Who Cares About The Dalai Lama?

[DrBooze]

I've been reading that everything in your life is dictated by your karma. When you die it's because your karmic gas tank just ran out. The kind of life you lead depends on your actions in your previous life.

This sounded fine at first but after thinking about it - it's got some crazy implications.

For example, someone like George Bush must have been a pretty decent bloke in a previous existence for being born into a family with such wealth and power. And kids who die in bomb attacks in Iraq must have made some bad karmic choices somewhere along the line.

If Bush was so good, why does he oversee so much death? Or is he keeping his hands clean, karmically speaking, by not doing any actual killing himself?

I also heard that Hitler's actions were determined by 'bad habits' he had developed in previous lives. If so, how could he have become a human in the first place? Shouldn't he have been born as one of things at the bottom of the ocean? What about the people he killed - did their karmic gas tanks just run out?

And the Dalai Lama... I don't doubt that he's a great man but if the Communists want to exile him and occupy his country, isn't it his own fault? After all, it's just his karma balancing itself out.

I thought the Dhamma was supposed to ease suffering but this is giving me a real headache. Any comments would really be appreciated.

Edited August 22, 2005 by DrBooze

[khall64au]

Not too clear on the ol' karma myself.... but if you ever get to shake the hand of the Dalai Lama you may change your mind on why he was spared by the Communists. Karmically speaking...

[Mr. Farang]

Karma, or gamma in Thai, or simply "gam" is an relatively easy concept to grasp. Kamma is simply the the conditioned nama-rupa (mind-body) based on cause-and-effect. Some refer to this "gam" as "sticky" as in "what has stuck with you" because of attachment.

Therefore, it follows that without attachment, there is no "sticky" and therefore, no "gam".

The concept that is mentioned in the post that says

When you die it's because your karmic gas tank just ran out.

is incongruent from the Thervada perspective as every thought, word, deed, and interaction with the world based on attachment creates "gam" and this "gam" exists both inside your mind-body and outside, in the mind-bodies of others (because you are not an isolated being in a dark cave without social contact).

Hence, from the Thervada perspective, your children, friends, associates, indeed everyone you come in "contact" with will received something "sticky" ("gamma") from you.

Kamma (Theravada school) is simply cause-and-effect, attachment to the cycle of cause-and-effect ("sticky") and the conditioning of this causality to mind-body.

For the Theravada student, it is best to avoid the distraction of trying to understand the myriad causal effects in the world, and focus on your individual path, following the Eight Fold Path. Concern and speculation about others kamma (like the posters specualation on GWB) is not an element of following the Eight Fold Path, to be perfectly frank - as the Eight Fold Path is about the causality of one's own mind-body and not the mind-body causality of others.

I have very good story about my days in a Thai temple and the reaction of the senior (father) Abbot to my interest in discussing the kamma (behavior) of others Monks in the Temple. ..... who basically told me that I should not spend one second of my time pondering others behaviour but instead, should spend my precious world-time on self-observation and understanding of my own situation-kamma.

This senior Thervada Monk was absolutely right, based on the Thervada perspective.

[cdnvic]

I've taken this one on in my blog.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...owblog&mid=7151

Regarding the Dali Lama, as a Zen buddhist I find the whole idea of lamaism absurd, however I can hardly blame the Dali Lama himself for that. Since he was a baby people have been telling him he's the chosen one, what else is he to believe?

As for the fall of Tibet, two of the cornerstones of buddhism are that all things are impermanent, and the freeing of oneself from attachments, and desires. I think he should use Tibet as an example of impermanence and urge his followers to free themselves from their attachment to it. This isn't a very politicly correct thing to say, but it is the very core of most buddhist thought if you can seperate politics from spirituality.

As a person however, I greatly respect the Dali Lama for his message of peace, and the humility he shows despite his fame and spiritual presence. I may disagree with him on spiritual points, but still believe that he truely believes in what he speaks of, and is doing what he thinks to be what's best for all.

cv

[DrBooze]

The concept that is mentioned in the post  that says

When you die it's because your karmic gas tank just ran out.

is incongruent from the Thervada perspective

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of my info has come from lectures I've downloaded by Western monks of the Tibetan tradition, which might explain the incongruity.

One of these lectures was talking about Hitler, which got me into the political implications of this karma idea. And I keep hearing about the Dalai Lama in these lectures so I was wondering about how it would apply to his situation.

But I guess my point would be... If I smoke 3 packs of cigarettes everyday and die of at age 50 - is this caused by karma or lung cancer?

I don't think these lectures are helping me out so much. Maybe I'll check out some other approaches.

Anyway, thanks for all the helpful comments so far. I'm sure you'll be rewarded for it.

[camerata]

I don't think these lectures are helping me out so much.  Maybe I'll check out some other approaches.

Try listening to Thanissaro Bhikkhu's talk on Karma and Western Misunderstanding at http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/ThanissaroBhikkhu.html or, for a very detailed and rational explanation, read Kamma in the Buddha's Teaching by P. A. Payutto.

[Abandon]

Karma is one of those that is regularly picked up on by westerners, in a way that it was not thought about by Buddhism. The Theravada scriptures only mention karma in the sense of the future, and never come from the angle of our current position being deserved somehow.

That is the worst misunderstanding about karma in my opinion, that whatever circumstance we are in is somehow deserved. And also that every little thing that happens is due to karma ... this was not the way the Buddha was teaching. (many of the scriptural commentaries do add in karma 'stories' to try and explain things, but it is not how the Buddha himself was teaching)

In India at the time there was the question that if one kills and hurts people, would there be any consequence ..... hence the Buddha emphasised that there is consequence, pointing to the way it darkens the mind; as contrasted with giving, morality, and meditation which brighten the mind and bring it to peace, and help with attaining to Enlightenment.

In the respect of 'deserving' our position, I find the Christian appraoch more satisfying (and not incompatible with Buddhism) in that we have clear free choice, and that we are quickly fogiven our sins.

Karma itself is more about habits that we make, and their effect on our character.

[cdnvic]

Good to see you back Pandit.

cv

[Abandon]

Good to see you back Pandit. 

cv

Cheers I won't be back in Thailand until march next year, but I did get a radio transceiver set up out here in the Bush to give me internet. So will be able to make occasional flying visits to TV.

[Plus]

According to vedic tradition Karma is a law of cause and effect. Usually we talk about it in terms of previous lives and reincarnation but in broader view karma is what science is all about - how the whole world works. It's a universal concept and means that nothing happens without a reason. In yet broader view karma encompasses the workings of mind, intellegence, emotions etc. which are considered "subtle" matter. Ultimately everything is predetermined - the wars, famine and prosperity, the weather tomorrow and our moods, which team will win the next game, how we will react to it and how we will place our next bets.

We focus on and highlight only some aspects of karma for practical reasons - the whole system is incomprehensible.

This concept is not buddhist, it probably shouldn't be discussed here at all.

[khunlungphudhu]

A little late in the day for my two pennorth really, but better late than never!

I appreciate where 'plus' is comming from, and I am not out to pick arguements with anyone, but, like the OP, I initially found these laws mind boggling, and soon came close to giving up on it all, finding just too many words, too many opinions, and far too many thesis.

I prefer to envision life as an ocean. I am the ship that passes over it. Everything that passes either over or through that ocean is going to cause a wake, or make some kind of disturbance within that ocean.

The wake is my karma, and turmoil may well follow, and I cannot pass without causing any disturbance, so the amount of disturbance is directly related to the manner in which I travel the ocean, or life.

Moving quietly and considerately, only minor disturbance is caused, while barging ahead at full tilt will make a wake that will turn life upside down for myself and others well out of sight. Add to this the fact that sooner or later, you will have to slow down or stop, you have the problem of the following turmoil overtaking you.

This, to my mind, is karma. Forget 'previous lives', it is now too late to do anything about them! Concentrate on what you are doing now, what you plan on doing in a moment or two, how will it affect yourself? those near you, dear to you, or just simply those living the same life!

Over simplified? Quite probably is, and is very incomplete, but we all have to start somewhere.

Peter.

[Mr. Farang]

According to vedic tradition Karma is a law of cause and effect. Usually we talk about it in terms of previous lives and reincarnation but in broader view karma is what science is all about - how the whole world works. It's a universal concept and means that nothing happens without a reason. In yet broader view karma encompasses the workings of mind, intellegence, emotions etc. which are considered "subtle" matter. Ultimately everything is predetermined - the wars, famine and prosperity,  the weather tomorrow and our moods, which team will win the next game, how we will react to it and how we will place our next bets.

We focus on and highlight only some aspects of karma for practical reasons - the whole system is incomprehensible.

This concept is not buddhist, it probably shouldn't be discussed here at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent thoughts Plus!

Causality and Kamma - "In The Large" are so incomprehensible to all us mere mortals that, for laypeople - simply work to follow the Eight Fold Path - and "When in Doubt" simply "Tam Boon" ( Make Merit - Do Good ) and always "Try Not to Get Angry (Easily)" "Honor Your Parents and (Indeed) All Elderly People" -- "Speak Kindly and Gently" ... and within these easily "doable" things, which are comprehensible and obtainable with practice, one can positively condition ones own Kamma and that, in turn, conditions the Kamma of the world.

Naturally, there is more "mental work" to do along the Eight Fold Path, and one can "go deep" into the path if one chooses - but when things seem complex and overwhelming, simply go back to the basics of "Right Speech" "Right Mindfulness" "Right Action" .... up and down the Eight Fold Path to Enlightenment, one moment, one step, one breath at-a-time.

Moment-to-Moment, Mindful of Your Namma-Rupa (Mind-Body).

[Abandon]

Honor Your Parents

I have big trouble with that one. It is an Indian concept about Duty, but with the kind of parents many of us have, it is nonsense.

I recently told my parents to @#!$ off for the rest of their lives - and they went teary eyed around people I know saying how they are soooo good to try and stir up trouble for me. So my friends and collegues all brought up Buddhism - that is not the way to treat your parents in Buddhism - call yourself a Buddhist - etc... Well I can do that because I know what my parents have done!

[middlepath]

"who basically told me that I should not spend one second of my time pondering others behaviour but instead, should spend my precious world-time on self-observation and understanding of my own situation-kamma."

This way we do not take the whole world on our shoulders. These are very comforting thoughts Mr Farang and thank you.

[cdnvic]

That is not buddhism, only the translation of the writer's words. One of the most attractive features of buddhism is the lack of "Thou shalt not..."

Pursue your own way.

cv

Honor Your Parents

I have big trouble with that one. It is an Indian concept about Duty, but with the kind of parents many of us have, it is nonsense.

I recently told my parents to @#!$ off for the rest of their lives - and they went teary eyed around people I know saying how they are soooo good to try and stir up trouble for me. So my friends and collegues all brought up Buddhism - that is not the way to treat your parents in Buddhism - call yourself a Buddhist - etc... Well I can do that because I know what my parents have done!

[Mr. Farang]

Honor Your Parents

I have big trouble with that one. It is an Indian concept about Duty, but with the kind of parents many of us have, it is nonsense.

I recently told my parents to @#!$ off for the rest of their lives - and they went teary eyed around people I know saying how they are soooo good to try and stir up trouble for me. So my friends and collegues all brought up Buddhism - that is not the way to treat your parents in Buddhism - call yourself a Buddhist - etc... Well I can do that because I know what my parents have done!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sorry to hear that your Kamma is so conditioned that you cannot honor your parents. You are the only person I know who has ever made a statement like the one you made. Everyone I know (everyone, 100% of the people) honor their parents, Farang, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian and Thai (and more).

I am very sorry to hear your sad life and wish you the best of luck.

[chownah]

Honor Your Parents

I have big trouble with that one. It is an Indian concept about Duty, but with the kind of parents many of us have, it is nonsense.

I recently told my parents to @#!$ off for the rest of their lives - and they went teary eyed around people I know saying how they are soooo good to try and stir up trouble for me. So my friends and collegues all brought up Buddhism - that is not the way to treat your parents in Buddhism - call yourself a Buddhist - etc... Well I can do that because I know what my parents have done!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sorry to hear that your Kamma is so conditioned that you cannot honor your parents. You are the only person I know who has ever made a statement like the one you made. Everyone I know (everyone, 100% of the people) honor their parents, Farang, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian and Thai (and more).

I am very sorry to hear your sad life and wish you the best of luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that whether you honor your parents or are incapable of honoring your parents it is just two sides of the karmic coin...both are just suffering and illusion..something to be transcended, something that causes rebirth, something that is better dropped altogether......no need to be sorry or sad about this in either case.

Edited September 5, 2005 by chownah

[cdnvic]

I am sorry to hear that your Kamma is so conditioned that you cannot honor your parents.  You are the only person I know who has ever made a statement like the one you made.  Everyone I know (everyone, 100% of the people) honor their parents, Farang, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian and Thai (and more).

I am very sorry to hear your sad life and wish you the best of luck.

You have been fortunate to know only people with good parents. Or more likely, there is a truth being hidden from you.

One aspect of kharma is that suffering of the individual is spread to those they interact with as the pain affects their moods, and clouds their judgement.

Remove the source of that pain and the suffering decreases, lessening the burden on all around.

"Honor your parents" is good advice, but it must be balanced by "Be honorable parents"

cv

[Mr. Farang]

You have been fortunate to know only people with good parents. Or more likely, there is a truth being hidden from you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not necessary to honor our parents only when they 'are good'... according to Theravada Buddhist tradition, we honor them because they are our parents, good or bad.

As far as "truth being hidden" - that statement has little do to with the Buddhist thought to "honor parents"... as the Buddha taught to "honor your parents".... he did not say "honor only your good parents."

The reason for this is very fundamental to Buddhist thought and what the Buddha taught.

I do agree that I am lucky and fortunate, for many reasons, and most of my good fortuate comes from years of Dharma study in the US and Thailand, living as both a novice and a monk, and spending much time with senior Theravada monks from both Thailand and India. Yes, this life has been very good to me and I honor my parents, not judging if they are "good" or "bad"... as they are my parents.

Yes, I feel both compassion and sadness for those who do not or cannot honor their parents.

[cdnvic]

The reason for this is very fundamental to Buddhist thought and what the Buddha taught.

I disagree that is is fundamental to buddhist thought. Even Gautama Buddha's words are only legend as nothing was written down until centuries after his death. There have been many many writers since who have expanded on the original theories. Retreating to orthodoxy, in my opinion is a path to limited fulfillment as it limits one to the path followed by others. We all have unique circumstances, and every different circumstance dictates a different path to enlightenment.

Ancient writings have their place, but it's in the world around you where you will find the answers. Those who wrote the various buddhist writings that the orthodoxy quote today were not prophets appointed by some higher being, they were just people who opened their minds and looked for a path to enlightenment.

You can no sooner attain enlightenment by following the writings in a book, than you could travel from Bangkok to Surin by walking on a map.

Buddhist thought is inside all buddhists, not just in old books.

cv

[Mr. Farang]

The reason for this is very fundamental to Buddhist thought and what the Buddha taught.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree that is is fundamental to buddhist thought. Even Gautama Buddha's words are only legend as nothing was written down until centuries after his death. There have been many many writers since who have expanded on the original theories. Retreating to orthodoxy, in my opinion is a path to limited fulfillment as it limits one to the path followed by others. We all have unique circumstances, and every different circumstance dictates a different path to enlightenment.

Ancient writings have their place, but it's in the world around you where you will find the answers. Those who wrote the various buddhist writings that the orthodoxy quote today were not prophets appointed by some higher being, they were just people who opened their minds and looked for a path to enlightenment.

You can no sooner attain enlightenment by following the writings in a book, than you could travel from Bangkok to Surin by walking on a map.

Buddhist thought is inside all buddhists, not just in old books.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are certainly free to believe that the Buddha taught people to believe that they should not honor their parents if they are not good, in the eyes of the child. However, I can tell you that every monk I have practiced with and every teaching of the Buddha I have read is not congruent with your words - so it is my "duty" to disagree (and we can agree to disagree)

However, I kindly promise you that you will never reach enlightenment if you cannot and do not honor your parents. It is simply not possible. The Buddha greatly honored his parents - even when he disagreed with them.

Certainly, you are free to believe and practice as your Kamma guides you.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[Mr. Farang]

The reason for this is very fundamental to Buddhist thought and what the Buddha taught.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree that is is fundamental to buddhist thought.

(snip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basic Buddhism from BuddhaNet - Kamma (Karma) and Parents

What is the cause, what is the reason, O Lord," questioned he, "that we find amongst mankind the short-lived and long-lived, the healthy and the diseased, the ugly and beautiful, those lacking influence and the powerful, the poor and the rich, the low-born and the high-born, and the ignorant and the wise?"

The Buddha’s reply was:

"All living beings have actions (Karma) as their own, their inheritance, their congenital cause, their kinsman, their refuge. It is Karma that differentiates beings into low and high states."

He then explained the cause of such differences in accordance with the law of cause and effect.

Certainly we are born with hereditary characteristics. At the same time we possess certain innate abilities that science cannot adequately account for. To our parents we are indebted for the gross sperm and ovum that form the nucleus of this so-called being. They remain dormant within each parent until this potential germinal compound is vitalised by the karmic energy needed for the production of the foetus. Karma is therefore the indispensable conceptive cause of this being.

The accumulated karmic tendencies, inherited in the course of previous lives, at times play a far greater role than the hereditary parental cells and genes in the formation of both physical and mental characteristics.

The Buddha, for instance, inherited, like every other person, the reproductive cells and genes from his parents. But physically, morally and intellectually there was none comparable to him in his long line of Royal ancestors. In the Buddha’s own words, he belonged not to the Royal lineage, but to that of the Aryan Buddhas. He was certainly a superman, an extraordinary creation of his own Karma.

[chownah]

The reason for this is very fundamental to Buddhist thought and what the Buddha taught.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree that is is fundamental to buddhist thought. Even Gautama Buddha's words are only legend as nothing was written down until centuries after his death. There have been many many writers since who have expanded on the original theories. Retreating to orthodoxy, in my opinion is a path to limited fulfillment as it limits one to the path followed by others. We all have unique circumstances, and every different circumstance dictates a different path to enlightenment.

Ancient writings have their place, but it's in the world around you where you will find the answers. Those who wrote the various buddhist writings that the orthodoxy quote today were not prophets appointed by some higher being, they were just people who opened their minds and looked for a path to enlightenment.

You can no sooner attain enlightenment by following the writings in a book, than you could travel from Bangkok to Surin by walking on a map.

Buddhist thought is inside all buddhists, not just in old books.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are certainly free to believe that the Buddha taught people to believe that they should not honor their parents if they are not good, in the eyes of the child. However, I can tell you that every monk I have practiced with and every teaching of the Buddha I have read is not congruent with your words - so it is my "duty" to disagree (and we can agree to disagree)

However, I kindly promise you that you will never reach enlightenment if you cannot and do not honor your parents. It is simply not possible. The Buddha greatly honored his parents - even when he disagreed with them.

Certainly, you are free to believe and practice as your Kamma guides you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Promises, Promises!!! How many promises have been made to me in my life and how many promises have been broken?

I'm wondering what the Buddha meant when he instructed to honor our parents. When we think of our parents the thoughts that come to our mind, the images and ideas, are products of our suffering and delusion. They are the products of our self-hood and our parents self-hood....the same self-hood that causes us suffering and rebirth...the self-hood that is to be dismantled. I find it hard to believe that the Buddha actually meant that we should honor this source of suffering and rebirth. My opinion is that the Buddha considers that honoring our parents means to honor the causal powers of our pasts since they have given rise to our being...and in our suffering and delusion the most immediate symbol of the causation which resulted in us is our parents. When we go to a temple and pay homage to the Buddha image, are we honoring the stone that the image was made from? the workers who excavated the stone? the artisans who carved the stone? No, and likewise in honoring our parents we are not honoring the putrid bag of bones that makes their body nor are we honoring our shared suffering and delusion.

Edited September 6, 2005 by chownah

[Mr. Farang]

All Theravada Buddhists honor their parents. This respect to ones father and mother is not unique to Buddhism, however:

"Show honor to your parents and pay homage to them. This will cause blessings to descend upon you from the clouds of the bounty of your Lord, the Exalted, the Great." - Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah in the Family Life compilation, pp. 386-38

Those who wish to be born in [the Pure Land]of Buddha... should act filially towards their parents and support them, and should serve and respect their teachers and elders. - Buddhism, Meditation on Buddha Amitayus 27

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you. -  Christianity & Judaism, Exodus 20.12

The gentleman works upon the trunk. When that is firmly set up, the Way grows. And surely proper behavior towards parents and elder brothers is the trunk of Goodness. - Confucianism, Analects 1.2

Now filial piety is the root of all virtue, and the stem out of which grows all moral teaching... Our    bodies--to every hair and bit of skin--are received by us from our parents, and we must not presume  to injure or wound them: this is the beginning of filial piety. When we have established our character  by the practice of the filial course, so as to make our name famous in future ages, and thereby  glorify our parents: this is the end of filial piety. It commences with the service of parents; it proceeds  to the service of the ruler; it is completed by the establishment of [good] character. - Confucianism. Classic on Filial Piety 1

Do not neglect the works due to the gods and the fathers!  Let your mother be to you like unto a god! Let your father be to you like unto a god! -Hinduism, aittiriyaka Upanishad 1.11.2

Thy Lord has decreed... that you be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in your lifetime, do not say to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honor. And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say, "My Lord! bestow on them Thy mercy even as they cherished me in childhood." -Islam, Qur'an 17.23

One companion asked, "O Apostle of God! Who is the person worthiest of my consideration?" He replied, "Your mother." He asked again, "And second to my mother?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The companion insisted, "And then?" The Messenger of God said, "After your mother, your father." - Islam. Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim

There are three partners in man, God, father, and mother. When a man honors his father and mother, God says, "I regard it as though I had dwelt among them and they had honored me." - Judaism, Talmud, Kiddushin 30b

Do not despise the breath of your fathers, But draw it into your body. That our roads may reach to where the life-giving road of our sun father comes out, That, clasping one another tight, Holding one another fast, We may finish our roads together; That this may be, I add to your breath now. To this end: May my father bless you with life; May your road reach to Dawn Lake, May your road be fulfilled. - Native American, Zuni Prayer

Attend strictly to the commands of your parents and the instructions of your teachers. Serve your leader with diligence; be upright of heart; eschew falsehood; and be diligent in study; that you may conform to the wishes of the heavenly spirit. - Shinto, Oracle of Temmangu

Son, why do you quarrel with your father, Due to him you have grown to this age? It is a sin to argue with him. -  Sikhism, Adi Granth, Sarang, M.4, p. 1200

[Kido]

The Great Buddha does not only explained things which we can see but also things that beyong our knowledge :

People like Bush(America),Chairman Mao(China), Hirohito(Japan),Hitler(Germany),

Poipot(Cambodia),Saddam(Iraq)etc. Why if we kill a person we will sentence to death and the names above killed thousand of people and some still admired as national hero?

Answer:

These people that mention came from higher rank of devil , which Buddha called it "Asura"(Satan) in their previous lives these kind of people make a great contribution to mankind,religion and merit but only outside not from inner soul.

As we can see today in newspaper today people making donation with a big cheque.

With all thier merits accumulate ,God wil repay these people to reborn as a powerful leader but evil a heart inside.

Thier won't be reborn in under ocean but in other side of dark world.

We don't doubt about Karma but more we understand it the more our inner knowledge explore to beyong this universe.

[robitusson]

I've taken this one on in my blog.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...owblog&mid=7151

Regarding the Dali Lama, as a Zen buddhist I find the whole idea of lamaism absurd, however I can hardly blame the Dali Lama himself for that. Since he was a baby people have been telling him he's the chosen one, what else is he to believe?

As for the fall of Tibet, two of the cornerstones of buddhism are that all things are impermanent, and the freeing of oneself from attachments, and desires. I think he should use Tibet as an example of impermanence and urge his followers to free themselves from their attachment to it. This isn't a very politicly correct thing to say, but it is the very core of most buddhist thought if you can seperate politics from spirituality.

As a person however, I greatly respect the Dali Lama for his message of peace, and the humility he shows despite his fame and spiritual presence. I may disagree with him on spiritual points, but still believe that he truely believes in what he speaks of, and is doing what he thinks to be what's best for all.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His Holiness the Dalai Lama was the temporal leader of Tibet as well as the spiritual leader and as such he was responsible for ALL the people of Tibet, both Buddhists and non-Buddhists. Giving up attatchment to things doesn't mean passive acceptance of malevolant invading forces anyway. You could also argue that the Chinese occupation is an example of impermanence and see it as a respite in the Lama tradition that stretches back for all these years. His Holiness is not there to fulfill our ideas of what we think Lamas or spiritual leaders should and

shouldn't be.

[thai3]

The first time I saw his holiness was on TV in Dec 1973, I was very disappointed. Having been praticing meditation (hindu) for a year I had read quite a bit about him and those mystical books like book of the dead, way of the white clouds etc. So was eagerly looking foward to seeing what he had to say.

It was quite a long interview but he was mostly chuckling away and going on about mending watches and trivial things, I thought he was an idiot.

Now I had not really experienced anything much meditation wise but after seeing him on the TV it was just the most amazing experience of the type that I have ever had. I had not been drinking or smoking and it could not have been some sort of emotional response to seeing him as I had a negative reaction to that. I still think it was amazing all these years later. Difficult to describe but it was like falling into a vastness surrounded by light and strange tinkling music, went on for some minutes and also the next night but much less so. Laugh if you like but it was real. Since then I have always thought he's the real deal-peter