Have Some Money To Invest

[wordchild]

I've booked a couple more appointments with IFAs and will get them to draft some ideas of what they'd suggest for me. With a bit more research, I can always walk away and do it myself. Incidentally, they have quoted me their fees as follows: 3% of initial sum invested, and 1% thereafter. 1.5% of managed funds, of which they take 0.5%. All seems a bit exorbitant to me. Reckon I might have to invest it in a bar someplace.

those fees are ridiculous and will eat in significantly to your nest-egg. worth reading a few books i think ! start with "one up on wall street " by peter lynch

i think you will find a good stockbroker cheaper and way more useful than the vast majority of ifas who tend to have zero investment expertise. You mentioned Charles Stanley (a stockbroker) in your original post and i believe their fees are considerably lower than that.

Probably in the region of about £300 per year based on the capital the OP mentioned.

i assume you are not referring to the ifa charges he has been quoted which are exhorbitant ie 3% upfront (on £250000) = £7500; PLUS 1% ongoing fee= £2500; PLUS an additional 1.5 % management fee from any funds they put him in too =£3750,

so, let see, thats £13750 (5.5% of the sum he has to invest) charges in the first year of which £ 6250 that will be an ongoing annual charge ( this does not even mention the other fees they might trouser eg upfront charge kick-back from the fund manager etc ) .

Edited December 23, 2010 by wordchild

[cat5]

^ Sorry, I should correct what I said earlier.

3% initial charge on capital, up to 100K. 1% charge on anything over 100K.

1.5% yearly management charge, of which the IFA gets 0.5%. There is no refund if I do not use the services of an IFA; however, I presume there are other funds with more competitive management charges that don't have 0.5% built in for the bloodsucker / IFA.

[darrendsd]

I would reccommend having a look at Forex trading as a small starter.

If you select the right company to guide you the profits can be quite impressive, although forex is alsso risky of course.

[jay1980]

If i were you i would talk directly (no brokers/advisors needed) to some of the reputable private banks in Singapore (ICICI, Soc Gen) They are secure, low tax, better than average returns.

What are the requirements to transfer cash to one of these banks, could I just turn up at ICICI in Singapore with £20K in cash and change it into AUD's and stick it a 1 year bond at 6.25% or is it more complicated that that?

[jay1980]

I know Phillip securities , they are based in Sing but also have a Thai offshoot, on the whole pretty good i would say.

Thanks, great info

Looked them up online, will see them when I am next in Thailand in April. My funds are tied up to then anyway.

cheers

[Blackandwhite]

Hi, Invest in wine, tax free and very high returns, google it, if you want to know who I use PM me.

I agree with others on dont sell, maybe release some of capital and keep some in Uk property

[cat5]

If i were you i would talk directly (no brokers/advisors needed) to some of the reputable private banks in Singapore (ICICI, Soc Gen) They are secure, low tax, better than average returns.

What are the requirements to transfer cash to one of these banks, could I just turn up at ICICI in Singapore with £20K in cash and change it into AUD's and stick it a 1 year bond at 6.25% or is it more complicated that that?

Look through some small print on the ICICI website and you'll find this:

The Deposit Insurance Scheme as per the Act is only applicable for Singapore dollar deposits. No deposit insurance or other similar coverage would be available for the deposits held in any other currency.

ICICI Bank Limited is a banking company incorporated and regulated under Indian laws, having its head office in Mumbai, India and operates in Singapore through ICICI Bank Limited, Singapore Branches

Anyway, let's get back on track. I am looking for suitable relatively low risk investments and alternatives to cash that I can currently find in the UK.

Edited December 24, 2010 by cat5

[Naam]

If i were you i would talk directly (no brokers/advisors needed) to some of the reputable private banks in Singapore (ICICI, Soc Gen) They are secure, low tax, better than average returns.

What are the requirements to transfer cash to one of these banks, could I just turn up at ICICI in Singapore with £20K in cash and change it into AUD's and stick it a 1 year bond at 6.25% or is it more complicated that that?

Look through some small print on the ICICI website and you'll find this:

The Deposit Insurance Scheme as per the Act is only applicable for Singapore dollar deposits. No deposit insurance or other similar coverage would be available for the deposits held in any other currency.

ICICI Bank Limited is a banking company incorporated and regulated under Indian laws, having its head office in Mumbai, India and operates in Singapore through ICICI Bank Limited, Singapore Branches

Anyway, let's get back on track. I am looking for suitable relatively low risk investments and alternatives to cash that I can currently find in the UK.

-Singapore guarantees are for cash only, "clinique" however recommended an AUD bond. bonds are not guaranteed in any jurisdiction.

-the limitation applies only to foreign currency (non SGD) deposits held with ICICI as the MAS has not yet approved/licensed ICICI for "full banking services" in Singapore.

quote: "The Singapore Government will guarantee all Singapore dollar and foreign currency deposits of individual and non-bank customersin banks, finance companies and merchant banks licensed by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) during this period. "

personal addendum: the "period" expires dec 31, 2010 but is expected to be extended for another two years within the next days.

[Naam]

Anyway, let's get back on track. I am looking for suitable relatively low risk investments and alternatives to cash that I can currently find in the UK.

solution = AUD cash, maturity one week, interest rate presently 4.43% (maturity and rate available only for minimum deposit value of SGD 150,000). the short maturity enables to switch more or less immediately if AUD tumbles.

prevailing AUD overnight rate for deposits value minimum SGD 500,000 = 4.5625%

[Naam]

Hi, Invest in wine, tax free and very high returns, google it, if you want to know who I use PM me.

I agree with others on dont sell, maybe release some of capital and keep some in Uk property

i too invest in wine every evening and sometimes i get high. if you want to know which wine i drink please PM me, no need to google!

[jfchandler]

Seems this question below has gone unanswered..amid all the flying financial advice....

If i were you i would talk directly (no brokers/advisors needed) to some of the reputable private banks in Singapore (ICICI, Soc Gen) They are secure, low tax, better than average returns.

What are the requirements to transfer cash to one of these banks, could I just turn up at ICICI in Singapore with £20K in cash and change it into AUD's and stick it a 1 year bond at 6.25% or is it more complicated that that?

[rgs2001uk]

Probably in the region of about £300 per year based on the capital the OP mentioned.

i assume you are not referring to the ifa charges he has been quoted which are exhorbitant ie 3% upfront (on £250000) = £7500; PLUS 1% ongoing fee= £2500; PLUS an additional 1.5 % management fee from any funds they put him in too =£3750,

so, let see, thats £13750 (5.5% of the sum he has to invest) charges in the first year of which £ 6250 that will be an ongoing annual charge ( this does not even mention the other fees they might trouser eg upfront charge kick-back from the fund manager etc ) .

WC, I concur with your previous statements, not only are these fees extortionate, they amount to nothing more than legalized robbery.

Anyone being quoted these sort of fees should count themselves lucky, they are an indication of the type of people you should not be doing business with.

I use an independent firm of stockbrokers, and my fees are nowhere near what the OP mentions.

[Potter]

As you are under 50, and you are considering other obtions for countries. If you transfer 10m baht into Thailand, then you can do an investment visa.

That being said, I am in a similar situation as you. To my the big market is a jungle. My bank recommended me to buy some kind of derivate with an insurrance company. Money to be locked for 10 years. 10% interest rate. I ended dividing my money between 2 banks, and invest in 2 similar equities. Government bonds combined with bank bonds. They pay about 2% per year. Investment will run for less than 1 year. Then I will need to look for investments again. 2% per years sounds not like a lot to me. But I am told it is about fair for a safe investment.

I plan in 3 years time to apply for permanent ressidence permit. If and when I get that, I will try to look into Thai stocks. But for now, I dont want to risk the market crashing and not have obtion to do my visa. I also believe there is a lot of good advice for you in this thread.

[Bizz]

These are very strange and difficult times. There are 160 trillion (US$equivalent) in derivatives floating about wordwide--the amount is unfathomable. If US banks were forced to "mark to market" (state assets value at today's sale value) there would not be a solvent bank in the US. I believe it to be about the same in Europe. Everything is smoke and mirrors today. Six US banks were shuttered last week alone but does the media report it? Nope. Each bank had on average less than half in equity as it formerly stated, the numbers are there to see. There would be far more bank closings but the Fed moves slow in fear of starting a panic.

I agree that Singapore, Thailand (and to a lesser degree Australia) are wise choices though I fear that "contagion" will wreck havoc worldwide.

Look at the value of the Swiss Franc and the Yen, both are overvalued, as fear causes gold to rise and investors to seek safety--so much so in the Yen that to an American a Honda Accord "should" cost 12% more this year than last year, yet it is not the case. As this continues I fear for Japan. Even countries that are solid such as Singapore and Thailand will suffer when capital flows into them out of other currencies. Capital always moves to quality--the problem is that the Singapore dollar and Thai Baht will rise in value and in doing so this can hurt exports. Oz is unique with it's commodity strength, but it is so inter-meshed with China. China is the Bull in the bathtub, and if it slips, Oz will be particularly hurt.

Bonds, I believe are the kiss of death. The US 30 year bond rate has risen 25% in the last 40 days--extrapolate this out realizing that bonds that pay higher rates decimate prior lower rate paying bonds. There are riots today in Italy and Greece over austerity measures--yet no austerity measure will save any of the Western countries as we move into a debt spiral. Imagine your own debt's percentage rate increasing 25% in each month?

It may be that the best investment other than tangibles (gold/silver/copper) is quality real estate with fixed mortgage debt. If we move to a 20% inflation rate as we did in 1980-1983, your mortgage effectively shrinks 20% in that year. If this scenario comes to pass, gold will rise 20% in that year. It is not that gold is really rising, it is that the value of the underlying currency is falling--and brother, will it fall.

America with its "gimme" attitude will not accept austerity, therefore in America it will be QE (Quantitative Easing) QE3..4...5... The American state of California alone makes Greece and Portugal's problems look like child's play. Europe will do QE 3..4...5.... too, it is that or face implosion and a deflationary depression. But the mirror image is inflationary.... Governments worldwide are walking a razor's edge of inflation.

As far as investment advisers I say what I asked my sister to do: Ask the Advisor: "How did you fare between September 2008 and September 2010." In almost all cases you will receive no answer at all.

I like Thai stocks, but it is difficult to understand and fairly expensive to get into it (~25-40,000US$). But there are many Thai companies that are rock solid, and these have a history of paying out solid dividends--but finding an adviser I would not know where to start.

As I've done since September of 2008 I recommend at least 20% in gold and silver physical and/or stock, and it gets a bit difficult to recommend Silver Wheaton, one of my favorites, which is now $38/share (Canadian Stock) knowing that when I first recommended it to my friends in 2008 it was $2.55/share, yet I still do. (Though I am no financial adviser, so please don't listen to me). But to understand the role of gold/silver search google for "safe deposit boxes in germany" and you will learn something about the role of gold versus currency versus fear.

Quality energy stock will do well in inflationary periods as it did even during the Weimar Republic hyper inflationary period, though not as well as gold/silver.

Hard choices--but exciting ones I think, wise choices now might still be the trades of the century.

nail on the head good comment.

Anyway, let's get back on track. I am looking for suitable relatively low risk investments and alternatives to cash that I can currently find in the UK.

solution = AUD cash, maturity one week, interest rate presently 4.43% (maturity and rate available only for minimum deposit value of SGD 150,000). the short maturity enables to switch more or less immediately if AUD tumbles.

prevailing AUD overnight rate for deposits value minimum SGD 500,000 = 4.5625%

this is why you have lot's and lot's of mullas, bob's,money.kive the boy a a dollar bill he is the man been there done that seen it all before,listen or weap.

nice one Naomi.oh Naam

you are the man, after my own wisdom,a wine is but a morsel of earth we acquire to savour and enjoy my own words , myself I'm partial to new Zealand wine as Bordeaux is now over priced.Monticello crianza 2007 rioja all right OK but a little immature not without it's flavours and bouquet,had a bottle of tarragona 2006 with a cold salad of smoked salmon wild Canadian smoked and the tarragona worked it's magic if you would like jpg I will oblige.

[Naam]

Read "Fail safe Investing" by Harry Browne. Old book, solid advice. Just omit the part about buying bonds....

seconded! don't buy bonds. why would you want to know what date your bonds pay what amount of interest? that's utterly boring. buy shares and you will have a good time guessing each and every day what your shares might be doing. and don't forget... shares will always go up, up and up. you will be a rich man in no time except... when your shares are going down, down and down.

assuming you live in Thailand you should buy Thai shares and you might have a lot of fun. perhaps not as much fun as those investors who bought the SET 16 years ago in 1994 @ 1,753 and cut their losses in the meantime to a mere 42%. they laugh about the cowards who committed suicide in 1998 because those lost 88% of their capital when the SET dropped from its 1,753 high to 207.

[Naam]

Anyway, let's get back on track. I am looking for suitable relatively low risk investments and alternatives to cash that I can currently find in the UK.

solution = AUD cash, maturity one week, interest rate presently 4.43% (maturity and rate available only for minimum deposit value of SGD 150,000). the short maturity enables to switch more or less immediately if AUD tumbles.

prevailing AUD overnight rate for deposits value minimum SGD 500,000 = 4.5625%

this is why you have lot's and lot's of mullas, bob's,money.kive the boy a a dollar bill he is the man been there done that seen it all before,listen or weap.

nice one Naomi.oh Naam

you are the man, after my own wisdom,a wine is but a morsel of earth we acquire to savour and enjoy my own words , myself I'm partial to new Zealand wine as Bordeaux is now over priced.Monticello crianza 2007 rioja all right OK but a little immature not without it's flavours and bouquet,had a bottle of tarragona 2006 with a cold salad of smoked salmon wild Canadian smoked and the tarragona worked it's magic if you would like jpg I will oblige.

hey Bizz!

i speak a bit Yoruba and can converse in Tiv. but your african language is completely unknown to me. please translate in a language i master (preferably German, Farsi or Arabic).

:jap:

[clinique]

Seems this question below has gone unanswered..amid all the flying financial advice....

If i were you i would talk directly (no brokers/advisors needed) to some of the reputable private banks in Singapore (ICICI, Soc Gen) They are secure, low tax, better than average returns.

What are the requirements to transfer cash to one of these banks, could I just turn up at ICICI in Singapore with £20K in cash and change it into AUD's and stick it a 1 year bond at 6.25% or is it more complicated that that?

I dont see that cash in that amount would be aproblem, but most banks these days would more readily accept a bank transfer so they know the funds are authenticated as 'clean'. I use ICICI for years and they have been very good (head office in Mumbai - but they are listed on NY Stock exchange and mostly foreing held)

I have amixed portfolio with themand have had returns of not less than 8% for several years.

[changnaam]

I've booked a couple more appointments with IFAs and will get them to draft some ideas of what they'd suggest for me. With a bit more research, I can always walk away and do it myself. Incidentally, they have quoted me their fees as follows: 3% of initial sum invested, and 1% thereafter. 1.5% of managed funds, of which they take 0.5%. All seems a bit exorbitant to me. Reckon I might have to invest it in a bar someplace.

Sounds like what you are boing offered are offshore bonds, I guess Royal Skandia or Friends Provident or the like. There are much more cost effective ways of doing exactly the same through online platforms from a company which can also appoint an advisor to assist with the investment. Expect to pay around 0.1% per annum custodian rather than the 1% and without the initial 3% up front. There are reputable companies which can offer this.

An offshore bond can have tax benefits should you return to the UK but if you are not considering this in the next few years then I would steer clear.

[changnaam]

As you are under 50, and you are considering other obtions for countries. If you transfer 10m baht into Thailand, then you can do an investment visa.

That being said, I am in a similar situation as you. To my the big market is a jungle. My bank recommended me to buy some kind of derivate with an insurrance company. Money to be locked for 10 years. 10% interest rate. I ended dividing my money between 2 banks, and invest in 2 similar equities. Government bonds combined with bank bonds. They pay about 2% per year. Investment will run for less than 1 year. Then I will need to look for investments again. 2% per years sounds not like a lot to me. But I am told it is about fair for a safe investment.

I plan in 3 years time to apply for permanent ressidence permit. If and when I get that, I will try to look into Thai stocks. But for now, I dont want to risk the market crashing and not have obtion to do my visa. I also believe there is a lot of good advice for you in this thread.

What benefit would you gain from transferring GBP into THB when it is sitting around 46 to the pound. Unless you really plan to spend this money in Thailand and feel that the THB will only get stronger then I would not touch this idea with a barge pole.

[rgs2001uk]

As you are under 50, and you are considering other obtions for countries. If you transfer 10m baht into Thailand, then you can do an investment visa.

That being said, I am in a similar situation as you. To my the big market is a jungle. My bank recommended me to buy some kind of derivate with an insurrance company. Money to be locked for 10 years. 10% interest rate. I ended dividing my money between 2 banks, and invest in 2 similar equities. Government bonds combined with bank bonds. They pay about 2% per year. Investment will run for less than 1 year. Then I will need to look for investments again. 2% per years sounds not like a lot to me. But I am told it is about fair for a safe investment.

I plan in 3 years time to apply for permanent ressidence permit. If and when I get that, I will try to look into Thai stocks. But for now, I dont want to risk the market crashing and not have obtion to do my visa. I also believe there is a lot of good advice for you in this thread.

What benefit would you gain from transferring GBP into THB when it is sitting around 46 to the pound. Unless you really plan to spend this money in Thailand and feel that the THB will only get stronger then I would not touch this idea with a barge pole.

He wont get any benefit.

This may well be one of the only options for someone under 50 and not married to a Thai to stay in Thailand legally.

However he forgets to mention the pitfalls, he has to apply for an extension every year, still has to do 90 day reporting, the way of obtaining the extension is based on having the capital tied up in Thai bonds, therefore he wont be able to spend it.

Why would you transfer control of your money to the Thais?

Planning to apply for PR, none have been issued for about the last 4 years, the poster may not even be eligible to apply, will he be working here earning at least 80k baht per month and paying taxes?

The poster should head over to the visa forum and read the pinned thread about obtaining PR.

Have a look at what Thai bonds are paying and what 10 million baht invested elsewhere will give you, its a no brainer.

Derivate from an insurance company, I assume this means some sort of endowment policy, wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

[changnaam]

As you are under 50, and you are considering other obtions for countries. If you transfer 10m baht into Thailand, then you can do an investment visa.

That being said, I am in a similar situation as you. To my the big market is a jungle. My bank recommended me to buy some kind of derivate with an insurrance company. Money to be locked for 10 years. 10% interest rate. I ended dividing my money between 2 banks, and invest in 2 similar equities. Government bonds combined with bank bonds. They pay about 2% per year. Investment will run for less than 1 year. Then I will need to look for investments again. 2% per years sounds not like a lot to me. But I am told it is about fair for a safe investment.

I plan in 3 years time to apply for permanent ressidence permit. If and when I get that, I will try to look into Thai stocks. But for now, I dont want to risk the market crashing and not have obtion to do my visa. I also believe there is a lot of good advice for you in this thread.

What benefit would you gain from transferring GBP into THB when it is sitting around 46 to the pound. Unless you really plan to spend this money in Thailand and feel that the THB will only get stronger then I would not touch this idea with a barge pole.

He wont get any benefit.

This may well be one of the only options for someone under 50 and not married to a Thai to stay in Thailand legally.

However he forgets to mention the pitfalls, he has to apply for an extension every year, still has to do 90 day reporting, the way of obtaining the extension is based on having the capital tied up in Thai bonds, therefore he wont be able to spend it.

Why would you transfer control of your money to the Thais?

Planning to apply for PR, none have been issued for about the last 4 years, the poster may not even be eligible to apply, will he be working here earning at least 80k baht per month and paying taxes?

The poster should head over to the visa forum and read the pinned thread about obtaining PR.

Have a look at what Thai bonds are paying and what 10 million baht invested elsewhere will give you, its a no brainer.

Derivate from an insurance company, I assume this means some sort of endowment policy, wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

Exactly. which was why the question was "tongue in cheek" and an attempt to understand where the motivation or reasoning behind the original suggestion to transfer to THB came from

[Naam]

Sorry, I should have specified.... dont buy government bonds!! Corporate bonds are a different story.

i was not referring to any bonds but to the SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) which still has a long way to go to reach the peak of 17 (seventeen) years ago.

[jfchandler]

And probably, the SET will be headed back down in that direction someday in the future when a certain national event occurs due to the passage of time and age.

But much like the U.S. market crash of 08-09, that potential dip (or crash) might well be the time to get into the Thai market for those not already invested .. assuming you have some faith in the country and its economy to survive reasonably intact moving into the future.

assuming you live in Thailand you should buy Thai shares and you might have a lot of fun. perhaps not as much fun as those investors who bought the SET 16 years ago in 1994 @ 1,753 and cut their losses in the meantime to a mere 42%. they laugh about the cowards who committed suicide in 1998 because those lost 88% of their capital when the SET dropped from its 1,753 high to 207.

[Arkady]

Don't touch the phoney "IFAs" lurking around in Thailand with a barge pole. Most are shysters with no knowledge of investment, although some were trained as commission life insurance salesmen in the UK. They will mainly try to sell you fee laden offshore (including Channel Islands and Isle of Man) domiciled products that aren't under the UK's Financial Services and Markets Act. The larger ones in Bangkok have branched out into managing their own shonky offshore funds they will push with or without bothering to mention they are managing the junk themselves without any knowledge of fund management, just to cream off an extra layer of fees or maybe even vaporise with the entire investment.

Just open an international brokerage account with a broker like Internaxx in Luxemburg that gives you access to a lot of different stock markets, including the UK , US Canada, Australia, Europe, Hong Kong and Singapore. Choose how to allocate your investment to cash, fixed income, shares and commodities. For the shares decide on breakdown between developed and emerging markets, and geographical preferences. Then buy ETFs mainly listed in US and UK. Google ETF and look at iShares website for a good selection. For commodities you can do the same thing. Gold, silver, palladium, platinum, oil, corn, sugar, soy beans, palm oil, etc are all available as ETFs listed on either the New York or London stock markets. There are also bond funds for your fixed income. You can go as broad or narrow as you like in most cases, e.g. for US shares you can buy the S&P500 for broad brush or individual sectors like financials, energy etc. For emerging markets you can buy an emerging market ETF, and Latin America or East Europe fund and many individual market ETFs such as Thailand, Indonesia. For commodities there are ETFs for all soft commodities as well the individual commodities.

You are on your own but that is no different from being with a financial advisor. The "IFAs" don't advise you when to switch out of shares into cash because they tie you up with long term schemes that pay them kick backs, called trailers in the trade. ETFs don't charge any entry fees, exit fees or early redemption fees or charge a big spread between buying and selling price and annual management fees are very low. There is no notice period for redemption. You can buy and sell any time during stock market hours. ETFs use computer programmes to follow their benchmark indexes which is why their costs are low and because they find their customers passively through stock markets, they don't need to pay fat salesmen's commissions. The actively managed funds may do well for a year or two but statistically no more than 5% can outperform their market benchmark consistently for 5 years. That is without taking entry fees into account which reduces their performance even more.

There are some honest financial advisors who charge transparent fees and don't get kickbacks but very few in Thailand and most are not licensed by the Thai SEC.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Arkady

[fletchsmile]

Read "Fail safe Investing" by Harry Browne. Old book, solid advice. Just omit the part about buying bonds....

...

assuming you live in Thailand you should buy Thai shares and you might have a lot of fun. perhaps not as much fun as those investors who bought the SET 16 years ago in 1994 @ 1,753 and cut their losses in the meantime to a mere 42%. they laugh about the cowards who committed suicide in 1998 because those lost 88% of their capital when the SET dropped from its 1,753 high to 207.

I would have thought after all these years on TV Dr.Naam you'd stop confusing these mere humans You are correct that the index has not yet reached the prior peak you quote. Using your data point to current day is a loss of over 3% per year. The big BUT though is that this excludes dividend returns, which have averaged 4%+ for the last 10 years or so.

The real picture is therefore that even taking the worst possible point as you have done, until current day, the return would be positive! 3%+ capital loss BUT 4%+ dividend income would outweigh this if reinvested.

Now find yourself a good fund manager such as Aberdeen, whose alpha (return relative to index) consistently (but not every year) outperforms the index and the story is even better. I've been averaging over 20% per year over the last decade or so on Thai funds.

You're right on volatility though

[Naam]

I would have thought after all these years on TV Dr.Naam you'd stop confusing these mere humans You are correct that the index has not yet reached the prior peak you quote. Using your data point to current day is a loss of over 3% per year. The big BUT though is that this excludes dividend returns, which have averaged 4%+ for the last 10 years or so.

Honourable Khun Fletch, Esq.;

may i [not so] humbly draw your attention to Thailand's annual inflation rate of "the last 10 years or so" and deduct that loss with the deplorable and ridiculously low "averaged 4%+ dividend returns p.a."? the only bright part was the performance of the Thai Baht vs. some other currencies.

:jap:

stock indices, shares, other investments in Thailand and similar lotteries are meant for dreamers. money/investments should be held tax free in clearcut and politically stable jurisdictions without any restrictions as far as currency conversions or capital movements are concerned. unfortunately neither applies to Thailand!

case closed, bailiff next...

[fletchsmile]

case closed, bailiff next...

Honourable Khun Fletch, Esq.;

may i [not so] humbly draw your attention to Thailand's annual inflation rate of "the last 10 years or so" and deduct that loss with the deplorable and ridiculously low "averaged 4%+ dividend returns p.a."? the only bright part was the performance of the Thai Baht vs. some other currencies.

:jap:

Hold that hammer bailiff

I would say the approx 500% return on Aberdeen Growth over the last 10 years covers inflation nicely.(20% p.a.)

As you say for the westen humans they've also enjoyed an extra 20-30% currency gain in the last 10 years if they've been in THB rather than USD/EUR/GBP

stock indices, shares, other investments in Thailand and similar lotteries are meant for dreamers.

Let's just say I'm enjoying "living the dream" and doing a little better than Leeds United Football Club, who coined that phrase imfamously

money/investments should be held tax free !

Indeed totally agree on the tax. Capital gains on Thai equity funds are tax free. In fact since 2004 they've gone one better and even give me back 37% extra in tax relief, on the LTF equivalent of the same fund. Had that been available for the full 10 years instead of being a recent development and only the last 7. The returns would be around 850% or 25% p.a.

..in clearcut and politically stable jurisdictions without any restrictions as far as currency conversions or capital movements are concerned. unfortunately neither applies to Thailand!

Come on now every Klingon and his dog knows that Thailand and political stability have never really gone hand in hand. Isn't that part of the reason we love it?

Why would I want to move money out of Thailand? Temporary capital controls from time to time have little long term impact for someone intending to live here So no need to bail out of here, or to use an analogy with a friend of yours:

"Don't beam me up Scottie" - "I'm quite happy here in Thai equities". One of the best (long term) places in the universe for humans living in Thailand. Granted they shouldn't be putting all their eggs in one basket though

[Naam]

I would say the approx 500% return on Aberdeen Growth over the last 10 years covers inflation nicely. (20% p.a.)

i grudgingly admit... not bad at all. but what percentage of one's capital would be advisable to invest in a single fund which invests (correct me if i'm wrong) in a single country and is managed by men who wear skirts?

[Naam]

Why would I want to move money out of Thailand?

wrong syntax as far as i am concerned. for me the question is "why would i want to move money into Thailand if not for essentials such as roof over the head, transportation and general living expenses?"

[Naam]

Temporary capital controls from time to time...

...are actually permanent in Thailand. if i transfer on a tuesday a million dollars to my bank in Thailand, convert the amount into Baht on wednesday, have second thoughts thursday morning, want to change into HKD and swift these HKD to Hong Kong (that they are available there friday noon for that race horse my chinese mia noi wants to buy ) can i phone SCB and tell the chap or lady at the other end "do it"?

or will SCB say

"Sir, please submit your birth certificate notarised by a public notary of your country, consularised by your country's embassy in Thailand and thai-ised by the Ministry of Interior stating clearly who are you, what are you and why are you, add a hand written CV, attach documents of your academic degrees and we will submit your application to the relevant department in our BKK head office for further evaluation. oh, and Sir! please don't forget to add three handsigned photocopies of your passport, your visa, 6 passport sized photos, a letter of indemnity from your wife, a recent medical certificate and the bra size of your mia noi.