jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Sadly, it seems so. Anyway, there's no point people here continually saying that red shirts have no real grievances. They're convinced they do, and that's all that matters in terms of what happens. I'm not sure what the way forward is, but it'll certainly require an election and a compromise from both sides. That's why it's crucial that the moderates stay involved with the red shirts, because if they leave, the hardcore will remain, only even more frustrated than now. And the results could be quite terrible, one way or another. But moderates can lead them away from violence and show them there's still a peaceful, constructive path. Charles Manson, Hitler and the 9/11 hijackers all had "grievances" too but it is more important to think about their true agenda or goals. Something the Reds, along with their grievances, refuse to be honest about. The Reds have also made clear they won't compromise, even if it means hurting their followers & Thailand, as we saw when they refused Abhisit's offer to hold elections before the end of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... if you don't know what the SJ thing is about, then that particular comment was not directed at you. don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Still remember when some red-shirt faction decided to do aerobics in Lumpini park instead of going to Ratchaprasong for fun. Pure coincidence that that same day we had a bomb explosion near BigC killing one, wounding a few others. Don't worry, those were non-red-shirts probably anyway. If you're saying Sombat had something to do with that, or even coordinated with the bomber, why don't you pass your info on to the DSI? I'm sure they'd be very interested. However, he did announce he was going to rally in the park a several days before, and he also had his next few Sundays in parks IIRC. Not to mention he'd previously chosen parks as rally spaces. Not sure what you're implying in your last sentence? I'm sorry for anyone hurt or injured, regardless of their shirt colour. However, I don't think we should smear the peaceful majority by association. But it doesn't matter what I think. The fact is, red shirts aren't going to go away, so it's perhaps better to try to understand rather than demonize. I'm not saying k. Sombat had anything to do with the BigC bomb, not even implying. There are numerous factions of red-shirts. The man arrested could be part of or just sympathetic with any of them. Nowadays we read 'red-shirts' whenever some faction does something (like rallying). It's time we start to be more specific. Maybe uptill the Nonthaburi bomb explosion UDD, after various factions including UDD. Maybe end of May 2010 for UDD only? As for 'non-red-shirt casulties', with many only commemorating 'our red-shirt deaths', 'justice for our deaths', etc. I feel a need sometimes to stress there are more deaths than just red-shirts. When someone proclaims 'free our leaders' I also ask 'what about the hundred of other red-shirts?' Edited January 22, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 begin removed ... I'm not very knowledgeable about all the things you correctly accuse me of ignoring, so I won't offer a potentially ill-informed opinion on them. As for Sah Daeng, and explosions in Nonthaburi and Chiang Mai, I still fail to see how thousands of redshirted protesters who have never been suspected or accused of any illegality by any recognizable authority could have had as direct a role in those actions as you keep implying. The thousands of red-shirts with just causes just get tarred with the same brush as some of the UDD leaders. Unfair maybe, but such is human nature. It's time for the original red-shirts with real grievances to distance themselves clearly from militants and past violence and start in a new grouping. It's not sufficient to say 'I/we didn't know, I'm/we're just part of the red-shirts', doesn't work that way. With 'Ich habe es nicht gewusst' I can only answer 'Ich habe es nicht vergessen' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (BTW --- there used to be a member that also claimed he wasn't pro-red and only spoke out as balance ... ) The issue was he was never balanced at all .... a member ???? If only we were talking one member. More like hundreds. Still, if we talk in terms of actual people, rather than cyber identities, probably not much more than a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 begin removed ... I'm not very knowledgeable about all the things you correctly accuse me of ignoring, so I won't offer a potentially ill-informed opinion on them. As for Sah Daeng, and explosions in Nonthaburi and Chiang Mai, I still fail to see how thousands of redshirted protesters who have never been suspected or accused of any illegality by any recognizable authority could have had as direct a role in those actions as you keep implying. The thousands of red-shirts with just causes just get tarred with the same brush as some of the UDD leaders. Unfair maybe, but such is human nature. It's time for the original red-shirts with real grievances to distance themselves clearly from militants and past violence and start in a new grouping. It's not sufficient to say 'I/we didn't know, I'm/we're just part of the red-shirts', doesn't work that way. With 'Ich habe es nicht gewusst' I can only answer 'Ich habe es nicht vergessen' Other than I didn't get the German or Dutch at the end .... that is exactly what I was saying. "I didn't know" only works before the reds instigated violence ---- and since they started that in 2007 ..... it just doesn't work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (BTW --- there used to be a member that also claimed he wasn't pro-red and only spoke out as balance ... ) The issue was he was never balanced at all .... a member ???? If only we were talking one member. More like hundreds. Still, if we talk in terms of actual people, rather than cyber identities, probably not much more than a dozen. I was thinking that hanuman was accusing someone of being sriracha john ... and john was pretty knowledgeable about things, he's gone. One would really have to be a contemporary poster of John's to know about him. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... if you don't know what the SJ thing is about, then that particular comment was not directed at you. don't worry about it. Public forum ... if you meant it to be personal perhaps a PM would have been better. Then again if you are just continuing to obfuscate and cry "ignorance" when the real history of the reds being violent starting in 2007 ....... well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Other than I didn't get the German or Dutch at the end .... that is exactly what I was saying. "I didn't know" only works before the reds instigated violence ---- and since they started that in 2007 ..... it just doesn't work at all. Sorry about the German: Ich habe es nicht gewusst = I didn't know Ich habe es nicht vergessen = I haven't forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Other than I didn't get the German or Dutch at the end .... that is exactly what I was saying. "I didn't know" only works before the reds instigated violence ---- and since they started that in 2007 ..... it just doesn't work at all. Sorry about the German: Ich habe es nicht gewusst = I didn't know Ich habe es nicht vergessen = I haven't forgotten If you knowingly consort with violent fanatics you absolutely will be painted with the same broad brush Is it fair? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... if you don't know what the SJ thing is about, then that particular comment was not directed at you. don't worry about it. Public forum ... if you meant it to be personal perhaps a PM would have been better. Then again if you are just continuing to obfuscate and cry "ignorance" when the real history of the reds being violent starting in 2007 ....... well. Thanks for your posting advice. Lordy lord, once again the paranoia induced by your prejudice has successfully perpetuated itself by belittling its target further and further. This time, I'm your target and my statement of 'I'm not so knowledgeable about...' was genuinely meant in deference to you and our discussion to avoid my coming out with unsubstantiated claims or guesses, and portraying them as fact. But of course you had to take this as some kind of devious 'tactic' on my part. I can't be bothered carrying on if you keep second-guessing what I'm saying. I'm sure you'll find someone else to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Again ... absolutely fine with me You, of course, know that I will call you on what appears to be deliberate obfuscation. You are under no obligation to reply but I will point that out too. BTW --- I think ALL the violence by the reds has been covered in the last 2 weeks on TVF I know that the 2007 violence was. I don't know that the Sept 1/2 2008 attack by the reds on the PAD at Govt house was, but it instigated Samak's SoE so it should be common knowledge for anyone posting about the reds. The Chiang Mai violence has been covered. The Violence of 2009 both in BKK and at the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya have been brought up .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Again ... absolutely fine with me You, of course, know that I will call you on what appears to be deliberate obfuscation. You are under no obligation to reply but I will point that out too. BTW --- I think ALL the violence by the reds has been covered in the last 2 weeks on TVF I know that the 2007 violence was. I don't know that the Sept 1/2 2008 attack by the reds on the PAD at Govt house was, but it instigated Samak's SoE so it should be common knowledge for anyone posting about the reds. The Chiang Mai violence has been covered. The Violence of 2009 both in BKK and at the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya have been brought up .... hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 hmmm. Spot on! Best contribution to a meaningful political discussion since "SJ"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Sorry about the German: Ich habe es nicht gewusst = I didn't know Ich habe es nicht vergessen = I haven't forgotten German - Dutch - English: Ich habe es nicht gewusst - Ik heb het niet geweten - I didn't know (it) Ich habe es nicht vergessen - Ik heb het niet vergeten - I haven't forgotten (it) Probably the pedantic Dutch uncle in me, sorry. Edited January 22, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Sorry about the German: Ich habe es nicht gewusst = I didn't know Ich habe es nicht vergessen = I haven't forgotten German - Dutch - English: Ich habe es nicht gewusst - Ik heb het niet geweten - I didn't know (it) Ich habe es nicht vergessen - Ik heb het niet vergeten - I haven't forgotten (it) Probably the pedantic Dutch uncle in me, sorry. LOL ... Careful TVF is English Only (except for the Thai Language sub-forum!) Some red is sure to whine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... I'm always ready to help when I can.Here's a quote from one of your messages on your profile page which might jog your memory. "sriracha john 2006-12-11 HEY!!! Get back here and post... We all miss your input... and hope all is well on your end." Please don't hesitate to let me know if I can help further with memory failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) works for me ... and you never answered the "SJ" question .. then again ... I'm always ready to help when I can.Here's a quote from one of your messages on your profile page which might jog your memory. "sriracha john 2006-12-11 HEY!!! Get back here and post... We all miss your input... and hope all is well on your end." Please don't hesitate to let me know if I can help further with memory failure. No memory failure on my part if you read the thread .... the question was WHO was he accusing? But you did certainly fail to acknowledge earlier posts that pointed out it was the REDS that escalated the violence in April and May of 2010 ... Then again that is typical. edit ---- Nice to know you are checking my profile. Do you think I should delete that comment? Personally, I thought it was flattering to be missed whilst I was ill. Looking at your profile is a bit revealing as well Edited January 22, 2011 by jdinasia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) hmmm. Spot on! Best contribution to a meaningful political discussion since "SJ"! Really, your sarcastic ad hominem attacks on me do your cause as much good as your prejudiced assumptions. P.S. We can carry on with this just as long as you like. It has been shown before that anti-red obsessives apparently care for the enjoyment of others just about as much as those they accuse of such selfishness themselves. Surely being a public forum, if you've got a personal message for me it is best sent as a PM. I learned that today. Edited January 22, 2011 by hanuman1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 hmmm. Spot on! Best contribution to a meaningful political discussion since "SJ"! Really, your sarcastic ad hominem attacks on me do your cause as much good as your prejudiced assumptions. P.S. We can carry on with this just as long as you like. It has been shown before that anti-red obsessives apparently care for the enjoyment of others just about as much as those they accuse of such selfishness themselves. Surely being a public forum, if you've got a personal message for me it is best sent as a PM. I learned that today. Nothing "ad hominem" about my response. (It was sarcastic!) I replied directly to the post made and said NOTHING about you or you character. "Anti-red obsessives" however is actually an ad hominem attack since it doesn't reply to what was posted, but instead suggest characteristics of the person making the post. Replying to a public post with a public post is proper netiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 hmmm. Spot on! Best contribution to a meaningful political discussion since "SJ"! Really, your sarcastic ad hominem attacks on me do your cause as much good as your prejudiced assumptions. P.S. We can carry on with this just as long as you like. It has been shown before that anti-red obsessives apparently care for the enjoyment of others just about as much as those they accuse of such selfishness themselves. Surely being a public forum, if you've got a personal message for me it is best sent as a PM. I learned that today. Nothing "ad hominem" about my response. (It was sarcastic!) I replied directly to the post made and said NOTHING about you or you character. "Anti-red obsessives" however is actually an ad hominem attack since it doesn't reply to what was posted, but instead suggest characteristics of the person making the post. Replying to a public post with a public post is proper netiquette. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes. If that "yes" is agreement with my post; who were you referring to with "SJ" that you posted publicly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes. If that "yes" is agreement with my post; who were you referring to with "SJ" that you posted publicly? Think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes. If that "yes" is agreement with my post; who were you referring to with "SJ" that you posted publicly? Think. Hmmmm, Apparently what you posted earlier was not accurate/true/lacked veracity. That it is midnight in Thailand might be a reason. That does not say much, however about your contribution to the thread with one word responses that not only do not answer direct questions, but actually tend to obfuscate things further. I'll wait until tmw before responding to you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanuman1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes. If that "yes" is agreement with my post; who were you referring to with "SJ" that you posted publicly? Think. Hmmmm, Apparently what you posted earlier was not accurate/true/lacked veracity. That it is midnight in Thailand might be a reason. That does not say much, however about your contribution to the thread with one word responses that not only do not answer direct questions, but actually tend to obfuscate things further. I'll wait until tmw before responding to you again Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Meanwhile, a Shinawatra is opening ceremonies for the Red Shirts... Followed by a Pheu Thai Party MP... PTP = Red Shirts = Thaksin... Northeastern red shirts meet leaders in Khon Kaen Red shirts from Northeastern provinces gathered in Khon Kaen yesterday for a function to introduce all leaders of the movement in the region. Khon Kaen was chosen by the red-shirt leadership in Bangkok because it was viewed as the heart of the movement in the Northeast, said Noppadon Sidathan, coordinator of the Democracy Lovers from 40 Districts of Six Northeastern Provinces. The function began at about 3pm and was scheduled to end at midnight. The opening ceremony was presided over by former Army Chief General Chaisit Shinawatra, a cousin of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Jatuporn Prompan, a red-shirt leader and MP from the opposition Pheu Thai Party, was to address the gathering. Noppadon said the function was also intended as the first get-together of the year for red shirts in the Northeast. A red-shirt source in Khon Kaen yesterday complained that some "phony red shirts" had made profits from recent fund-raising events there and in other Northeastern provinces. "It's unclear if the donations have been used up. People have doubts about the management of funds. Many people have been involved in a dispute over management of the money," the source said. Meanwhile, Khon Kaen Police Chief Major-General Nikom Inchoedchai said three police units had been sent to the site of the red-shirt gathering to keep order. He did not expect any serious incidents during the event, although he warned of legal action against any troublemakers. -- The Nation 2011-01-22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Phony red shirts? Say it isn't so! Can anyone refresh my memory about what the reds have done that could be considered violent/destructive in KK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Phony red shirts? Say it isn't so! Can anyone refresh my memory about what the reds have done that could be considered violent/destructive in KK? It was part of the Reds coordinated attacks around the country. They torched the Provincial Hall: They also torched the NBT Television Station in Khon Kaen: Edited January 22, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Was it in KK that they interfered with the rail service or was that Korat, Nakhon Ratchasima? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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