Thai Firms Say Red Shirt Protests Threaten Jobs

[webfact]

Thai firms say protests threaten jobs

BANGKOK, January 12, 2011 (AFP) - Angry Thai business operators in downtown Bangkok said Wednesday that thousands of workers risked losing their jobs if anti-government "Red Shirt" protesters continued to rally twice a month.

Tens of thousands of red-clad demonstrators gathered in Bangkok on Sunday for a peaceful rally and the group has vowed to stage similar twice-monthly events centering on Ratchaprasong, an upmarket central shopping district.

The Ratchaprasong Square Trade Association (RSTA) held a meeting with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to air dissatisfaction at the Red Shirts, whose two-month long mass rally last year ended with a bloody army crackdown.

"Demonstrations are a good thing but there must be limitations and no violation of other people's basic rights," RSTA president Chai Srivikorn said after the meeting.

"If the situation goes on like this it will affect tourists' confidence and the country's competitiveness," he told reporters.

In an open letter to Abhisit, the RSTA said 2,088 operators lost 11 billion baht ($362 million) last year due to the mass rally, during which more than 90 people lost their lives in clashes between protesters and authorities.

But the economy in general has remained resilient, and the Tourism Authority of Thailand said last week there had been a "remarkable" recovery.

Chai estimated that 33,000 jobs, mainly in the retail and tourism sectors, could be at risk in the Ratchaprasong area if the protests continued.

Abhisit said the government would "try to organise tripartite talks" between the protesters, businesses and police ahead of the next rally on January 23.

The Red Shirts reaffirmed the rally would go ahead, and asked people to have sympathy with their cause.

"We demand democracy and justice for the entire nation, so these workers will benefit too," said spokesman Worawut Wichaidit.

The demonstration in April and May -- demanding snap elections -- attracted 100,000 of the mainly poor and working class Red Shirts at its peak.

After the army crackdown, small bands of militant protesters set dozens of buildings ablaze across Bangkok, including Ratchaprasong's glitzy CentralWorld shopping mall.

Sunday's rally was the Red Shirts' largest show of strength since then and the first since emergency rule -- which banned gatherings of more than five people -- was lifted in the capital last month.

Despite the law, the protesters had staged a number of smaller rallies in Bangkok in recent months.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-01-12

[webfact]

Reds to rally at Ratchaprasong despite disruption of commerce

By The Nation.

The red shirts will on January 23 hold their next rally at Ratchaprasong inspite of a plea by business proprietors to relocate their rally site out of the main shopping district, organiser Worawut Wichaidit said on Wednesday.

"Instead of asking for the government intervention to relocate the red rally, Ratchaprasong businessmen should have demanded Abhisit Vejjajiva to dispense justice for the red shirts and those held in remand," Worawut said.

He was reacting to the petition submitted to the prime minister complaining about the disruption of commerce.

He called on the businessmen to cooperate in setting the site for the red shirts to congregate, saying the rally would be peaceful.

The rally will kick off at Ratchaprasong in the afternoon before marching to Democracy Monument on Rajdamnoen Avenue, he said, promising to end all activities before midnight.

Red-shirt leader Thida Thawornseth said the last Sunday's rally was proof of the movement strength and the determination to seek justice to people killed in the crackdown and those held in remand for eight months.

"Businesses should be mindful of those killed and injured in Ratchaprasong," she said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-12

[rubl]

In democracies groups have a right to demonstrate. Mostly the organizers and the police will setup a meeting to discuss subject, route, attendance, limitations, security issues, first-aid preparations/stations, start/stop time, etc., etc. This to ensure a peaceful rally with minimal disturbance.

If the Ratchaprasong business people don't like being singled out for protests they should start talks with police and rally organizers to reach a compromise.

Democracy is action, you've got to love it

[Who, me ?]

In democracies groups have a right to demonstrate. Mostly the organizers and the police will setup a meeting to discuss subject, route, attendance, limitations, security issues, first-aid preparations/stations, start/stop time, etc., etc. This to ensure a peaceful rally with minimal disturbance.

If the Ratchaprasong business people don't like being singled out for protests they should start talks with police and rally organizers to reach a compromise.

Democracy is action, you've got to love it

Absolutely preposterous!

[bkkjames]

Last year I put forth the big football stadium up ramkanhaeng area as a venue: proper seating, toilets, PA system, probably would help the local economy in that area, wouldn't be a barrier to tourism

Guess I should have aimed lower.

[webfact]

Ratchaprasong Square Trade Association meets PM, asks govt to shape rally pattern

BANGKOK, Jan 12 - The Ratchaprasong Square Trade Association (RSTA) president on Wednesday met with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, calling on his government to draw up proper management procedures for public demonstrations so that the move will not violate other people's rights and affect retailers in Bangkok's prime commercial area.

The 40-minute talk between RSTA head Chai Srivikorn and the premier was held at Government House following the association's Tuesday petition to the government.

Mr Chai said he hopes that the talk between him and the premier will be the beginning of all parties to help solve the problem.

The RSTA president said he will also seek cooperation from leaders of the anti-government Red Shirt movement of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) which plans to protest again on Jan 23, urging that their rally should not intrude on other people's rights as there are so many businesses which are affected by the protest, even more than the UDD estimates.

Mr Chai said that now some two thousand persons have signed the petition and he believed there would be up to one hundred thousand people who have been hit by the protest willing to sign the petition.

The association head said damage from the political gathering amounts to about Bt100 million per day (US$3 million).

"The business retailers and I do not oppose to the demonstration but the pattern of the protest should not violate other people's rights and cause deeper divisions in our fragile society," Mr Chai said.

If the protests continue to be held like this, there will be more impact on others, and the protesters should not become enemies with local people of the (Ratchaprasong) area, he reasoned.

Mr Chai added he hopes the Red Shirts will help change their format of their demonstrations to not cause trouble for other people, while conceding that the matter is not an easy task as there are many groups of Red Shirt leaders.

"The Red Shirt rally last year caused about ten billion baht of damage, he said. If it continues like this, the damage will not count only the figures, but also the country's confidence.

The RSTA president on Tuesday led a group of 30 business representatives to present their petition to the prime minister through Kriatfa Laohapornsawan, vice-minister to the Prime Minister’s Office.

The letter said damage from the protests in Ratchaprasong area in 2010 cost retailers and other businesses Bt11.275 billion, caused 30,661 employees to lose wages as well as causing traffic congestion and other troubles to the general public. The problem is persisting with a large number of protesters demonstrating at least once or twice a month.

Meanwhile, UDD acting chair Thida Thavornseth said that she understood the problems of the Ratchaprasong retailers, but the trouble of the people who long for true democracy and justice is also important.

Mrs Thida urged the business operators to look back at the root causes of why people come out to protest, saying that while the UDD is ready to facilitate the business operators to certain extent, but will not cooperate with the government.

Acting UDD spokesman Worawut Vichaidit said the Red Shirts do not want to make enemies of the Ratchaprasong retailers. He advised that the association should petition the government to return justice to the Red Shirts, instead of calling on the UDD to end the protest.

Mr Worawut pledged the Red Shirts will continue their planned protest at Ratchaprasong Jan 23 from 1pm and will march to the Democracy Monument at 3pm and end the protest before midnight. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-01-12

[Crushdepth]

In democracies groups have a right to demonstrate. Mostly the organizers and the police will setup a meeting to discuss subject, route, attendance, limitations, security issues, first-aid preparations/stations, start/stop time, etc., etc. This to ensure a peaceful rally with minimal disturbance.

If the Ratchaprasong business people don't like being singled out for protests they should start talks with police and rally organizers to reach a compromise.

Democracy is action, you've got to love it

What an utterly stupid thing to say. Do you have *any idea* what happened at Ratchaprasong last year? Like shooting people, throwing bombs and finally burning a fair bit of it down? Is that a "peaceful rally with minimal disturbance"?

You're in Thailand now, things work a bit differently here.

[rubl]

Democracy at least partially in action.

- RSTA talked with the PM, ask to draw up proper management procedures for the continued 'red-shirt' protests.

- RSTA president will seek cooperation from leaders of the UDD.

- RSTA doesn't oppose the rallies, but say those shouldn't violate other peoples rights

- RSTA president worries about the many red-shirt factions to be consulted.

- UDD k. Thida understands problems, but 'the people' also important (her people?)

- UDD k. Thida will not cooperate with the government (implicitly also not with the police?)

- UDD acting spokesman advises the RSTA to join his cause and petition the government for justice ('free our leaders' ?).

- Sunday 23rd more fun promised

I guess till now no comments yet from other 'red-shirt' factions.

[Insight]

Mrs Thida urged the business operators to look back at the root causes of why people come out to protest, saying that while the UDD is ready to facilitate the business operators to certain extent, but will not cooperate with the government.

That's what she calls it?

[rubl]

In democracies groups have a right to demonstrate. Mostly the organizers and the police will setup a meeting to discuss subject, route, attendance, limitations, security issues, first-aid preparations/stations, start/stop time, etc., etc. This to ensure a peaceful rally with minimal disturbance.

If the Ratchaprasong business people don't like being singled out for protests they should start talks with police and rally organizers to reach a compromise.

Democracy is action, you've got to love it

What an utterly stupid thing to say. Do you have *any idea* what happened at Ratchaprasong last year? Like shooting people, throwing bombs and finally burning a fair bit of it down? Is that a "peaceful rally with minimal disturbance"?

You're in Thailand now, things work a bit differently here.

Read again, dear friend. I only refer to the continued protests as indicated by various 'red-shirt' factions for twice a months at Ratchaprasong. That's also in line with the OP.

Do some research, I have frequently said I was in Bangkok all the time. Even using BTS and walking from Saladaeng to UCL on RamaIV. First sometimes with yellow shirt, later only pink. Intimidation worked I guess

(edit: add: to be fair, with PAD exploiting yellow, it was time to move to a new color anyway)

(edit2: a typo, original should have been 'democracy in action')

Edited January 12, 2011 by rubl

[Crushdepth]

The Red Shirts are well known for the excellent cooperation and cheerful dialogue with the authorities.

[jayboy]

In democracies groups have a right to demonstrate. Mostly the organizers and the police will setup a meeting to discuss subject, route, attendance, limitations, security issues, first-aid preparations/stations, start/stop time, etc., etc. This to ensure a peaceful rally with minimal disturbance.

If the Ratchaprasong business people don't like being singled out for protests they should start talks with police and rally organizers to reach a compromise.

Democracy is action, you've got to love it

What an utterly stupid thing to say. Do you have *any idea* what happened at Ratchaprasong last year? Like shooting people, throwing bombs and finally burning a fair bit of it down? Is that a "peaceful rally with minimal disturbance"?

You're in Thailand now, things work a bit differently here.

No the original comment was very pertinent.The Red Shirts have every right to protest peacefully and obviously this should be done in liaison with police and other authorities, who in turn should consult local residents and business people.

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

[timekeeper]

Red-shirt leader Thida Thawornseth said the last Sunday's rally was proof of the movement strength and the determination to seek justice to people killed in the crackdown and those held in remand for eight months.

"Businesses should be mindful of those killed and injured in Ratchaprasong," she said.

if they weren't gathered there illegally then then would not have been injured or killed

they had a perfectly good and legal rally site where they could have protested peacefully

instead, the red leaders decided to increase the stakes and move their sheeple to Ratchaprasong where they could harass the public and terrorize the city

they were asked to move many many times, even negotiating directly with the PM who offered to concede some political ground to keep the peace

but the puppet red leaders responded negatively after Thaksin said no way

the red sheeple and their masters were the masters of their own destiny

in my view, som nom na to them all and mak mak to Thaksin

"They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind"..........

[jdinasia]

No the original comment was very pertinent.The Red Shirts have every right to protest peacefully and obviously this should be done in liaison with police and other authorities, who in turn should consult local residents and business people.

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. We are not talking about as you so snidely put it "people who like to hang in BKK's upmarket malls" we are talking about the rights of the citizens (not just the reds) to conduct business and go about their lives unimpeded. The more important issues would be what? Democracy? Rule of Law? Those are certainly things that the reds have proven that they are NOT interested in. As you so eloquently put it "screw them".

[hammered]

You do not advance demcoracy by denying the democratic rights of others.

[MunterHunter]

You do not advance demcoracy by denying the democratic rights of others.

You do not advance demcoracy by denying the civil rights of others.

[jayboy]

No the original comment was very pertinent.The Red Shirts have every right to protest peacefully and obviously this should be done in liaison with police and other authorities, who in turn should consult local residents and business people.

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. We are not talking about as you so snidely put it "people who like to hang in BKK's upmarket malls" we are talking about the rights of the citizens (not just the reds) to conduct business and go about their lives unimpeded. The more important issues would be what? Democracy? Rule of Law? Those are certainly things that the reds have proven that they are NOT interested in. As you so eloquently put it "screw them".

Sorry but your tunnel vision is showing.I sympathise with those who are inconvenienced but in the greater scheme of things (the future direction of the country) it's not that important.As I stressed demonstrations of whatever hue should be peaceful and co-ordinated/supervised by the appropriate authorities.

My "hang out" comment was really just a reflection of disgust at those last year who appeared more concerned at lack of access to their vulgar malls than their fellow countrymen mowed down in the street.

[jdinasia]

You do not advance demcoracy by denying the democratic rights of others.

Concur. In this case the right to protest itself is not being questioned. The question is the venue and that venue's impact on others. Then again Thida has said she will not cooperate with the government. That fairly well cancels out the right to protest at her chosen site.

[jdinasia]

Sorry but your tunnel vision is showing.I sympathise with those who are inconvenienced but in the greater scheme of things (the future direction of the country) it's not that important.As I stressed demonstrations of whatever hue should be peaceful and co-ordinated/supervised by the appropriate authorities.

My "hang out" comment was really just a reflection of disgust at those last year who appeared more concerned at lack of access to their vulgar malls than their fellow countrymen mowed down in the street.

The choice of that venue will not affect the future direction of this country. That is YOUR tunnel vision. The deaths throughout April and May are very sad, the grenade attacks against companies opposed to the red shirts are very sad. The fact that the reds are not interested in Democracy or rule of law becomes the deciding factor. Simply said, the people (many of them quite poor) that obtain their livelihoods from working there are more important in the scheme of things than the reds desire to elicit sympathy for a group that certainly has used terrorist tactics and openly states they will not cooperate with the government. You stress that they should be peaceful demonstrations but the ones that led to the April and May crackdowns were not. You say they should be coordinated and supervised but the redshirt leader has already stated she will not cooperate.

I feel the same disgust you do but with a different group of people. The redshirt leaders that played with the lives of their mostly-paid followers (yet quickly ended things when it got hot near their precious bodies) are the target of my disgust. Their vulgar disregard for the lives entrusted to them even if for pay makes me sick. The people that deny the facts of Seh Daeng's Ronin in their midst makes me ill as well.You really did say it right in the other post. "screw them"

[webfact]

PM asks police to help Ratchaprasong traders, Red Shirt protesters find solution to prevent negative impact on business /MCOT

[Buchholz]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Yeah, screw 'em...

RSTA said 2,088 operators lost 11 billion baht

Chai estimated that 33,000 jobs, mainly in the retail and tourism sectors, could be at risk in the Ratchaprasong area if the protests continued.

Returning Thaksin to power is far more important than 33,000 losing their jobs or businesses losing 11 Billion Baht.

[hanuman1]

No the original comment was very pertinent.The Red Shirts have every right to protest peacefully and obviously this should be done in liaison with police and other authorities, who in turn should consult local residents and business people.

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. We are not talking about as you so snidely put it "people who like to hang in BKK's upmarket malls" we are talking about the rights of the citizens (not just the reds) to conduct business and go about their lives unimpeded. The more important issues would be what? Democracy? Rule of Law? Those are certainly things that the reds have proven that they are NOT interested in. As you so eloquently put it "screw them".

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others.

The authorities in this country apparently disagree with you. Unless you are suggesting that the redshirt movement holds some sway over them.

[rubl]

PM asks police to help Ratchaprasong traders, Red Shirt protesters find solution to prevent negative impact on business /MCOT

That's democracy at work. Try to live together, work together. Mind you democracy in action can be like watching grass grow .

I only hope that k. Thida's remark 'not cooperate with the government' excludes the police.

[slapout]

If the affected businesses feel/know their business has suffered due to these marches/protests, I applaud them for trying to get the situation controlled. If there is not a permit/approval guideline in place then there should be and those affected are those that should have the right to get enforcement or enactment before the fact.

There are plenty of venues for this type of group to hold their rally, where they do no harm to business. Recently a similar rally in CM was regulated to a stadium and a short march was allowed afterwords. If the red shirts had the pro democracy motives they claim, they would have foreseen this and would as some have mentioned, paid for the privilege (that is what it is) thus satisfying the majority of those affected or gone somewhere out of sight and mind.

[jonclark]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake.

I'm sure when the airport was taken over by the yellows, you thought .".if the protests inconvenience those who are able to fly, screw them . There are more important issues at stake ??"

Am I right?? .....Thought not.

[hanuman1]

If the affected businesses feel/know their business has suffered due to these marches/protests, I applaud them for trying to get the situation controlled. If there is not a permit/approval guideline in place then there should be and those affected are those that should have the right to get enforcement or enactment before the fact.

There are plenty of venues for this type of group to hold their rally, where they do no harm to business. Recently a similar rally in CM was regulated to a stadium and a short march was allowed afterwords. If the red shirts had the pro democracy motives they claim, they would have foreseen this and would as some have mentioned, paid for the privilege (that is what it is) thus satisfying the majority of those affected or gone somewhere out of sight and mind.

Most civilized countries view demonstrating as a human right, not a 'privilege' that has to be paid for. Whilst the redshirts obviously have a large degree of responsibility for these demonstrations (obviously), the other significant portion of responsibility rests with the relevant authorities, without whose agreement the demonstrations wouldn't be able to proceed.

So have a go at the red shirts if you want, but why no criticism of the government for allowing it? Are they doing their job properly or not?

[slapout]

I do not know if there are permits required for this. I did point how it was handled by authorities and protesters in CM. I do feel it is a shame that the groups who want to rally would not be mature enough to consider the business and the inconvenience they cause others and then the authorities would only be needed for monitoring, not enforcement.

Yes, I consider it a privilege to use/have access to facilities paid for by taxpayers or the private sector when I am using them.

A further note, It appears it takes about 10 to 12 BIB to set up a motorcycle check, what number would be required to enforce a no march zone against 20,000 to 30,000 demonstrators?

[jayboy]

The choice of that venue will not affect the future direction of this country. That is YOUR tunnel vision. The deaths throughout April and May are very sad, the grenade attacks against companies opposed to the red shirts are very sad. The fact that the reds are not interested in Democracy or rule of law becomes the deciding factor. Simply said, the people (many of them quite poor) that obtain their livelihoods from working there are more important in the scheme of things than the reds desire to elicit sympathy for a group that certainly has used terrorist tactics and openly states they will not cooperate with the government. You stress that they should be peaceful demonstrations but the ones that led to the April and May crackdowns were not. You say they should be coordinated and supervised but the redshirt leader has already stated she will not cooperate.

I feel the same disgust you do but with a different group of people. The redshirt leaders that played with the lives of their mostly-paid followers (yet quickly ended things when it got hot near their precious bodies) are the target of my disgust. Their vulgar disregard for the lives entrusted to them even if for pay makes me sick. The people that deny the facts of Seh Daeng's Ronin in their midst makes me ill as well.You really did say it right in the other post. "screw them"

I don't understand much of your post I'm afraid, full of bizarre and unsupported prescriptive definitions

You are possibly letting your dislike and ignorance (still absurdly arguing they are in it for pay) of the redshirts run away with you.I thought we were basically talking about management of demonstrations anyway.If Thida etc won't cooperate with the authorities about peaceful protests she deserves no sympathy (though let's see how this works out in practice).Human life is more important than property.

[jdinasia]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake.

I'm sure when the airport was taken over by the yellows, you thought .".if the protests inconvenience those who are able to fly, screw them . There are more important issues at stake ??"

Am I right?? .....Thought not.

LOL

Bingo!

Hanuman --- unrestricted access to protest is not a protected right. The government SHOULD crackdown on this crap, but Abhisit is trying to play 'nice'. Thida may have given him grounds to take a stronger stance with here "we will no cooperate with the government" statement. The goal of this demonstration is disruption and show of force/power. The government will either have to take criticism locally and suffer the vote losses OR act. Deny them the Central World area venue and insist that they pick PanFah, Democracy monument, Parliament, or Gov't house venues.

I like the idea of allowing them use of the stadium at RU, but I pity the students there if they do.

[jdinasia]

The choice of that venue will not affect the future direction of this country. That is YOUR tunnel vision. The deaths throughout April and May are very sad, the grenade attacks against companies opposed to the red shirts are very sad. The fact that the reds are not interested in Democracy or rule of law becomes the deciding factor. Simply said, the people (many of them quite poor) that obtain their livelihoods from working there are more important in the scheme of things than the reds desire to elicit sympathy for a group that certainly has used terrorist tactics and openly states they will not cooperate with the government. You stress that they should be peaceful demonstrations but the ones that led to the April and May crackdowns were not. You say they should be coordinated and supervised but the redshirt leader has already stated she will not cooperate.

I feel the same disgust you do but with a different group of people. The redshirt leaders that played with the lives of their mostly-paid followers (yet quickly ended things when it got hot near their precious bodies) are the target of my disgust. Their vulgar disregard for the lives entrusted to them even if for pay makes me sick. The people that deny the facts of Seh Daeng's Ronin in their midst makes me ill as well.You really did say it right in the other post. "screw them"

I don't understand much of your post I'm afraid, full of bizarre and unsupported prescriptive definitions

You are possibly letting your dislike and ignorance (still absurdly arguing they are in it for pay) of the redshirts run away with you.I thought we were basically talking about management of demonstrations anyway.If Thida etc won't cooperate with the authorities about peaceful protests she deserves no sympathy (though let's see how this works out in practice).Human life is more important than property.

I am sorry that you are incapable of understanding much.

Human rights are more important than the rights of a violent group to lay siege on any place they want. Telling them no, and having them fail to observe lawful orders should end them in jail. If they are armed like they were in April and May then there will ,of course, be more blood on the streets. That is their goal in the long run anyways.

Your quote of the day "screw them" is still very applicable.