Pigeon English

[deejah]

we could have a debate which language is more difficult to learn

English grammar, tenses, pronunciation for thais

thai pronunciation, tones, the alphabet and no exposure to it prior to thailand

for me both receiving and giving in communication

pigeon English is fine

in fact i learn about thai grammar

as the English from thais is often a translation

look around

there are a lot more bar beer than beer bar

so yes in a sense my English has gotten worse since coming here

but i enjoy putting words together in a way that will get my point across

(i admit i do sometimes cringe and roll my eyes when i hear my own voice)

anyway no matter how many times i say

where are you going

where are you from

what are you doing

i still hear

where you go

whee you from

what you do

thank goodness for where are you

as for where have you been (blank stare)

[pjclark1]

i still hear

where you go

whee you from

what you do

Which is very strange as Thais say

go where? (bai nai)

come from? (maa jaak)

do what? (tam arai)

Surely if you want to speak pigeon English you should do it based on their speech patterns?

[deejah]

i still hear

where you go

whee you from

what you do

Which is very strange as Thais say

go where? (bai nai)

come from? (maa jaak)

do what? (tam arai)

Surely if you want to speak pigeon English you should do it based on their speech patterns?

bad my

[sbk]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

[pjclark1]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

Sorry my bird bad

Still, a pigeon makes a far better pet for your peeve!

[phaethon]

It's from Pigeon English that we get the word 'coup'...

Anyway, making fun of how Thai people speak is just razy lacism...

Edited January 5, 2011 by phaethon

[WhingeingMoaners]

Don't worry it is not only you who cringes at hearing someone communicating in poor English. Many locals who have a good level of English language can sympathise with your distaste owing to the fact that they often hear farangs colloquially conversing in rather coarse dialogue. For example, we will often hear a certain kind of Brit who visits Thailand expressing their pleasure for Thailand in a somewhat distinctively common way; such as "nice 'ere innit?" instead of "it's nice here, isn't it?".

[Loz]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

New year, fresh start and what do you know. SBK and I agree on something. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas!

Pidgin English does help communicate with the natives but as pointed out, not as well as speaking broken fouled up mispronounced THAI :jap:

[richardjm65]

I also cringe at pidgin, but sometimes it really is the only way to communicate. What I do find unnerving is the native English speaker who continues in pidgin even when he's speaking to a fellow countryman. He's all "him speak me", uses only one tense and frequently repeats words for emphasis such as "him go market work work work". If they carry the habit with them when they go home, they'll probably get extra handouts for being aliens.

[chuang]

Same same, no have...

[yermanee]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

It is my experience that most Thais do not seek to improve their English. The majority just want to understand what you're saying and for this the pidgin English is a usefull tool.

I agree that other than that it is ridiculous to use pidgin.

yermanee

[Moonrakers]

Don't worry it is not only you who cringes at hearing someone communicating in poor English. Many locals who have a good level of English language can sympathise with your distaste owing to the fact that they often hear farangs colloquially conversing in rather coarse dialogue. For example, we will often hear a certain kind of Brit who visits Thailand expressing their pleasure for Thailand in a somewhat distinctively common way; such as "nice 'ere innit?" instead of "it's nice here, isn't it?".

That's just plain snobbery pal.

[Moonrakers]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

You learn something new everyday. I've always struggled with that one, until now.

[IanForbes]

If they carry the habit with them when they go home, they'll probably get extra handouts for being aliens.

We need those handouts so we can afford to come back and speak pidgin to the pigeons. Those are all that will listen to us.

Besides, us old-folks have always been treated as aliens. I'm beginning to think we are.

[sbk]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

It is my experience that most Thais do not seek to improve their English. The majority just want to understand what you're saying and for this the pidgin English is a usefull tool.

I agree that other than that it is ridiculous to use pidgin.

yermanee

Odd cause my experience in the years I have lived here has been the reverse of that.

But even odder are the people who do not seek to speak Thai despite the fact that they live in Thailand

[StreetCowboy]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

New year, fresh start and what do you know. SBK and I agree on something. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas!

Pidgin English does help communicate with the natives but as pointed out, not as well as speaking broken fouled up mispronounced THAI :jap:

Maybe in your country. Most of us get by in the lingua franca - pidgin English.

SMS just encourage also.

If this is a peeve-lovers' convention, I get peeved by poor spelling / trendy abbreviations more than omitted words; most phones have a perfectly good predictive spell-checker, and so even SMS should comprise properly spelt (spell-checker insists spelled) words, in my opinion. "Y0"? - see - its meaningless, but if you write in full with a predictive spell checker the spell checker will make sure "why not"' comes out OK.

Anyway, it is cruel to keep pet peeves, so I will let mine go, I think...

SC

[deejah]

Anyway, it is cruel to keep pet peeves, so I will let mine go, I think...

SC

CUTE thanks

and super great advice

i take to heart

off topic but appropriate:

dont sweat the petty things

and dont pet the sweaty things

g carlin

Edited January 17, 2011 by deejah

[StreetCowboy]

Anyway, it is cruel to keep pet peeves, so I will let mine go, I think...

SC

CUTE thanks

and super great advice

i take to heart

off topic but appropriate:

dont sweat the petty things

and dont pet the sweaty things

g carlin

On the topic of getting peeved I get confused when Americans say "pissed" when they mean 'baitey'. I always have to re-read to distinguish whether they meant 'steaming' or 'fuming'

SC

[phaethon]

On the topic of getting peeved I get confused when Americans say "pissed" when they mean 'baitey'. I always have to re-read to distinguish whether they meant 'steaming' or 'fuming'

You should see them trying to buy a 'fanny pack' in London. Or a Brit trying to 'bum a fag' in New York

[billd766]

If you ever go to Papua New Guinea pidgin English is a national language.

With something over 800 dialects you need some common ground.

[Thai at Heart]

Pidgin English is one of the reasons why English has become the dominant language globally.

It is still possible to understand English even if one massacres it grammatically.

Where you go?

You come when?

Try speaking broken Mandarin and see how many people can understand you?

[pjclark1]

Pidgin English is one of the reasons why English has become the dominant language globally.

It is still possible to understand English even if one massacres it grammatically.

Where you go?

You come when?

Try speaking broken Mandarin and see how many people can understand you?

As I have previously pointed out "Where you go" does not fit into any Thai speech pattern, so any English speaker saying that is just making a fool of himself.

Bai nai (or Bai sai) literally translates as "go where?", Thais usually assume the subject so they don't include the 'you'.

Most of my problems with understanding Thais is their complete refusal to speak Thai to me.

They just spout nonsense pidgin English, I have to tell em their English is no good, why don't we speak Thai.

Edited January 19, 2011 by pjclark1

[StreetCowboy]

Pidgin English is one of the reasons why English has become the dominant language globally.

It is still possible to understand English even if one massacres it grammatically.

Where you go?

You come when?

Try speaking broken Mandarin and see how many people can understand you?

As I have previously pointed out "Where you go" does not fit into any Thai speech pattern, so any English speaker saying that is just making a fool of himself.

Bai nai (or Bai sai) literally translates as "go where?", Thais usually assume the subject so they don't include the 'you'.

Most of my problems with understanding Thais is their complete refusal to speak Thai to me.

They just spout nonsense pidgin English, I have to tell em their English is no good, why don't we speak Thai.

The fact that pidgin English does not follow the same grammatical practices as Thai doesn't seem to make it difficult for Thais to learn,

I suppose pdgin English is probably different everywhere you go, and the fact that there are no agreed rules probably enhances its diversity, so it is surprising just how consistent it is, and how easy to understand.

I suppose if I was an English teacher who couldn't leave his work in the classroom, it might bother me - just as I get a little disturbed by protruding nails in signboards, and sharp corners on bracketry - but I enjoy conversing in pidgin English as an alternative to not conversing at all. When communicating with other English speakers, normally I only use pidgin English in SMS.

SC

[tim armstrong]

sorry, pet peeve and I hate being the spelling police but its not pigeon, its pidgin. pigeon is a bird.

And speaking pidgin English does not help the Thais who want to improve their English. Better you learn how to speak Thai to communicate, IMO

Yes, Yes, and Yes SBK ! I couldn't agree more. Occasional English teaching with Thai friends who want to improve their English does help me avoid the use of 'pidgin'English, but its hard when you have lived here for a while and your Thai is not so good. (See, that was a real struggle to write correct sentence )

[wolf5370]

Don't worry it is not only you who cringes at hearing someone communicating in poor English. Many locals who have a good level of English language can sympathise with your distaste owing to the fact that they often hear farangs colloquially conversing in rather coarse dialogue. For example, we will often hear a certain kind of Brit who visits Thailand expressing their pleasure for Thailand in a somewhat distinctively common way; such as "nice 'ere innit?" instead of "it's nice here, isn't it?".

or even "It is nice here, is it not?"

I suppose it depends to whom you are speaking. If it is someone that you want to learn English correctly, then its not a good example to set; if it is someone you meet passing and just wish to get across a message in a quick, concise and easily understood way, then choosing a dialect they understand makes sense - even if it is a concocted one. It can also be somewhat patronising to continually correct someone you have no vested interest in and in Asia may well cause loss of face and the difficulties that may cause - this does not mean you have to partake by replying in pidgin. If I speak to someone in poor Thai and it is understood, I would expect them to reply in good, grammatical, Thai and not the same poor Thai I launched at them.