Thai Alcoholics

[Bluetongue]

I have a brother in law who drinks as much lao khao as he can get his hands on. I am talking up to 4 of the 50 baht bottles per day. Mostly he could not afford that but I have seen a few occasions now when he gets on that amount for a few days. I mean we might all work on picking and selling the corn crop over about a week during which time he is working hard and the owners of the various paddocks dont say no to him when he asks for a bottle or 2 as the sum gets deducted from his wages. Either that or a wedding might run into a funeral might run into a go to monk all of which offer him opportunities for free boozing. it seems to me that it doesn't affect him for about 3 days then he gets really loud,, smelly and noticeably drunk and is quite obnoxious then he comes down for a period of long sleeps and not much activity. We found him passed out on the ground not so long ago (not because of booze), the Thai Doctor said his blood pressure was 200 over something. He doesn't eat very much, is skinny as a rake. I quite like the guy as he is clever, outgoing and helpful most of the time and there but for the grace of Buddha go I.

So has anybody ever helped one of these guys, I mean I can stay out of it as I now do, the odd discussion I have had with him invariably results in him averring that the reason he is sick is not enough booze where I have tried to steer in the opposite direction, just thought there might be an off chance. His wife is completely unsupportive, no one here recognises alcoholism as an illness so is that the end of it? How long does he have he is 40 plus.

[Tywais]

How long does he have he is 40 plus.

He is in danger obviously and good for you to look into helping him. I remember seeing on Thai TV sometime ago about a rigid program at a Thai wat to help for these situations. Perhaps someone knows the name. Besides the high BP the following stats are not good for his case plus the possibility of cirrhosis.

The estimated incidence of primary liver cancer in Thailand is very high, Liver cancer is the leading cancer in males and third in frequency in females. There is a very marked regional variation, with the highest incidence in the northeast, the age - standardized incidence rate of liver cancer in Khon Kaen is highest in the world.

pubmed

Possible risk factors and causes of liver cancer (and bile duct cancer) include :

1) Hepatitis B infection

2) Hepatitis C infection

3) Alcohol Overconsumption, Cirrhosis

4) Aflatoxin B1 (a mold) contaminated food

5) Liver Fluke parasite infection (particularly in Northeastern Thailand)

Source

The reason I focused on the liver cancer as that is how my wife's father died.

[ThaiPauly]

A sad and all to familiar tale here in LOS.

You are right in saying that Thais do not regard alcoholism as an illness and the death rates here from it are unfortunatley very high, many men succumbing in their early forties.

Where are you based?, I ask because there is a treatment centre close to Chiang Mai that offers a one month detox programme.

[Bluetongue]

Thanks both of you and sorry to hear about your wife's father Tywais. I got another private message which indicated that he probably wouldn't face up to his problem until he reached rock bottom, which is probably right, unfortunately I dont know what rock bottom is here, its easier to identify back in the "west" I think. I have run into many drunks around the traps here over my times here so far including some that are visibly and tangibly much worse except I dont recall seeing anyone consuming the amounts that BIL does.

No Thaipauly I am way down east near the border with Cambodia in Chantaburi, but I will make some enquiries at the Wat next time I go. I wont bother asking the local one but there is one that seems to be in "charge" of all the local ones I will ask there.

Otherwise I will continue my subtle and not so subtle efforts here, things calmed down for a few days but he is back on it again now due to a round of social events.

[sbk]

I don't know that they can hit rock bottom as their families always enable their addiction. Be it gambling (my bro-in-law) or drugs or alcoholism.

I had a cousin-in-law who drank himself to death, ended up bloating up (kidney failure maybe, cirrhosis of the liver? no idea) and dying shortly after that. He couldn't have been more than 50. But then I also had a cousin in law who was on the same sad slippery slope and managed to get himself off of it. Sadly, he died in a motorbike accident a couple of years later.

I am sorry I don't know that you can help, given Thai attitudes towards addiction, best you can do is try, really.

[tc101]

I don't know that they can hit rock bottom as their families always enable their addiction. Be it gambling (my bro-in-law) or drugs or alcoholism.

I had a cousin-in-law who drank himself to death, ended up bloating up (kidney failure maybe, cirrhosis of the liver? no idea) and dying shortly after that. He couldn't have been more than 50. But then I also had a cousin in law who was on the same sad slippery slope and managed to get himself off of it. Sadly, he died in a motorbike accident a couple of years later.

I am sorry I don't know that you can help, given Thai attitudes towards addiction, best you can do is try, really.

[tc101]

I have been involved with alcoholism treatment for over 20 years. It is very rare to talk someone into quitting or going into treatment. The alcoholic/addict has to hit bottom and decide to seek help on their own. More often they die before this happens.

Intervention sometimes works. Read this

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa100897.htm

Then do a google on: intervention alcoholism

Good luck.

[Credo]

The very best of luck. I don't think there is a lot you can do, but keep an eye on him and try not beat yourself up. Alcoholics are cunning people and are usually one step of anyone trying to intervene.

I have a farang friend who is in his early 30's and a serious alcoholic. He's brilliant and has a Ph.D along with an excellent career in the west. He's bright enough that this was done in the haze of alcoholism. God only knows what he could do if he ever sobered up. He gave it all up and moved back to Thailand. In the west, he would not be allowed to continue down his current path. Employers will intervene, friends will intervene, family will intervene. Then there is the long arm of the law and DUI that gets most people headed toward sobriety.

I have talked to him about his alcoholism and he admits he is an alcoholic, but he will do nothing about it. I say nothing any longer to him, but it's painful to watch people circling the drain of life.

One day I suspect I'll get a phone call that won't be so pleasant.

By the way, if your relative ends up in the hospital, do let the Dr.'s know about his drinking. He is likely to have a severe reaction if he has an accident or anything and starts going through withdrawal.

[ding]

I've been told AA wouldn't work with Thais - too much loss of face, family shame, admitting where you're wrong. Part of AA is the old-timers calling BS on the newcomers self-deception. That probably wont work in Thailand.

I'm curious if there will ever be a thriving Thai version of AA in Thailand - or maybe there is. Please tell me if so. I have a Thai Big Book and a Thai 12x12 was in the process of translation a few years back. Is it done?

I've seen Thais in meetings but they speak English and are accustomed to farang ways. My wife is still surprised at the stories I am willing to tell about myself. "People just say-out like this?"

Yup, it works.

[Bluetongue]

I am pretty sure the Doctors know, but dont want to know. I mean when he went to the quack after his collapse they gave him some meds and sent him home. As often seems to be that everyone pretty much knows everyone else's business, this would be no different. No I'm not beating myself up over it. I hear family members gossiping and complaining about it, but will then turn around and buy it for him if they want him to do something. And yes he is very sneaky he pours the clear whisky into a coke bottle and pretends that it is water, if he has obtained the whisky from some source he does not want to disclose. I mean to say though you can smell him from 3 yards after a day of that. Thanks all I'll post an update.

[JimsKnight]

Let is be man, it's his life, if he chooses to live that way let him do it.

All this sticking-noses into the Thais business is something like a small scale UN mentality.

[sbk]

Well, if you care for someone or if someone you love cares for them its quite painful to watch (and the fallout from addictive behavior can and usually ends up with more than just the addict in trouble) and has nothing to do with UN mentality and everything to do with compassion and concern.

[ding]

Well, if you care for someone or if someone you love cares for them its quite painful to watch (and the fallout from addictive behavior can and usually ends up with more than just the addict in trouble) and has nothing to do with UN mentality and everything to do with compassion and concern.

Yeah I go with your philosophy on this. I like to not butt-in on other people's lives generally. But when someone is suffering and part of my life - I will put out my hand if I think I can help somehow. Usually all I can hope for is to plant a seed and that's enough.

They say that the average alcoholic hurts at least 7 other people. I agree with that too.

[Bluetongue]

Let is be man, it's his life, if he chooses to live that way let him do it.

All this sticking-noses into the Thais business is something like a small scale UN mentality.

Jim, around here I've noticed that pretty much everyone has an opinion on everyone else's business, I'm not sticking my nose in, its just distressing when you see someone, a family member, whom is quite likeable passed out on the ground not 20 metres from where you live. This kind of makes it other peoples business in my humble opinion, not enough to don a blue helmet and go charging about but enough to want to be able to subtly help if possible, hence asking on here if anyone had any ideas. He doesn't mind, just as I dont mind if he calls me fat.

Anyway I drove him to a "job interview", but without any other interference from me he has held down the job for a couple of weeks, enabling him to drink a lot, his demeanour is deteriorating and I am expecting something to happen, dont know what.

[ThaiPauly]

Have you considered trying to get him to go to Wat Thamkrabok near Lopburi.

They have a high success rate with getting people off drugs and alholhol.

It's predominantly Thai's that go there, but there is a forum member Garro, from Ireland who went, and he has been sober ever since, ( He won't mind be posting this as he has written a book on his experiences there)

It's nothing to do with aa and there is no follow up courses or meetings that have to be attended, its much more to do with spirituality and taking the sacred Sangha vow. If you go out and drink or drug after you have been in..you can never return.

The website is www.thamkrabok-monastary.com

It may well be the answer for him

Good luck,

[ding]

I am pretty sure the Doctors know, but dont want to know. I mean when he went to the quack after his collapse they gave him some meds and sent him home. As often seems to be that everyone pretty much knows everyone else's business, this would be no different. No I'm not beating myself up over it. I hear family members gossiping and complaining about it, but will then turn around and buy it for him if they want him to do something. And yes he is very sneaky he pours the clear whisky into a coke bottle and pretends that it is water, if he has obtained the whisky from some source he does not want to disclose. I mean to say though you can smell him from 3 yards after a day of that. Thanks all I'll post an update.

It's been a couple months, is everything okay? Did you mention Wat Thamkrabok or get him a Thai Big Book?

[Johnniey]

I've been told AA wouldn't work with Thais - too much loss of face, family shame, admitting where you're wrong. Part of AA is the old-timers calling BS on the newcomers self-deception. That probably wont work in Thailand.

I'm curious if there will ever be a thriving Thai version of AA in Thailand - or maybe there is. Please tell me if so. I have a Thai Big Book and a Thai 12x12 was in the process of translation a few years back. Is it done?

I've seen Thais in meetings but they speak English and are accustomed to farang ways. My wife is still surprised at the stories I am willing to tell about myself. "People just say-out like this?"

Yup, it works.

Where I live there are daily Thai AA meetings. These meetings average about 10 people, maybe 5 have sobriety in years.

So, AA does work with Thais.

[RickThai]

My wife's youngest sister (mid-40s) is married to an alcoholic. This guy drinks so much his belly swells up (ascites) and he has to spend a few weeks in the hospital before he can get halfway normal again. He is extremely lazy and never works. He steals things from the rest of the family and used to be abusive to his wife, until my wife's brother (a police officer) told him that he would kill him if he ever hits his sister again.

His wife is one of the sweetest, hard-working people I know. Their only son is being raised by my wife's mother and older sister. My wife sends money every month to help take care of her nephew. He is a pretty good kid (around 14). I plan on sending him to college when the time comes, because he gets really good grades.

As for his father, most of my wife's family have nothing to do with him, and are just waiting (hoping actually) for him to die. Since I've had so many liver problems and drinking problems, I've tried to talk with him about whats in store. He smiles and promises not to drink anymore, but within 24 hours he is drunk again.

I have given up on him. I just hope he doesn't suffer too much when his liver finally stops working completely.

I guess I've became rather fatalistic in the Asian way.

Rick

Edited May 10, 2011 by RickThai

[Bluetongue]

Well the report is this and yes I'm getting fatalistic about it as well.

The job he had, he was sacked, he told us because they incorrectly blamed him for damaging a forklift that was already damaged when he got to work. However the mute man who holds down a job at the same place and drove him to work most days told us he was sacked for kipping on the job. Not surprising if you down a bottle before sunup.

Anyway he spent a couple of months at home during which time no-one bought him any booze but he still seemed to manage. We all discussed the temple at LopBuri one day under the mango tree but because it wasn't effective with another family member who had been there before my time and subsequently basically died from boozing then it wasn't worth the effort was the consensus, I did try though. He recognised the issue but not as a problem, for him at least.

Anyway a short time after that a woman turned up here offering work at Chon Buri with a 2k advance on salary, he gave his missus a k and haven't seen him since but I imagine nothing has changed.