of us are happy to be here avoiding.

Well said

Most of the laws in the western countries are based on fear of what could happen. Also they take into account what is convenient.

For instance it is convenient to ride a elevator even though the power might go out and you can be stuck there for a day.

One of the things I love about Thailand the people are not afraid to live. Unlike the west they are not preoccupied with death.

Yes it was a sad situation when the information booth could not direct people to elevators. Can you imagine the answer to a more specific question. They might have you going to airport shopping center.

[bangkokcitylimits]

'Why do things easy if you can do them difficult'

hahahahahahaha

Edited December 9, 2010 by bangkokcitylimits

[realthaideal]

Actually the girl at the information desk gave you some very key information (kee information!) about Thailand and you should thank her heartily! You have to remember 'TITs' after all - This Is Thailand. And she's just a body who is supposed to show up. Training ? Like with actual learning and a test ? For her salary ? Not much likely in either case. She's just a body and she did what she could with her limited abilities. Not taking the piss here, just pointing to the realities with rose-colored glasses off.

I remember being lost one day in my first month here in Thailand. We already spoke some Thai too - limited but enough to get around. I asked the security guard in front of the Thai Airways office which street I was on. He didn't know. I stuck around, made small talk for a cpl minutes, asked his name, how long he'd worked there, was it good work, etc. ? He told me he'd been there almost two years. After that I thought I'd give it another try. I asked again what the street was called - and another time only got the awkward Thai smile as he was mystified and embarrassed. IN TWO YEARS HE NEVER BOTHERED TO LEARN THE ADDRESS OF WHERE HE WORKED OR THE NAME OF THE STREET RIGHT OUTSIDE HIS BUILDING ! Two years ! I was shocked and incensed. To me it still seems like it would be of little bother to stretch the brain a little and put some information in there, but curiosity is a trait that has to be encouraged in the greater society for it to catch on. It's quite the opposite here.

[Gonzo the Face]

Actually the girl at the information desk gave you some very key information (kee information!) about Thailand and you should thank her heartily! You have to remember 'TITs' after all - This Is Thailand. And she's just a body who is supposed to show up. Training ? Like with actual learning and a test ? For her salary ? Not much likely in either case. She's just a body and she did what she could with her limited abilities. Not taking the piss here, just pointing to the realities with rose-colored glasses off.

I remember being lost one day in my first month here in Thailand. We already spoke some Thai too - limited but enough to get around. I asked the security guard in front of the Thai Airways office which street I was on. He didn't know. I stuck around, made small talk for a cpl minutes, asked his name, how long he'd worked there, was it good work, etc. ? He told me he'd been there almost two years. After that I thought I'd give it another try. I asked again what the street was called - and another time only got the awkward Thai smile as he was mystified and embarrassed. IN TWO YEARS HE NEVER BOTHERED TO LEARN THE ADDRESS OF WHERE HE WORKED OR THE NAME OF THE STREET RIGHT OUTSIDE HIS BUILDING ! Two years ! I was shocked and incensed. To me it still seems like it would be of little bother to stretch the brain a little and put some information in there, but curiosity is a trait that has to be encouraged in the greater society for it to catch on. It's quite the opposite here.

RTD, I doubt the guard was in the least put off..... he knew full well he worked across the street from the liquor store, that is across the street from the Thai Airways office.

[Bearnagh]

RTD and Gonzo....

Very entertaining.... and probably absolutely spot on!

Thanks for your comments.

[elektrified]

This is Thailand not the UK. You will need to calm down to enjoy being here. Try taking your pram for a walk down the roads, not exactly fun, and if they do put in new pavements you can be assured that within a week they will have trees planted in them to make them non pram friendly.

Perhaps you work in 'Health and Safety', or some other such 'new' labour/liberal nanny UK state position that most of us are happy to be here avoiding.

I agree. Just take the pram down the escalator while the other one holds the baby. What's the big problem? Why all the fuss? All the Thais do it, and yes so do I. This is Thailand. If it's not for you maybe find somewhere else. Things will never change. Get used to it.

[macsurf]

Op, How long do you plan on staying here? You are in for a rough ride.

[eek]

Even though this kind of thing happens here, I do think the OP is entitled to his vent about it.

..and yes, even though TIT, there are some things that do still beggar believe, imo. If i ever go to an information booth here, i dont expect the person to know any answer to anything i may ask, but I still hope that they might.

Does anyone actually use that information booth at KSK anyway? I thought it was just a place to do DIY make up and nails.

[Pillion]

I'm not sure why you needed to talk to anyone at all. Couldn't one of you have held the baby and the other the pram as you descended the escalator? Or failing that leave the baby in the pram while descending but have one of you stand on the step directly in front of it to prevent a problem if the other of you lets go of the pram for whatever reason. I would have thought once you'd walked in through that noxious 1st floor parking garage the rest of your trip would seem a breeze by comparison.

I agree.

You carry your baby when you go down a flight of stairs don't you? What do you do when you go to places with no elevator at all?

You are going to have to be a bit more flexible if this is going to be your home, there are much greater inconveniences in the Land o' Thais than this.

OK - I'm going to spell this out.... If you read my original posting you will see that there was no problem with carrying the baby. We actually suggested that. Did you read that? The problem was with the pushchair.

I am not prepared to put myself, my family, or any other member of the public at risk. What's so difficult to understand here?

A pram down an escalator? What a walk in the park!

Try pillioning down an escalator! Tried, perfected and mastered.

[Contractor]

Op, How long do you plan on staying here? You are in for a rough ride.

I think the OP needs to adapt to his surroundings a bit.

When the burning season starts, is he and his family going to live in an oxygen tent for 3 months?

Rgds

[CheGuava]

LOL.. I love posts like this.

Any response can be summarized as: "Welcome to Thailand!".

You will likely have figured out by now that the only place where a pram is remotely useful is in shopping malls. Try taking it down a side walk somewhere. Anywhere.

And indeed we just take out the kid, hold him on escalators and whatever else the obstacle course that is Thailand throws our way, and then put him back in when we're on level soil. Which is usually our own driveway.

Edited December 9, 2010 by CheGuava

[chuang]

This is Thailand not the UK. You will need to calm down to enjoy being here. Try taking your pram for a walk down the roads, not exactly fun, and if they do put in new pavements you can be assured that within a week they will have trees planted in them to make them non pram friendly.

Perhaps you work in 'Health and Safety', or some other such 'new' labour/liberal nanny UK state position that most of us are happy to be here avoiding.

I agree. Just take the pram down the escalator while the other one holds the baby. What's the big problem? Why all the fuss? All the Thais do it, and yes so do I. This is Thailand. If it's not for you maybe find somewhere else. Things will never change. Get used to it.

I too agreed....just make sure next time around you go for a stroll with the pram...just say to yourself " I am in Thailand "

not UK...what may be consider dangerous in one country may be be so in another.

[sarahsbloke]

I am not prepared to put myself, my family, or any other member of the public at risk. What's so difficult to understand here?

You are not in the western world

The foolish standards of the western world do not apply here

If you don't like it, best you don't stay here.

What is so difficult to understand?

[jdinasia]

I am not prepared to put myself, my family, or any other member of the public at risk. What's so difficult to understand here?

You are not in the western world

The foolish standards of the western world do not apply here

If you don't like it, best you don't stay here.

What is so difficult to understand?

Hmmm no risk?

That means

1) Don't use public transportation

2) Don't drive

3) Don't walk or ride a bicycle

4) Don't eat or drink ANYthing

5) Don't go to a movie theater

6) Don't be in any crowded situation

7) Don't be alone

8) Don't use any ATM

9) Don't speak to strangers

10) Don't rent

11) Don't buy

The list is endless! I have only lived in Thailand for 8 years so I am sure I cannot come up with an exhaustive list of how to not put yourself or anyone else at risk!

Really ... taking an empty pram down an escalator with one person in front and one holding it from behind is probably the LEAST dangerous thing you will do in Thailand

[Scott]

One post removed. Please stay on topic and refrain from remarks directed at other posters.

[mcgriffith]

Look, we should try to give the OP a little bit of space on this issue.

Yeah, he was a bit over the top on the clueless info desk lady.

I'm a parent; my son is 26 now. What a lot of non-parents don't realize on this issue- when you have a newborn baby, you've gone through 9 mo. and a birth....it is very stressful.

The poor chap is just wigged out like every new father is. Super careful and cautious about anything that could threaten the well being of this new bundle of joy.

Cut him some slack; he'll get over it in time.

Congrats on the baby, Bearnagh.:jap:

[NancyL]

The OP should consider transporting the infant the way that Thai people do, i.e. fashion a sling with a length of cloth and carry the infant close to your body. Thai children are so much calmer than western kids. Maybe it's because they are next to their parents, hear their hearts and feel their body whenever they are in new situations. Much better than being strapped into a chair that bumps along, a couple feet above hot pavement while your parents are nowhere in sight.

I agree that KSK isn't up to western standards and the OP deserves to vent. The first month we were here, Hubby hit his head on one of the low ceilings at KSK. Really hard. The staffer we "complained" to just did the Thai giggle and smile. At least she had the manners to wipe the smile off her face when I pointed out that it wasn't funny. But, (of course) they haven't raised the height of the ceilings. Hubby just has to pay attention if we go to see a movie at KSK. As they say, this is Thailand.

He's adapted and perhaps the OP's family should if they plan to remain here for a while.

[SoloFlyer]

You complained for hitting your head on a ceiling?? My god CM is gonna be... ah, forget it.

[philw]

You complained for hitting your head on a ceiling?? My god CM is gonna be... ah, forget it.

Yep, you are right...........

Not sure but pretty certain i saw a guy get shot today but it won't impact the shopping or cultural experience..........

I'm starting to worry about how we can get my wheelchair down the escalators........