Thai Police Launch Major Crackdown On Drugs

[outre99]

Selling drugs to kids is terrible and inexcusable. But so is selling to them alcohol and cigarettes. Kids need to be protected for sure. But the world is not populated just by children. So why oh why do governments and posters here insist on treating all of us as children. Most of us enjoy a cold beer, a nice Cuban, or an occasional joint without causing any harm to ourselves or others. We don't need a nanny state saving us from ourselves. US had proved clearly that despite trillions of dollars prohibition of any sort doesn't work. But still the puritan minorities make it politically impossible to even discuss legalization. Crying shame really.

[norwayeagle]

Selling drugs to kids is terrible and inexcusable. But so is selling to them alcohol and cigarettes. Kids need to be protected for sure. But the world is not populated just by children. So why oh why do governments and posters here insist on treating all of us as children. Most of us enjoy a cold beer, a nice Cuban, or an occasional joint without causing any harm to ourselves or others. We don't need a nanny state saving us from ourselves. US had proved clearly that despite trillions of dollars prohibition of any sort doesn't work. But still the puritan minorities make it politically impossible to even discuss legalization. Crying shame really.

Yes.It is a Crying shame.

[Deeral]

Great way to round up dissidents.

I expect they have found ways of beating suspects up without showing too many obvious signs and ways of blackmailing them too.

Drugs are NOT the cause of the problems - they are the symptom - arresting small-time suspects is just another example of how utterly ineffective and incompetent the police are from top to bottom.

How can you respect a officer who is arrestng you when the day before he was asking for a 100 baht bribe for a fake motoring offence?

[jayjay0]

And not one suspect seriously injured or killed. How times have changed since the middle of the last decade.

Not that much really, they still arrest the small time dealers, those who pay are usually protected. I know what you are saying they are not mass murdering them now at least for the time being. Maybe the budget does not allow for more bullets.

As usual your superiority complex is showing through.

Did it ever occur to you that if there was no small time dealers the drug problem would be a lot less. Yes most of the big boys are still free but if they have no one to sell to then what?

You make it sound like get the big boys and no more problem. You seem to forget that there is a line up of people to take there place. The street dealers do not have a line up of people to replace them. There customers for the most part just go to another dealer, not take there place. The recreational user might even quit if it is not easely avalable.

This is in no way a statement to not get the higher up's in the chain. It is just my opinion that if you dry up ease of availability a lot of the problems will be solved.:jap:

[Colabamumbai]

And not one suspect seriously injured or killed. How times have changed since the middle of the last decade.

Making small amounts of it legal is a good option as Mexico has last year with marijuana, less than one ounce, cocaine, i think 500 milligrams, so half a gram, and heroin about 200 milligrams. These amounts are considered to be legal possession by an individual, for personal use. This does not take the drugs and money away from the larger dealers but it to some degree decriminalzes the act of of possession and usually avoids a criminal record, as does possession of less than an ounce of pot in Canada will do now

Not that much really, they still arrest the small time dealers, those who pay are usually protected. I know what you are saying they are not mass murdering them now at least for the time being. Maybe the budget does not allow for more bullets.

As usual your superiority complex is showing through.

Did it ever occur to you that if there was no small time dealers the drug problem would be a lot less. Yes most of the big boys are still free but if they have no one to sell to then what?

You make it sound like get the big boys and no more problem. You seem to forget that there is a line up of people to take there place. The street dealers do not have a line up of people to replace them. There customers for the most part just go to another dealer, not take there place. The recreational user might even quit if it is not easely avalable.

This is in no way a statement to not get the higher up's in the chain. It is just my opinion that if you dry up ease of availability a lot of the problems will be solved.:jap:

[Deeral]

And not one suspect seriously injured or killed. How times have changed since the middle of the last decade.

Making small amounts of it legal is a good option as Mexico has last year with marijuana, less than one ounce, cocaine, i think 500 milligrams, so half a gram, and heroin about 200 milligrams. These amounts are considered to be legal possession by an individual, for personal use. This does not take the drugs and money away from the larger dealers but it to some degree decriminalzes the act of of possession and usually avoids a criminal record, as does possession of less than an ounce of pot in Canada will do now

Not that much really, they still arrest the small time dealers, those who pay are usually protected. I know what you are saying they are not mass murdering them now at least for the time being. Maybe the budget does not allow for more bullets.

As usual your superiority complex is showing through.

Did it ever occur to you that if there was no small time dealers the drug problem would be a lot less. Yes most of the big boys are still free but if they have no one to sell to then what?

You make it sound like get the big boys and no more problem. You seem to forget that there is a line up of people to take there place. The street dealers do not have a line up of people to replace them. There customers for the most part just go to another dealer, not take there place. The recreational user might even quit if it is not easely avalable.

This is in no way a statement to not get the higher up's in the chain. It is just my opinion that if you dry up ease of availability a lot of the problems will be solved.:jap:

Unfortunately this post by Colabamunbai simply shows that the poster has no understanding of the issues surrounding recreational drug use. I do wish people would either read up or think before spouting such nonsense.

[Bakseedaa]

Silom has had raids nothing targeting westerners only local Thais. Seen Silom Soi 2 and 4 raided and a number of arrests in DJ Station.

Silom Police are offering cash rewards for info on local Drug Dealers and it seems to have worked with word that the street has dried up considerably.

I have never seen it this tough and its good to see its truly working. I know of 6 staff in restaurants and Bars that failed pee tests and got arrested and cant get out for 3 months. Only problem is 1 of them is on HIV medication and that often triggers a positive result for drugs when I fact they have not taken anything illegal. Thai Police don't seem to understand this and further education is required.

Its suprising however the amount of boys in Silom that pass the pee test and are not worried. Drug usage amongst the Gay Silom crowd is much less then people think.

The police say that the Thais can take ya ba on the weekends and if they have to do a pee or swab test Monday for an employer it will not show up in the body, so it is the drug of choice as opposed to some other drugs that are available, that stay in the system longer.

Like my doctor at the hospital for all the tests for Work Permit, Syphalis etc..Said to me, "Your urine is a little cloudy." Ah yes I replied I should have taken more water yesterday, to dilute any residue in my body.

Just drink 3 or 4 bottles of Red Bull and you will pass any piss test..... within 20 hours..

[jackr]

And not one suspect seriously injured or killed. How times have changed since the middle of the last decade.

Yes, what a shame. Although the guy is slightly deranged, KhunT had the right idea there.

Anyway, is it really the best idea to have the constabulary involved in this 'Crackdown On Drugs'?

[Buchholz]

And not one suspect seriously injured or killed. How times have changed since the middle of the last decade.

Yes, what a shame. Although the guy is slightly deranged, KhunT had the right idea there.

Anyway, is it really the best idea to have the constabulary involved in this 'Crackdown On Drugs'?

If they continue to arrest their own, then yes...

btw... the wholesale slaughter of 2,500 non-prosecuted, un-convicted people is not "the right idea" IMHO

Excerpt from:

Thai police arrest 21,000 in drug sweep

Police General Wichean Potephosree said five suspected major dealers were arrested, including Police Senior Sargent-Major Pairote, who was fired from his Bangkok post in October.

He was arrested in Phetchaburi with 120,000 speed pills in a hidden compartment of his car.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/01/07/Thai-police-arrest-21000-in-drug-sweep/UPI-36021294424068/#ixzz1ASRiIBt0

UPI - January 7, 2010

Edited January 8, 2011 by Buchholz

[MAJIC]

Metropolitan Police Bureau: 4,244 arrested for drug-related crimes during New Year: 640,000 amphetamine pills, 10 kg of ice, and 30 kg of cannabis seized /MCOT

Wow?? how much damage will impact the people who hook to Amphetamine pills?? Cannabis is alright in my opinion ( I do not smoke ) but, many people around my area are using cannabis. However, the worst drug already proven damage is prescription drug. Statistic already came out in America. But, in Thailand Amphetamine is still new I hope the Thais know how dangerous this drug can do to a person. I am standing tall.

A common misconception.

Cannabis can cause Scizophrenia,Paranoia,Depression, Deprivation of drive and lack of interest in life,

among many other less serious side effects.

Look it up!

Although this argument is a bit off topic I would like to comment as well:

The unlucky 0.5% of the population who is diagnosed as schizophrenic started showing signs of the disorder one day, mostly in early adulthood. Cannabis can "activate" it, but it is not the "cause"of the disorder... If not cannabis use, some other event would propably have triggered it anyway. (if it truly caused schhizophrenia, imagine the number of patients that would have emerged since the 60's)

As for paranoia, sure, while under the influence, espcially unexperienced users can become paranoid, until the effect wears out. Depression, well we could argue the opposite would be more often true, cannabis being a better antidepressant than many commercial antidepressants.

People having severe problems with cannabis are usually people with problems in the first place, who start using cannabis.

For adult, healthy individuals, cannabis IMO is pretty harmless certainly less dangerous than alcohol.

Your suggestion to "look it up" doesnt bring us much further either, since there is so much biased information from both pro and contra sides

I dont think,the Worlds Medical Profession would agree with most of your casual summary.

Edited January 8, 2011 by MAJIC

[TheyCallmeScooter]

taking the small guys out does not stop the drugs being sold...Same shit next day.

And taking the big guys out would?

lol. The Demand forces the Supply. Not the other way around.

Then again, they took out Escobar and that solved the supply problem in Columbia so maybe you're right. Wake up, people. Use the brains you have, if you are lucky enough to have serviceable ones.

This is a war that can't be won. Criminals and addicts will only get more violent and desperate as the supply goes down and prices increase.

Random testing of civilians and then arresting them if their tests come back positive?

Actually, it can be successfully won. Through regulation rather than Prohibition. Try getting yourself some pseudo-ephedrine. Pretty freaking hard.

'random' testing of civilians is a gross miscarriage of justice and is basically begging to be abused by corrupt individuals given that power. Lucky for us, there are no corrupt policeman. That would be a horrific scenario, if there were.

Maybe if they were paid decently they would attract some decent people? Just a thought.

Maybe if Winona Ryder had more money, she wouldn't have shop-lifted.

Stop trying to find illogical 'solutions' to very simple problems.

If you ve seen the effect on humans and their families that have been exposed to this this and any drug dealer in the category supplier or manufacturer should get the death sentence without any fuzz. Send out a strong message.

You mean a stronger message than the 2275 executed in 3 months in Thaksin's Drug War?

Or do you mean that it needs to be 2275 every 3 months?

I don't understand your intelligent thought process. Can you please extrapolate on what exactly "a strong message" consists of?

It seems that there have been millions or hundreds of millions of very "strong messages" sent over the last 40 years. Why are we still talking about it if all that's needed is "a strong message"?

[TheyCallmeScooter]

A common misconception.

Cannabis can cause Scizophrenia,Paranoia,Depression, Deprivation of drive and lack of interest in life,

among many other less serious side effects.

Look it up!

Reading posts like yours on ThaiVisa and other forums can cause Schizophrenia, Paranoia, Depression and can sap Motivation levels and might induce my requesting my username be changed to whybotherII. Among many other less serious side-effects.

I'd tell you to "look it up", but someone too lazy to post supporting 'evidence' will certainly be too lazy to actually look up anything.

You realise something like 70% of the US adult population has smoked pot, right? It's effectively decriminalised in most developed nations. Legal in Holland. California had a Proposition to regulate it recently, narrowly missed out - the next one will be passed. Nixon was a tool. The current US President has admitted to smoking pot and doing cocaine in his youth. Some Republicans would no doubt disagree, but he looks pretty sharp to me ('seared brain', notwithstanding). You'd have to be an idiot to smoke pot (in my opinion), but I would not kill or imprison people who disagreed with my opinions. Not even stoners. It's my opinion you'd have to be a moronic idiot to smoke cigarettes, and I smoke plenty of them. What I do is stupid, but being forced to accept the reality that people are being incarcerated for doing something less stupid than my pack-a-day habit? It's outrageous.

Ecstasy will be legalised in the UK within a few years:

Former Britain Home Office Minister & Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth To Argue For Legalization Of All Drugs

British Drug Tzar Professor David Nutt: "The only drugs more harmful than alcohol are heroin, cocaine, barbiturates & methadone. LSD & ecstasy less harmful than tobacco."

Legalise all drugs: Britain Chief Constable demands end to 'immoral laws'

When The Guardian is demanding an end to the insanity with Editorials titled Prohibition's failed. Time for a new drugs policy and The war on drugs is immoral idiocy whilst the former President of Brazil is attempting to save South America from becoming failed states like Mexico (Fernando Henrique Cardoso: "It is time to admit the obvious. The 'war on drugs' has failed."), it's inevitable that it will be sooner rather than later that the madness will end. When it does, it will end with the anticlimactic puff seen in the Netherlands and Portugal and Argentina when they decriminalised.

Prohibition kills. The blood of every innocent is on the hands of the world's governments (who all manufacture illicit drugs). Only the very deluded (or the very corrupted) are ever confused about whether Supply creates Demand...or whether Demand Creates Supply.

The arguments I make are irrefutable unless you are able to re-code human DNA. Until you can, you cannot refute the sheer logic evident in the above arguments.

[Deeral]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Soi 6 is chock-a-block with addicts, those who van't pass a single day without a major fix of alcohol - the drug of choice of the west..

The damage it does to the brain is clearly demonstrated in this thread

[bitterbatter]

How can black Africans openly deal drugs in the Nana area of Sukhumvit and escape detection? They stick out a mile - so I've heard!

I've been told that they have an average of six months on the street before getting busted and then they get replaced.

In reference to the percentage of dealers versus users being busted ( 0.5%), I think its is kind of sad and more dealers need to be focused on instead of these broad sweeps of the general public.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

In reference to the percentage of dealers versus users being busted ( 0.5%), I think its is kind of sad and more dealers need to be focused on instead of these broad sweeps of the general public.

A mere user being arrested and incarcerated for their 'crime' is nothing less than an outrage and a crime against humanity. Incarcerating rather than medically treating the victims of addiction and despair is unfathomably cruel, illogically unproductive (even counter-productive), and an outrageous abuse of state power. The millions of innocents suffering in US penitentiaries is tantamount to a form of genocide (who cares if they are still breathing when they emerge - temporarily - from Hell, damaged and abused and broken by what they were forced to endure by the twin powers of ignorance and evil...in some obvious ways, it's even more cruel to impose a life of cyclical misery on them than if they were simply Thaksin'd).

In the US, it's a racist evil as well - not merely puritanical. For anyone somehow oblivious to the outrageously unacceptable, ludicrous and clearly racist disparity found in mandatory minimum sentences for possession of cocaine v possession of (freebase) cocaine. The former is snorted by upper-class whites (for the most part), the latter is smoked by lower-class blacks as it's all they can afford. Makes sense that one should be dealt with ONE HUNDRED TIMES harsher. Can you guess which one?

Distribution of just 5 grams of crack carries a minimum 5-year federal prison sentence, while for powder cocaine, distribution of 500 grams – 100 times the amount of crack cocaine – carries the same sentence.

The racial disparity in the application of mandatory minimum sentences for crack cocaine is particularly disturbing. African Americans comprise the vast majority of those convicted of crack cocaine offenses, while the majority of those convicted for powder cocaine offenses are white. This is true, despite the fact that whites and Hispanics form the majority of crack users. For example, in 2003, whites constituted 7.8% and African Americans constituted more than 80% of the defendants sentenced under the harsh federal crack cocaine laws, despite the fact that more than 66% of crack cocaine users in the United States are white or Hispanic. Due in large part to the sentencing disparity based on the form of the drug, African Americans serve substantially more time in prison for drug offenses than do whites.

Also due in large part to mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses, from 1994 to 2003, the difference between the average time African American offenders served in prison increased by 77%, compared to an increase of 28% for white drug offenders. African Americans now serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense at 58.7 months, as whites do for a violent offense at 61.7 months.

I am addicted to cigarettes and it's an addiction that may well be the death of me, in the end. I had a fairly advantageous upbringing and access to an elitist education. I have no (good) excuse for my addiction (perhaps merely failure of society to properly educate on the dangers of nicotine addiction but hardly a mitigating excuse)...but now that I feel it's power....

Do people understand why addicts use drugs? It's for medicating purposes - they are in pain. Oh, it's convenient to imagine that they're all evil junkies, lazy and selfish and a scourge on society. I mean, when you're in pain, you don't go smash a car window and steal the entertainment system, hock it and go shoot up some smack right? You'd go see a doctor who'd prescribe licit medication.

But I'm not talking about that kind of pain. I'm talking about pain at a level where coping without the numbing effect of hard drug use is an untenable prospect for them. Pain of childhood abuse, pain of memories of unspeakable personal tragedies, pain of the shame of their failure to cope with what no one could be expected to cope with, pain of the frustrations that are inevitable when a child is not given adequate protection from a cruel world or not given adequate opportunities for education or who is forced to live in a world they simply cannot understand and expected to participate in a society they simply cannot identify with or relate to. This is why addicts abuse drugs. Someone nailed it earlier; "it beats living as a nobody earning 187 baht / day".

Society fails drug addicts when they were children. The pain of living sober becomes an untenable prospect. They seek relief but don't have access to support networks or fancy white-coated shrinks willing to prescribe licit meds which are as strong or even stronger than the impure filth available on the street. Before they know it, they're addicted. Yes, they're addicted to the drugs, but not really. They become addicted to the feeling of NO PAIN.

What despicable animals! They want to live without unspeakable pain? OMG! They should be incarcerated with rapists and murderers and the mentally insane. That will teach them a lesson, right...

The animals aren't the addicts who cannot control their DNA-generated survivalist cravings for....NO PAIN.

The animals are those who, having failed these tragic souls, then have the sheer nerve to punish the victims of society's immense failures. Anyone this stupid or this cruel, who believes their victims should be incarcerated for trying to medicate for the pain they suffer as a result...anyone that cold and twisted should be lined up and....well, let's be diplomatic and line them up for trial in The Hague. Because that is sheer Evil, whether or not their evil is due to ignorance or malice. If you disagree, please use logic to explain why, or kindly present yourself to F'offsville. I lost my best friend to this exact Evil, and I really do hate anyone who is that unforgivably evil and who is unwilling to argue in their own defence.

You know, just my opinion.

[Deeral]

drugs are a social problem. In most countries and in particular Thailand they are completely unprepared to deal with this sort of thing.

Using the police to "solve" it is like asking BP to look after your goldfish

[jayjay0]

Why is everybody so cinical and non believing etc. And all that crap about small fish been taken only.

You have to start somewhere.

Just be glad something has been done.

I think it is good, any dealer, small or big who is stopped selling drugs to the children of this world is positive.

By enforcing prohibition, nothing good is the result...after 40 years of the drug war in America:

1. the quality of drugs has improved drastically

2. the availability of drugs has exploded

3. the prices of drugs have dropped

4. 60 % of all arrests are drug related

5. we have one of the highest per capita prison populations in the world, behind Russia

6. entire countries are destabilized by the corruption of officials

Tells me it doesn't work...and is a terrible waste of resources. How long did the prohibition of alcohol last, only until the mobs became very rich.

Interesting

You take two entirely different cultures and expect the same results.

It has been a while 15 years sense I was taking criminology at the time the States (land of the free) had the rate for per capata imprisonment followed by Canada. Not a big surprise Russia has over taken them.

If you are really interested in facts you might look up Portugal's handling of the problem.

And how do you know that the problem woulden't be worse in the states if they didn't do any thing? Just wondering.

[Deeral]

Why is everybody so cinical and non believing etc. And all that crap about small fish been taken only.

You have to start somewhere.

Just be glad something has been done.

I think it is good, any dealer, small or big who is stopped selling drugs to the children of this world is positive.

By enforcing prohibition, nothing good is the result...after 40 years of the drug war in America:

1. the quality of drugs has improved drastically

2. the availability of drugs has exploded

3. the prices of drugs have dropped

4. 60 % of all arrests are drug related

5. we have one of the highest per capita prison populations in the world, behind Russia

6. entire countries are destabilized by the corruption of officials

Tells me it doesn't work...and is a terrible waste of resources. How long did the prohibition of alcohol last, only until the mobs became very rich.

Interesting

You take two entirely different cultures and expect the same results.

It has been a while 15 years sense I was taking criminology at the time the States (land of the free) had the rate for per capata imprisonment followed by Canada. Not a big surprise Russia has over taken them.

If you are really interested in facts you might look up Portugal's handling of the problem.

And how do you know that the problem woulden't be worse in the states if they didn't do any thing? Just wondering.

A thoroughly illogical bit of prose .

Waving the phrase "entirely different cultures" about as if it really has any significance - in fact there is nothing in this post that says anything except that the poster has had an unfortunately poor education in criminology. In a country that has an appalling record of dealing with crime - I wouldn't flash those credentials around too much!If you want to argue the point you might actually address it directly rather than make some vague aphorisms that just crumble under examination

Edited January 9, 2011 by Deeral

[TheyCallmeScooter]

It has been a while 15 years sense I was taking criminology at the time the States (land of the free) had the rate for per capata imprisonment followed by Canada. Not a big surprise Russia has over taken them.

If you are really interested in facts you might look up Portugal's handling of the problem.

And how do you know that the problem woulden't be worse in the states if they didn't do any thing? Just wondering.

Ah no. You're wrong.

"The Land of the Free" still has the highest rate of per capita imprisonment in the world, substantially higher than Russia.

ICPS: United States statistics

ICPS: Russian Federation statistics

The International Centre for Prison Studies is widely considered to be the authority on these things. You can see the latest figures; 743 per 100,000 in US v 582 per 100,000 in Russia.

If you are really interested in facts, you might ensure you list sources for any you claim. Finding the sources for claims I was about to make has prevented my making of many erroneous assertions.

To that end, can you extrapolate to what you are referring to when you talk about Portugal's handling of the problem? Portugal's methods are hilariously flawed, but compared to Prohibition they are simply inspired. And the stunning success of their decriminalisation is rather well-known. I am completely at a loss to what you're referring to when you imply there are facts which support your argument.

As for your final sentence, all you need to do is look at the results to know that Prohibition is a colossal failure (if the very uncomplicated theory behind zero regulation v intelligent regulation isn't understood).

But that's not really the issue. And it's tragic and despairing to hear people approach the issue from that standpoint.

You don't commit indefensible crimes by the millions in order to deal with a problem. Nothing is more indefensible than that. Even if the drug problem increased with the abolition of Prohibition in lieu of intelligent regulation (as those with a vested interest in Prohibition will theorise), it's irrelevant. Drug addicts are victims - the state should not incarcerate victims of the state's failures. The state should deal with those who have medical problems as patients, not as criminals.

You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid.

[gemini81]

apples and oranges. russia is a helluva lot more corrupt. And in the US, one can be thrown in the slammer for the most insignificant things (nit picking).

Edited January 9, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quotation

[TheyCallmeScooter]

apples and oranges. russia is a helluva lot more corrupt. And in the US, one can be thrown in the slammer for the most insignificant things (nit picking).

I wasn't comparing Russia and the US. I was merely correcting an incorrect assertion made.

And yes, you're right about the US. You can be deprived of your liberty for the most ridiculous things. Like say, possession of a tiny amount of dried leaf from a natural plant. I think that's the entire point I'm trying to make.

I think stoners are silly. I know many stoners and they all annoy me. But if I thought it was fair or just or logical to throw into prison everyone that mildly annoyed me doing things which doesn't actually have any impact on me whatsoever...why, 70% of the TV forum's posters would be incarcerated. Which is roughly the amount of people who have smoked pot (a Schedule 1 substance, omg) in the United States.

We are talking about The Land of the Free, remember? Russia was merely brought into the discussion incorrectly by jayboy0 (who normally doesn't find himself so clearly on the incorrect side of a debate, it's worth noting).

[Deeral]

"Thai police launch major crackdown on drugs" - wasn't that the OP?

one can of course compare apples and oranges

e.g. - "which is sweeter?"

however some comparisons can also be pointless

e.g My apple is sweeter then your orange therefore your orange is not edible.

so how does Russia's or the US's experience relate to the issue at he top of the thread? I'd say that both countries have patently failed to succeed in anyway in dealing comprehensively with the "problem"

Edited January 9, 2011 by Deeral

[TheyCallmeScooter]

If you are really interested in facts you might look up Portugal's handling of the problem.

Mostly because the ICPS website is so fascinating, but....

Portugal - 109 (per 100,000)

United Kingdom (England/Wales only) - 150

Australia - 133

France - 96

Germany - 88

Canada - 117

Thailand - 313 (starting to get up there)

United States (just cause they're so FREE in that land) - 743

----------------

Ridiculous.

What a wonderful world, indeed.

I feel it's safe to say Louis Armstrong was smoking crack. Grandparents were slaves. Mother was forced into prostitution. Lived on the streets. Schooled only until 11. New Orleans Home for Colored Waifs (juvenile detention) until released at 14, back onto the streets. Hauled coal at 14 to survive. Tragic stuff...

The most common tale that biographers tell is the story of Armstrong as a young boy dancing for pennies in the streets of New Orleans, who would scoop up the coins off of the streets and stick them into his mouth to avoid having the bigger children steal them from him. Someone dubbed him "satchel mouth", and eventually "Satchmo".

Wonderful world? It would seem so after escaping those horrors. How cute that the US public loved that song. How unsurprising that denial and delusion is deemed preferable to angst. It's a hell of a lot more convenient - that's for sure. Good on Satchmo for fighting through it. But shame on America for loving him for assuaging their guilt.

Wake up and smell the irony, y'all. Yes, it's nice to live in denial. But you don't get to consider yourself a Christian or a "good fellow" whilst you ignore or defend the indefensible, and refuse to speak out against despicable injustices.

[ding]

drugs are a social problem. In most countries and in particular Thailand they are completely unprepared to deal with this sort of thing.

Using the police to "solve" it is like asking BP to look after your goldfish

First some truth, then some humor... I love it.

In the USA, a guy will do 25 years for selling a few joints to a cop but only 8 for murder. Some countries are pretty lathered up about pot. I'm against drugs though and glad Thai police are not letting it go. Not sure how Thais would take to getting sentenced to a recovery program though. Ya have to get honest about where you're screwed up -and in front of other people. :jap:

[TheyCallmeScooter]

"Thai police launch major crackdown on drugs" - wasn't that the OP?

so how does Russia's or the US's experience relate to the issue at he top of the thread? I'd say that both countries have patently failed to succeed in anyway in dealing comprehensively with the "problem"

There is no better way to discuss an issue than to look at how other nations are handling it. The US have launched a major crackdown on drugs since Nixon needed a new 'enemy' to fight in the wake of the Vietnam War. If the Thai police wanted to intelligently predict how effective their major crackdowns were going to be, why wouldn't it help to look at other nation's "major crackdowns".

Do you think humans in the US have wildly different DNA coding to that of humans in Thailand? People are the same the world over. Democratically-elected governments who are pressured by unfathomably ignorant populations into committing grave injustices are all over the place. Almost the norm when it comes to this issue.

But getting back to Thailand's major crackdown on drugs....

Seems like Thaksin turned it around.

I guess that can happen when you start shooting up the joint. Pity it's not a sustainable 'solution'.

Edited January 9, 2011 by TheyCallmeScooter

[Deeral]

When dealing with "the drug problem" one needs to look t ALL aspects. By all means learn from the mistakes of other countries - Thailand is notoriously bad at doing this with regard to any area of policy - but primarily one needs to understand the use of recreational drugs in society - Thailand is notoriously lacking in this too.

THe end of the day Thailand is simply inadequately prepared to deal with drug use and abuse in just about any form and relies on knee-jerk measures by high-ranking unaccountable officials who by definition are the same as their measures but without the "knee".

Edited January 9, 2011 by Deeral

[Deeral]

THe EU population is almost twice that of the US and even in countries with "bad" drug problems - the social effects are arguably considerably less than in the states - yet in general the approach to drug legislation is in general far more relaxed than the US.Nearer to home they might want to look at how Australia handles the issues

Edited January 9, 2011 by Deeral

[TheyCallmeScooter]

In the USA, a guy will do 25 years for selling a few joints to a cop but only 8 for murder. Some countries are pretty lathered up about pot. I'm against drugs though and glad Thai police are not letting it go. Not sure how Thais would take to getting sentenced to a recovery program though. Ya have to get honest about where you're screwed up -and in front of other people. :jap:

Yeah the US isn't exactly the flag-bearers for Reason or Justice. The French ironically gave them the Statue of Liberty but they didn't get the joke obv. Proudly whacked smack into New York Harbor. The French have been snickering at them ever since.

But the failure of Recovery Program argument is...? You're comparing it as an alternative to Prison. Firstly, you don't compare success rates because that's approaching it from a ridiculous angle. That would be like making it illegal to "have cancer", and then comparing the remission rates for those with cancer you imprison v those with cancer you send to a Recovery / Treatment Centre with support group discussions and people talking about why they feel they have cancer and what they can do to heal and avoid getting it again.

The problem is not Drugs. That's a diversion.

The problem is that Society is failing children. They get addicted to drugs in despair and desperation. Once they're addicted, they need to be treated (like medical patients with low % chance of getting better). You don't throw them into prison. They've done nothing 'wrong'. Society has merely legislated a law that says people can't medicate the pain of their lives away. That would be too kind, you see...considering Society are the likely creators of their pain / misery.

But if you insist on treating it as if they've done something wrong, and you want to assess Prison v Treatment Centre as a 'remedy', let's....

Not sure how Thais would take to getting sentenced to a recovery program though. Ya have to get honest about where you're screwed up -and in front of other people.

Yeah that would be tough to do.

Whereas in prison you're just screwed - in front of other people. I think most victims deserve to get sent to the medical treatment option, even if it doesn't address the core issues of poverty / despair / lack of education / lack of options...you know, the stuff which makes a kid think...

ah f it. this is too messed up. no future. no education. no job prospects. a life of misery and poverty ahead of me. getting kicked around, looked down upon, no one giving a f. hey this makes me forget all that misery and makes me happy for a bit. hell yeah I'll just pop these cheap little pills so that I don't have to kill myself or live a life of pain.

If you think a kid who thinks the above deserves to go to prison with murderers, rapists, sex offenders and other violent offenders.....say so now, please.

So that I can eviscerate your despicable state of denial.

[Deeral]

Why would you need to be "sentenced" - surely, you're still seeing the problem in terms of the police as being the natural agency for dealing with it?

[aussiejosh]

Silom has had raids nothing targeting westerners only local Thais. Seen Silom Soi 2 and 4 raided and a number of arrests in DJ Station.

Silom Police are offering cash rewards for info on local Drug Dealers and it seems to have worked with word that the street has dried up considerably.

I have never seen it this tough and its good to see its truly working. I know of 6 staff in restaurants and Bars that failed pee tests and got arrested and cant get out for 3 months. Only problem is 1 of them is on HIV medication and that often triggers a positive result for drugs when I fact they have not taken anything illegal. Thai Police don't seem to understand this and further education is required.

Its suprising however the amount of boys in Silom that pass the pee test and are not worried. Drug usage amongst the Gay Silom crowd is much less then people think.

They offer cash rewards? I'd hate to point out the wrong protected man...