Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[james24]

Hi guys

Does anyone know of a place where they grow "real" organic vegetables...?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

you mean a place that sells "real" organic or the actual farms that grow them?

[james24]

you mean a place that sells "real" organic or the actual farms that grow them?

either would be great.

Also anyone know of a 100% natural aloe vera moisturiser on sale anywhere.

And yes if you've guessed Im on a health kick at the mo lol

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

lots advertised as organic but few test out as such.

Talk to Khun Nong who owns Baan Suan Pak store. She tests incoming produce for PVC's with simple chemical tests with small samples.

You can even buy your own test kit from the hospital supply place. Not expensive at all.

A few choices of true PVC free produce but mostly its reduced pesticide fare that is available.

Lots of places will say Organic because they can charge more but you can guess the conflict of interest there.

There are small farms around here and there that at least claim to be organic. You kind of have to narrow down what your looking for and them track them down from there.

As far as buying things the two health food stores. Tops and Rimping have small organic sections and a few of the Royal project outlets would be the most reliable.

Unfortunately I have "heard" quite a bit of the Govt outlets don't test out fully organic but at least they are lower pesticide.

Reduced pesticide is pretty good and then just be smart about washing and/or peeling when it makes sense. Some produce tends to have less toxic issues than others.

Also a good idea to make sure to ingest natural chelating greens like Cilantro which are known to draw out toxic metals etc.

[james24]

Brilliant advice thanks alot.

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

By the way where is Baan Suan Pak...?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Brilliant advice thanks alot.

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

By the way where is Baan Suan Pak...?

[uptoyoumyfriend]

the vegetarian society at mahidol rd and the little store next to the vegetarian orchid (across from president hotel) have/used to have some ,there is also supposedly a market in / near majo , there were topics before....try the search function

[drtreelove]

http://www.fairearthfarm.com/

Jeff is very active in the local organic farming and permaculture community in Chiang Mai and knows most of the farmers and collectives and organic farmers markets.

Also, there is an organic farmers market at JJ market in Kamtieng area near Lotus/Tesco (superhwy), I think it's Saturday morning.

[drtreelove]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

Have you seen the movie "FOOD, INC"?

[Drew Aitch]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

[drtreelove]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

If longevity is the criteria for health, you may be right. But is a long life a real measure of health? My mother is 99 and now on her deathbed, but she has been suffering for a long time and I have been asking my self for several years, what's the point of just being kept alive that long. I got more interested in natural health and healing after working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech and seeing first hand the extent of chronic illness in American society. A huge number of very sick people are being kept alive by modern medicine; is that health?

And yes, marketing and deception are a big part of the food industry. But quality of life is more important to some of us than being kept alive with machines and medications; If you ever experience the good taste of well grown food, true health and energy derived from a healthy lifestyle, then you may become a believer. The best experience is to grow some of your own food, then you are closer to the process and in control of the input. It's also good to become involved with something like 'community supported agriculture' and farmers markets where you can meet farmers and sometimes see the farms, and not stay so removed from the process of growing food.

Organic means different things to different people, for some it is just the absense of pesticide residues on the food they eat. For others it is the whole package of participating in and contributing to practices that have less negative environmental impact like depletion of soil fertility, contamination of groundwater, rivers and sea with agricultural chemicals, and so on. Organic growing methods are intended to be more ecologically friendly and environmenally sound and many people would like to support and be part of that orientation rather than the conventional, chemical farming methods that are shortsighted, environmentally destructive and unsustainable.

[drtreelove]

FYI for those interested, there is an organic gardening/farming subforum on TV

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/142-organic-farming-smallholding-and-kitchen-gardening/

[Drew Aitch]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

If longevity is the criteria for health, you may be right. But is a long life a real measure of health? My mother is 99 and now on her deathbed, but she has been suffering for a long time and I have been asking my self for several years, what's the point of just being kept alive that long. I got more interested in natural health and healing after working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech and seeing first hand the extent of chronic illness in American society. A huge number of very sick people are being kept alive by modern medicine; is that health?

And yes, marketing and deception are a big part of the food industry. But quality of life is more important to some of us than being kept alive with machines and medications; If you ever experience the good taste of well grown food, true health and energy derived from a healthy lifestyle, then you may become a believer. The best experience is to grow some of your own food, then you are closer to the process and in control of the input. It's also good to become involved with something like 'community supported agriculture' and farmers markets where you can meet farmers and sometimes see the farms, and not stay so removed from the process of growing food.

Organic means different things to different people, for some it is just the absense of pesticide residues on the food they eat. For others it is the whole package of participating in and contributing to practices that have less negative environmental impact like depletion of soil fertility, contamination of groundwater, rivers and sea with agricultural chemicals, and so on. Organic growing methods are intended to be more ecologically friendly and environmenally sound and many people would like to support and be part of that orientation rather than the conventional, chemical farming methods that are shortsighted, environmentally destructive and unsustainable.

Hi drtreelove

Yes, i agree with a lot of what you say. Give me quality of anything over quantity any day, including life. My brief piece above did touch on a number of issues that are often answered only at the mercy of others, that is, the so called professionals in the field. Professionals, i hasten to add, who most of us don't know personally and therefore are left to make a decision as to whether we believe the findings of these strangers or not. We know from the past that anything related to research on health and wellbeing is never conclusive.

Don't get me wrong, the 'organic findings' may well be accurate. Who am I to say? But they may not be so accurate too. It certainly seems logical that foods free of toxins have to be healthier, but how much healthier is not really known. Is it? Surely there was a time when farmers and scientist assured the general public that insecticides and pesticides were perfectly safe and posed no harmful consequences to consumers?

Either way, if folks are convinced now in the 'back to basics' approach to growing crops, then there could also be a placebo type affect, meaning people are positive they feel great as a direct result of eating the recommended foods, even when there is no scientific physical or mental proof to back up their claims.

We've seen it all over the years, haven't we! Potatoes are good for you. 20 years later they're bad! Other foods that were said to do us the power of good became cancer magnets! And so the list goes on, and on, and on, as it will undoubtedly continue to do so in the future.

I mean, for crying out loud, cigarettes were supposed to be medicinal just 2 generations ago! Lethargic smokers would cough-up early morning dollops of phlegm that resembled malignant jellyfish in the bathroom sink, and even then folks bought into that feel-good factor associated with smoking! How did one commercial go? Oh yeah, '8 out of 10 doctors prefer Craven A! The Doctor's choice of cigarettes'!

I know i took your original post off on a slight tangent, so sorry for that. What sprung my QUERTY keyboard into action was the young couple i saw this evening in TOPS supermarket. They put 2 litres of drinking water into their basket at over 250 Baht/ltr, and i just couldn't help wonder what benefits they were expecting to get after they drank it. Someone, or some report somewhere must have convinced them of some health benefits for buying the stuff. They might like the taste of it, but at 250 Baht/ltr, i bet there's a lot of cheaper alternatives out there that taste equally as good!!! Sounds like they've bought into some H2O hype to me!

I know one thing for sure, if they'd spent the same amount of cash on Chang Classic, they'd certainly notice something different about their state of being without the need to convince themselves!

Aitch

Edited January 18, 2011 by Drew Aitch

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

5555. Yeah Drew don't worry about organic if your downing Chang Classics (aka Thai embalming fluid). That is like ordering a bucket of extra crispy fried chicken or a dozen creme filled donuts and then opting for the Diet Coke. Too little too late.

Have to look at diet and lifestyle in a larger context.

Organic is a premium cost food and can help a person get to a new higher level of health and awareness but only if the basics are in order first.

I know people in the states who eat crap like donuts or smoke cigarettes and then say "it's okay because its organic"

Organic is no silver bullet.

Edited January 19, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[SomchaiCNX]

As told before, at Mckean they have their own small organic farm and they sell it (cheap)

Now you are going to ask me where is Mckean?

[wolf5370]

Did you watch Penn & Teller's BullSh!t on organic food? Very worth watching - shows the hype and the facts. They do it using the last supper as a visual aid - with each person at the table representing a so-called benefit to organic food (eccology, health, pesticides/chemicals, small farmers, etc) - each is investigated and each debunked (actually many of the supposed benefits turns out to be much worse than the opposite). Anyway, you can watch it online (series 6 or 7 I think) and its well worth the watch (but not with the kids - Penn does love to swear!)

Edited January 19, 2011 by wolf5370

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Did you watch Penn & Teller's BullSh!t on organic food? Very worth watching - shows the hype and the facts. They do it using the last supper as a visual aid - with each person at the table representing a so-called benefit to organic food (eccology, health, pesticides/chemicals, small farmers, etc) - each is investigated and each debunked (actually many of the supposed benefits turns out to be much worse than the opposite). Anyway, you can watch it online (series 6 or 7 I think) and its well worth the watch (but not with the kids - Penn does love to swear!)

I like watching that show but don't put a lot of stock in it. Penn for example is a big bloated fat guy. How long until we read about his whatever cancer or heart bypass? They have slammed lots of concepts which really do work like Martial arts. There are plenty of 140 # girls who could choke his fat ass out.

They are just in it to make some ratings and I like watching them make fun of people.

It's too bad though because some of the topics they have slammed do have real merits. People love cheap shot entertainment which supports their beliefs.. It's why Fox news is so popular for example.

I do agree though a lot about organic is overblown fear mongering but there are some important benefits also.

The truth seems to lie somewhere between the extremes.

[wolf5370]

Did you watch Penn & Teller's BullSh!t on organic food? Very worth watching - shows the hype and the facts. They do it using the last supper as a visual aid - with each person at the table representing a so-called benefit to organic food (eccology, health, pesticides/chemicals, small farmers, etc) - each is investigated and each debunked (actually many of the supposed benefits turns out to be much worse than the opposite). Anyway, you can watch it online (series 6 or 7 I think) and its well worth the watch (but not with the kids - Penn does love to swear!)

I like watching that show but don't put a lot of stock in it. Penn for example is a big bloated fat guy. How long until we read about his whatever cancer or heart bypass? They have slammed lots of concepts which really do work like Martial arts. There are plenty of 140 # girls who could choke his fat ass out.

They are just in it to make some ratings and I like watching them make fun of people.

It's too bad though because some of the topics they have slammed do have real merits. People love cheap shot entertainment which supports their beliefs.. It's why Fox news is so popular for example.

I do agree though a lot about organic is overblown fear mongering but there are some important benefits also.

The truth seems to lie somewhere between the extremes.

The truth always is IMO. The interesting thing I got from this programme though was the bit about pesticides and fertalisers (i.e. that it is a myth that pesticides/fertalisers are not used in organic farming, its just the type of pesticide - some natural ones are much more damaging to the envirnment) and the fact that if the world was completely organic, then it could not feed about 3 billion people of the world's population. Also that the people with the biggest stake in organic farms are the same super-companies that own the in-organic ones! In blind taste testes, most people could not tell the difference (or actively chose the non-organic product) and in tests as to healthiness(vitamins etc) there was no difference. People live longer now and have helthier lives than they did when all farming was "organic". So, its hard to see what the benefit is and what justifies the extra costs.

I will admit that back in my home country I always bought organic veg/eggs/etc (don't eat red meat or foul so that didn't concern me directly) alonmg with non-farmed/line caught fish. All was much more expensive, but as it turned out it is generally a waste of money - and we are all being duped to push up profit margins (at the cost to the envirnment too it seems).

I also see buying organic food because it (in theory) contains less chemicals is somewhat muted given the chemicals in the air and everything else here. Lets face it, eccology and public health is not a great concern here, especially when it runs into profits. Add to that the lack of consumer rights and enforcement, what are the odds we are actually getting what we pay (extra) for in the first place? How many alluminium pans are scraped with steel spatulas and spoons here during the cooking process (wooden or plastic utensils exist but are far less common) - a known attributing factor to dementure.

PS: I agree P&T hit at some things that seem odd - like martial arts, the Vatican and area 51 (like who cares?) - but also give some mythes a serious work over - like anti-vaccinations/astrology/teen sex/taxes/organic foods - that makes it worthwhile as a critique/myth-buster. Its also darned funny too

[james24]

Thanks guys some great advice here, gonna check out those movies too..

I think one thing to remember is that science is always being proved wrong or updated.

However from what Ive learnt about fluoride, aspartame and some of the stuff they put in moisturisers its worth doing a bit more research before buying certain things.

Thanks again

[Sansai Sam]

The main branch of Bake & Bite is selling a large variety of organic vegetables daily.

[seesip]

The Royal Project grows vegetables that are apparently checked carefully for pesticides, etc., and I understand their standards are high since they sell a lot of their produce for export. There's a store that sells Royal Project produce, it's on Huay Kaew towards the Zoo, on the right hand side if you're heading towards Doi Suthep. They also have a decent selection of RP vegetables at Carrefour. Ask they should be able to point it out to you.

[thaitar]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

Average life span statistics are skewed due to lower children deaths. Before a lot of modern medicine was invented, many kids died at birth. Now they don't. In my great grandmother's family, only 3 out of 9 kids survived into adulthood. And if you eliminate children deaths, then our life expectancy is actually significantly lower than before.

[thaitar]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

If longevity is the criteria for health, you may be right. But is a long life a real measure of health? My mother is 99 and now on her deathbed, but she has been suffering for a long time and I have been asking my self for several years, what's the point of just being kept alive that long. I got more interested in natural health and healing after working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech and seeing first hand the extent of chronic illness in American society. A huge number of very sick people are being kept alive by modern medicine; is that health?

And yes, marketing and deception are a big part of the food industry. But quality of life is more important to some of us than being kept alive with machines and medications; If you ever experience the good taste of well grown food, true health and energy derived from a healthy lifestyle, then you may become a believer. The best experience is to grow some of your own food, then you are closer to the process and in control of the input. It's also good to become involved with something like 'community supported agriculture' and farmers markets where you can meet farmers and sometimes see the farms, and not stay so removed from the process of growing food.

Organic means different things to different people, for some it is just the absense of pesticide residues on the food they eat. For others it is the whole package of participating in and contributing to practices that have less negative environmental impact like depletion of soil fertility, contamination of groundwater, rivers and sea with agricultural chemicals, and so on. Organic growing methods are intended to be more ecologically friendly and environmenally sound and many people would like to support and be part of that orientation rather than the conventional, chemical farming methods that are shortsighted, environmentally destructive and unsustainable.

Dr.Tree Love hits the nail on the head. Quality vs quantity. If it was a choice, I'd rather live healthily until 60-70, than be sick until 100. And another good point is the taste of food. If you taste the veggies that are properly grown, you'll feel the difference. My grandmother grew many veggies and I know the taste of real veggies. I haven't had good tomatoes in a LOOOONG time. Canadian tomatoes are just not like that. They are green on the inside. Here, I found some good ones, like the ones my grandma had. Meaty, juicy and delicious. Same goes for onions. They are just screaming flavour. And many other veggies.

[thaitar]

Did you watch Penn & Teller's BullSh!t on organic food? Very worth watching - shows the hype and the facts. They do it using the last supper as a visual aid - with each person at the table representing a so-called benefit to organic food (eccology, health, pesticides/chemicals, small farmers, etc) - each is investigated and each debunked (actually many of the supposed benefits turns out to be much worse than the opposite). Anyway, you can watch it online (series 6 or 7 I think) and its well worth the watch (but not with the kids - Penn does love to swear!)

I like watching that show but don't put a lot of stock in it. Penn for example is a big bloated fat guy. How long until we read about his whatever cancer or heart bypass? They have slammed lots of concepts which really do work like Martial arts. There are plenty of 140 # girls who could choke his fat ass out.

They are just in it to make some ratings and I like watching them make fun of people.

It's too bad though because some of the topics they have slammed do have real merits. People love cheap shot entertainment which supports their beliefs.. It's why Fox news is so popular for example.

I do agree though a lot about organic is overblown fear mongering but there are some important benefits also.

The truth seems to lie somewhere between the extremes.

The truth always is IMO. The interesting thing I got from this programme though was the bit about pesticides and fertalisers (i.e. that it is a myth that pesticides/fertalisers are not used in organic farming, its just the type of pesticide - some natural ones are much more damaging to the envirnment) and the fact that if the world was completely organic, then it could not feed about 3 billion people of the world's population. Also that the people with the biggest stake in organic farms are the same super-companies that own the in-organic ones! In blind taste testes, most people could not tell the difference (or actively chose the non-organic product) and in tests as to healthiness(vitamins etc) there was no difference. People live longer now and have helthier lives than they did when all farming was "organic". So, its hard to see what the benefit is and what justifies the extra costs.

I will admit that back in my home country I always bought organic veg/eggs/etc (don't eat red meat or foul so that didn't concern me directly) alonmg with non-farmed/line caught fish. All was much more expensive, but as it turned out it is generally a waste of money - and we are all being duped to push up profit margins (at the cost to the envirnment too it seems).

I also see buying organic food because it (in theory) contains less chemicals is somewhat muted given the chemicals in the air and everything else here. Lets face it, eccology and public health is not a great concern here, especially when it runs into profits. Add to that the lack of consumer rights and enforcement, what are the odds we are actually getting what we pay (extra) for in the first place? How many alluminium pans are scraped with steel spatulas and spoons here during the cooking process (wooden or plastic utensils exist but are far less common) - a known attributing factor to dementure.

PS: I agree P&T hit at some things that seem odd - like martial arts, the Vatican and area 51 (like who cares?) - but also give some mythes a serious work over - like anti-vaccinations/astrology/teen sex/taxes/organic foods - that makes it worthwhile as a critique/myth-buster. Its also darned funny too

Yes, the big companies that grow "organic" will always cheat. What else to expect? However, if you know a bit about agriculture, then you cannot simply sustain healthy produce with just chem fertilizers and pesticides. Veggies will grow, but they will be depleted of the important vitamins and nutrients. Soil needs to be "alive" in order to grow good veggies. Most of the commercial farming soil is mostly "dead" and they keep it "alive" by pumping it with fertilizer such as Nitrogen. It's like if I hooked you up to an IV with some basic nutrients just to keep you alive. Surely you can stay alive, but the quality of your life isn't going to be great. You need bio diversity of soil to have a good, tasty and nutritious produce. Watch Food, Inc. - it talks about soil and it's importance. Great movie. Also provides solutions to the unhealthy agricultural practices.

[jayjay0]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

If longevity is the criteria for health, you may be right. But is a long life a real measure of health? My mother is 99 and now on her deathbed, but she has been suffering for a long time and I have been asking my self for several years, what's the point of just being kept alive that long. I got more interested in natural health and healing after working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech and seeing first hand the extent of chronic illness in American society. A huge number of very sick people are being kept alive by modern medicine; is that health?

And yes, marketing and deception are a big part of the food industry. But quality of life is more important to some of us than being kept alive with machines and medications; If you ever experience the good taste of well grown food, true health and energy derived from a healthy lifestyle, then you may become a believer. The best experience is to grow some of your own food, then you are closer to the process and in control of the input. It's also good to become involved with something like 'community supported agriculture' and farmers markets where you can meet farmers and sometimes see the farms, and not stay so removed from the process of growing food.

Organic means different things to different people, for some it is just the absense of pesticide residues on the food they eat. For others it is the whole package of participating in and contributing to practices that have less negative environmental impact like depletion of soil fertility, contamination of groundwater, rivers and sea with agricultural chemicals, and so on. Organic growing methods are intended to be more ecologically friendly and environmenally sound and many people would like to support and be part of that orientation rather than the conventional, chemical farming methods that are shortsighted, environmentally destructive and unsustainable.

I have to agree with both you and drew. You both put forth strong points with a lot of room for interaction.

Where I come from to be certified as organic there was certain requirements. What they did was limit what could and could not be used and how munch of it.

Besides I thought when they said organically grown they were talking about the fertilizer that was used. That to me would seem to be the main criteria. After all you can wash the food.

Not my strong point so I could be wrong.

[jayjay0]

I just watched a programme about aspartame and couldn't believe the stuff they are getting away with.

One can't help but wonder what the real benefits are of these so called 'organically grown crops'. I mean, a lot folks nowadays generally live to a ripe old age when compared to those of a few generations ago.

Yet weren't our great grandparents, and those before them all, munching on organic crops long before pesticides and insecticides came along? Whatever the benefits were, it didn't seem to help much on the longevity side of things, nor with building a super-strong immune system able to fight off all the common ills!

Many would say that our current longevity is brought about as a direct result of therapeutic machines and pharmaceutical medications, but we know that's not really true. Is it?

But to read all this stuff about consuming poisons and sucking in pollution etc, it's a wonder any of us over 40 are able to breathe in the twenty-first century, let alone chew on a carrot!!! Yet here we all are, going along quite nicely thank you very much!

I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps this organic malarkey along with its overpriced bottled bunkum, AKA drinking water, is yet another massive scam of sorts to scare folks into buying into these pricy products and services.

I myself am often looking for the 'next best health advice', yet any accumulated knowledge I might have only comes from what I've read or heard from others 'in the know'. Maybe that's all I need to know, who knows!!!

Aitch

If longevity is the criteria for health, you may be right. But is a long life a real measure of health? My mother is 99 and now on her deathbed, but she has been suffering for a long time and I have been asking my self for several years, what's the point of just being kept alive that long. I got more interested in natural health and healing after working as a paramedic ambulance and ER tech and seeing first hand the extent of chronic illness in American society. A huge number of very sick people are being kept alive by modern medicine; is that health?

And yes, marketing and deception are a big part of the food industry. But quality of life is more important to some of us than being kept alive with machines and medications; If you ever experience the good taste of well grown food, true health and energy derived from a healthy lifestyle, then you may become a believer. The best experience is to grow some of your own food, then you are closer to the process and in control of the input. It's also good to become involved with something like 'community supported agriculture' and farmers markets where you can meet farmers and sometimes see the farms, and not stay so removed from the process of growing food.

Organic means different things to different people, for some it is just the absense of pesticide residues on the food they eat. For others it is the whole package of participating in and contributing to practices that have less negative environmental impact like depletion of soil fertility, contamination of groundwater, rivers and sea with agricultural chemicals, and so on. Organic growing methods are intended to be more ecologically friendly and environmenally sound and many people would like to support and be part of that orientation rather than the conventional, chemical farming methods that are shortsighted, environmentally destructive and unsustainable.

Dr.Tree Love hits the nail on the head. Quality vs quantity. If it was a choice, I'd rather live healthily until 60-70, than be sick until 100. And another good point is the taste of food. If you taste the veggies that are properly grown, you'll feel the difference. My grandmother grew many veggies and I know the taste of real veggies. I haven't had good tomatoes in a LOOOONG time. Canadian tomatoes are just not like that. They are green on the inside. Here, I found some good ones, like the ones my grandma had. Meaty, juicy and delicious. Same goes for onions. They are just screaming flavour. And many other veggies.

Excellent point.

One part of living a long and healthy life is to not completely avoid illness. People who are sheltered from all the negative influences in child hood grow up to be more susceptible to various negative points in are environment. they must stay alert at all times. Some of the negative things in life do help us to build up are immune system.

My ex was like that constantly watching out for this or that drove me nuts. She will probably out live me but I can live and eat in Thailand with out fear. The quality of her life is low.

[thaitar]

Excellent point.

One part of living a long and healthy life is to not completely avoid illness. People who are sheltered from all the negative influences in child hood grow up to be more susceptible to various negative points in are environment. they must stay alert at all times. Some of the negative things in life do help us to build up are immune system.

My ex was like that constantly watching out for this or that drove me nuts. She will probably out live me but I can live and eat in Thailand with out fear. The quality of her life is low.

Yup no doubt. I grew up in a country (not Canada) where kids are not sheltered and are allowed to roll around in dirt and eat with dirty hands and so on. Stil up to this day, I consciously allow myself certain level of dirtiness. I will wash hands after the toilet of course hehe, but I am ok with eating a carrot that has a little bit of dirt still on it. THe other day I was eating spinach from Thanin market and there was a bug in it. I still ate it minus the bug.

[drtreelove]

FYI for those interested:

http://www.soilminerals.com/AgricolaI.htm

[WtFugarwe]

There is an organic NGO farm in Ban Bo Hin on the Doi Saket Road (www.NEED-Burma.org) . They welcome visitors and offer tours and are 100% organic, a training centre fr young Burmese farmers to learn the organic method and return to Burma to implement and teach same. They sell some veggies-- the local dry season vegetables are not in yet anywhere (I think)--maybe in a couple weeks.

[james24]

Thanks for all your help guys.

Ive definately got loads of places to check out now.

I'm now on the hunt for good natural toothpaste.

I've found one funnily enough which is 29baht and found it in Tesco. It lists the ingrediants on the back and looks pretty good, I'll let you know if my teeth fall out :-)