Ineffective Equipment Blamed For Death Of Bomb Disposal Officers In Thai South

[webfact]

Equipment blamed for pair's death

By Somchai Samart

The Nation

The head of Narathiwat's bomb squad has blamed poor and ineffective equipment for the death of two bomb disposal officers and injuries to nine others in a blast on Saturday in Sungai Padi district.

The bomb exploded as 50-year-old Pol Sen Sgt Maj Kitti Mingsuk and Pol Sgt Maj Kritsada Thong-or were trying to defuse it.

They attended the scene after police received a report two men on a motorcycle had placed a suspicious box on Chattrawarin Road.

Police Sen Sgt Maj Chaen Warongkapaisit, chief of Narathiwat police's bomb squad, said militants used powerful C4 explosive with the aim of killing bomb detectors. "The explosive powder used on Saturday could have produced 20-30 bombs normally used in terrorist activities."

Chaen said devices used by the bomb disposal officers to try to block phone calls failed to function as there were signal poles of a private phone company 100 metres from the scene which sent a stronger telephone signal.

"Our devices only worked for 5-10 minutes. They could not offset the powerful signal of the telephone company. This was the weak spot that allowed militants to work successfully.' Chaen called for higher authorities to seek cooperation with private firms to cut phone signals for 30-50 minutes to allow bomb disposal police to work at places where bombs were found.

He said the bomb suit that Kitti wore was old. He got the outfit in 2004 and it had only a five-year expiration period. And it was only made to withstand an explosion by a 1.5 pound device - while the bomb on Saturday was 5 kilograms.

The bomb squad also had problems with the robot, which malfunctioned on that day. It was produced by Lanna Technical College in Chiang Mai and was not as efficient as imported ones.

"I have seen bomb detector robots in the US which are controlled by remote control or computers in a room. They are equipped with missiles and a camera. Our robots are controlled in open space and not via remote control function. Officials risk their lives since they have to work close to the bomb scene,'' Chaen explained.

He revealed there was only one imported robot used in the far South, despite bombs being made and planted there regularly.

Deputy Police Chief Maj-General Adul Saengsingkaew visited the area to follow up on the case. He conceded that equipment malfunctions were to blame for the death of the two officers. But he said militants were now using controls from car anti-theft devices instead of phones to set off blasts - and police could not block this yet.

-- The Nation 2011-01-03

[Credo]

So, let's see, the phone jammer didn't work; the bomb suit was expired and probably wouldn't have protected him from a large explosion anyway and the robot didn't work.

For an area with as many bombs as they have, it sounds like they might want to be a little better prepared.

Condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the deceased and injured.

[beano2274]

The Jammer system is outdated and can be overcome, the Militants know exactly where and how to place the bombs, the Army need the equipment but it costs money.

I have seen the robots being demonstrated at my University, it was a remote controlled one, however in my opinion it was not up to the standard seen in other countries, but it seemed to be a step in the right direction for using Thai Industry.

[crusty]

The Jammer system is outdated and can be overcome, the Militants know exactly where and how to place the bombs, the Army need the equipment but it costs money.

I have seen the robots being demonstrated at my University, it was a remote controlled one, however in my opinion it was not up to the standard seen in other countries, but it seemed to be a step in the right direction for using Thai Industry.

Also no wonder why so many police/army are being killed while on patrol in their pickup trucks, when they are driving just the standard model instead of one with reinforced doors and floors. Dohhhhh !

[asiawatcher]

If the box is suspicious why not shoot it? Would that not trigger the devise/explosive, and far safer from a distance? I am no explosives person but a bullet over distance seems far safer that some poor underpaid man standing there with sports padding thinking he has a chance! You can't wonder at the waste of life - how insane and what minds are these that intend to continually kill? Round em up send the back to their beloved Malaysia and let them live amongst their own. Tear down the Mosques, symbols of terrorists in themselves. Give them no place to congregate or listen to some crazy Imam telling them it is god's will and they will be rewarded in death! What a crock.... How stupid all these people must be to continue to accept the brainwashing so let's not be continually politically 'correct' in tolerance of this insanity. Take a stand and do it now before it's too late.

[geriatrickid]

Why is there underfunding for proper equipment?

By SUPALAK GANJANAKHUNDEE

THE NATION Published on January 29, 2010

Last January, the Army spent about Bt200 million to purchase 222 GT200 bomb detectors, with the cost averaging at Bt900,000 per unit. Later, some Army agencies purchased a variety of software cards, bringing the cost per unit up to more than Bt1 million.Director of the Forensic Science Institute, Dr Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunant, followed up by purchasing six units of the GT200 at Bt1.1 million per set.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I do not feel embarrassed if the bomb detector is proven ineffective. Personally, I have never handled the device myself. But my people have used it and it is accurate every time. Long long time ago, people believed that the Earth is flat and anyone who said otherwise faced execution. Things which are not visible does not necessarily mean they do not exist.”

Attributed to Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand

I suggest inquiries be sent to Dr. Pornthip. I am sure she can answer them all.

[earthpig]

"Our robots are controlled in open space and not via remote control function."

the WHOLE point of the robot is to avoid placing a human in harms way, so of course it needs remote control. The US has several systems that are remote control and could never have defeated her enemy in Iraq without them. and thailand has precisely one such foreign made remote system in its fight against the moslem insurgency?

how long does it take for soldiers to figure out their leaders dont care about them?

[surangw]

and of course the phone company could not shut down service to the area and loose valuable cell time charges

[Thongkorn]

Why do there British Still use jamming devices , even in London for suspect bombs,If they do not work, Also you can have remote controlled robots that work by wire, so no Micro wave or signals,Believe it or not these people who lay bombs and make them are not stupid, So bombs that are laid just destabilize making them unpredictable.Britain is losing many brave men who try and detected and dispose of these bombs, And they spend billions on better equipment and training, And at the end of the day you can only work with what is put in front of you, Blame the politions not the Army officers.Like they say , Mine is not to reason why but to do and Die.

[atyclb]

and of course the phone company could not shut down service to the area and loose valuable cell time charges

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." from a Thai

//link to BP removed//

In case the link to BKK post is not allowed, search Voranai Vanijaka opinion

Bought grades, sold souls an all-access pass through the halls of higher learning

• Published: 2/01/2011 at 12:00 AM

My intent is not to be critical or judgmental as I know it is not my society. Many complain about the lack of function and compare it to the west. Why compare to the west when Japan HK, Singapore are much closer.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Tywais
BP link removed per forum rules

[TAWP]

The bomb squad also had problems with the robot, which malfunctioned on that day. It was produced by Lanna Technical College in Chiang Mai and was not as efficient as imported ones.

Well, if they are going to plant bombs in BKK later they cannot be building too efficient robots to counter it...

[tomyummer]

They should just save the lives, money and time and send in dogs or monkeys to open the dam_n boxes. If it blows up, you know it was a bomb.

You think the bomb squads get enough funding? Heck no. Blame it on the red tape and blood red politicians.

Edited January 3, 2011 by tomyummer

[Bagwan]

Why do there British Still use jamming devices , even in London for suspect bombs,If they do not work, Also you can have remote controlled robots that work by wire, so no Micro wave or signals,Believe it or not these people who lay bombs and make them are not stupid, So bombs that are laid just destabilize making them unpredictable.Britain is losing many brave men who try and detected and dispose of these bombs, And they spend billions on better equipment and training, And at the end of the day you can only work with what is put in front of you, Blame the politions not the Army officers.Like they say , Mine is not to reason why but to do and Die.

I look over the Internet sites of the BBC and a couple of UK newspapers every day. I have not seen any reports of bombs in the UK for some considerable time. I am sure that fatalities would be make the front page.

The Army has its hand full in Afghanistan and my understanding is that a bomb disposal expert on a six month posting will deal with between 50 and 85 bombs. Fatalities for the year are in single figures. Why, in Afghanistan of all places they don't use a controlled explosion instead of defusing them is beyond my ken.

Governments of all stripes send their Armed Forces into battle with out of date equipment.

I do not understand why a police force needs bomb disposal teams. What do the Army do? Stand watching at a safe distance? Would somebody ask the Minister for Defence why the Army needs 30 year old Swiss tanks when they are crying out for modern bomb disposal gear to meet a real and present threat?

[Thongkorn]

Why do there British Still use jamming devices , even in London for suspect bombs,If they do not work, Also you can have remote controlled robots that work by wire, so no Micro wave or signals,Believe it or not these people who lay bombs and make them are not stupid, So bombs that are laid just destabilize making them unpredictable.Britain is losing many brave men who try and detected and dispose of these bombs, And they spend billions on better equipment and training, And at the end of the day you can only work with what is put in front of you, Blame the politions not the Army officers.Like they say , Mine is not to reason why but to do and Die.

I look over the Internet sites of the BBC and a couple of UK newspapers every day. I have not seen any reports of bombs in the UK for some considerable time. I am sure that fatalities would be make the front page.

The Army has its hand full in Afghanistan and my understanding is that a bomb disposal expert on a six month posting will deal with between 50 and 85 bombs. Fatalities for the year are in single figures. Why, in Afghanistan of all places they don't use a controlled explosion instead of defusing them is beyond my ken.

Governments of all stripes send their Armed Forces into battle with out of date equipment.

I do not understand why a police force needs bomb disposal teams. What do the Army do? Stand watching at a safe distance? Would somebody ask the Minister for Defence why the Army needs 30 year old Swiss tanks when they are crying out for modern bomb disposal gear to meet a real and present threat?

Correct there have not been bombs in the Uk for a while , because of good intell,And you do not advertise how you deal with bombs. But i agree with you totaly.

[phaethon]

And you do not advertise how you deal with bombs.

No you don't... you post it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRWVAXf0rhs

[Buchholz]

Why is there underfunding for proper equipment?

THE NATION Published on January 29, 2010

Last January, the Army spent about Bt200 million to purchase 222 GT200 bomb detectors

Sorry, to cut your irrelevant year-old news article short, but it's not an issue of shortage of funding.

The bomb suits imported from your Canada cost 2 million baht apiece.

.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Buchholz

[geriatrickid]

They should just save the lives, money and time and send in dogs or monkeys to open the dam_n boxes. If it blows up, you know it was a bomb.

You think the bomb squads get enough funding? Heck no. Blame it on the red tape and blood red politicians.

So are you volunteering then?

The two deceased personnel were attempting to deactivate the device. How would a dog or monkey have done any better or have even been able to open the package?

Dogs need a handler. In order to operate efficiently the dog and the handler form an emotional and functional bond. The dog in effect becomes part of the handler's life and family. When there is a canine injury, the handler is also wounded. If you were to approach the typical handler and say, yo, we're just going to send your dog in and have him gnaw at the explosive and see if it blows up, the handler would most likely take his fist and introduce it to your face.

There was more than enough funding available for the unexploded ordinance teams. As I pointed out earlier, the bomb detector fiasco sucked away alot of it. The decision wasn't made by "bloody red politicians", but was a military procurement decision. Dr. Pornthip, gave a public display of her skills when she endorsed the device. She is now being cited as the reliable expert in the Del Pinto death inquiry in Pai. Go after the military on this one, not the politicians since they were just relying on the expertise of the beloved Thai military.

[geriatrickid]

Why is there underfunding for proper equipment?

THE NATION Published on January 29, 2010

Last January, the Army spent about Bt200 million to purchase 222 GT200 bomb detectors

Sorry, to cut your irrelevant year-old news article short, but it's not an issue of shortage of funding.

The bomb suits imported from your Canada cost 2 million baht apiece.

What are you on about? The expenditures on the bomb detection devices formed part of the unit's budget. Everyone has a budget to respect, even in Thailand. Those devices gobbled up B227million approx. What bomb suits and my Canada? <deleted>? Are you saying bomb suits should have been purchased? How the heck do you expect southern troops to support EOD models which require power generation, communications and hi tech servicing when they are driving around in beat up Toyotas and can't even operate a Thai robot? Do you even know what kind of equipment the Canadian field engineers deployed to Afghanistan to deal with IEDS similar to the ones in Thailand? It wasn't the suits you refer to. Can you please take a deep breath and just type clearly what you want to say.

BTW, how come you haven't found away to blame the military procurement screwup on Thaksin? Oh wait, it's because the guys that made the purchase decision are the ones that participated in the military coup. Neve rmind.

[Buchholz]

Sorry, to cut your irrelevant year-old news article short, but it's not an issue of shortage of funding.

The bomb suits imported from your Canada cost 2 million baht apiece.

What are you on about? The expenditures on the bomb detection devices formed part of the unit's budget. Everyone has a budget to respect, even in Thailand. Those devices gobbled up B227million approx. What bomb suits and my Canada? <deleted>? Are you saying bomb suits should have been purchased?

Not at all. I'm saying they were purchased from a Canadian firm for 2 million baht apiece.

How the heck do you expect southern troops to support EOD models which require power generation, communications and hi tech servicing when they are driving around in beat up Toyotas and can't even operate a Thai robot? Do you even know what kind of equipment the Canadian field engineers deployed to Afghanistan to deal with IEDS similar to the ones in Thailand? It wasn't the suits you refer to. Can you please take a deep breath and just type clearly what you want to say.

I did. It's you that needs to take a deep breath and read what people write instead of launching into unsaid suppositions and off-topic diatribes like the below example:

BTW, how come you haven't found away to blame the military procurement screwup on Thaksin? Oh wait, it's because the guys that made the purchase decision are the ones that participated in the military coup. Neve rmind.