Phuket Revokes Russian Tour Companies Licenses

[webfact]

Russian tour companies' licenses revoked

By The Nation

PHUKET - Following complaints by local business people about tour companies in Phuket using Russians as tour guides, the Phuket Bureau of Tourism and Guide Registration revoked six companies' licenses and suspended the licenses of two more.

Registrar Piyasuda Sukcharoen said yesterday that the tour guide profession in Thailand was prohibited to foreigners and the license revocation made it easier for tourist police to arrest those who were breaking the law.

The revoking of the licenses meant the companies and their board members were banned from the tour business for five years, she said.

The two companies under suspension confessed to hiring Russian guides and using them to sell tour packages. They have promised to change and stop using foreigners to sell tour packages, she said.

Piyasuda said Thailand had about 10 Thai tour guides who spoke Russian well. There were several Russian companies that were registered with the central authority and had branches in Phuket. If they were found to be breaking the law, they would receive a license suspension.

-- The Nation 2011-01-27

[FarangBuddha]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guides for the entire country...what a cock-up. At least the TAT director didn't tell us again that there is no evidence of prostitution in Pattaya

[geriatrickid]

How did Registrar Piyasuda determine that 10 Thai tour guides spoke Russian well? Did ask any of the tourists if they understood these guides? Did these tour guides pass a fluency exam? How are 10 tour guides expected to service the large Russian tourist market?

[Payboy]

Piyasuda said Thailand had about 10 Thai tour guides who spoke Russian well.

Wonder if there's such a thing as pidgin Russian.

[manarak]

Easy - hire a Thai guide who speaks only Thai as a guide and a Thai to Russian "translator".

Edited January 27, 2011 by manarak

[apollo13]

Yet another example of Thai bureaucratic wisdom that makes Thailand the laughing stock of S.E. Asia. I feel sorry for Abhisit, having to deal with the cronies and their silly ideas.

[londonthai]

as for the previous tread on the russian companies in phuket - they were offering cheaper tours than their thai counterparts and that's the reason they were suspended.

economic crisis hit tourist industry hard (as a not essential service), so shutting down competition by any means was thai answer.

tourists will have to pay now more (on top of thai guides they will have to employ russian translators or pay higher bribes to the authorities), so less tours will be sold

[Misterwhisper]

QUOTE: "Piyasuda said Thailand had about 10 Thai tour guides who spoke Russian well."

Hm, "about" in my understanding means "approximatelY", i.e. there could be only 8 Russian-speaking Thai tour guides, or there could be 12.

How many Russian tourists vivited Thailand last year? "About" 380,000, I think. Well, probably not all of them required a tour guide. But let's say it was only 10%, then these "about 10" local tour guides would be burdened with 3,800 tourists each over the course of one year. Quite a workload per guide.

Furthermore, "about 10" Russian-speaking tour guides to cover hundreds, if not thousands, of tourist attractions and historical sites all spread out over a country roughly the size of France? Oh my, really looks like the Russian tourist sector is completely saturated in terms of tour guide density.

I once had the doubtful pleasure of joining a visiting couple from Germany on a tour of the ancient city of Sukhothai, which they had booked. The group was led by a local, supposedly "German-speaking" tour guide. Her pronunciation was so dismal, her sentence structure so utterly garbled that my visitors and I (also a native German speaker) decided to split from the group and I gave my guests a tour of the old city myself. Luckily I wasn't caught, otherwise I probably would have been arrested and fined as an "illegal tour guide".

I hail from the southern German city of Ulm. It's not particularly large ("about" 150,000 inhabitants), but looks back at a history of well over 1,000 years. A plethora of historical monuments dot the city and there is a tourism office that can provide guides in every imaginable language. Basically all of them are native speakers (i.e. nationals) of their respective countries. Thai tour groups get a Thai tour guide. Ukrainians and Russians get a Russian. Visitors from Taiwan or mainland China get a Chinese. And so forth.

My point is: All of these native guides are licensed and are permitted to work legally. It is important to have a tour guide who can parlay in your own language. If not, or if the guide's foreign language ability is utterly dismal, visitors will lose out on a lot of information. Moreover, these guides will not lead their groups into dubious shops where they coax their guests into buying stuff at grossly inflated prices so they can pocket handsome commissions from the shop operators. THAT and ONLY THAT, I am afraid, is THE SOLE OBJECTIVE of a good many local tour guides in Thailand, and NOT to furnish their groups with interesting knowledge abut the culture and history of the kingdom that they can take back home with them.

[kuffki]

Considering the number of Russian tourists and mind you 99% do not speak any English, who and what tour guides does Thailand propose to use to show them around?

If they happy to take Russian Money, what is the problem with providing the service?

I speak about 95% Russian, and all Thai's i met claiming to speak Russian do not even speak 5% of the language.

I can just imagine if i was a tour guide in OZ for Thai tourists speaking Thai-i have a feeling not only they will not understand anything, but will be demanding their money back and mind you i speak about 10% of the language.

[007]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guides for the entire country...what a cock-up. At least the TAT director didn't tell us again that there is no evidence of prostitution in Pattaya

I remember reading, not long ago, about the same issue regarding Korean tour guides. So, what will the Thais do now; educate Thai tour guides in Russian, Korean, etc., or will they have to write off both target groups as tourism income earners?

[007]

Considering the number of Russian tourists and mind you 99% do not speak any English, who and what tour guides does Thailand propose to use to show them around?

Perhaps gestures and pidgin English..

"Heyyyy you-you-you, fallang Rus--sia, Pree-wit. Kaa paasievash?

[Payboy]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guides for the entire country...what a cock-up. At least the TAT director didn't tell us again that there is no evidence of prostitution in Pattaya

I remember reading, not long ago, about the same issue regarding Korean tour guides. So, what will the Thais do now; educate Thai tour guides in Russian, Korean, etc., or will they have to write off both target groups as tourism income earners?

Why dont these bloody tourists learn Thai before they decide to come here.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Payboy

[007]

Why dont these bloody tourists learn Thai before they decide to come here.

Or Latin if they want to visit the Vatican..

And even if they learnt the language, and then travelled to Pattaya or Patong, where they all just speak Esarn Lao..

Edited January 27, 2011 by 007

[Just1Voice]

The Thai concept of "speaking fluidly" consists of being able to say "hello", "good bye" and "oh my god" in a native language. I can't even begin to count the number of people with university degrees in English, including those with Master's, who can't even carry on a simple conversation, and you can forget about them being able to write anything which even comes close to making sense. A year ago I took a Thai class (level 1) at the YMCA in Chiang Mai. When I signed up, I was told I would be in a class with only 5 other people, all over 45, and have one of their best teachers as our instructor. From Day One we had to constantly ask her to slow down and speak more clearly due to the fact that her English was so bad that we couldn't understand 80% of what she said. If she was one of their "best", I'd hate to see just their "average" teacher.

[thurien]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guide...

just wondering what the Russians need a guide for at all?

Their most frequented places consist of 7/11s (and the adjoining side walk for having a stylish dinner...) plus the doll houses in Patty plus baht buses plus the massage girls on the beach -- no guide needed for that

Edited January 27, 2011 by thurien

[w11guy]

The Thai concept of "speaking fluidly" consists of being able to say "hello", "good bye" and "oh my god" in a native language. I can't even begin to count the number of people with university degrees in English, including those with Master's, who can't even carry on a simple conversation, and you can forget about them being able to write anything which even comes close to making sense. A year ago I took a Thai class (level 1) at the YMCA in Chiang Mai. When I signed up, I was told I would be in a class with only 5 other people, all over 45, and have one of their best teachers as our instructor. From Day One we had to constantly ask her to slow down and speak more clearly due to the fact that her English was so bad that we couldn't understand 80% of what she said. If she was one of their "best", I'd hate to see just their "average" teacher.

You don't have to be good at English to be a good teacher of Thai. It's possible to teacher Thai to English speaking people without any knowledge of English whatsover. Teachers in England who teach English to foreigners mostly don't know any foreign languages but they still make great teachers. My gf learnt English to a very good standard in London and none of her teachers spoke any Thai at all.

Why do you feel the need to make negative remarks about Thais all the time? If you don't like them then just leave the country. If you want someone who is fluent in English to teach you, then make the effort to find a techer that suits you a bit better. In your comment you said you were told that you would be given on of the best teachers. It doesn't say that the teacher would be fluent in English. It is your mistake for choosing an unsuitable course/college/teacher.

Sort yourself out.

Edited January 27, 2011 by w11guy

[StasD]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guide...

just wondering what the Russians need a guide for at all?

Their One-Stop-Service consists of 7/11s (and the adjoining walk-way for having a stylish dinner...) plus the doll houses

in Patty plus baht buses plus the massage girls on the beach -- no guide needed for that

yes racism does not sleep. if I saw drunk let say Finnish men in S-Peterburg I never made any conclusion about finnish nation

[madmitch]

It is time that tour guides were removed from the reserved occupation list. A work permit should be allowed to be issued to those foreigners with the requisite qualifications and knowledge. With more tourists from Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe and other newer markets it would only be of benefit to the tourist industry, hence Thailand and Thais in general.

It won't happen though, will it?

[Payboy]

Your post was amusing and clearly ironic (I think sarcasm is too harsh a description) to any intelligent person. The fact that some just don't get it makes it all the more amusing.

Thanks Andy. Luckily only my IQ was questioned - I havent been asked to leave Thailand yet.

[robblok]

Easy - hire a Thai guide who speaks only Thai as a guide and a Thai to Russian "translator".

That is how it works where my wife works. She is a tourguide and often gets a "translator" with her. This was how it was done with korean's cant imagine its different with Russians. Sure some bribes were made once in a while.

[VBF]

It is time that tour guides were removed from the reserved occupation list. A work permit should be allowed to be issued to those foreigners with the requisite qualifications and knowledge. With more tourists from Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe and other newer markets it would only be of benefit to the tourist industry, hence Thailand and Thais in general.

It won't happen though, will it?

Madmitch

I agree with your first comment, but would add that I think it would be a good idea if the issuing of a work permit for becoming a tour guide required the guide to speak the foreign language fluently, (whether it be English, Russian, German or whatever) and an acceptable level of Thai.

So, you might have a Brit or American speaking English to their customers who would also be able to communicate with Thai people in official capacities. The whole job would be more professional and, therefore, so would the guides themselves. It would, if you like, become a professional career option that one would need to work for. Just a thought.

[kuffki]

It is time that tour guides were removed from the reserved occupation list. A work permit should be allowed to be issued to those foreigners with the requisite qualifications and knowledge. With more tourists from Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe and other newer markets it would only be of benefit to the tourist industry, hence Thailand and Thais in general.

It won't happen though, will it?

Madmitch

I agree with your first comment, but would add that I think it would be a good idea if the issuing of a work permit for becoming a tour guide required the guide to speak the foreign language fluently, (whether it be English, Russian, German or whatever) and an acceptable level of Thai.

So, you might have a Brit or American speaking English to their customers who would also be able to communicate with Thai people in official capacities. The whole job would be more professional and, therefore, so would the guides themselves. It would, if you like, become a professional career option that one would need to work for. Just a thought.

Not sure why you propose that guides speak an acceptable level of Thai??

They are speaking to tourists from another country in their native tongue, they really do not need/must speak any Thai.

Also what is an acceptable level of Thai? 500 words? 1000 words?

Those who take groups speaking other language then English, especially Russian really do not take any jobs from Thai. Unless of course some Thai is willing to move to Russia, live there for 3-5 years to learn the language and then come back to Thailand to work as a tour guide for 10 000 baht per month or so.

[eastlight]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guide...

just wondering what the Russians need a guide for at all?

Their most frequented places consist of 7/11s (and the adjoining side walk for having a stylish dinner...) plus the doll houses in Patty plus baht buses plus the massage girls on the beach -- no guide needed for that

And going out for a beer normally means walking round the streets with a 7/11 beer in hand

[kuffki]

So tour companies serving the huge Russian inbound market are supposed to do this with 10 Thai Russian speaking guide...

just wondering what the Russians need a guide for at all?

Their most frequented places consist of 7/11s (and the adjoining side walk for having a stylish dinner...) plus the doll houses in Patty plus baht buses plus the massage girls on the beach -- no guide needed for that

And going out for a beer normally means walking round the streets with a 7/11 beer in hand

As always no shortage of trolls. First all the Russians are mafia and come here with suitcases full of $$$$ now they all alcoholics and cheap charlies who walk around with beer cans from 7/11.

I guess ignorance has no bounds.

[simon43]

VBF's proposal is a good one, and the need to speak conversational Thai is also important because there will be many situations where the tour guide has to interact with local Thais who may not speak good English, (or Russian...)

When I worked as a police volunteer in Phuket, it was a requirement that the volunteer had knowledge of 3 languages: Their mother tongue, reasonable English (if not their mother tongue), and conversational Thai.

I know that some volunteers struggled to meet the conversational Thai requirement, but other volunteers were able to offer more than 6 languages, and they were clearly in a good position to help a large number of foreign tourists

Simon

[cdnvic]

I removed some flames, their replies, and some unreasonably derogatory comments about nationalities. Please cool your emotions before posting.

[kuffki]

VBF's proposal is a good one, and the need to speak conversational Thai is also important because there will be many situations where the tour guide has to interact with local Thais who may not speak good English, (or Russian...)

When I worked as a police volunteer in Phuket, it was a requirement that the volunteer had knowledge of 3 languages: Their mother tongue, reasonable English (if not their mother tongue), and conversational Thai.

I know that some volunteers struggled to meet the conversational Thai requirement, but other volunteers were able to offer more than 6 languages, and they were clearly in a good position to help a large number of foreign tourists

Simon

The concept is a dream, however to employ someone who say speaks Fluent Russian, Good English and some Thai would be impossible considering the wages they pay in my opinion.

Speaking from personal point of view, i speak 2 languages plus some Thai(2 years of school) and i would not work for small money. Over the years i have had many offers all were under 50k per month and i turned all down.

All those multilingual have a very valuable skill and usually do not go to work for peanuts.

some guides i know (Russian) they speak pretty much only Russian and do not even want to learn English or Thai-because they never use it.

[FarangKenStine]

In Soviet Russia guide tours YOU!

[VBF]

It is time that tour guides were removed from the reserved occupation list. A work permit should be allowed to be issued to those foreigners with the requisite qualifications and knowledge. With more tourists from Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe and other newer markets it would only be of benefit to the tourist industry, hence Thailand and Thais in general.

It won't happen though, will it?

Madmitch

I agree with your first comment, but would add that I think it would be a good idea if the issuing of a work permit for becoming a tour guide required the guide to speak the foreign language fluently, (whether it be English, Russian, German or whatever) and an acceptable level of Thai.

So, you might have a Brit or American speaking English to their customers who would also be able to communicate with Thai people in official capacities. The whole job would be more professional and, therefore, so would the guides themselves. It would, if you like, become a professional career option that one would need to work for. Just a thought.

Not sure why you propose that guides speak an acceptable level of Thai??

They are speaking to tourists from another country in their native tongue, they really do not need/must speak any Thai.

Also what is an acceptable level of Thai? 500 words? 1000 words?

Those who take groups speaking other language then English, especially Russian really do not take any jobs from Thai. Unless of course some Thai is willing to move to Russia, live there for 3-5 years to learn the language and then come back to Thailand to work as a tour guide for 10 000 baht per month or so.

I was about to reply, but Simon43's response says much of what I would have said. Basically, any tour guide working in any country should speak the local language at least at conversational level. Someone dealing with the public is sure to want to deal with locals on their behalf at some stage. If I was a tourist and spoke no Thai I might ask my tour guide a question that (s)he needed to check with a Thai person. There may be an emergancy that needs to be communicated to the Thai authorities.

If you regard being a tour guide as a profession, then it should be done in a professional manner or not at all....... to become a professional does require some effort!

Edited January 27, 2011 by VBF

[spidermike007]

It is time that tour guides were removed from the reserved occupation list. A work permit should be allowed to be issued to those foreigners with the requisite qualifications and knowledge. With more tourists from Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe and other newer markets it would only be of benefit to the tourist industry, hence Thailand and Thais in general.

It won't happen though, will it?

No, it will not happen. I sometimes think it would have been a huge blessing, had Thailand been colonized. Perhaps then, they would not have such a pathological fear of outsiders. Many of these policies are detrimental to the country, and actually end up diminishing revenues. Most countries hire the best and the brightest. Make sure they are documented, and are paying taxes, but do not forbid them from working. Eventually Thailand will figure out alot of these things, but not before they are overtaken by Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, and perhaps other neighboring countries too? Then, as they are reviewing why the country dropped from the 22nd largest economy in the world, to 54th, in a 20 year stretch, maybe some of these silly, immature, impractical, implausible, nonsensical, inane, fear based policies will be reviewed, and updated, with policies that actually benefit the country.