Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day

[News_Editor]

Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day

2010-12-10 08:30:05 GMT+7 (ICT)

WASHINGTON, D.C. (BNO NEWS) — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Thursday recalled international activists defending civil societies during this year's Human Rights Day.

Clinton recalled Eleanor Roosevelt's words when she presented the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to the UN General Assembly, proclaiming that "we stand today at the threshold of a great event, both in the life of the United Nations and in the life of mankind."

On December 10, 1948, the world moved to recognize and protect the equal and inalienable rights of all people, inspiring individuals around the globe to claim the rights that are common heritage for Americans, Clinton stated.

"I witness small and large acts of courage every day in every part of the world. Liu Xiaobo, this year’s Nobel Peace Prize winner, helped author Charter '08 calling for peaceful political reform in China and lost his freedom for the cause," the Secretary of State said. "On this Human Rights Day, I reiterate our call for his immediate release."

Clinton went on to make not of the group Damas de Blanco, which has faced harassment and intimidation while advocating for the release of political prisoners, focusing international attention on Cuba’s poor human rights record.

She also spoke about Magodonga Mahlangu and her organization, Women of Zimbabwe Arise, which suffer arrests and abuse as they continue working to empower women to mobilize and take non-violent action against injustice.

"Citizen heroes from all walks of life draw strength and hope from the promise that every country in the world has made in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights," Clinton added.

The work of these activists to "reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person," and their courage to persist is a testament to all that is good in the human spirit, she underlined.

"Sixty-two years after Eleanor Roosevelt laid out those clear, inviolate principles, we again stand upon a threshold as the need to support and defend civil society has taken on renewed urgency."

"A vibrant civil society is an essential component of free nations, yet many governments continue to employ intimidation, questionable legal practices, restrictions, detention, and willful ignorance to silence the voices of those who defend human rights," Clinton stated, adding that the U.S. is committed to promoting and defending civil society around the world.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2010-12-10

[SergeiY]

lol

[EnSvenskTiger]

lol

Yeah LOL.

At least, I tried but the severity of the topic and the total deceitfulness of that snake in woman’s clothes made me choke on my laugh and I puked instead.

Tiger

[SergeiY]

lol

Yeah LOL.

At least, I tried but the severity of the topic and the total deceitfulness of that snake in woman’s clothes made me choke on my laugh and I puked instead.

Tiger

It isn't Hillary or the gender of the Secretary of State - it is the system this person is standing for and represents that made you choke on your laugh and puke instead.

[slapout]

The system and other systems were/are based based on principals which for the most part are set out for the good of the people. It is when the subsequent human elements, who seem to have their own translation and precepts of what was originally intended that multiple problems arise.

Mother Nature had a good system until humans came alone and screwed it up and it seems no country of the world has not seen the same happen to the lofty principals which were originally proposed.

[whybother]

It isn't Hillary or the gender of the Secretary of State - it is the system this person is standing for and represents that made you choke on your laugh and puke instead.

I get the distinct impression that you don't like the United States Sergei. I'm not sure if it's this post that gives it away, or every second other post of yours that makes me think that.

[SergeiY]

It isn't Hillary or the gender of the Secretary of State - it is the system this person is standing for and represents that made you choke on your laugh and puke instead.

I get the distinct impression that you don't like the United States Sergei. I'm not sure if it's this post that gives it away, or every second other post of yours that makes me think that.

I have nothing against Hillary Clinton personaly or dislike her because she is a woman. I don't like human rights violations and i don't like dishonesty and bigoted hypocrisy.

I know that you have no problems with human rights violations and even defend such activities.

So what is your point? Bickering? Troll attack?

[whybother]

It isn't Hillary or the gender of the Secretary of State - it is the system this person is standing for and represents that made you choke on your laugh and puke instead.

I get the distinct impression that you don't like the United States Sergei. I'm not sure if it's this post that gives it away, or every second other post of yours that makes me think that.

I have nothing against Hillary Clinton personaly or dislike her because she is a woman. I don't like human rights violations and i don't like dishonesty and bigoted hypocrisy.

I know that you have no problems with human rights violations and even defend such activities.

So what is your point? Bickering? Troll attack?

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

[neverdie]

is it about the war?

[slapout]

Looks like a classic case of a private war with self inflicted wounding.

[mark45y]

It is just a case of regional preferences. I think the Nobel peace prize has only been awarded to two people in jail recently one in Russia and one in China. Human rights and freedoms for some people differ depending on the country trammeling on those rights. If the US does something wrong some people come out in vehement condemnation. China or Russia get a pass.

[SergeiY]

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

I don't think that disliking human rights violations or disliking wars or just having a different opinion equals with hating the USA or being anti-USA.

But i guess that for some simpletons is my nickname alone, what makes them somehow think i am a Russian, ergo must be their arch-enemy, is provocation and affront enough so they attack me as person instead of looking at my comments.

Edited December 10, 2010 by SergeiY

[mark45y]

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

I don't think that disliking human rights violations or disliking wars or just having a different opinion equals with hating the USA or being anti-USA.

But i guess that for some simpletons is my nickname alone, what makes them somehow think i am a Russian, ergo must be their arch-enemy, is provocation and affront enough so they attack me as person instead of looking at my comments.

Not me SergeiY. I think it is because I would imagine you did not mind Andrei Sakharov and Liu Xiaobo being jailed when you find it so easy to criticize the US Secretary of State.

[whybother]

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

I don't think that disliking human rights violations or disliking wars or just having a different opinion equals with hating the USA or being anti-USA.

But i guess that for some simpletons is my nickname alone, what makes them somehow think i am a Russian, ergo must be their arch-enemy, is provocation and affront enough so they attack me as person instead of looking at my comments.

No. Nothing to do with the name. Just your anti-US posts.

And it can't be "disliking human rights violations or disliking wars", as some of your posts are pro-Russia, pro-China, pro-Thaksin, and pro-Bout. But no pro-US.

[SergeiY]

It is just a case of regional preferences. I think the Nobel peace prize has only been awarded to two people in jail recently one in Russia and one in China. Human rights and freedoms for some people differ depending on the country trammeling on those rights. If the US does something wrong some people come out in vehement condemnation. China or Russia get a pass.

Such problems are seldom solved with finger pointing at others nor it is an excuse.

Btw. The last Russian who got the Nobel peace prize was Gorbachev in 1990, the other Russian was Andrei Sakharov a dissident during the soviet times and loved by the west in the cold war.(don't assume he would support your aggressive WE ARE AT WAR mindset)

[SergeiY]

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

I don't think that disliking human rights violations or disliking wars or just having a different opinion equals with hating the USA or being anti-USA.

But i guess that for some simpletons is my nickname alone, what makes them somehow think i am a Russian, ergo must be their arch-enemy, is provocation and affront enough so they attack me as person instead of looking at my comments.

No. Nothing to do with the name. Just your anti-US posts.

And it can't be "disliking human rights violations or disliking wars", as some of your posts are pro-Russia, pro-China, pro-Thaksin, and pro-Bout. But no pro-US.

I don't write hate China posts, hate Russia posts, hate Thaksin posts, hate Thailand posts, hate Muslim posts or any other xenophobic or stereotyping comments that declares foreign cultures for inferior to the west. I dislike haters. does that makes me anti-US? is it that what you mean?

Challenge me on the concrete topic when you think i am wrong instead of coming up with such broad attack here.

that is just bickering and could be probably called trolling.

[pkspeaker]

Hilary Clintons and Obamas version of Human rights.. will they be 'celebrating' the torture, abuse, and persecution of this female political prisoner, well educated mother of three..

Injustice in the age of Obama

Barack Obama, a former law professor, should have a healthy respect for civil liberties, but his actions suggest not. Cindy Sheehan

Since being the defendant in about six trials after I was arrested for protesting the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations, it’s my experience that the police lie. Period.

However the lies don’t stop at street law enforcement level. From lies about WMD and connections to "al Qaeda," almost every institution of so-called authority - the Pentagon, State Department, CIA, FBI, all the way up to the Oval Office and back down - lie. Not white lies, but big, Mother of all BS (MOAB) lies that lead to the destruction of innocent lives. I.F Stone was most definitely on the ball when he proclaimed, "Governments lie".

Having clarified that, I would now like to examine a case that should be enshrined in the travesty of the US Justice Hall of Shame.

In February of this year, Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani mother of three, was convicted in US Federal (kangaroo) Court of seven counts, including two counts of "attempted murder of an American." On September 23, Judge Berman, who displayed an open bias against Dr. Siddiqui, sentenced her to 86 years in prison.

The tapestry of lies about Dr. Siddiqui - a cognitive neuroscientist, schooled at MIT and Brandeis - was woven during the Bush regime but fully maintained during her trial and sentencing this year by the Obama (in)Justice Department.

Before 9/11/2001, Aafia lived in Massachusetts with her husband, also a Pakistani citizen, and their two children. According to all reports, she was a quietly pious Muslim (which is still not a crime here in the States), who hosted play dates for her children. She was a good student who studied hard and maintained an exemplary record, causing little harm to anything, let alone anyone.

After 9/11, when she was pregnant with her third child, she encouraged her husband to move back to Pakistan to avoid the backlash against her Muslim children - which was a very prescient thing to do considering the Islamophobia that has only increased in this country since then.

Tortured 'truth'

Following the move to Pakistan, Dr. Siddiqui and her husband divorced. Her life took a horrendous turn justly after. While Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) - supposed mastermind of the 9/11 plot - was being water-boarded by the CIA 183 times in one month, he gave Dr. Siddiqui up as a member of al-Qaeda. Was this a case of stolen identity, or was Mohammed just saying random words like you or I would to stop the torture?

There is some disputed "intelligence" that Aafia had married KSM’s nephew, a tenuous allegation at best, and even so, guilt by association has no place in the hallowed US legal system.

Following KSM’s torture-induced 'insights', Dr. Siddiqui was listed by Bush’s Justice Department as one of the seven most dangerous al-Qaeda operatives in the world. A mother of three equipped with a lethal ability to 'thin-slice' your cognitive personality in seconds. If alleged association and a healthy interest in neuro-psychology are the definitive hallmarks of a 'terrorist operative,' then Malcolm Gladwell better start making some phone calls to Crane, Poole and Schmidt.

A culture of falsehoods

Face it, we all know that since 9/11, there have been numerous false "terror" alerts and lies leading to the capture and torture of hundreds of innocent individuals - and the heinous treatment we have all witnessed to from Abu Ghraib. Additionally, we are supposed to believe that multi-war criminal, Colin Powell, was "fooled" by faulty intelligence so much so that he paved the way for the invasion of Iraq by his false testimony at the UN but we are also supposed to unquestioningly believe the US intelligence apparatus when they lie about others such as Dr. Siddiqui.

In any case, in a bizarre scenario - to make a very long story short - Dr. Siddiqui and her three children disappeared for five years from 2003 to 2008, resurfacing in Ghazni, Afghanistan with her oldest child, a son who was then 11. She claimed that for the years she was missing, she was being held in various Pakistani and US prisons being tortured and repeatedly raped. Many prisoners, including Yvonne Ridley, maintain she was incarcerated in Bagram AFB and tortured for at least part of the five missing years.

After Dr. Siddiqui resurfaced, she was arrested and taken to an Afghan police station where four Americans - two military and two FBI agents - rushed to "question" her through interpreters. The FBI and military, claim that they were taken to a room that had a curtain at one end and that they did not know that Dr. Siddiqui was lying asleep on a bed at the other side of the curtain. As you read below it will become blatantly obvious that personnel involved from both institutions totally fabricated their stories.

This is the Americans' version: They entered the room and one of the military dudes said he laid his weapon down (remember, they were there to interrogate one of the top most dangerous people in the world), and Siddiqui got up, grabbed the weapon, yelling obscenities and that she wanted to "kill Americans." All 5'3" of her raised the weapon to fire and she fired the rifle twice, missing everyone in the small room - in fact she even missed the walls, floor and ceiling since no bullets from the rifle were ever recovered.

Then one of the Americans shot her twice in the stomach "in self-defence." It was shown at the trial that her fingerprints were not even on the weapon. The only bullets that were found that day were in Dr. Aafia's body. How many stories of military cover-ups have we heard about since 9/11? I can think of two right away without even trying hard: Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch.

Hopeless injustice

Dr. Aafia's side is this: After she was arrested, she was again beaten and she fell asleep on a bed when she heard talking in the room she was in so she got out of the bed and someone shouted: "Oh no, she’s loose!" Then she was shot - when she was wavering in and out of consciousness, she heard someone else say: "We could lose our jobs over this."

Even with no evidence that she fired any weapon, she was convicted (the jury found no pre-meditation) by a jury and sentenced to the aforementioned 86 years. It's interesting that the Feds did not pursue "terrorist" charges against Dr. Siddiqui because they were aware that the only evidence that existed was tortured out of KSM - so they literally ganged up on her to press the assault and attempted murder charges.

Even if Dr. Siddiqui did shoot at the Americans, reflect on this. Say this case was being tried in Pakistan under similar circumstances for an American woman named Dr. Betty Brown who was captured and repeatedly tortured and raped by the ISI - here in the states that woman would be a hero if she shot at her captors - not demonized and taken away from her life and her children.

I believe Dr. Aafia Siddiqui is a political prisoner and now the political bogey-woman for two US regimes.

In Pakistan, the response to her verdict and sentencing brought the predictable mass protests, burning of American flags and effigies of Obama and calls for Pakistan to repatriate Dr. Siddiqui. They know who the real criminals are and who should be in prison for life! At present, Hilary's state department harps on about 'soft power' and diplomacy, but what better way to quell US distrust in the Muslim world than to try such cases with due diligence and integrity.

In the US, not many people know about this case. Obviously many people were Hope-notized by the millions of dollars poured into the Obama PR machine - and believed when he said that his administration would be more transparent and lawful than the outlaws of the Bush era.

I guess they were mistaken.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/10/20101016133711604162.html

[mark45y]

I was just wondering why you hate the US so much. So many of your posts are anti-US.

I don't think that disliking human rights violations or disliking wars or just having a different opinion equals with hating the USA or being anti-USA.

But i guess that for some simpletons is my nickname alone, what makes them somehow think i am a Russian, ergo must be their arch-enemy, is provocation and affront enough so they attack me as person instead of looking at my comments.

No. Nothing to do with the name. Just your anti-US posts.

And it can't be "disliking human rights violations or disliking wars", as some of your posts are pro-Russia, pro-China, pro-Thaksin, and pro-Bout. But no pro-US.

I don't write hate China posts, hate Russia posts, hate Thaksin posts, hate Thailand posts, hate Muslim posts or any other xenophobic or stereotyping comments that declares foreign cultures for inferior to the west. I dislike haters. does that makes me anti-US? is it that what you mean?

Challenge me on the concrete topic when you think i am wrong instead of coming up with such broad attack here.

that is just bickering and could be probably called trolling.

Lech Walesa, Andrei Sakharov and Liu Xiaobo three recent Nobel prize winners. Yet you find no breath to criticize China and Russia the leading states in censorship, corruption and lack of human rights. You find fault only with the US.

Concrete topic. Why don't you find fault with Russia and China. We all know why you find fault with the US and a lot of us do too. Concrete topic why don't you find any fault with Russia and China? Leave off the anti US rhetoric for once. answer one concrete topic. Why don't you find any fault with Russia and China too? I don't think you can do it. I don't think you can write a post without including anti US sentiment.

[LaoPo]

..I feel saddened and sickened that the weapon: "Label him Anti-American - Anti-US" is used here on this topic once more.

If some American members don't like it that non-American members criticise one or more aspect(s) of the US Government or an American entity (like greedy Wall St Bankers) the other(s) are labeled immediately as Anti-American/US. How silly and untrue.

WHY?

I am labeled also anti-A, over and over again, and the more you American members write that, the more it settles in the brains of yourselves and others, causing it to become the famous Pavlovian Effect**

I am sick and tired of hearing that since I AM NOT ANTI-AMERICAN....do you copy that ?

To prove so I have made a list of what I like and do not like about America and, to me, it is not a surprise that the positive things I can say about America, Americans and their beaufiful country are overwhelmingly POSITIVE and GOOD!

OK here it is:

PRO or ANTI AMERICAN-1.doc and, to save you time, downloading the Document, I post it here for you:

Pro- or Anti American? December 2010

It's getting tiring and boring to be labeled as anti-American by some members over-and-over again, and I would like to let them know ONCE-AND-FOR-ALL what I like and dislike on the list, below:

I Love, admire, respect, thrilled, fascinated and excited about:

* Family and friends in the US

* my many short and long–private and business- trips in the US

* my positive experiences, investing in the US

* driving/visiting in Manhattan/New York, the Holland Tunnel, San Francisco, California, parts of Florida and some other states

* Disneyland/World, both in Anaheim/LA and Kissimmee/Orlando/FL

* Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr,

* Frank Sinatra, The Bee Gees, Hotel California, Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Marylin Monroe, Grace Kelly, Elvis Presley, Lance Armstrong, Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) Ray Charles, Bill Cosby, Clint Eastwood, Ellen DeGeneres, Tom Cruise, Michael Jordan, Eddie Murphy, Steven Spielberg, Tiger Woods,

* Halle Berry, Angelina Jolie, Julia Roberts, Susan Sarandon, Meryl Streep, Salma Hayek, Jane Fonda, Demi Moore, and many more Lady movie stars

* Tom Hanks, Johnny Dep, Will Smith, Leonardo diCaprio, Sylvester Stallone (yes him too!) Brad Pitt, George Cloonye, Kevin Costner, Robert de Niro, Michael Douglas, Richard Gere, Harrison Ford, Dustin Hoffman, Al Pacino, John Travolta, Marlon Brando, Nicholas Cage and so many more Movie stars

* President John F. Kennedy, Barack Obama, although fading trust and respect, and the Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ronald W.Reagan, Bill Clinton

· Warren Buffett, Steven Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Henry Ford, John Deere, Donald Trump, the Walton family, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Michael Dell, Steve Ballmer, Paul Allen, Mark Zuckerberg, Ralph Lauren,

* Amelia Earhart, Neil Armstrong, Charles Lindbergh, Thomas Edison, Graham Bell,

* Golden Gate Bridge, Mount Rushmore, Statue of Liberty, Lincoln Memorial, Empire State Building, Coit Tower (the penis of SF), Transamerica Building SF,

* Giant American cars from the '30's to the '60's like Buick, Chevrolet, Mustang, Auburn, Cadillac, Deusenberg, Dodge, Oldsmobile, Packard, LaSalle, Plymouth, Pontiac, Studebaker, Willy's, Blackhawk Museum (!),

* Norman Rockwell, John Singer Sargent, Keith Haring, Andy Warhol, Roy Lichtenstein, Winslow Homer, Robert Mapplethorpe, Frank Lloyd Wright, Mies van der Rohe, James Whistler, Mary Cassatt, Childe Hassam, Edward Hopper, Ansel Adams, Jeff Coons, William Merritt Chase, Frank Stella, Man Ray, Jackson Pollock

* Leonard Bernstein, Barbra Streisand, Stevie Wonder, Mario Lanza, George Gershwin

* Ernest Hemingway, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Stephen King, John Steinbeck, William Faulkner,

* Ice Cream Parlors

* IT technology; the Space program

Places, names, facts and buildings not in any particular order.

I am disappointed, not happy, have no respect or not thrilled with/about:

* dishonest Government(s) and their lying secret services, cheating upon the same governments bringing them in discredit

* The unneccessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, started with so many lies and allegations about, a.o. WMD (Iraq), despite negative reports there weren't any…

* Guantanamo Bay and its prisoners, held for many years without a fair trial

* Dick Cheney

* Pushy American Foreign policies upon other countries in the world, telling/forcing them what to do and what not to do, acting as the Police man of the World.

* Dr. Phil

* Cheating, stealing and lying Wall Street Bankers, Insurers and Mortgage Giants

* Bernie Madoff

* And a –VERY- few other things but I would have to think real hard; harder than mentioning beautiful, nice and exciting things about America and the Americans; except the bad ones but there are bad people everywhere !

But, don't call me anti-American if you can't stand the criticism about your country; I can accept it if you have valid criticism about other countries, including my own. LaoPo

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

** http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ivan_Pavlov

and: interesting read:

** The Pavlovian effect in modern government: http://newsgroups.de...9/msg00035.html

LaoPo - The America Lover

Edited December 10, 2010 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Concrete topic. Why don't you find fault with Russia and China. We all know why you find fault with the US and a lot of us do too. Concrete topic why don't you find any fault with Russia and China? Leave off the anti US rhetoric for once. answer one concrete topic. Why don't you find any fault with Russia and China too? I don't think you can do it. I don't think you can write a post without including anti US sentiment.

I hope you've read my post, above: Pro- or Anti American?

The list, all of us could produce about what's wrong, what faults there are in Russia and China would be endless, of course..of course and believe me, for the latter, I know!

The point is that there are almost no members here from Russia and China but the US is the most powerful nation on earth, still, and that there are quite a number of active American posters on this forum, including yourself.

It's obvious that the US is much discussed about, the same as news about Russia and China is now more and more in the western mainstream media because of their upcoming economical powers.

The second important thing is that most western members are informed by their own mainstream media, from their own country, since most of us like to "consume" what's new from back home; that includes the news about Russia and China since I think that most members don't read media from those countries.

So, they're stuck with what's served on their plates, every day again, in English but they won't question if that presented news is really true.

News from Russia's and China's sources is per definition, NOT TRUSTED. But they have no doubts whatsoever if the news from their own local US sources is true or not. OF COURSE IT'S TRUE........

is it?

But there are also massive numbers of British, Australian and European members on TV but I cannot recall any nation of afore said places who are so sensitive about their own country as the American members. They cannot answer logical and unbiasedd anymore when it comes to the US, even if they would disagree (backhome) with Obama, Clinton, Palin or whatever their names are.

Another point is that members from the US, Australia and Britain read,watch for 99% English media

Why and how that is (became) that American members are so sentitive......I don't know but maybe it's due to the itchy feelings of Billions of world citizens are expressing (also here on TV) about the role the US is playing, wants to play in the world, showing their gigantic powers and trying to implement their ideas, laws and will upon other nations.

As an example: the US demanded to have access to ALL private bank accounts of 500 million European citizens........luckily European Parliament voted against this demand, never mind the enormous pressure from American side.

.

Would the US like it when Europeans had acces to ALL American private Bank Accounts.?

You tell me.

LaoPo

[SergeiY]

Lech Walesa, Andrei Sakharov and Liu Xiaobo three recent Nobel prize winners. Yet you find no breath to criticize China and Russia the leading states in censorship, corruption and lack of human rights. You find fault only with the US.

Concrete topic. Why don't you find fault with Russia and China. We all know why you find fault with the US and a lot of us do too. Concrete topic why don't you find any fault with Russia and China? Leave off the anti US rhetoric for once. answer one concrete topic. Why don't you find any fault with Russia and China too? I don't think you can do it. I don't think you can write a post without including anti US sentiment.

Concrete topic? You don't know how the off topic police works here.

It was in 1975 when Sakharov from the Soviet Union got the noble peace prize. Lech Wałęsa is from Poland, he got the prize in 1983. Poland is not Russia in case you don't know and 1975 or 1983 isn't really recently in my book. And the systems of the Soviet Union and the system of Poland at that time is now history, long gone, perished.

The topic isn't even about the Nobel peace prize but about Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day. The US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is from the USA in case you don't know.

Why I should now start to talk about China? Because China-bashing is a favourite USAmerican hobbyhorse? But i am not an US-American.

Sakharov, Wałęsa, Xiaobo were/are dissidents, against the system hats off to them they are role model citizens and civil right activist.

And you are now demanding with a reference to them that is should stop my criticism and become a good patriot or what?

You have a silly logic.

But okay if you want something hear from me where i praise USamerican spirit let me quote a few words that are (supposed to be) words of Thomas Jefferson. In case you don't know him, he is one of your dead presidents.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all."

I like these words and the the spirit behind it, i hope that is pro-american enough for you.

[mark45y]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

[mark45y]

Lech Walesa, Andrei Sakharov and Liu Xiaobo three recent Nobel prize winners. Yet you find no breath to criticize China and Russia the leading states in censorship, corruption and lack of human rights. You find fault only with the US.

Concrete topic. Why don't you find fault with Russia and China. We all know why you find fault with the US and a lot of us do too. Concrete topic why don't you find any fault with Russia and China? Leave off the anti US rhetoric for once. answer one concrete topic. Why don't you find any fault with Russia and China too? I don't think you can do it. I don't think you can write a post without including anti US sentiment.

Concrete topic? You don't know how the off topic police works here.

It was in 1975 when Sakharov from the Soviet Union got the noble peace prize. Lech Wałęsa is from Poland, he got the prize in 1983. Poland is not Russia in case you don't know and 1975 or 1983 isn't really recently in my book. And the systems of the Soviet Union and the system of Poland at that time is now history, long gone, perished.

The topic isn't even about the Nobel peace prize but about Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day. The US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is from the USA in case you don't know.

Why I should now start to talk about China? Because China-bashing is a favourite USAmerican hobbyhorse? But i am not an US-American.

Sakharov, Wałęsa, Xiaobo were/are dissidents, against the system hats off to them they are role model citizens and civil right activist.

And you are now demanding with a reference to them that is should stop my criticism and become a good patriot or what?

You have a silly logic.

But okay if you want something hear from me where i praise USamerican spirit let me quote a few words that are (supposed to be) words of Thomas Jefferson. In case you don't know him, he is one of your dead presidents.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all."

I like these words and the the spirit behind it, i hope that is pro-american enough for you.

I was wrong SergeiY, I didn't think you could say Russia and China are/were totalitarian regimes that persecuted large groups of people and that human rights activists were jailed for seeking freedom. I thought you could only say that about America. Sorry I was wrong.

[SergeiY]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

Finger pointing at other will not help not is it an excuse.

Wait for it when we get the news how China or Russia celebrate the Human Rights Day. And in between learn to tell Poland from Russia and the Russia of today from the Soviet Union of yesterday.

To check since how many years Gitler and Stalin are dead would be useful too for arguments in a news forum.

You could alson check how many non-americans the american military just killed in the last few recent years, but talk about that would be probably off topic if not anti-american.

[LaoPo]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

Sigh.....

PLEASE...stop labeling someone/anbody on this forum ANTI-American, Anti-Russian or Anti-China, Anti-Cuba, anti-Thailand if someone is opposed to any government, an action or deed by that Government, previous wars and killings, but which poster is NOT opposed to the country nor it's people.

You and I are not so much apart if we say that very bad things happened in those countries and that we all hope for a much better future, including Cuba, China, Russia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Kosovo, Serbia...Thailand....AND America AND Europe.....shall I go on ?

No, of course not, since you know very well, but PLEASE STOP labeling members ANTI-any country if certain aspects or political movements or actions by any country are discussed.

The name-calling and labeling: "you are anti-American" should stop, for reasons I explained in my previous post.

And, dear Mark45y, I am convinced that MANY posters agree with me that they don''t like it when you call someone anti-country if they oppose to something they disagree with, coming from any of said countries.

It is a VERY WEAK argument to label someone anti-country if you disagree with a certain poster/member !

LaoPo

[mark45y]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

Finger pointing at other will not help not is it an excuse.

Wait for it when we get the news how China or Russia celebrate the Human Rights Day. And in between learn to tell Poland from Russia and the Russia of today from the Soviet Union of yesterday.

To check since how many years Gitler and Stalin are dead would be useful too for arguments in a news forum.

You could alson check how many non-americans the american military just killed in the last few recent years, but talk about that would be probably off topic if not anti-american.

Armies kill people, soldiers and civilians. I think when human rights are mentioned it refers to populations that are under control of civilian governments. Just my opinion. When I hear human rights abuse in the US I think of segregation and the plight of blacks and other minorities. I think of black people being hung by the KKK. I think of churches being burned and millions of people being kept in poverty for years. I think back 60 years. There were probably hundreds of people killed.

Russia and China tens of millions killed. Kind of a different league. I think tens of millions of people killed puts a different spin on human rights than hundreds of people killed. Both wrong of course.

[mark45y]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

Sigh.....

PLEASE...stop labeling someone/anbody on this forum ANTI-American, Anti-Russian or Anti-China, Anti-Cuba, anti-Thailand if someone is opposed to any government, an action or deed by that Government, previous wars and killings, but which poster is NOT opposed to the country nor it's people.

You and I are not so much apart if we say that very bad things happened in those countries and that we all hope for a much better future, including Cuba, China, Russia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Kosovo, Serbia...Thailand....AND America AND Europe.....shall I go on ?

No, of course not, since you know very well, but PLEASE STOP labeling members ANTI-any country if certain aspects or political movements or actions by any country are discussed.

The name-calling and labeling: "you are anti-American" should stop, for reasons I explained in my previous post.

And, dear Mark45y, I am convinced that MANY posters agree with me that they don''t like it when you call someone anti-country if they oppose to something they disagree with, coming from any of said countries.

It is a VERY WEAK argument to label someone anti-country if you disagree with a certain poster/member !

LaoPo

Look at the two threads. How many people commented on China jailing a Nobel prize winner and Russia supporting China?

What conclusion should I draw?

The Nobel story was the lead story on BBC and Al Jazeera. Both networks carried the ceremony live. It was big news all over the world. The entire speech by the Nobel committee person criticizing China and reminding the world of the German, Polish, Russian and Burmese Human Rights awards that were awarded to human rights activists jailed by totalitarian countries was carried live. A standing ovation was given the absent Chinese winner. There was no mention of Hillary Clinton and human rights day.

So what makes the news on Thai Visa so much different than BBC or Al Jazeera? Almost every news network that was not censored carried the Nobel prize ceremony and an anti Chinese and or Russian human rights commentary. No TV networks carried the Hillary human rights story.

Look at the difference in comments about the two stories on Thai Visa. What conclusion should I draw? You tell me. Be honest and answer my question without trying to divert attention to more war crimes. Why is the Hillary human rights story so big on Thai Visa and the Nobel prize story so big everywhere else in the world.

Edited December 10, 2010 by mark45y

[LaoPo]

LaoPo, this thread is a natural for anti American posts and the Chinese Nobel prize winner is a natural for anti Chinese, Russia and Cuba posts.

Human rights have been trampled on for years in China, Russia and Cuba. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. China, the mind boggles. I don't expect you to know anything about Cuba but I lived in Florida only 90 miles away so I know a lot about Cuba.

But what do you think will happen to these two threads. China, Russia and Cuba will get almost no negative words written in Thai Visa. America will accumulate thousands of negative words.

It is mind boggling to think someone in their right mind could actually compare human rights between America and China and Russia.

It is not that America is guiltless. It is that China and Russia are not in the same league. Stalin killed millions Russians. Mao killed millions of Chinese. How many Americans did an American President kill?

It is such a perverse irrational comparison it is hard for me to even debate it.

I don't mind pointing out America's shortcomings. But to compare America with Russia or China is beyond all reason. 45 million Chinese peasants from 1958 to 1962 20 million Russians during Stalin' reign of terror. Comparison is just not rational.

Sigh.....

PLEASE...stop labeling someone/anbody on this forum ANTI-American, Anti-Russian or Anti-China, Anti-Cuba, anti-Thailand if someone is opposed to any government, an action or deed by that Government, previous wars and killings, but which poster is NOT opposed to the country nor it's people.

You and I are not so much apart if we say that very bad things happened in those countries and that we all hope for a much better future, including Cuba, China, Russia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Kosovo, Serbia...Thailand....AND America AND Europe.....shall I go on ?

No, of course not, since you know very well, but PLEASE STOP labeling members ANTI-any country if certain aspects or political movements or actions by any country are discussed.

The name-calling and labeling: "you are anti-American" should stop, for reasons I explained in my previous post.

And, dear Mark45y, I am convinced that MANY posters agree with me that they don''t like it when you call someone anti-country if they oppose to something they disagree with, coming from any of said countries.

It is a VERY WEAK argument to label someone anti-country if you disagree with a certain poster/member !

LaoPo

Look at the two threads. How many people commented on China jailing a Nobel prize winner and Russia supporting China?

What conclusion should I draw?

I don't want to discuss the rest of your post since you're going off topic to the question in my post Mark!

The ONLY thing I'm asking Mark is that you -and other American members- stop labeling me and other members of being Anti-American!

(didn't you read my post, before: Pro- or Anti-American? )

Discuss the topic at hand, not the entire country !

I am as opposed and angry as you are to the banning by the Chinese Government of Liu Xiaobo for receiving the Nobel Peace Prize 2010, today, and instead putting him in jail for 11 eyars; it's a bloody shame !!

Let there be no misunderstanding about that, but it would be the same dumb mistake by myself if I would label you anti-China.

Anti-China Government ?

Fine, I accept and even support that but at the same time, YOU should start accepting that there are many people outside the US who do not agree with certain steps by your own Government and maybe you should withdraw a few long toes and think about the CONTENT someone is writing instead labeling him/her/them immediately as being Anti-American if their opinion doesn't suit you or other American members on this forum.

WE ARE NOT ANTI-AMERICAN; we -occasionally- oppose to certain deeds, actions and/or steps by your Government or other entities, whether you like ot or not.

LaoPo

[mark45y]

Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day.

It is a really back page news story. If you look at an American newspaper you would have a hard time finding it.

The only newsworthy thing about the story is the obvious hypocrisy of Hillary talking about human rights.

If one wanted a story about human rights today the Nobel prize story was headlines all over the world in both print and TV.

So, it led me to wonder why on earth anyone would read and post a story that had as its only news interest the hypocrisy of Hillary Clinton and the US.

So I looked at the copyright of the story and it is BNO News.

BNO News is a news agency based in Tilburg, the Netherlands.

Who reads BNO news based in the Netherlands to find news stories designed to point out American hypocrisy?

[LaoPo]

Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day.

It is a really back page news story. If you look at an American newspaper you would have a hard time finding it.

The only newsworthy thing about the story is the obvious hypocrisy of Hillary talking about human rights.

If one wanted a story about human rights today the Nobel prize story was headlines all over the world in both print and TV.

So, it led me to wonder why on earth anyone would read and post a story that had as its only news interest the hypocrisy of Hillary Clinton and the US.

So I looked at the copyright of the story and it is BNO News.

BNO News is a news agency based in Tilburg, the Netherlands.

Who reads BNO news based in the Netherlands to find news stories designed to point out American hypocrisy?

1. This topic was published in WORLD NEWS by the editor in charge on board of Thaivisa; whoever that is and whyever they decided to publish the OP.

2. I did a quick check and BNO (never heard of) was bought by MSNBC who, in turn, are owned by: NBC Universal with 82% of the Shares and Microsoft 18% of the shares:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC

3. I also did a quick Google: Secretary of State Clinton celebrates Human Rights Day

and guess who's on top? Thaivisa !

BTW: Mark45y; you are a Master in not answering and replying to my previous posts and questions but sidetracking onto different paths and roads all the time

LaoPo