Red Shirts Rally In Bangkok

[jdinasia]

Anti-government "red shirt" protesters shout and hold banners during a rally near the Democracy monument, the site of bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok January 23, 2011. Thousands of anti-government activists gathered in Bangkok on Sunday to demand the release of their leaders who were detained since the May 2010 crackdown.

REUTERS.

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

Propaganda on the part of the reds, regarding the signs in English. During the May insurrectionist rally in bkk they had a sign up saying Democracy and one saying We are not terrorists. Right above the stage as they were calling out in Thai to burn down government buildings. Why? The reporters shoot the imagery and it sticks, even the few that reported on the violent hate speech fro the stage did it with those lies as a backdrop. We have moved from "The UN is not my father" to having the reds plead with the UN about internal/domestic issues .... amazing aint it?

[KKvampire]

this is getting expensive for the corrupt politicians to finance, all these so called poor, principled from the north and central Thailand. Unprincipled paid lackies

[bulmercke]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

No one got paid? That just doesn't match what is heard regularly so I assume that we have to conclude that Bulmercke went and spoke to 27,000 people today AND believed what he was told by each of them!

I don't doubt there are some people there that are not paid. I also do not doubt that there are some people there that are paid.

Fast response time jdinasia!

This was not an over-night rally so there would have been no need for any sort of expenses to be paid to the protesters. (Expenses incidentally and not wages - should there still remain some confusion.)

[Buchholz]

So today was the UDD faction of the red-shirts protesting. It's interesting that people still seems to interchange red-shirts and UDD at leisure

excerpts from:

Anti-government rally gridlocks central Bangkok

Deutsche Presse-Agentur (DPA) - January 23, 2011

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), also known as the red shirts for their emblematic protest colours, staged a 69-day demonstration in the capital last year in a effort to topple the government of Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

The red shirts are a street politics movement allied to the Puea Thai opposition party whose de facto leader is fugitive former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

[bulmercke]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

sometimes local red skirts leaders pay between 300 and 1000 Baht.

But mostly of them from outside Bangkok. Last year the local leader from here (Chiang Mai) want rent my minibus for 4000 Baht and for each

Thai another 1500 Baht per day.

But all must give their ID-Card to the leader first. Many red skirts later come home without ID-Card, because the leave the rally before for violence.

Now, nobody go to BKK from our district, because the not offer money for visit the rally.

chinthai - I believe you are correct. But this isn't to say that these folks were there for purely financial reasons. Support was given to fund their stay in BKK and that of their dependents remaining up-country. True to the Red-Shirt principles.

[jdinasia]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

No one got paid? That just doesn't match what is heard regularly so I assume that we have to conclude that Bulmercke went and spoke to 27,000 people today AND believed what he was told by each of them!

I don't doubt there are some people there that are not paid. I also do not doubt that there are some people there that are paid.

Fast response time jdinasia!

This was not an over-night rally so there would have been no need for any sort of expenses to be paid to the protesters. (Expenses incidentally and not wages - should there still remain some confusion.)

fast?

You say tomato and I say tomahto ... paid is paid. It is funny to see you try and cover it with a euphemism though! I am proud of you for staunchly supporting the reds not being paid even when you then turn around and talk about cash dispersments! I have no doubt at all in my mind, based from personal observation and way too much listening to the reds in Chiang Mai (can hear their stage from where I lived--- probably can where I moved to too ) that payment is widespread and common. That it exceeds what most of them would earn at work for a day, and that organizers are paid extra.

[bulmercke]

Anti-government "red shirt" protesters shout and hold banners during a rally near the Democracy monument, the site of bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok January 23, 2011. Thousands of anti-government activists gathered in Bangkok on Sunday to demand the release of their leaders who were detained since the May 2010 crackdown.

REUTERS.

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

No point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt. And signs in English that will obviously be picked up by some international media is surely a good start.

[Buchholz]

Anti-government "red shirt" protesters shout and hold banners during a rally near the Democracy monument, the site of bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok January 23, 2011. Thousands of anti-government activists gathered in Bangkok on Sunday to demand the release of their leaders who were detained since the May 2010 crackdown.

REUTERS.

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

No point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt. And signs in English that will obviously be picked up by some international media is surely a good start.

especially those calling for a Red People Revolution.

[bulmercke]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

No one got paid? That just doesn't match what is heard regularly so I assume that we have to conclude that Bulmercke went and spoke to 27,000 people today AND believed what he was told by each of them!

I don't doubt there are some people there that are not paid. I also do not doubt that there are some people there that are paid.

Fast response time jdinasia!

This was not an over-night rally so there would have been no need for any sort of expenses to be paid to the protesters. (Expenses incidentally and not wages - should there still remain some confusion.)

fast?

You say tomato and I say tomahto ... paid is paid. It is funny to see you try and cover it with a euphemism though! I am proud of you for staunchly supporting the reds not being paid even when you then turn around and talk about cash dispersments! I have no doubt at all in my mind, based from personal observation and way too much listening to the reds in Chiang Mai (can hear their stage from where I lived--- probably can where I moved to too ) that payment is widespread and common. That it exceeds what most of them would earn at work for a day, and that organizers are paid extra.

Yes - they were paid - well some of them last year who were encamped in BKK for weeks on end. There doesn't seem to be any disagreement over this. I say they're paid expenses and you seem to favour the fact that these payments are wages - pure and simple - paid to the "uninformed and politically ignorant masses" of Issan. I don't dispute your personal observations in Chiang Mai - but folks have to survive and dependents have to be looked after and bills paid. The recipients of these funds were without exception Red-Shirts - through and through - who believed in the ideology and objectives of the movement and still do.

[bulmercke]

Anti-government "red shirt" protesters shout and hold banners during a rally near the Democracy monument, the site of bloody clashes with security forces, in Bangkok January 23, 2011. Thousands of anti-government activists gathered in Bangkok on Sunday to demand the release of their leaders who were detained since the May 2010 crackdown.

REUTERS.

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

No point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt. And signs in English that will obviously be picked up by some international media is surely a good start.

especially those calling for a Red People Revolution.

40,000 to 50,000 Red-Shirts again out on the streets today.

You wouldn't be getting nervous - would you - Buchholz?

[jdinasia]

Bulmerke ----

Chiang Mai is not in Isaan. That the payments were more than they would have made at home is indicative of HAVING to pay them. Your ideas about the motivation of the people that sat in and listened to hate and violence --- interspersed with music--- is speculative at best.

"without exception" -- no way that is accurate.

[jdinasia]

40,000 to 50,000 Red-Shirts again out on the streets today.

You wouldn't be getting nervous - would you - Buchholz?

hmmm doubling estimates that I read of 27k?

No need to get nervous about a paid mob. I will get nervous the next time they set up an encampment though since they will be trying to force blood on the streets again!

[rixalex]

Yes - they were paid - well some of them last year who were encamped in BKK for weeks on end. There doesn't seem to be any disagreement over this. I say they're paid expenses and you seem to favour the fact that these payments are wages - pure and simple - paid to the "uninformed and politically ignorant masses" of Issan. I don't dispute your personal observations in Chiang Mai - but folks have to survive and dependents have to be looked after and bills paid. The recipients of these funds were without exception Red-Shirts - through and through - who believed in the ideology and objectives of the movement and still do.

Believe in the ideology but not sufficiently to pay out of their own pockets? Oh that's right, they couldn't afford to. TVs, mobile phones, cigarettes, beer - oh yes, money can invariably be found for these things.

Money for standing up for something you passionately and truly believe in. Nah, fraid not.

[MaiChai]

I must admit the photo of the guy without a shirt on looks like a photo a photo journalist would like to capture, but to me it looks like a nutter who you would not want to meet down a dark Bangkok soi! To me it makes the point that these demonstrations attract nutters and those who could not give you a reasoned argument as to why the red shirt movement represents the majority of Thais. Most Thais I have talked to regard the reds as an extremist organisation.

[jayjay0]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

sometimes local red skirts leaders pay between 300 and 1000 Baht.

But mostly of them from outside Bangkok. Last year the local leader from here (Chiang Mai) want rent my minibus for 4000 Baht and for each

Thai another 1500 Baht per day.

But all must give their ID-Card to the leader first. Many red skirts later come home without ID-Card, because the leave the rally before for violence.

Now, nobody go to BKK from our district, because the not offer money for visit the rally.

chinthai - I believe you are correct. But this isn't to say that these folks were there for purely financial reasons. Support was given to fund their stay in BKK and that of their dependents remaining up-country. True to the Red-Shirt principles.

Just what were the principals they displayed in there spring so called peace demonstration. Were you in a coma or some thing.

I take it your are talking about freedom to invade hospitals and disrupt the lives of thousands of honest hard working citizens. Try to burn Bangkok down shoot rockets into transit stations. Then when you are finally stopped you leave the area like a pig sty and let the people you oppressed to clean up behind you.

The working girls in Pattaya have more principals than you.

You red shirts make me sick. Partly because I believed in you for a week and mostly because you carry on like you were the oppressed. You make no effort to apologize because you are so unthinking of any one but yourselfs you think it is all right to carry on like you did. In your mind you are the only ones who have rites.

I suppose you are building up a fund to pay the voters for there expenses when they go to the polls.

[rubl]

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

No point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt. And signs in English that will obviously be picked up by some international media is surely a good start.

True, true. Different target group, different type of propaganda necessary.

Maybe time to read this article again

In retrospect, red shirt calls for free speech and unfettered television access were as deceptive as the big red banner behind their stage at Ratchaprasong, which proclaimed in English for all the world to see:

PEACEFUL PROTESTERS

NOT TERRORISTS

That unforgettable banner, background to a vitriolic karaoke show and some unforgettable hate-laden banter held in the middle of a barricaded intersection, points to an image problem that was never really resolved. Were the reds peaceful and democratic at heart, betrayed by a militant fringe, or was violence and intimidation part of the overall red program from the start?

http://jinpeili.blogspot.com/2010/05/in-media-reds.html

Edited January 23, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

Interesting point is that many protest signs are in English, a language not really understood by many Thais. This suggests that most of those signs are only put up to convey a certain image towards foreigner and the world outside Thailand. Does that mean we finally count for something apart from being aliens ?

No point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt. And signs in English that will obviously be picked up by some international media is surely a good start.

especially those calling for a Red People Revolution.

40,000 to 50,000 Red-Shirts again out on the streets today.

You wouldn't be getting nervous - would you - Buchholz?

Why not just say there were a 1,000,000 out there on the streets today?

Am I personally nervous? No. We have very good security in our area:

Edited January 23, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Anti-riot squads prepared

Follow this link:

Edited January 24, 2011 by webfact
runs as separate topic

[tpthai2]

CNN reporting 37,000. I have heard them report this figure three times now. They also attribute this figure to a Thai Police estimate.

Edited January 23, 2011 by tpthai2

[phetaroi]

Yes - they were paid - well some of them last year who were encamped in BKK for weeks on end. There doesn't seem to be any disagreement over this. I say they're paid expenses and you seem to favour the fact that these payments are wages - pure and simple - paid to the "uninformed and politically ignorant masses" of Issan. I don't dispute your personal observations in Chiang Mai - but folks have to survive and dependents have to be looked after and bills paid. The recipients of these funds were without exception Red-Shirts - through and through - who believed in the ideology and objectives of the movement and still do.

Here's where I disagree with you. It's not just for their expenses, because "back home", when they (and others) are paid to vote a certain way, there are no expenses. They're being paid to do something.

Additionally, I talked to a few Red Shirts, and trust me, at least the ones I talked to could express any ideology or objectives, other than to say that things are not fair to people in the provinces. What ideology do you think they stand for? Not democracy, because most will talk about things that have nothing to do with democracy when they recite the word. In fact, their version of "democracy" is only when their side wins.

They are unhappy, relatively poor people who have gotten mad.

[Buchholz]

Meanwhile, UDD leaders, led by acting chairwoman Thida Thavornseth and Jatupron Prompan met with Hans-Peter Kaul, deputy chief of the International Criminal Court (ICC), at a hotel in Bangkok.

The media was not allowed to cover the meeting, but Mrs Thida told journalists afterward that the talks focused on assisting people who are abused on human rights and on other issues.

As per the other thread, hopefully the honorable Mr. Kaul explained to Thida...

A very revealing interview in the other paper today with ICC Vice-President Hans-Peter Kaul, who is in Bangkok, and who provides a multitude of reasons why this:

Plea To International Criminal Court: Red Shirts Face Bumpy Road

is actually at the end of a dead end road.

Nothing will come of it is his bottom-line.

The honorable Mr. Kaul did explain to Thida at their meeting that the ICC is a dead-end road as far as the Red Shirts are concerned according to a report in the other paper this morning.

An unfazed Thida nevertheless said they would "plea" with "other international agencies."

Additionally, in an apparent realization that the bi-monthly rallies were unsustainable, Thida also said they would cut back to just monthly rallies.

[webfact]

Red Shirts end Bangkok rally peacefully

BANGKOK, Jan 24 -- Thousands of anti government 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) activists who rallied at the Democracy Monument on Sunday ended their demonstration peacefully and scheduled Feb 13 as the date for their next rally in Bangkok.

The demonstrators occupied Rajdamnoen Road from Phan Fah Bridge to the Sanam Luang ceremonial ground while the main rally stage was erected at the monument itself. Small auxiliary assembly points were scattered throughout the area, and police were deployed to provide security and maintain order.

The rally started at Ratchaprasong intersection and later moved to Democracy Monument at around 3pm. The Ratchaprasong area was the UDD main protest site during April and May last year before the clashes between protesters and security forces which led to the UDD leaders surrender to police, followed by being jailed on terrorism charges.

Sunday's demonstrators lit red candles in commemoration of the Red Shirt protesters killed during the street violence in April and May before dispersing at around midnight.

Red Shirt co-leader and Opposition MP Jatuporn Prompan said the UDD would adjust their strategy and protest only once a month in the future to avoid making trouble for the public.

The next demonstration would be held on Feb 13 and their objectives will continue as before, that is demanding the release of Red Shirt leaders who were detained on terrorism charges and the reinstatement of the 1997 Constitution. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-01-24

[Ricardo]

The honorable Mr. Kaul did explain to Thida at their meeting that the ICC is a dead-end road as far as the Red Shirts are concerned according to a report in the other paper this morning.

An unfazed Thida nevertheless said they would "plea" with "other international agencies."

Additionally, in an apparent realization that the bi-monthly rallies were unsustainable, Thida also said they would cut back to just monthly rallies.

Excellent news for RA, Kerching !, hope that the UDD can continue to fund 'their' pleas, despite Khun Thida's post-Thaksin-era stance.

Perhaps the red-movement would be better-advised to save their cash, in preparation for the up-coming elections, where the opinions of the Thai-electorate can be 'influenced' more-cheaply @ 200B-500B per-vote, and where the results might have some relevance to the cause of the poor, or is this more about someone-else's 'face' being saved ?

[Insight]

Yes - they were paid - well some of them last year who were encamped in BKK for weeks on end. There doesn't seem to be any disagreement over this. I say they're paid expenses and you seem to favour the fact that these payments are wages - pure and simple - paid to the "uninformed and politically ignorant masses" of Issan. I don't dispute your personal observations in Chiang Mai - but folks have to survive and dependents have to be looked after and bills paid. The recipients of these funds were without exception Red-Shirts - through and through - who believed in the ideology and objectives of the movement and still do.

Believe in the ideology but not sufficiently to pay out of their own pockets? Oh that's right, they couldn't afford to. TVs, mobile phones, cigarettes, beer - oh yes, money can invariably be found for these things.

Money for standing up for something you passionately and truly believe in. Nah, fraid not.

The real question is if they were compensated more than their usual day's salary for attending, whatever that may be. If so, it really does blow the "personal sacrifice" element of attending such rallies out the water.

[lothda]

You just have to love how the foreign press distorts what's going on here. From Welt Online:

Tausende Rothemden demonstrieren in Bangkok

Bangkok (dpa) - In Bangkok haben rund 30 000 Regierungsgegner demonstriert und die thailändische Hauptstadt teilweise lahmgelegt. Die sogenannten Rothemden sammelten sich in der Innenstadt und erinnerten an das gewaltsame Ende ihrer wochenlangen Protestaktion am 19. Mai 2010. Sie verlangten die Freilassung ihrer damals festgenommenen Anführer. Die Bewegung «Vereinte Front für Demokratie und gegen Diktatur» steht dem 2006 gestürzten Ex-Premierminister Thaksin Shinawatra nahe.

erschienen am 23.01.2011 um 11:28 Uhr

Not being a native German speaker, and if you are please correct me if I'm wrong, but what's it's saying loosely is that around 30,000 government opposition demonstrators crippled the Thai capitol today. The so-called Redshirts grouped in the capital today and were reminiscent of the violent end of their week-long protest [oh, it was only for a week???] on 19 May 2010. ...and so on. So did today's rally remind you of the Redshirt's "violent ending"? Come on Die Welt, this is sensational and inaccurate journalism at its worst.

Please forgive me if I didn't get that accurately, German speakers!

http://appl.welt.de/newsticker2/?module=dpa&id=28312500&utm_source=Justnews&utm_medium=facebook

Here's the translation for you:

Thousands of redshirts demonstrate in Bangkok

Bangkok (dpa) - Around 30,000 anti-government protesters demonstrated in Bangkok and partially crippled the Thai capital. The so-called redshirts gathered downtown and remembered the violent end of their weeks-long protest on 19 May 2010. They demanded the release of their leaders who were arrested at that time. The movement "United Front for Democracy and against Dictatorship" is close to ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who was disposed in 2006.

Not quite what you thought it said. That said, Die Welt is not a newspaper known for their impartial reporting.

[gemini81]

scorecard said: "On a different slant, One of the members of my Thai family (not a red supporter)was just talking to a friend, the gossip is that the attendance money for today is 1,000Baht."

You've got to laugh. No one got paid anything. More black propaganda I'm afraid.

I find that hard to believe, where are the poor penniless Isaan farmers and other such characters gonna cough up enough financial support to come and protest every few weekends. It's coming from somewhere, and its not the money tree in their backyard.

[ianbaggie]

With regards to compensation for attending these rallies - I can clear up the details once and for all

1) The red shirts get 1000 baht a day - i have film on my own video camera of them getting their handouts yesterday.

2) They are promised a sort of profit share scheme based on looting and stolen money-

a] When Thaksin comes back.

b} The next time they burn down a shopping center. This is of course dependent on them not having their loot removed by non-watermellon police as they board the free bus paid for by tax payers home!!.

If theyd use the stolen money to buy a new cow for the farm in Issan I wouldnt mind so much - but it just means they can have another week of ignoring the rice and getting drunk on Thai whisky when they get back to the village!!

Its a hard life being a red shirt!!

Edited January 24, 2011 by ianbaggie

[rixalex]

The real question is if they were compensated more than their usual day's salary for attending, whatever that may be. If so, it really does blow the "personal sacrifice" element of attending such rallies out the water.

In the course of history, around the world, there have been movements consisting of the poor and downtrodden classes who have rallied, protested and gathered, and without being reimbursed anything, whether it be their daily wages, traveling expenses or whatever. That's because they weren't fighting someone else's battle, they were fighting for themselves and because they truly believed in what they were standing up for.

To suggest that the red shirts are at a level of hardship and poverty that is so extreme that it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to act in this manner is i think being a little generous. The red shirts could rally without being paid anything if they wanted to. They don't and they wouldn't.

[SomTumTiger]

With regards to compensation for attending these rallies - I can clear up the details once and for all

1) The red shirts get 1000 baht a day - i have film on my own video camera of them getting their handouts yesterday.

2) They are promised a sort of profit share scheme based on looting and stolen money-

a] When Thaksin comes back.

b} The next time they burn down a shopping center. This is of course dependent on them not having their loot removed by non-watermellon police as they board the free bus paid for by tax payers home!!.

If theyd use the stolen money to buy a new cow for the farm in Issan I wouldnt mind so much - but it just means they can have another week of ignoring the rice and getting drunk on Thai whisky when they get back to the village!!

Its a hard life being a red shirt!!

That sounds about right.

[Pi Sek]

With regards to compensation for attending these rallies - I can clear up the details once and for all

1) The red shirts get 1000 baht a day - i have film on my own video camera of them getting their handouts yesterday.

2) They are promised a sort of profit share scheme based on looting and stolen money-

a] When Thaksin comes back.

b} The next time they burn down a shopping center. This is of course dependent on them not having their loot removed by non-watermellon police as they board the free bus paid for by tax payers home!!.

If theyd use the stolen money to buy a new cow for the farm in Issan I wouldnt mind so much - but it just means they can have another week of ignoring the rice and getting drunk on Thai whisky when they get back to the village!!

Its a hard life being a red shirt!!

Hi Ian You're opening a can of worms when you say that you have video footage of Reds receiving money unless you post that video clip.

From your PM to me last year, I remember you have very good cause to be very angry at the reds... and your posting usually shows it! So, do yourself a favour and post the video

Of course, some will accept it as irrefutable evidence that Thaksin is directly paying the red buffaloes and others will see it as propaganda from Darth Prem and his evil empire... but at least you'll have done your bit.