Oh The Lies!

[StreetCowboy]

Any fool can tell the truth, but it requires a man of some sense to know how to lie well.

Samuel Butler (1835 - 1902)

:lol:

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Let the story lead - the truth can follow, if necessary.

It's like fish... the one-armed fisherman caught a fish this big --->|

SC

[Wallaby]

In the western world what you say can be true, mainly due to the scarcity value of the product they are pushing, and the financial investment you made to get your hands on said product..

But over here, 'woe is me my heart is broken what shall i do ........... oh oh that girl over there just smiled at me, did you see that?'

It's just not that hard to get it over here get over it here!

Wow. You're a lucky fellow.

But you most certainly aren't even remotely close to understanding the nature of the pain that compelled my friend (who was indecently good-looking [nohomo], captained the 1st XV at uni, not brilliantly academic but no slouch by any means, universally popular and a recently commissioned Duntroon graduate) to suddenly just decide one day he would hang himself.

You can rest assured if you think it's because he found it hard to "get it", you most certainly do not. With no facetiousness, are you 'avin a larf or are you serious? If serious, I think I'm a bit envious, and I'm not being trite.

If you're confused, the simple fact is that "it" is not what most of us are looking for. At least not since high school...snicker. Hmm, I suspect you get the last snicker actually...

Somehow I don't think you're getting into the spirit of this thread.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Somehow I don't think you're getting into the spirit of this thread.

I hope your good luck continues, Ian. However, I feel it's time to cast a pall over this light-hearted treatment of what is really a far darker topic than the tone of this thread suggests .

It was with heavy heart that I "went negative" (and you can see I resisted the temptation for almost 60 posts), but I admit I don't really (personally) think that treating lies and deception as something harmless or amusing or a 'game'...is appropriate.

This is subjective opinion, of course. But I think a lot of very dark stuff is masked by these flippant attitudes. Deceiving someone is rarely hilarious or harmless. Not when so many people subscribe to almost culturally-ingrained ideas that deception is somehow preferable to truth...and lying becomes their default option.

[Wallaby]

May just be me then. I laugh at bad things that have happened to me and friends in the past. I prefer not to be sad about it, would drive me crazy. May just be the aussie trait to laugh at oneself and others.

Lying is just a part of life, everyone does it and sometimes the lies are so stupid they are funny. That is what we are finding amusing here. Even funnier is when the person telling the lies expects you to believe them.

We had an 'odd' death in our family when I was very young, our family still talks about it sometimes and we all laugh at the circumstances of the death. It happened, it wasn't funny at the time, but we can see the funny side of it now.

Of course I'm not making light of your circumstance.

[StreetCowboy]

SNIP ---8><

But you most certainly aren't even remotely close to understanding the nature of the pain that compelled my friend (who was indecently good-looking [nohomo], captained the 1st XV at uni, not brilliantly academic but no slouch by any means, universally popular and a recently commissioned Duntroon graduate) to suddenly just decide one day he would hang himself.

.... ><8 SNIP FOR SUCCINCTNESS

I put it to you that it was not the lies that made him hang himself, but the truth.

He probably didn't make the decision suddenly, he probably spent ages wishing he could belive the lies when he knew the truth, and then decided that he could not live the lie to himself, and could not face the truth,

My apologies for being unable to dress my opinion up more tenderly, and my heatfelt sympathies. I am guessing that nohomo stands for Not Only His Olso My Opinion, rather than a statement on how he crossed the road.

My point is - generally, it is not the lies that hurt, it is the truth. And if we want to avoid the painful truth, we should not ask the questions that demand the lies, we should believe the lies without them needing told. And if we cannot, then we are lost before we begin. I guess perhaps one contributor to the problem is that Thais believe that we are as adept at believing lies as they are, but their political, moral and social background gives them such an advantage over us!

Anyway, my condolences on the loss of your friend - no amount of bickering pedantry will help assuage your loss

SC

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I put it to you that it was not the lies that made him hang himself, but the truth.

He probably didn't make the decision suddenly, he probably spent ages wishing he could belive the lies when he knew the truth, and then decided that he could not live the lie to himself, and could not face the truth,

My apologies for being unable to dress my opinion up more tenderly, and my heatfelt sympathies. I am guessing that nohomo stands for Not Only His Olso My Opinion, rather than a statement on how he crossed the road.

My point is - generally, it is not the lies that hurt, it is the truth. And if we want to avoid the painful truth, we should not ask the questions that demand the lies, we should believe the lies without them needing told. And if we cannot, then we are lost before we begin. I guess perhaps one contributor to the problem is that Thais believe that we are as adept at believing lies as they are, but their political, moral and social background gives them such an advantage over us!

Well, I *almost* see what you're saying and that may be the case a lot of the time (especially in Thailand where, let's face it, you would have to REALLY want to believe the really bad spin to get hurt I suspect)...but whether it's in Australia or UK or US or Thailand, if you meet someone who you think you will marry and who swears they feel the same blah blah, you're building a life together, etc...then one day you find out it's not so much that she was being dishonest with you, but she was being equally honest with you and with her old first love who has her wrapped around his finger, who she races to at a drop of a dime, only returning to you should her desired preference blow her off...I dunno, I'm rambling and I can't remember the specifics but it was some pretty twisted stuff...and, even more twisted, is simply how ridiculously common that generic scenario really is.

So it's not that the Truth could have possibly hurt him. It's the lies and the lies and the months and the years of vile, horrific, selfish deceit from the partner planning a life with him (and a life she would have lived, but liable to being TOSSED in 5 seconds should her ONE shrug and call her over)...then discovering the Truth, which didn't kill him so much as the twisted sickness in the extended period of time where he was merely an undesired but highly likely backup plan.

Then he wasn't. And I dunno, maybe watching her sheer joy at not being relegated to...you, after all. I can see how that could theoretically be simply untenable pain to be worth trying to slog through...but then I've always been a sentimentalist...

------------

* nohomo is just a flippant tag popular on some immature forums I frequent. Used by homophobic bigots to avoid 'embarrassing' misunderstandings when passionately describing the attractiveness of another man. It's not intended to be denigrating to gay men, rather the opposite - I'm not gay (more's the pity) but gays (and wannabes like I) might tag it "ohhhhomo" or w/e. I realise I'm rambling, yes thank you genius...just trying to clarify it's not a slur, slurs are for sissies and girlie men. I never stoop to the use of slurs.

I dunno what's going on actually. I'm pretty drunk. Where are we...what's going on here...is anyone even running this shambles? I can't work under these conditions. You'll let any chump post in this one-horse town.

Look at the this post above, mods. You call this content? They call him Scooter? Why do they call him at all!! Send him on his way, I implore you.

[StreetCowboy]

I put it to you that it was not the lies that made him hang himself, but the truth.

He probably didn't make the decision suddenly, he probably spent ages wishing he could belive the lies when he knew the truth, and then decided that he could not live the lie to himself, and could not face the truth,

My apologies for being unable to dress my opinion up more tenderly, and my heatfelt sympathies. I am guessing that nohomo stands for Not Only His Olso My Opinion, rather than a statement on how he crossed the road.

My point is - generally, it is not the lies that hurt, it is the truth. And if we want to avoid the painful truth, we should not ask the questions that demand the lies, we should believe the lies without them needing told. And if we cannot, then we are lost before we begin. I guess perhaps one contributor to the problem is that Thais believe that we are as adept at believing lies as they are, but their political, moral and social background gives them such an advantage over us!

Well, I *almost* see what you're saying and that may be the case a lot of the time (especially in Thailand where, let's face it, you would have to REALLY want to believe the really bad spin to get hurt I suspect)...but whether it's in Australia or UK or US or Thailand, if you meet someone who you think you will marry and who swears they feel the same blah blah, you're building a life together, etc...then one day you find out it's not so much that she was being dishonest with you, but she was being equally honest with you and with her old first love who has her wrapped around his finger, who she races to at a drop of a dime, only returning to you should her desired preference blow her off...I dunno, I'm rambling and I can't remember the specifics but it was some pretty twisted stuff...and, even more twisted, is simply how ridiculously common that generic scenario really is.

So it's not that the Truth could have possibly hurt him. It's the lies and the lies and the months and the years of vile, horrific, selfish deceit from the partner planning a life with him (and a life she would have lived, but liable to being TOSSED in 5 seconds should her ONE shrug and call her over)...then discovering the Truth, which didn't kill him so much as the twisted sickness in the extended period of time where he was merely an undesired but highly likely backup plan.

Then he wasn't. And I dunno, maybe watching her sheer joy at not being relegated to...you, after all. I can see how that could theoretically be simply untenable pain to be worth trying to slog through...but then I've always been a sentimentalist...

------------

* nohomo is just a flippant tag popular on some immature forums I frequent. Used by homophobic bigots to avoid 'embarrassing' misunderstandings when passionately describing the attractiveness of another man. It's not intended to be denigrating to gay men, rather the opposite - I'm not gay (more's the pity) but gays (and wannabes like I) might tag it "ohhhhomo" or w/e. I realise I'm rambling, yes thank you genius...just trying to clarify it's not a slur, slurs are for sissies and girlie men. I never stoop to the use of slurs.

I dunno what's going on actually. I'm pretty drunk. Where are we...what's going on here...is anyone even running this shambles? I can't work under these conditions. You'll let any chump post in this one-horse town.

Look at the this post above, mods. You call this content? They call him Scooter? Why do they call him at all!! Send him on his way, I implore you.

Ah, the pearls of strong drink.

And the worst of it is, that once its replied to, I think you can't edit ...

They call me, too, by the way. IanForbes started a thread on that very topic

I think that your explanation of 'nohomo' is less entertaining than mine, and I shall persist with my own. If anyone sees fit to see me queer, I should ask them to step outside, with the smokers.

SC

[thaibeachlovers]

Liars are easy to spot in my home country- they are called politicians.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Ah, the pearls of strong drink.

And the worst of it is, that once its replied to, I think you can't edit ...

Oh you bastard, chortle. I'm actually quite relieved, I vaguely remembered some drunken posting but it appears that might be the worst of it. Or perhaps the hero mods have saved me from embarrassment. Alls well that ends okay-ish.

Liars are easy to spot in my home country- they are called politicians.

Ah, but as everyone knows, they do not lie except to protect us. It's for our own good, you see. And of course, the pursuance of Freedom™.

Death penalty for Assange, please. Filthy truth-spouting traitor.

Now I really have seen evil incarnate...

[Chunky1]

judging from the posts I read on TV, I would say that farang do a whole lot lying to themselves.

[MrJohnson]

Ah, the pearls of strong drink.

And the worst of it is, that once its replied to, I think you can't edit ...

Oh you bastard, chortle. I'm actually quite relieved, I vaguely remembered some drunken posting but it appears that might be the worst of it. Or perhaps the hero mods have saved me from embarrassment. Alls well that ends okay-ish.

Liars are easy to spot in my home country- they are called politicians.

Ah, but as everyone knows, they do not lie except to protect us. It's for our own good, you see. And of course, the pursuance of Freedom™.

Death penalty for Assange, please. Filthy truth-spouting traitor.

Now I really have seen evil incarnate...

Oh dear..........

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Ah, the pearls of strong drink.

And the worst of it is, that once its replied to, I think you can't edit ...

Oh you bastard, chortle. I'm actually quite relieved, I vaguely remembered some drunken posting but it appears that might be the worst of it. Or perhaps the hero mods have saved me from embarrassment. Alls well that ends okay-ish.

Liars are easy to spot in my home country- they are called politicians.

Ah, but as everyone knows, they do not lie except to protect us. It's for our own good, you see. And of course, the pursuance of Freedom™.

Death penalty for Assange, please. Filthy truth-spouting traitor.

Now I really have seen evil incarnate...

Oh dear..........

Way OT but in the interests of streamlining (or mainlining) On-Topic content....god but I do love one-liner Comment overlays on posts. sigh. example:

[IanForbes]

judging from the posts I read on TV, I would say that farang do a whole lot lying to themselves.

That's not lying, Chunky. It's wanting to believe the impossible. Or, at least the highly unlikely.

"Oh you hansum man, I love you long time" ... said to the old, bald guy with the stomach protruding over his waistband.

[473geo]

judging from the posts I read on TV, I would say that farang do a whole lot lying to themselves.

That's not lying, Chunky. It's wanting to believe the impossible. Or, at least the highly unlikely.

"Oh you hansum man, I love you long time" ... said to the old, bald guy with the stomach protruding over his waistband.

Ha.....I guess there's no chance of the real uglies being fooled by the 'hansum man' line.........fair play you ain't ever gonna fall for it......

[IanForbes]

Ha.....I guess there's no chance of the real uglies being fooled by the 'hansum man' line.........fair play you ain't ever gonna fall for it......

:lol:

Oh too true. As much as I would LIKE to believe it, all I have to do is look in the mirror.

But, I sure can get a laugh out of the game being played. And, it IS a game... a fun one at that.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

But, I sure can get a laugh out of the game being played. And, it IS a game... a fun one at that.

Games can be played in an infinitely more complex manner than "hansum man", of course. I wonder how many realise there is very little, if any, ridiculous clichéd and catch-phrased silliness, when the game is played at the far more 'advanced' levels.

And when it is, I half-suspect the fallout is exponentially more soul/character-destroying.

I imagine......

[jimbeam1]

Actually, for as much as lying seems to be a part of Thai culture they are remarkably bad at it. Part of that is that they don't expect to ever have their lies questioned so they put very little effort into making them believable. I mean, back home when you want to tell a lie as simple as why you were late this morning you go through all sorts of different scenarios in your head. You work out possible rebuttals and your responses. You make sure that your lie is plausible. Etc, etc, etc. Thais just seem to say the first thing that pops into their heads.

Examples:

Farang Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh, it was crazy. I was coming down Sukhumvit, you know near Soi 10, right near the park? Anyway, a cop stops me and asks me to empty my pockets. I tell him no way. So he threatens to take me down to the police station and . . . well, long story short, I have to go to the ATM to pull out some money to make the problem go away. See, I have the ATM receipt right here. I had to give him 1000 baht.

Thai Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh traffic, mak, mak.

Boss: You just told me yesterday that you take the BTS to work

Employee: Blank stare.

I was always told, that to be a good liar, you must also have a very good memorary.

jb1

[Moonrakers]

Actually, for as much as lying seems to be a part of Thai culture they are remarkably bad at it. Part of that is that they don't expect to ever have their lies questioned so they put very little effort into making them believable. I mean, back home when you want to tell a lie as simple as why you were late this morning you go through all sorts of different scenarios in your head. You work out possible rebuttals and your responses. You make sure that your lie is plausible. Etc, etc, etc. Thais just seem to say the first thing that pops into their heads.

Examples:

Farang Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh, it was crazy. I was coming down Sukhumvit, you know near Soi 10, right near the park? Anyway, a cop stops me and asks me to empty my pockets. I tell him no way. So he threatens to take me down to the police station and . . . well, long story short, I have to go to the ATM to pull out some money to make the problem go away. See, I have the ATM receipt right here. I had to give him 1000 baht.

Thai Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh traffic, mak, mak.

Boss: You just told me yesterday that you take the BTS to work

Employee: Blank stare.

I was always told, that to be a good liar, you must also have a very good memorary.

jb1

I remember being told once that if you never tell a lie, you never have to remember what you have said in the past. Some people tell so many lies that they forget themselves whether they have lied or told the truth in the past.

A simple question like; "Have you eaten here before?" can make them freeze in horror because they don't know what they've said in the past, in many cases the truth is perfectly acceptable. It really can be quite comical to watch.

[pjclark1]

Ha.....I guess there's no chance of the real uglies being fooled by the 'hansum man' line.........fair play you ain't ever gonna fall for it......

:lol:

Oh too true. As much as I would LIKE to believe it, all I have to do is look in the mirror.

But, I sure can get a laugh out of the game being played. And, it IS a game... a fun one at that.

I'm not sure there is any fooling being done.

I once asked a friend (bar girl) how she could date such ugly customers.

Her reply was "you foreigners are all big men with white skin, big noses and sharp faces, you all look the same to me!"

And she was sort of right, look at the Thai girls faces, they don't really match any western values of beauty, they are an acquired taste, like spicy food.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Some people tell so many lies that they forget themselves whether they have lied or told the truth in the past.

A simple question like; "Have you eaten here before?" can make them freeze in horror because they don't know what they've said in the past, in many cases the truth is perfectly acceptable. It really can be quite comical to watch.

Yup I've known liars like this. Put them under the slightest bit of pressure for fast answers, and they crumble. All of a sudden, a simple and innocuous leading question appears to baffle them.

And yup it's pretty comical to watch...so long as you're not fiscally or emotionally exposed, I suppose.

Y'all can believe what you wish of course, but a world where everybody told the truth all the time...hard to see how that could be anything but utopian.

[Artfullmover]

Its easier than you think to tell if a Bar Girl is Lying - Just watch her mouth it will be moving.