New Helmet Laws Introduced As Fatality Rate Soars In Thailand

[Deeral]

You guys bitch about having more then 2 on bikes and helmet quality, you go pay for an extra bike or car and a nice helmet for a poor thai family then. They don't even have mosquetto nets or shutters and any toilets in the NE let alone these luxuarys.

Get real.

5555555555555555--koto your worse than sam........................no Idea...........bread and lard.................newspapers for table cloths.......................1 bicycle.between 6 kids......................council house................no school uniform..............1 day at the seaside was my annual holiday.........................the Thais are far more better off than our family ever was...................however poor they maybe...........most have motor cycles and mobiles and t.vs.....................I agree a lot of people dont understand--but most know the real truth.... out there in rural Thai country....................if most set their mind to it. they can..if they want...help themselves more..

Deeral, The point I was trying to make to the other 2 persons was---there are poor and there are POOR, you 3 are trying to get brownie points from poor thais. trying to make others think I am Thai bashing---WE know about the shanty--we know about the needy----I am or was talking about the Thai that plead poverty---but can help themselves----obviously you dont think they exist--you think they all live in shantys-----if they dont have electricity how do they charge their mobiles----and the poor and old can get free electric- they all have village water--and its up to the thai if he wants a pvc shower pipe--or just a tap and a trough of water for washing..I live in a small shanty village, and help the needy---but I do not help the greedy-----but this IS about using a helmet-most is lazy-itis----my post is an answer to the believers of most thais do not have money for helmets. that is wrong---I went without when I was a kid---if we couldn,t afford we didnt buy-----why get a bike -and not a helmet

THe more you type - the more I see that you neither understand what constitutes poverty or the causes of poverty - phrases like "Thais that plead poverty" are profoundly ignorant and show little grasp of the issues....therefore your argument is fallacious.

However this post is about wearing hats - the problem is not correctly identified as solely poverty there is for one reason or another a deep resistance in Thai culture to wearing one.Furthermore the OP had the idea of ZONING - this is absolutely NOT the thing to do as it implies there are circumstances where helmets may not be worn with impunity and that in some circumstances it may be OK not to wear a helmut - this is TRIPE! It will also do nothing to encourage the universal acceptance of wearing helmets EVERY TIME one rides a bike.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Deeral

[TAWP]

I don't support helmet laws. It is another step for the government to oppress people. Besides, why legislate to protect a brain that isn't clever enough to protect itself?

If you want people to start using helmets, give them the facts of accidents and injuries.

[Deeral]

I don't support helmet laws. It is another step for the government to oppress people. Besides, why legislate to protect a brain that isn't clever enough to protect itself?

If you want people to start using helmets, give them the facts of accidents and injuries.

"It is another step for the government to oppress people"

You might need therapy for that train of thought

[TAWP]

I don't support helmet laws. It is another step for the government to oppress people. Besides, why legislate to protect a brain that isn't clever enough to protect itself?

If you want people to start using helmets, give them the facts of accidents and injuries.

"It is another step for the government to oppress people"

You might need therapy for that train of thought

You think un-needed and unwanted laws are in the best interest of the people?

[whybother]

I don't support helmet laws. It is another step for the government to oppress people. Besides, why legislate to protect a brain that isn't clever enough to protect itself?

If you want people to start using helmets, give them the facts of accidents and injuries.

"It is another step for the government to oppress people"

You might need therapy for that train of thought

You think un-needed and unwanted laws are in the best interest of the people?

People want free hospitals provided by the government, but they're not prepared to reduce the need to use them.

Maybe the government should tell them that if they don't use a helmet, then they don't get to use the hospital for their head injuries.

[TAWP]

I don't support helmet laws. It is another step for the government to oppress people. Besides, why legislate to protect a brain that isn't clever enough to protect itself?

If you want people to start using helmets, give them the facts of accidents and injuries.

"It is another step for the government to oppress people"

You might need therapy for that train of thought

You think un-needed and unwanted laws are in the best interest of the people?

People want free hospitals provided by the government, but they're not prepared to reduce the need to use them.

Maybe the government should tell them that if they don't use a helmet, then they don't get to use the hospital for their head injuries.

Another good reason to not have socialized medicine...

[TAWP]

Insurance premiums don't have to go up, it is very easy to have a clause saying that the insurance doesn't cover drivers lacking a helmet. Then it is up to a customer to buy an insurance covering non-helmet usage.

Much better than a nanny-government law. A law that does not take into account if accidents DO happen to YOU, but bring in penalties from those that do NOT have accidents, aka the active drivers.

That makes people trying to avoid getting caught, not using a helmet because it is a wise thing to do.

[metisdead]

Posts have been removed from view. There are some valid considerations brought forth, lets not dismiss them.

[johnefallis]

I think just getting the new generation to accept that wearing a helment (no matter how bad it is) is a step in the right direction. As soon as it becomes the norm, it will soon become a game of fashion and status.. the more expensive your helment, the higher on the pecking order... it would work.. wouldn't it?

I suggest NO fines. Then we have no "poverty" issues to deal with. Just impound the bike 1 day for the first offence, 3 days for the second and 1 week for the third. People despise walking, so they soon will all be wearing the best helmet that they can afford!

Problem solved! now if we only had a way to keep your hair pretty...the world would be perfect.

Wow, good post!

ATTENTION NEGATIVE NANCY'S: take notice of what a constructive, reasonable post looks like. A complete lack of whining and bitching about Thailand and trying to compare it to what it is not (and we hope it never will be), the WEST.

@the poster, great suggestions.

Might I suggest that instead of all the would be taxes that would be put in place to make this more like the west by some of the other posters gripes and comments, that they just donate an equal amount of money they clearly would be willing to pay by virtue and force of western style taxes, then when the kids get stopped, they can be given a free helmet once before the bike is taken away as you suggest?

An ugly one of course ;-)

[johnefallis]

You guys bitch about having more then 2 on bikes and helmet quality, you go pay for an extra bike or car and a nice helmet for a poor thai family then. They don't even have mosquetto nets or shutters and any toilets in the NE let alone these luxuarys.

Get real idiots.

Long night?

If you can afford a motorbike for 20k baht (used), you can also afford a helmet for 200 baht. Which, despite being a little piece of plastic and foam, will be way better than nothing.

So poverty is an excuse for not following the law is it??

Most families own helmets, but choose not to wear them. Fairly sure that some of those poor NE families you talk of have enough cash for dads beer as and when he wants it.

Question of priorities. getting smashed or brain smashed in??

If familiies can't afford helmets then clearly there is a need that requires a solution. Perhaps the government could make helmets freely available when a bike is bought then no one has any excuses.

And yet another reasonable comment minus the whining and b!tching that so often engulfs important topics and their discussions. Take notice whiners.

[johnefallis]

I think this forum should be renamed the "old woman winging wanke_rs and wosers forum". Take a look at yourselves!! ... U leave your own over priced and regulated country to come and live in a place where there is some freedom to decide on the level of risk that you r going to live your life with. Most of what I read on this forum is about having more laws and more fines and more restriction of indivuality. Please <deleted> and let natural selection take it course.

Hahaha, well said. My sentiments exactly.

Though I do have to say there are a lot of good comments in this particular post as well.

Edited December 17, 2010 by bonobo
removed dismissive phrase

[johnefallis]

I would like to know how many of the fatalities involvied those wearing the 200B plastic brain-bins. Seriously, what is the point of those things? Wrapping a 50B towel around your head would be safer and quicker to mop up the blood.

Also, i would be interested to know how many of those fatalities involved more than 2 on a bike and riders/passengers who were inebriated. There is a lot more to this than just wearing a 'helmet' (can somebody please define 'helmet' in Thailand.).

Lets be real here. the following laws need to be introduced;

1, ALL passengers on a motorbike need to wear a helmet of a certain standard at all times of each day, regardless of where they live. If you can't afford a helmet, ride a bicycle. (agree that subsidising quality hemets is a tremendous idea and would save the health authority in the long run)

2, Drunk riders will be fined heavily. (Standard roadside sobriety tests could eaily be introduced) and bike impounded.

3, Riders must be a minimum of 16 years old outside of major cities and at least 18 in major cities.

4, Bikes must be serviced at least once a year and a record kept in the bike.

There are a whole host of others that need to be introduced but lets crawl before we can walk, hey.

If they have all that wherever you're from,...maybe just go back?

[Deeral]

I would like to know how many of the fatalities involvied those wearing the 200B plastic brain-bins. Seriously, what is the point of those things? Wrapping a 50B towel around your head would be safer and quicker to mop up the blood.

Also, i would be interested to know how many of those fatalities involved more than 2 on a bike and riders/passengers who were inebriated. There is a lot more to this than just wearing a 'helmet' (can somebody please define 'helmet' in Thailand.).

Lets be real here. the following laws need to be introduced;

1, ALL passengers on a motorbike need to wear a helmet of a certain standard at all times of each day, regardless of where they live. If you can't afford a helmet, ride a bicycle. (agree that subsidising quality hemets is a tremendous idea and would save the health authority in the long run)

2, Drunk riders will be fined heavily. (Standard roadside sobriety tests could eaily be introduced) and bike impounded.

3, Riders must be a minimum of 16 years old outside of major cities and at least 18 in major cities.

4, Bikes must be serviced at least once a year and a record kept in the bike.

There are a whole host of others that need to be introduced but lets crawl before we can walk, hey.

If they have all that wherever you're from,...maybe just go back?

the idea of wearing crash helmets is to reduce HEAD INJURIES - so whether you are drunk or 4 on a bike is not actually relevant - if they were all wearing helmets the amount of head injuries would be lower.

the categories you have referred to - which are only part of the picture - whilst in themselves undoubtedly contributing to road injuries and fatalities are in fact a different matter in relation to crash helmets.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Deeral

[KKK]

You guys bitch about having more then 2 on bikes and helmet quality, you go pay for an extra bike or car and a nice helmet for a poor thai family then. They don't even have mosquetto nets or shutters and any toilets in the NE let alone these luxuarys.

Get real.

If you REALLY loved your kids would you cram so many of them onto your motorbike without helmets? To do so is an act of pure selfishness. Live within your means not the the dreams you aspire to.

[johnefallis]

THere is no argument for not wearing a helmet.It is nothing to do with "nanny" states etc.

It is quite simple

A helmet will save you only from glancing blows - but anyone who has any experience of RTAs will tell you that they are the main cause of death with motorcyclists.

THese deaths or injuries cost YOU and ME money - we pay for the medical bills, the pensions and day care centres - the family on welfare etc with no bread winner. tHese deaths cost the nation millions every year.

What I can't understand is the nationwide resistance to wearing helmets in Thailand - I have never witnessed it elsewhere - even Machismo Spain and Italy agree that a helmet makes sense

Yeah, and body armor would certainly reduce injuries and increase survival rates, especially for those riding in buses, on top of garbage trucks, etc. In fact, we should all have to run around in big fireproof plastic bubbles with air filtration systems, etc.... ?

We should all be forced to take vitamins everyday too, you know, to increase health and reduce disease, for everybody's benefit.

Don't you think?

Just another point of view.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Good quote. Would surprise me if many on here actually understand what it means....

[Deeral]

THere is no argument for not wearing a helmet.It is nothing to do with "nanny" states etc.

It is quite simple

A helmet will save you only from glancing blows - but anyone who has any experience of RTAs will tell you that they are the main cause of death with motorcyclists.

THese deaths or injuries cost YOU and ME money - we pay for the medical bills, the pensions and day care centres - the family on welfare etc with no bread winner. tHese deaths cost the nation millions every year.

What I can't understand is the nationwide resistance to wearing helmets in Thailand - I have never witnessed it elsewhere - even Machismo Spain and Italy agree that a helmet makes sense

Yeah, and body armor would certainly reduce injuries and increase survival rates, especially for those riding in buses, on top of garbage trucks, etc. In fact, we should all have to run around in big fireproof plastic bubbles with air filtration systems, etc.... ?

We should all be forced to take vitamins everyday too, you know, to increase health and reduce disease, for everybody's benefit.

Don't you think?

Just another point of view.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Good quote. Would surprise me if many on here actually understand what it means....

It's not another point of view at all it is a facile statement showing a total disregard for the facts.It's also a misuse of the Franklin quote.

THere have been some pretty stupid posts on this subject by people who simply can't understand the scale of the problem or a so obtuse they refuse to admit to themselves that not wearing a helmet isn't simply a disservice to themselves but EVERYBODY else who is either affected physically financially and emotionally by the resulting unnecessary injures that could so easily be avoided.One can only assume that some of these people already have head injuries which debilitate their cognitive processes.

[johnefallis]

Anoraks

This is Thailand, don't forget to wear your hard hat under coconut trees.

Great photo, Kwasaki. It points out the ridiculousness of the new law.

The main cause for the accidents is the risk takers. I see many responsible bike riders moving slowly along the highway, but I see just as many more young men (without helmets) racing between trucks and cars at high speed. They fly down narrow sois with no idea what is just around the corner. There are more ways to kill yourself on a bike than banging your head on the pavement. I always wear my cheap helmet and just take the chance that it will protect me, but I don't take risks in jumping lights, running red lights or dodging in and out of narrow gaps in traffic at high speed. One tiny error in judgement, or a patch of oil on the road and you are down in front of fast moving vehicles. The mirrors on the small scooters are totally inadequate for good vision on what's happening behind you.

Enforced Helmet Zones seems best to me. Can't get most folks to wear one normally nor expect them too. Preaching from on high doesn't help. Personally I don't like wearing a helmet -fun reduction and its luggage = lose/stolen risk

Yes Ian great photo and agree with you both, in our village I see the kids all piling on top of each other 5 or 6 on one bike having fun.

I was told simply by my policeman friend that you have to take care of motorbike riders when you are in Thailand because in your car you are bigger than them and it's you that can hurt them, especially if it's kids because if you hit them it will be your fault and make sure you honk your horn at them.

I say take care give them a wide berth keep away from them as much as possible and, yes, honk your horn at them.

There's a guy who gets on the bike forum, he has a great saying. " If shit happens, it happens, and there's nowt you can do about it ".

Most people here are certainly missing the point alright, the fact this is Thailand seems to have slip there mind and are trying to bring there own draconian enforcement laws and mind sets of what country they come from into Thailand, I strongly disagree.

If they want to wear a helmet when others don't, fine, if you wear a piece of plastic so you don't get fined, fine, if at times you don't have to wear a helmet, fine. Thai people do what they want, it is not for anyone here to tell them otherwise they are Thai people and you are not.

I only wear a helmet here when I have to, when I started riding motorbikes in England you didn't have to wear helmets but I bought one because guess what !!! you can go faster, just like the helmet wearing motorbike racers I like having the freedom not to wear a helmet, whether there's laws or silly laws.

You had me at "they are Thais, and you are not"!

[joboss]

To all of those well-meaning farangs who want Thailand to be the same as your country...

If Thailand were to become as law-abiding as the country you've left, what would be the point of staying here? IMHO one of the more endearing facets of the Thais is that they choose which laws they obey and which ones they flout. We pathetic farangs are servants to every new law that the greedy politicians put in place to extract more money from us.

Indeed this is the very reason some of us "escape" to the LOS. I for one defend their right to wear a helmet or not, to live or to die by their own actions. That is what has made any country great, not robotic adherence to law, nor efforts to corral, bully and threaten individuals into compliance, however well-meaning those efforts might be.

We need fewer laws not more. Decent people don't need them, and bad people don't obey them.

Long live the defiant spirit of the wonderful Thai people, and shame on us for letting our own countries degenerate to the point where we wish to live elsewhere in order to be free.

Here Here I second that.. Well said

[Deeral]

To all of those well-meaning farangs who want Thailand to be the same as your country...

If Thailand were to become as law-abiding as the country you've left, what would be the point of staying here? IMHO one of the more endearing facets of the Thais is that they choose which laws they obey and which ones they flout. We pathetic farangs are servants to every new law that the greedy politicians put in place to extract more money from us.

Indeed this is the very reason some of us "escape" to the LOS. I for one defend their right to wear a helmet or not, to live or to die by their own actions. That is what has made any country great, not robotic adherence to law, nor efforts to corral, bully and threaten individuals into compliance, however well-meaning those efforts might be.

We need fewer laws not more. Decent people don't need them, and bad people don't obey them.

Long live the defiant spirit of the wonderful Thai people, and shame on us for letting our own countries degenerate to the point where we wish to live elsewhere in order to be free.

Here Here I second that.. Well said

"live or die by their own actions" - what a sad dime-store attitude.If they die they leave dependentsThey cost us too - ambulance, hospital, undertaker whatever - if it isn't our taxes, it is out insurance premiums - and the state ends up paying out to support those dependents either directly or in directly.

"Defiant spirit" - utter nonsense! that is the childish perception of an irresponsible person.the sad thing is that people who espouse this sort of view are a danger to themselves and more importantly others but are too stupid to see that.

[TAWP]

Deeral>> I suggest you try to be responsible for your own life and stop trying to ask the government to control others.

[Bagwan]

I grudgingly accept the view that the wearing of helmets should be optional. With that goes picking up the tab for the end result of their 'independent spirits'.

Scenario - "Not wearing a helmet, eh? So any insurance is invalid, yes? Got any money? At least 100K will be needed. What, no money? OK. Stay there and die". Individual freedom at work. Like it?

Those with such anarchistic views might care to learn that everybody working together makes a more comfortable and rewarding life. Is it likely that a collection of gifted football players will succeed in winning trophies unless they develop an understanding of each other and gel thus creating a team, a force far stronger than the sum of its individual components? I am against all the excesses of 'nanny states'. I was not a fan of wearing a seat belt but I imposed the discipline on myself after watching the TV messages presented by Jimmy Savile all those years ago. Now I feel naked if I am driving and have forgotten to buckle up. Do I feel oppressed? No way. I know it makes sense.

How do those who favour independent and uncaring notions concerning their own behaviour square that with a similar attitude practiced by the phu yais who are obsessed with themselves and the amassing of large amounts of the folding stuff while others suffer. Would they applaud the moron next door who plays what passes for contemporary music at full volume at 4 o'clock in the morning? It was working together and conforming that has taken us out of our caves and allowed man to walk on the moon. I would say that the majority of Thai people are,. for want of a phrase, unsophisticated in their thinking. Sadly, much like children, much must be imposed upon them for their own good.

That said, in this instance those who choose to live outside the pale ignoring all sensible advice should be allowed to do so - and BiB will have to think up another way of collecting baksheesh. Perhaps a better way to reduce all injuries would be for them to clamp down on (and collect from) those who ignore speed restrictions, change lanes dangerously, tailgate, run red lights, cross double yellows and double park. Would not solving the cause of the problem rather than one of the side effects be more sensible? Or would that further rile those self centred autocrats spouting homilies about individual freedoms and not a word about personal responsibility?

Edited December 17, 2010 by Bagwan

[Kwasaki]

Deeral>> I suggest you try to be responsible for your own life and stop trying to ask the government to control others.

+1

[Deeral]

Please don't judge others by your own paranoia - in most democratic societies people ARE the govt - they certainly get the govt they deserve

[TAWP]

Please don't judge others by your own paranoia - in most democratic societies people ARE the govt - they certainly get the govt they deserve

People are NOT the government. That sentiment shows that you lack the understanding of how a modern society in our day and age works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqeSabcSiw

[mufcsamui]

Its easy just let the BIB legally keep 50% OF the fine

[JimsKnight]

And kids riding bikes to school? I didn't realise it was legal to cram 3 kids 12 year olds with no helmets onto bikes.

Once again Thailand misses the point of the problem. The government can insist that their employees or school children wear certain coloured shirts on certain days of the week, but enforcing that people wear helmets to and from their place of work is beyond abilities of persuasion.

Agree - the system is itself at fault. There was an ad campaign in Australia years ago that simply said - "If you have a $10 head wear a $10 helmet - if not - wear a Shoei". This was a good campaign. Helmet laws are for self protection and to ignore it is arrogant and stupidity, the same as the fools with orange shirts and motorbike taxis, who wear a helmet on the back of their heads - and many never even do up the plastic 'brain buckets' they DO wear!

But this will only evolve into more BiB receiving payoffs and thus most likely will help make them fatter but possibly get the right result. So I guess it will work. But as to quality of helmets, none of them would survive a crash test here. Time to introduce standards and ban cheap killers.

But then they can start addressing 4 on a motorbike whose brakes let alone suspension, is 'sus' - even one up! But I do feel for the 'village people' whose only mode of transport is a bike and that is all they can afford but in the city? No way. Especially when the motobikes are being controlled by school kids, underaged, and with no road sense whatsoever.

Here we go, the great helmet debate kicks off once more on tv.

Look, the helmets that are full-face local origin are more than adequate 9 times out of 10.

If you are racing on Burapa Bike Track then maybe you should get one of the overpriced (import fees) and top of the range Shoe / Arai Helmets etc.

For me I wear a full face Thai helmet that's about 75% - 80% as strong as the Japanese and US ones.

A list of helmet types on the link describes the various types of helmet available in Thailand.

http://www.ontheroadthailand.com/Thingstocarry.htm

To those that say the cheapo helmets aren't worth wearing. I suggest you smack your head off the wall a few times, then try the same with a cheap 800 baht special on. I can tell you for nothing which is better

[Deeral]

Please don't judge others by your own paranoia - in most democratic societies people ARE the govt - they certainly get the govt they deserve

People are NOT the government. That sentiment shows that you lack the understanding of how a modern society in our day and age works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqeSabcSiw

" how a modern society in our day and age works." - this shows the standard of English one would expect from the clueless? Is that you?

As for the video - well there you go! If you are the kind of person that is so critically inept to let U-tube rule your life - then I feel sorry for you.I feel very sad at the paucity of intellect that leads people to think that conclusions about the nature of society (or "modern in our day and age??) can be achieved in a 10 minute video - it really shows that some members of society can't differentiate between soundbite and real hardcore debate and information - but if you are as uneducated as you language reveals how would you?

Edited December 17, 2010 by Deeral

[TAWP]

" how a modern society in our day and age works." - this shows the standard of English one would expect from the clueless? Is that you?

As for the video - well there you go! If you are the kind of person that is so critically inept to let U-tube rule your life - then I feel sorry for you.I feel very sad at the paucity of intellect that leads people to think that conclusions about the nature of society (or "modern in our day and age??) can be achieved in a 10 minute video - it really shows that some members of society can't differentiate between soundbite and real hardcore debate and information - but if you are as uneducated as you language reveals how would you?

Thank you for proving what kind of person you are. If you want we can switch to any of 5 other languages?

And no, the video isn't of me. That is an American.

[JimsKnight]

How do those who favour independent and uncaring notions concerning their own behaviour square that with a similar attitude practiced by the phu yais who are obsessed with themselves and the amassing of large amounts of the folding stuff while others suffer. Would they applaud the moron next door who plays what passes for contemporary music at full volume at 4 o'clock in the morning? It was working together and conforming that has taken us out of our caves and allowed man to walk on the moon. I would say that the majority of Thai people are,. for want of a phrase, unsophisticated in their thinking. Sadly, much like children, much must be imposed upon them for their own good. 

Or would that further rile those self centred autocrats spouting homilies about individual freedoms and not a word about personal responsibility?

  

Jeez, you sound like the poster child for an George Orwells 1984 the way you are carrying on.

Personal responsibility starts with the individual NOT with an over-bearing government taking away peoples rights.

If you want it like home, GO HOME!

Live and let live on this one, this is Thailand (Thank god!)

Edited December 17, 2010 by JimsKnight

[selftaopath]

I was under the impression there were helmet laws already... enforcement, or lack thereof, is the problem...

Lack of Sanctions (LOS)

Amusing Thailand !!!