30,000 Thai Red Shirts Rally In Bangkok: Police

[rubl]

Freedom starts with not being poor....., freedom starts with having the chance to materially progress in life.

(Eat that, buddhists!)

The rest hopefully follows - no religion, no leaders, no countries, no greed,......

Hopefully, but i am not as sure now, as i was in 1968.

From imagine:

"Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed nor hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world"

Mind you, I'm starting to wonder what this has to do with the OP "30,000 Thai red shirts rally in Bangkok"

[kropotkin]

Freedom starts with not being poor....., freedom starts with having the chance to materially progress in life.

(Eat that, buddhists!)

The rest hopefully follows - no religion, no leaders, no countries, no greed,......

Hopefully, but i am not as sure now, as i was in 1968.

From imagine:

"Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed nor hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world"

Mind you, I'm starting to wonder what this has to do with the OP "30,000 Thai red shirts rally in Bangkok"

Maybe - i surely hope so - maybe, that is what the red shirts came to BKK for.

Excluding their leaders obviously.

[jdinasia]

With the yellows, no such problem, no need to differentiate.

True --- by comparison the yellows just weren't that violent. No masses of black-shirted, Sae Daeng sponsored armed men carrying full military ordnance. No grenade launchers etc. It is also worth note that when the yellows did something their leaders were there in the front. That being said. The PAD is a spent force without Thaksin to fight against and this thread is about the reds (and their rally that violated several of the conditions they agreed to before hand)

.....THEY agreed to......

Who is THEY?

Is that mister T? or his party? Or Jatuporn? Or - let's be optimistic - the slowly emerging new political movement of the poor? - remember the european 19th century.

Do you think misterT can speak for f ex Red Siam? - or the poor / fed up with the status quo?

And I guess you did not have to make a visa run when BKK was closed?

They, the rally organizers, who agreed to not having a stage etc. They met with the police and made agreements that they failed to keep. I think that the organizers of a rally are responsible for what happens in their name. If another group starts erecting a stage they report it to the police otherwise "they" are culpable. If "They" cannot maintain order amongst their own then "they" cannot hold rallies. Pretty simple really.

(BTW ---- it takes REAL money to set up stages and sound systems ---- it aint "the poor" doing this, and it isn't being done for the benefit of "the poor" as Thaksin's phone-in and broadcasted remarks show to believe otherwise is simply naive.

[hanuman1]

CMF, given the conviction of Rak Chiang Mai 51 members in the murder of the father of the owner of a yellow shirt radio station, an old man who was pulled out of his truck and beaten to death, I suggest you rethink your position. It smacks of inflammatory trolling.

RCM51 are a bunch of ignorant thugs who'll probably all end up in jail or dead sooner or later. I know that there are other red groups in CM which tend to attract more peaceful, thoughtful types. But two members of RCM51 have also been killed recently. Political or not, I don't know, but it's not like red shirts are the only group capable of using violent force and intimidation. Also, Kwanchai Praipana has earned a deserved reputation as a thug capable of disgusting acts of violence, yet his radio station was burned to the ground and he himself was badly beaten. That was during the election campaign in 2007, before the colour war really got going. I'm not an apologist for violence, but it's clearly not all one way. More PPP canvassers were killed during the 2007 campaign than those from any other party. Most of the reported intimidation by PPP people in the last election was actually in Buri Ram, Newin's turf. He'll be on the other side this time, of course. Though I heard that Chavalit and Panlop will be responsible for "protecting" PT people when they compete against Newin in the coming election... I expect it will be even more violent than usual.

Since CMF was disputing the violent acts of red shirts the point I was making was that it was not true. Certainly there has been violence on both sides but it is disingenuous at best, and inflammatory trolling at worst, to say that the red shirt movement is not violent.

Making blanket statements that are inflammatory and based on obvious untruths are, IMO, inflammatory trolling designed to bait people into responding in an inflammatory way.

Not a good thing and not allowed. OK? Does that make my statement clearer?

- 1!

[rubl]

Not everyone is equally happy with the twice monthly protests at Ratchaprasong:

Ratchaprasong Business Community Strongly Affected by Red Shirt Protests

UPDATE : 11 January 2011

The business community around the Ratchaprasong intersection have gathered to ask that protesters not use their area as future protest sites. They are gathered in front of the Gaysorn Plaza Complex and will send a representative to the Government House around 2 P.M. today. The red shirt movement had earlier announced that they would gather in the Ratchaprasong area the 9th and 19th of every month to commemorate the deadly crackdown of their rally. Last Sunday's rally saw more than 30,000 protesters gather. The business community is claiming that throughout the red shirt protest in 2010, more than 2,800 vendors and employees lost around 12 billion baht in sales revenue.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1039459

[Buchholz]

Another Red Shirt Guard has been arrested.

Wanted on charges related to the Reds storming into Chulalongkorn Hospital last April as well as a suspect in a grenade throwing incident that injured seven.

Details in the other paper.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Red guard rearrested and faced additional charge for terrorism

The Department of Special Investigation has rearrested red guard Sompong Bangchom to face additional charge for terrorism in connection with last year's riots.

Sompong, a suspect for violating the state of emergency and released on bail in June, was detained again on Monday in Sisaket before being transported today to Bangkok for his custody hearing, scheduled for tomorrow.

DSI director general Tharit Pengdit said the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam", was involved two major violent incidents - the raid at Chulalongkorn Hospital on April 29 and the bombing attack at the home of Chat Thai Pattana chief adviser Banharn Silapa-Archa on April 25.

Tharit said the suspect led about 200 red guards during the hospital raid under the pretext of checking for anti-riot forces. The incident caused a scare for patients and medical personnel, disrupting and shutting down the hospital services.

-- The Nation 2011-01-11

[whybother]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

[truethailand]

RED SHIRT RALLIES

A year for justice, ex-PM taunts

By The Nation

Thaksin promises democracy and reconciliation in phone-in to mob

Fugitive ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra told red shirts massed at Ratchaprasong Intersection last night he would do everything to "bring back democracy, prosperity and justice" to Thailand.

"This is the year justice must return," he said in a phone call from an aeroplane, whose location was not revealed.

This year would be a good one for Thai people, he said, referring to national reconciliation.

To the government, reconciliation meant trailing and capturing him, but to the people, reconciliation meant reunification and justice, he said.

"Is it going to happen? I can't understand their thinking," he said. "I wasn't planning on speaking but the continued injustice changed my mind."

The red shirts' patron spent a few minutes talking to the mob at Ratchaprasong, saying he was in good health.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan joined the red-shirt rally in defiance of a court ban on his participating in a public assembly of more than five people.

"My lawyer sought and received clarification from a judge who explained that I could rally if I don't make speeches about my case," he said in reference to his pending trial on terrorism charges in connection with last year's riots.

Jatuporn claimed the clearance had come from Manit Sukanan, deputy chief judge of the Criminal Court.

The Department of Special Investigation was closely monitoring Jatuporn's remarks and activities at the Ratchaprasong rally, DSI director-general Tharit Pengdit said.

If he was found violating the ban, the DSI would promptly request for his bail to be revoked, he said.

Maj General Wichai Sangprapai, commander of Metropolitan Police Division 1, said some 60,000 red shirts showed up at the two rallies at Rajdamnoen and Ratchaprasong.

The gatherings took place within legal limits, he said.

About 300 officers were deployed to keep peace and order, while some 1,000 anti-riot police were stationed at headquarters for any problems.

By late afternoon, Ratchaprasong was closed to traffic due to the crowd.

Three factions of the red-shirt movement took part in the rallies. The mainstream reds were led by Thida Thawornseth. Another faction was under Pithan "Pae Bangsanan" Song-amphol, while the remaining protesters were supporters of the late Maj General Khattiya "Seh Daeng" Sawasdiphol.

The Seh Daeng group led by his daughter Khattiya marched from Ratchaprasong to the King Rama VI Statue at Lumpini Park to mark his death last year.

Sirisakul Saikua, wife of Nattawut, one of the red leaders, was crying and said he had no chance to hold his eight-month-old daughter since being detained at Klong Prem Central Prison.

The next red-shirt rally will be held on January 23.

-- The Nation 2011-01-10

"... a few minutes talking to the mob" is that how a free press addresses a group of its, on this day peaceful, own people. Put nicely if I took this newspaper to the toilet for a number 2 I would not need tissue for the clean up operation. A grade A+ 4rsewipe rag, a propoganda tool for the government. The biased reporting of this years events as noted by those bad foreign journalists and reported net wide. Sad day when the 'free press' is moderating this forum. They jump on every neutral or biased report about government opposition, the same 6 or 7 faces on every red related thread. People here should ask why they have such interest in these threads.

Difference of opinions are acceptable and healthy but if the likes of me and many others here (with a social conscience and not a political agenda) were allowed to take the stand on a level playing field, 'the gang of 7' would never win another argument. I dont give a toss whos in power but lets have some equality. 70,000,000,000 baht for a new army cavalry in Khon Kaen, please somebody here justify 1 baht of that when in Isaan there is such poverty and no real jobs. if they spent the money on the poor there would be no need to camp the army on their doorstep because they would never need to go to Bangkok again. Only my logic

A final plea to those with agendas, let people read threads that are not manipulated by you. The same group of people are always the first to comment on a red thread in a vain attempt to set the agenda of what follows. If as a neutral you disagree you will get caught in the crossfire of the other gang members as they openly support each others comments while attacking the opposition. You are becoming predictable, people beliefs on equality will far out live your agendas

[Buchholz]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

The alleged hospital-raiding, grenade-throwing Red Shirt Guard Leader Sompong:

INNews

http://www.innnews.co.th/crime.php?nid=263988

[whybother]

"... a few minutes talking to the mob" is that how a free press addresses a group of its, on this day peaceful, own people. Put nicely if I took this newspaper to the toilet for a number 2 I would not need tissue for the clean up operation. A grade A+ 4rsewipe rag, a propoganda tool for the government. The biased reporting of this years events as noted by those bad foreign journalists and reported net wide. Sad day when the 'free press' is moderating this forum. They jump on every neutral or biased report about government opposition, the same 6 or 7 faces on every red related thread. People here should ask why they have such interest in these threads.

Difference of opinions are acceptable and healthy but if the likes of me and many others here (with a social conscience and not a political agenda) were allowed to take the stand on a level playing field, 'the gang of 7' would never win another argument. I dont give a toss whos in power but lets have some equality. 70,000,000,000 baht for a new army cavalry in Khon Kaen, please somebody here justify 1 baht of that when in Isaan there is such poverty and no real jobs. if they spent the money on the poor there would be no need to camp the army on their doorstep because they would never need to go to Bangkok again. Only my logic

A final plea to those with agendas, let people read threads that are not manipulated by you. The same group of people are always the first to comment on a red thread in a vain attempt to set the agenda of what follows. If as a neutral you disagree you will get caught in the crossfire of the other gang members as they openly support each others comments while attacking the opposition. You are becoming predictable, people beliefs on equality will far out live your agendas

Neutral?

[jdinasia]

tt --- if you were neutral or unbiased you might get neutral or unbiased responses The rest of the premise of your post seems to be discussing moderation issues etc.

BTW --- your complaints about The Nation being a government mouthpiece are rather funny and show a sincere lack of knowledge about who's who and what's what. (If you had called it a mouthpiece of one of the leaders of the PAD you might have earned a bit of credit.

You are also welcome to join the debate/discussion at any time (of course remembering the forum rules) and if your views can stand the light of reasoned inspection then you will certainly gain some kudos. If, however, you stick to the redshirts=poor rural farmers and not redshirts=dupes of Thaksin and redshirt leadership ... well you'll likely see your posts ripped apart by the reality of what is happening in Thailand

[truethailand]

With the yellows, no such problem, no need to differentiate.

True --- by comparison the yellows just weren't that violent. No masses of black-shirted, Sae Daeng sponsored armed men carrying full military ordnance. No grenade launchers etc. It is also worth note that when the yellows did something their leaders were there in the front. That being said. The PAD is a spent force without Thaksin to fight against and this thread is about the reds (and their rally that violated several of the conditions they agreed to before hand)

It is also worth noting that the Yellows were sponsored by ..who?. Airport blocked, country frozen, police scared to move in because of the reprecussions of the army and best of all...the army does nothing. Ask yourself this question... Who was most under threat from the Peua Thai Party and who had most to gain by retaining the status quo of power in Thailand.....wanna clue jd

gof7

[hanuman1]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

looks like the red movement would be better off without this one.

[whybother]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

looks like the red movement would be better off without this one.

They would probably be better off with out half their factions ... ofcourse, they might not have many followers then.

[Grey11]

They have violated their agreement to refrain from setting up a stage:

From Police posted on anti-government protest march route:

Gen Wichai said the UDD leaders told him at yesterday’s talks that protesters would not attack the royal institution, that no stage would be erected and that live-flame floating airbourne lanterns would not be released.

They should be arrested and/or fined.

The cops need to nip it in the bud before these terrorists get any stronger. They are testing to see if the military and police will be as weak as they were last time. The military and the police were a disgrace and it cost Thailand dearly. If there is not a law to arrest and fine them, pass one before they go on another rampage. These people will not stop until they get that scumbag Thaksin back into office & the little terrorist worm has plenty of money to pay for the violence. And, there will be violence. The terrorist Red Shirts will be back. No matter what the government gives them, it is not enough. The Reds are uneducated and illiterate and evidently have nothing to do. The PM should at least learn who is leading this newest bunch of terrorist and find some evidence on them of past crimes and jail them.

[jdinasia]

With the yellows, no such problem, no need to differentiate.

True --- by comparison the yellows just weren't that violent. No masses of black-shirted, Sae Daeng sponsored armed men carrying full military ordnance. No grenade launchers etc. It is also worth note that when the yellows did something their leaders were there in the front. That being said. The PAD is a spent force without Thaksin to fight against and this thread is about the reds (and their rally that violated several of the conditions they agreed to before hand)

It is also worth noting that the Yellows were sponsored by ..who?. Airport blocked, country frozen, police scared to move in because of the reprecussions of the army and best of all...the army does nothing. Ask yourself this question... Who was most under threat from the Peua Thai Party and who had most to gain by retaining the status quo of power in Thailand.....wanna clue jd

gof7

Hmmmmm so you are agreeing that the Yellows were (by comparison to the reds) just not that violent. The Airport was shut down (by the AOT) for 8 days ... after weeks of the PAD having grenades shot at them from a distance while the police did nothing ...Police scared to move in ... why Sept2 and Oct 7th. There will be a court case. They will be found guilty of tresspassing or something else minor.

There wasn't a PTP, PPP was dissolved for obvious electoral fraud by leaders --- so nobody was under threat from it. Who had the most to gain by Thaksin raping the country of its assets? Thaksin. Who would have the most to gain by his downfall? Thailand. Who led the PAD .. the leaders (all who had an axe to grind with Thaksin both personally and professionally!) The rest? Conjecture and conspiracy theory.

gof7? What would that be in English?

ooooh I just figured out what tt's "gof7 means ---- I am one of his "gang o seven!" ... Hi Ho Hi Ho! (These days I would have to be "Sleepy", far too much work to post all that often. Only when I have a lull like the past couple of days!

Edited January 11, 2011 by jdinasia

[hanuman1]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

looks like the red movement would be better off without this one.

They would probably be better off with out half their factions ... ofcourse, they might not have many followers then.

If you took out all those who were prepared to perpetrate violence I seriously doubt their numbers would be significantly dented.

If you took out all those whose views you have no time for then yes, I agree with your last post.

[whybother]

If you took out all those who were prepared to perpetrate violence I seriously doubt their numbers would be significantly dented.

If you took out all those whose views you have no time for then yes, I agree with your last post.

It might be easier if I knew what their views were, besides getting their leaders out of jail and getting Thaksin back.

See my signature.

[jdinasia]

If you took out all those who were prepared to perpetrate violence I seriously doubt their numbers would be significantly dented.

If you took out all those whose views you have no time for then yes, I agree with your last post.

Ummm if you accept that the people willingly listening to the violent hate speech from the red stages and happily cheering it along are not culpable for the violence carried out in their name ... then you might be correct hanuman .... but that is a leap most people are not willing to take. (It also does remind us of the courage of the red leadership (other than Seh Daeng who did indeed stand on the front lines and paid the price for it -- he had courage) Thaksin's statement that when the first bullet was fired, he would be there with them (while comparing himself to Ghandi and Mandela) was where? Paris? Dubai? Anywhere but putting himself in harm's way like he had his deluded lackey's doing.

[rubl]

Begin removed ...

Only my logic

... end removed

I disagree with the major part of the post and it's tone, but won't say much because of these three words. Private / personal opinions I can tolerate and sometimes even respect.

[Buchholz]

<snip>

the suspect, who is the leader of the red-guard faction "Saming Dam",

<snip>

ANOTHER faction?

The alleged hospital-raiding, grenade-throwing Red Shirt Guard Leader Sompong:

INNews

http://www.innnews.co.th/crime.php?nid=263988

From news at the time of Sompong's alleged "grenad-ing" near Banharn's home that injured seven....

BANGKOK: -- Two bomb attacks were carried out late last night against two symbolic targets - the Chiang Mai police headquarters and the Bangkok home of veteran politician Banharn Silapa-archa, which was targeted twice before and this time saw seven people wounded.

Later, a fake bomb was also found near Chulalongkorn Hospital on Rajdamri Road - located not far from where red-shirt demonstrators are camped or from the Sala Daeng BTS station, where an M79 attack killed one and wounded scores of others on April 22.

A live grenade was also found in front of a luxury-car showroom off Rama IX Road. Police ordnance officers said later that the K75 grenade's safety pin had not been removed.

At Banharn's home on Charan Sanitwong Road, policemen guarding the house said two men on a Honda Sonic motorcycle dropped a grenade on the pavement before fleeing. The M67 grenade bounced off the curb and rolled toward the middle of the street where it exploded, injuring seven victims including three policemen.

One of the victims, 33-year-old Namon Sorrawong, was badly injured because the grenade rolled under her car before exploding. She said this was the second time she had been caught in a political clash. Previously she had a miscarriage from the impact of an explosion during the violent clashes around Soi Phetburi 7 last Songkran.

Namon, with a severe wound to her right torso and five pieces of shrapnel embedded in her body, sustained the worst injuries among the seven victims. Banharn's daughter Kanchana, and his wife Khunying Jaemsai, visited Namon at hospital to offer their sympathy. In an interview, Namon called for an end to the continuous violence.

-- The Nation 2010-04-27

================================

Here's a better shot of his arrest today:

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[hanuman1]

Ummm if you accept that the people willingly listening to the violent hate speech from the red stages and happily cheering it along are not culpable for the violence carried out in their name ... then you might be correct hanuman .... but that is a leap most people are not willing to take. (It also does remind us of the courage of the red leadership (other than Seh Daeng who did indeed stand on the front lines and paid the price for it -- he had courage) Thaksin's statement that when the first bullet was fired, he would be there with them (while comparing himself to Ghandi and Mandela) was where? Paris? Dubai? Anywhere but putting himself in harm's way like he had his deluded lackey's doing.

Ummm if you accept that the people willingly listening to the violent hate speech from the red stages and happily cheering it along are not culpable for the violence carried out in their name ... then you might be correct hanuman .... but that is a leap most people are not willing to take.

It shouldn't be a 'leap' that some people have to take. I would hope it could be informed by a point of law, ideally explicitly stated in some legislation or other. Let's look at some hypotheticals:

1) Person A pays someone else to kill someone. Person A is doubtless culpable.

2) Person A incites an individual to burn a building. Person A is culpable.

3) Person A cheers when Person B (culpable) incites someone to burn a building. Is person A culpable? I'd like to see the legal document that says he she is.

So when you say you say you aren't willing to take the leap, you are simply expressing an opinion which is not necessarily based in law at all. Fine - that's your right, but don't be surprised if other people choose to base theirs on other things. Their opinions are as valid as yours, and no amount of repetition can turn an opinion into fact.

As for the stuff about the 'courageous' Sah Deang and Thaksin, knock yourself out, buddy.

Edited January 11, 2011 by hanuman1

[truethailand]

tt --- if you were neutral or unbiased you might get neutral or unbiased responses The rest of the premise of your post seems to be discussing moderation issues etc.

BTW --- your complaints about The Nation being a government mouthpiece are rather funny and show a sincere lack of knowledge about who's who and what's what. (If you had called it a mouthpiece of one of the leaders of the PAD you might have earned a bit of credit.

You are also welcome to join the debate/discussion at any time (of course remembering the forum rules) and if your views can stand the light of reasoned inspection then you will certainly gain some kudos. If, however, you stick to the redshirts=poor rural farmers and not redshirts=dupes of Thaksin and redshirt leadership ... well you'll likely see your posts ripped apart by the reality of what is happening in Thailand

Your doing what I said you do..you monitor these forums(resoponse in 10 mins). I know what happens in Thailand but I am not allowed to say it, so you win every time. Its my argument every time. you know the rules of the game in Thailand and the cards are stacked in your favour when it comes to debate. No I am not neutral in my beliefs because they are social and not political. Debate the spending of the 70 Billion over 10 years on another army cavalry. Is it needed, could the money be better spent

[jdinasia]

Your doing what I said you do..you monitor these forums(resoponse in 10 mins). I know what happens in Thailand but I am not allowed to say it, so you win every time. Its my argument every time. you know the rules of the game in Thailand and the cards are stacked in your favour when it comes to debate. No I am not neutral in my beliefs because they are social and not political. Debate the spending of the 70 Billion over 10 years on another army cavalry. Is it needed, could the money be better spent

Hmmmmm

Sorry kiddo in your first rant about the nation and neutral posters you seemed to be claiming neutrality. At least now you admit you are not (meaning the thing you accuse others of --- having an agenda--- applies to you. You don't address the other issue brought up --- The Nation. Why? Oh, could it be that you were wrong on that since the owner of The Nation doesn't take too soft a hand when swinging at the government. They just take a much harder stance when swinging at Thaksin.

Why would Thailand need new mechanized cavalry? Border issues with Cambodia? Border issues with Myanmar. Internal strife both in the South and with redshirts? The fact that Thailand spent too little on the military for some years and things need to be updated? To employ some of the people you so desperately want to help?

Money IS being spent on helping the poor in Thailand, far more money than was spent under Thaksin and more effectively. Special interest groups are being hit with some restrictions etc (unused land taxes etc) that will make the wealthy of Thailand pick up some of the bills for the new social welfare programs. Instead of just "let's have a 30 baht health scheme that was proposed by the ministry of health .... but fail to fund it properly! That way we can appear to help people while actually giving poorer service and buying up surplus!

Social=Political ---frankly your whining about not being able to say whatever you want is kind of sad. I am limited in what I can say just as you are. I doubt that you have any knowledge about the subjects at hand that are anything BUT hearsay or claims by marxists like Giles U. Your arguments aren't cohesive --- "they attack neutral posters" followed by "I am not neutral".

Your attempt to belittle knowledgable posters with your snide little "gof7" is far more than just sad. (oh and if you are logged in and click the "view new content" link to the top right, then only threads with new posts pop up. Meaning you don't have to click on over to the News section, then the Chiang Mai section, then the farang pub section etc etc etc. BTW --- I have pretty much zero connection with other posters who share some of my views. I do have a great deal of respect for "hammered" but I do not always agree with his conclusions. Bucholz is great to have around for his wide reaching background information (or ability to google!) I, however, work 60+ hours a week and don't (as you accuse) post on every red topic. I just don't have that kind of time any more. I appreciate those that do. Instead I tend to pick a topic or 6 that interest me ... and follow them.

[jdinasia]

Hanuman ----

Your point 3 is a bit too limited in scope.

Person A cheers whilst person B (culpable) incites people surrounding person A to commit arson etc. Person A is in direct violation of the law at the time that he cheers. Person A is thus culpable as well. (Part of an illegal gathering and providing support to the actual culprits.)

Is person A fully culpable? (can person A be charged witth arson or terrorism? I would not think so, though it probably is possible. The lesser included charges obviously would stick to person A, particularly if person A were being paid to be there. (Paid agent of person person

[rubl]

begin removed ...

I, however, work 60+ hours a week and don't (as you accuse) post on every red topic. I just don't have that kind of time any more. I appreciate those that do. Instead I tend to pick a topic or 6 that interest me ... and follow them.

I have the same approach, even interesting topics I may not reply to if I have nothing to say or complain about. Above all keep in mind, most of what is posted is opinion and not always based on fact (as everyone knows ).

Edited January 11, 2011 by rubl

[jdinasia]

I have the same approach, even interesting topics I may not reply to if I have nothing to say or complain about. Above all keep in mind, most of what is posted is opinion and not always based on fact (as everyone knows ).

LOL Rubl,

I wonder, are you part of truethailand's "Gang of Seven?" and if so, which one?

[hanuman1]

Hanuman ----

Your point 3 is a bit too limited in scope.

Person A cheers whilst person B (culpable) incites people surrounding person A to commit arson etc. Person A is in direct violation of the law at the time that he cheers. Person A is thus culpable as well. (Part of an illegal gathering and providing support to the actual culprits.)

Is person A fully culpable? (can person A be charged witth arson or terrorism? I would not think so, though it probably is possible. The lesser included charges obviously would stick to person A, particularly if person A were being paid to be there. (Paid agent of person person

Person A is in direct violation of the law at the time that he cheers.

How on earth do you arrive at this seemingly definitive statement? I won't be facile enough to insist you show me the actual law which says it, feel free to just paraphrase if it makes things easier.

Being at an illegal gathering has nothing in itself to do with violence - we're sticking to the initial argument about reds being violent, aren't we?

particularly if person A were being paid to be there.

Even if this could be proved in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt, which I don't think it could, paying someone to be in a certain place at a certain time is not necessarily an offense. Paying someone to perform violence is.

Anyway, I think you'll agree that we could go on arguing about legal minutiae all night. My point is that posters with your attitude ride roughshod over these important legal nuances for the sake of simplicity and whatever other agendas you might have, or maybe you or your business was badly effected by redshirts (in which case I sympathize) or something. Whichever the case, it doesn't lend itself to open minded discussion, although there is some evidence here that we can have a constructive debate.

Cheers.

[SomTumTiger]

I would like to thank the Reds for not killing, burning, or destroying anything on Sunday. Would be nice if that can continue that pattern for the foreseeable future....