willyumcr Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I have read about this rip off on one of the forums here. Yesterday it was tried on me. I went to pay my bill with the cashier at Pattaya International Hospital. The bill came to 2,392 baht. When I went to sign the credit charge (debt account on USA bank) there were two amounts. The 2,392 baht and also it was converted to US $ rate at 29.41 for a total of $81.33. I told the cashier I only wanted to pay in Thai baht. She just smiled and said no problem and voided the slip and made a new one. When I got home I checked on line with my bank (Charles Schwab) and was charged $78.23 (30.57) While this was around 100 baht ($3) cheaper than had I accepted their rate, what would it have been if it was a serious hospital stay at say 100,000 baht? This is the first time this has happened to me. I use the card at Carrefour and Villa Mart and am only charged in Thai baht, not their conversion low rate. Anyway people must be aware that if you accept their rate of exchange you are going to lose. By the way, Schwab bank does not charge Foreign transaction fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 why moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 why moved? Dunno, but it will get better exposure here as it's a common problem. It's not the hospital (or HomePro or any of the other outlets that do this, and there are many) per-se performing a scam. I don't think they'll actually get more Baht from the deal as the rates are set by Visa / Mastercard, but you will invariably lose out on the exchange rate if you opt to pay in your own currency. It always happens when I use my UK card in Homepro and they always change to charge in Baht when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 why moved? Dunno, but it will get better exposure here as it's a common problem. It's not the hospital (or HomePro or any of the other outlets that do this, and there are many) per-se performing a scam. I don't think they'll actually get more Baht from the deal as the rates are set by Visa / Mastercard, but you will invariably lose out on the exchange rate if you opt to pay in your own currency. It always happens when I use my UK card in Homepro and they always change to charge in Baht when asked. he Thanks for the reply Crossy. Yes, I don't know why it was moved and not even where. This pertains to a business in Pattaya. Anyway, I showed the difference in exchange rates in my post. I think there was a post earlier about Sizzler doing the same thing. Like I said there was no problem with PIH voiding the transaction and charging me in Thai baht. The cashier at PIH told me her computer was now set up to change in home currency, however if you tell her she will do in baht. My question is why do I have to tell her to charge in Baht as I don't have to tell other businesses to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 why moved? Seems to have been moved back. I understand that you do have a right to pay in Bahts but the perpetrators of this "slight of hand" would prefer you did not know, yes the more naming and shaming may just outlaw this scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 why moved? Seems to have been moved back. I understand that you do have a right to pay in Bahts but the perpetrators of this "slight of hand" would prefer you did not know, yes the more naming and shaming may just outlaw this scam. I agree Basil B that the people who pull this scam should be known here to the expat community. I found out about it from a post about Sizzler doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 We've found this practice in Chiang Mai, also, at CM Ram Hospital, Sports World and IT City (to be specific). Also, I've run into it at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok. Somehow the hospitals seem to be very prone to do this slight-of-hand. We're just careful to make sure we don't sign any credit card slips in USD and politely ask for the charge to be reversed if USD are listed anywhere on a charge slip we're asked to sign. I suspect this practice isn't unique to Thailand, nor is it really a scam. But, it is something to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricklev Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 St. Louis Hospital in Bangkok does it also. Wierd isn't it. The administrators must all have gone to the same business management seminar a couple of years ago. I think its repulsive for hospitals to engage this behavior given the amount of money that may be involved and the physical and emotional trauma the person paying may have endured. Shame on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhooks Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Have found this practice of "Home Country" (A$) charge in a number of places in Thailand over the last few years and it is on the increase. It's a hell of an impost but the best you can do is either refuse to sign the slip and 'attempt' to have them reissue in THB, or pay in cash. Many establishments obviously have the terminal to do the transaction in THB, some will say they cannot process the transaction for an overseas card in THB.....I'm sure that is infact a lie! The Thai banks are the culprits here. I win out about 95% of the time and get the THB slip. I've done comparisons several times and you are much worse off if your transaction is done at the time in your own currency. I've attempted to complain to Visa International and my local card issuer, of course to deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Have found this practice of "Home Country" (A$) charge in a number of places in Thailand over the last few years and it is on the increase. It's a hell of an impost but the best you can do is either refuse to sign the slip and 'attempt' to have them reissue in THB, or pay in cash. Many establishments obviously have the terminal to do the transaction in THB, some will say they cannot process the transaction for an overseas card in THB.....I'm sure that is infact a lie! The Thai banks are the culprits here. I win out about 95% of the time and get the THB slip. I've done comparisons several times and you are much worse off if your transaction is done at the time in your own currency. I've attempted to complain to Visa International and my local card issuer, of course to deaf ears. Maybe best to let merchant know before you buy you want in Thai baht. I don't use my card much outside of Carrefore or Villa Mart which don't do this practice yet. I guess it is starting to be more frequent as I haven't run into this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo9 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Firstly, check your bill always befire signing, second hospitals are no babks and same refers to some hotels. I always insist on a thai invoice THB, never being ripped of through strange exchange rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 To know more about Dynamic Currency Conversion : http://www.creditcardfinder.com.au/problems-with-dynamic-currency-conversio.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) has been a subject on this forum for several years. A good descriptor is the following from "Flyerguide": When you are paying by Visa or Mastercard, some merchants will offer to convert your transaction into your home currency ("'Dynamic Currency Conversion'"). If this is offered, you should decline it, as an exorbitant exchange rate of 7% may be charged [2]. Always check your receipt, and if you see anything involving your home currency in a country that doesn't use that currency, ask the merchant to re-do the transaction in the local currency. If the merchant insists that the conversion is automatic, it is worth arguing or reporting the incident to your credit card company. Visa "requires the merchant to disclose the fee and must provide the consumer with a choice" of getting the bill in the customer's home currency or the local currency. [3] A few years back, when Home Pro tried to charge me in 'dollars,' the clerk claimed she didn't have the option for 'baht.' The manager had to educate her, although probably she had been trained to play dumb. Recently I noticed Home Pro, while still in the DCC business, will now ask "dollars" or "baht?" Rimping Supermarket, once in the DCC business, doesn't appear to have returned to such. In any event, when I hand my plastic to a Thai merchant, it's always accompanied with a "baht please." I don't think they'll actually get more Baht from the deal as the rates are set by Visa / Mastercard, Actually, the merchant and his servicing bank, make out like bandits -- as they indeed do set the conversion rate. In fact, what Visa and MC used to call the "foreign conversion fee" is now called the "foreign transaction fee" since now Visa and MC aren't doing the conversion under DCC. But, they're still collecting their fee; your issuing bank is still getting his slice from the merchant (interchange fee); but now the merchant and his bank are also getting part of the fee action -- off you. Even some ATMs are now in the DCC business, at least with MasterCard (believe it's Siam Commercial Bank's ATMs that have this unattractive feature -- but with the option to refuse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hello again. What a dumb clutz I am. I started this thread a year and a half ago and it just happened to me again at PIH. I had forgotten I already went through this. Anyway they are still up to there old tricks. I didn't catch it until I got home so called my bank in states and they will file a dispute for this. It actually was a 2,694 TB charge and I lost about $4 because of using home currency. After re reading this thread, I feel it was my own fault to let it happen again, so will drop the dispute. However, BEWARE OF PIH. There still up to there old tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk_brijs Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This is not a local scam but is used all over the world with payments made online. Whoever uses Paypal allot is very well aware of that as even they do it. Almost every sale done online proceeds now (with in very small letters though) with the choice of conversion. This due some legal battle visa lost a while back charging the users or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 This transaction was done by me in person at PIH. Not done on line with Paypal etc. This was a local scam. The receipt I have in my possession has the Thai Baht charge and below that The exchange rate yesterday (30.3030 THB to $1 which is where the scam starts and then the Dollar amount). The bank notified me that the receipt they have only showed the dollar amount and not the Thai Baht charge. When I emailed them my copy of the receipt, that is when they offered to file a dispute as they never saw the receipt with a Thai Baht amount showing. Only dollar amount. Like I mentioned in previous post I feel it was my own fault as this also happened a year and a half ago to me and I should have been more aware. Not that it is an excuse in my case but many people who are taking care of business especially in a hospital are under a lot of stress and just want to get home and don't notice the switcharoo until they are home. As far as PayPal, it is the only way I will do online shopping. I do not give my credit card information to anyone. If you buy from Ebay for example you must pay through PayPal account. Also being as Ebay and Paypal are international enterprises there are many different currency's used. The exchange you pay is determined by the Visa or Debt card you are using (through Paypal), not the merchant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I might also add that just this morning I brought some items from Walmart as I planing a trip soon to States, and now Walmart also uses Paypal as one of there forms of payment. Didn't before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiu-Jitsu Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) It's not a scam as such, at least not by the hospital. It's actually to do with the payment processor and the provider of the terminals. It is sold to the Merchant as being a 'service' to their customers(in that they know how much their bill will be in their home currency). In exchange, perhaps, the terminals and processing are provided at slightly better rates. Though the merchants I have asked tend to deny this. So it could be just the local bank and the payment processor/provider of equipment who share the foreign exchange revenue. In the end the customer and the home bank lose out from these transactions. VISA/Mastercard used to lose the 1% (or thereabouts) exchange rate they used to charge, but once they got wind of what the local banks with doing in conjunction with independent payment processors, they slapped a 1% charge on all transactions, other than just cross currency. So don't blame the hospitals, they didn't come up with the idea. Just make sure that they choose the option for Thai baht instead of your home currency. In this case they might have to choose another terminal altogether. Edited August 10, 2012 by Jiu-Jitsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRealDeal Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Its the same the world over not a Thai thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This is not a scam it's a feature of global payments systems and quite often it works to your advantage. If you opt to be billed in a currency other than the native currency of the credit card the issuer will charge you a 2.5% handling fee, you can avoid this by doing the currency conversion at the point of sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 The bank I use Charles Schwab in USA does not charge any Foreign Transaction Fees. This was a debt / credit charge. Also they reimburse all the 150 baht fees that the Thai banks charge at there ATM machines. Also I get the T/T rate on the exchange. Yesterday when this happened I got exchange at 30.3030 when in my home country would have been 31.50. This is why I tend to make purchases here (Villamart, Lotus, etc.) using my home banking card. The vast majority of businesses here do not use this deceptive practice of using a lower exchange rate. However PIH has been doing this for a long time. I just wanted some members to be aware of this at PIH because you will be in for a big surprise if you have a bill from them in the thousands of dollars and by not knowing don't make it know you want to be charged in Thai Baht and not your home currency. Seems to me if you are living here on a credit card that charges 2.5% handling fee, might be advisable to look at other options. Part of the problem also is when you sign the slip, it clearly has the Thai baht amount (and the $ amount) however the copy underneath that is sent to issuing bank does not have the Thai Baht amount on that slip. Anyway this was all brought up to make members aware of some shady deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 One of the main complaints about PIH has always been their cashiers and their lousy attitudes. There was a period during 2010 when they got rid of the entire cashier staff and those kind of mistakes stopped but I noticed last January that the crew was back and up to their old tricks In many cases the cashiers are just not trained in the correct sequence of running foreign credit cards to obtain the "local " currency rate. You will notice this when you shop at the larger chains in non-tourist areas. Home Pro in Pattaya has a sign on the counter where you sign the slip explaining the system to the customer. Home Pro in Chonburi City does not, so you have to tell the cashier to ring up the sale in Thai Baht. The cashiers at Index Center in Chonburi just don't know how to input it correctly yet the ones in Pattaya understand and will do it if requested I don't think how the transaction is run up has any effect on the amount that the store receives from the credit card clearing agency (bank) my guess that this dynamic currency conversion only benefits the clearing entitiy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The bank I use Charles Schwab in USA does not charge any Foreign Transaction Fees. This was a debt / credit charge. Also they reimburse all the 150 baht fees that the Thai banks charge at there ATM machines. Also I get the T/T rate on the exchange. Yesterday when this happened I got exchange at 30.3030 when in my home country would have been 31.50. This is why I tend to make purchases here (Villamart, Lotus, etc.) using my home banking card. The vast majority of businesses here do not use this deceptive practice of using a lower exchange rate. However PIH has been doing this for a long time. I just wanted some members to be aware of this at PIH because you will be in for a big surprise if you have a bill from them in the thousands of dollars and by not knowing don't make it know you want to be charged in Thai Baht and not your home currency. Seems to me if you are living here on a credit card that charges 2.5% handling fee, might be advisable to look at other options. Part of the problem also is when you sign the slip, it clearly has the Thai baht amount (and the $ amount) however the copy underneath that is sent to issuing bank does not have the Thai Baht amount on that slip. Anyway this was all brought up to make members aware of some shady deals. I am aware that Charles Schwab subsidises customer credit cards to a degree but presumably makes that money back elsewhere. Others who have bog standard credit cards such as MasterCard and Visa will pay a range of charges, particularly in the UK but this varies based on the issuer. It is those mere mortals who can potentially benefit from the billing currency determination at the POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surin steve Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Please can someone explain to me where the 150 bt go's to when I use my uk bank debit card in a Thai A T M machine and why is it that if I go into the bank and draw the money over the counter useing the same card not only can I go over my cards limit but I'm not charged the 150 bt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Please can someone explain to me where the 150 bt go's to when I use my uk bank debit card in a Thai A T M machine and why is it that if I go into the bank and draw the money over the counter useing the same card not only can I go over my cards limit but I'm not charged the 150 bt There's two types of ATM charges that can be applied, the one you refer to is called a "foriegn" charge where the fee goes to the ATM owner, basically the owner of the ATM is charging you to use their machine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiu-Jitsu Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The bank I use Charles Schwab in USA does not charge any Foreign Transaction Fees. This was a debt / credit charge. Also they reimburse all the 150 baht fees that the Thai banks charge at there ATM machines. Also I get the T/T rate on the exchange. Yesterday when this happened I got exchange at 30.3030 when in my home country would have been 31.50. This is why I tend to make purchases here (Villamart, Lotus, etc.) using my home banking card. The vast majority of businesses here do not use this deceptive practice of using a lower exchange rate. However PIH has been doing this for a long time. I just wanted some members to be aware of this at PIH because you will be in for a big surprise if you have a bill from them in the thousands of dollars and by not knowing don't make it know you want to be charged in Thai Baht and not your home currency. Seems to me if you are living here on a credit card that charges 2.5% handling fee, might be advisable to look at other options. Part of the problem also is when you sign the slip, it clearly has the Thai baht amount (and the $ amount) however the copy underneath that is sent to issuing bank does not have the Thai Baht amount on that slip. Anyway this was all brought up to make members aware of some shady deals. I am aware that Charles Schwab subsidises customer credit cards to a degree but presumably makes that money back elsewhere. Others who have bog standard credit cards such as MasterCard and Visa will pay a range of charges, particularly in the UK but this varies based on the issuer. It is those mere mortals who can potentially benefit from the billing currency determination at the POS. Sorry, but this is quite wrong. In the UK we have a range of VISA/Mastercard debit and credit cards that don't levy a range of charges'. You really should do your research for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiu-Jitsu Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This is not a scam it's a feature of global payments systems and quite often it works to your advantage. If you opt to be billed in a currency other than the native currency of the credit card the issuer will charge you a 2.5% handling fee, you can avoid this by doing the currency conversion at the point of sale. Are you joking? Do you think the POS DCC charges you 2.5% or less?. Look for a minimum of 3%. Perhaps up to 4%. Always choose local currency, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 A useful guide for posters who don't know and for those who think they know but don't! http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Jiu-Jtsu, This post you highlighted was not quoted by me, it was quoted by Chang-Mai. This thread was started to make people aware of what I feel is a scam by PIH or any other business who is trying this type of service. There are very very few businesses here in Pattaya that do this however PIH is one of them. Also I have a feeling that PIH has an employee working on this thread to try to help justify there wrongful behavior. As far as what card people use and what country they are from, I don't have any idea as my experience is with a card issued from the States and NO ATM charges and NO handling fees (Foreign Transaction Fees) and a favorable rate of exchange compared to cash (T/T). I am sure the UK would also have this type of card but I am not interested in researching this as I am not from the UK. Google is a good friend for this type of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumcr Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 On the day this transaction happened PIH gave me an exchange rate of 30.3030 on my 2,649 THB in USD $87.42. 1/2 hour later I made a cash withdrawal at an Krungsri ATM using my same card. 10,000 THB + 150 THB Fee and MY bank charged me $323.14. Bottom line was 10,150 / $323.14 = 31.41 exchange rate compared to PIH 30.3030 THB. Also remember at end of month I am reimbursed for the 150 THB Fee from MY bank. So........being as I am not a banker could someone explain how having the merchant (POS) be allowed to use whatever exchange he wants benefit me by using local currency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now