House In Design

[bbradsby]

Great Topic BB.

Enjoy the conversation exchange as I find informative in giving ideas on building a home in Thailand.

What are the building costs psm for these type of dwellings.

One fellow I met was involved in re-construction in East Timor. He too was using building design without air-con.

Regards

Chris

Cheers Chris, the costs of building anything here are all over the map based on such things as the "farang cost multiplier," location (Isaan, BKK, island), base contract negotiation & change order defense skills, etc!

But good design - and by that I mean: site & climate-responsive, graceful & well proportioned, and 'of the place' - costs no more than non- or poor- design for buildings. What one pays for some insulation, better performing windows should be made up for by smaller sizing, or deletion altogether, of Air Conditioning equipment. Note that I don't delete A/C from my designs, just work hard to make them unnecessary to largest extent possible.

Costing for the pictured design hasn't begun yet, as we are in engineering at present. But it will be competitively priced with comparable properties nearby, as it's a very efficient plan & roofing geometry, with typical Thai house materials for the most part. The design is in the arrangement of the elements that are required to be there in any case!

[Chris Lawrence]

Many thanks BB

[splitlid]

You're preachin to the choir, here!

ain't that the truth.

[extexthai]

Orientation to property can be extremely beneficial to having a passively cool dwelling. I realize not everyone has this choice for various reasons. We were fortunate in that we could and did take advantage of not only orientating the house to take advantage of the monsoonal wind patterns, but got a terrific view as well. Again, we were also fortunate in that we are in the northern part of the country, next to a lovely mountain range.

We incorporated into the house design, a number of features to help take advantage of the concept of passive coolness. I think the most important design feature was having a breezeway going right through the main part. We have an east wing at ground level, a west wing which is elevated by 1 m and above the breezeway, the MBR area. Using maximum ventilation to keep the attic area cool as possible with vented soffit for the entire perimeter of overhang and custom made gable louver vents facing north, south, east and west, most heat buildup is dissipated, especially if there is even a nominal breeze. We also put exhaust fans at ceiling height in all wings of the house. Getting the daily hot build up of air out is essential. We went with very high ceilings in two parts of the house. Also used, was ACC block with a dead air space and then red brick on the interior...didn't want those columns showing in the walls. We used a light colored Trilon roofing, the heat reflective coated style...which by the way is NOT hail proof, but does seem to be at least 50% cooler than darker colored roofing (dark colors absorbs heat as most know). We weren't lucky enough to have shade via vegetation, but being this is the tropics, it will grow relatively quick as soon as all the ground work is done. We plan on trellises on the western facing wall that will be above window height and have some sort of vine/foliage growing for shade. The real test will start in April, as we finished the house just at the end of last year. Good luck building. Keep on top of things such as proper layout, as leaving such to any Thai worker would be....inadvisable. Try and stay away from a "builder", per se....they make their money shortcutting every corner they can. ett

[doglover]

Very nice house extexthai. Great idea with the custom built vent at the gable ends right up at the peak to allow the heat out. However, I wonder if you've been through a rainy season yet? I wouldn't be surprised if you hear rain hitting your gypsum ceiling inside the house (may not hear it if you have rolled out insulation) during the nastier storms where it sometimes seems to rain in all directions. A longer overhang of your roof covering the vents would have helped decrease or stop this altogether.

I have this problem during the nasty storms with my house and the vents are not as open and I have more of an overhang.

[extexthai]

Very nice house extexthai. Great idea with the custom built vent at the gable ends right up at the peak to allow the heat out. However, I wonder if you've been through a rainy season yet? I wouldn't be surprised if you hear rain hitting your gypsum ceiling inside the house (may not hear it if you have rolled out insulation) during the nastier storms where it sometimes seems to rain in all directions. A longer overhang of your roof covering the vents would have helped decrease or stop this altogether.

I have this problem during the nasty storms with my house and the vents are not as open and I have more of an overhang.

I know what you are talking about...so far, even with the really wind blown rain from the end of last wet season, there was no leakage. The overhang is one meter in most places...TIT. To further insure this not happening, I went back up in the attic and attached some aluminum....looks like h-bar with a slight bend upward on the handle part and slide this onto the already 45 degree angled slats and then re-did the bird screening. Hopefully this will catch any windblown rain and drain it downwards and unless it is downright horizontal rain...which I have see in other places...then I think...knock on wood, that I am okay with this. I looked at the pre-made vents for gables and they are a joke. The ones I had made are a good 20 cm wide (thick?) and allows a lot more air to vent out and in....and rain. The very large gables face east and west respectively and most of the real nasty storms come from the south. I am still crossing my fingers for the next true test, though. We were very fortunate in finding a real, Thai craftsman...even had his own table saw, if I dare go out on a limb and call it such....actually it just a ripping machine, no angle adjustment. He was amazing in doing the compound cuts. He also set all the doors, a chore I did not want to do, but have done a 100 times or so in my past life. I even got him to make a couple of thresholds which was a novelty for him. All in all it came out great and we are very happy with it....and one of us is a real stickler when it comes to construction projects...another throw back from that previous life. Thanks for the comment....ett

[doglover]

Give and thy shall receive. Now that you mention it, it is only the one vent on the south side of the house that has the problems during the nasty storms. The ones on the north and west sides are fine yet are constructed the same way. Thanks for the tip, wasn't aware that nasty storms primarily come from the south. Maybe I'll just take that vent out and install a big louvered exhaust fan in it's place. Have been wanting to install a exhaust fan anyways.

[bbradsby]

...We incorporated into the house design, a number of features to help take advantage of the concept of passive coolness. I think the most important design feature was having a breezeway going right through the main part. We have an east wing at ground level, a west wing which is elevated by 1 m and above the breezeway, the MBR area...

Looks well thought out, as a whole! Living within a microclimate long enough, and having the mindset, to understand its wind & storm predominant directions is wise... and unusual.

Those breezeways are a tried & true solution - you'll see them called 'Dog Trots' in 150 year old Southern US houses, along with 4m ceilings and very tall double-hung windows with two operating sashes that extend very close to the ceiling in order to exhaust the hot air before it can 'pool downwards' to the occupants.

The exterior shading devices you mention for West elevation will help massively in stopping heat load before it happens; and the shaded, relatively-insulated brick masses inboard of your hollow concrete block walls should nicely moderate the diurnal temperature swings.

Where in LOS is the house located?

[extexthai]

...We incorporated into the house design, a number of features to help take advantage of the concept of passive coolness. I think the most important design feature was having a breezeway going right through the main part. We have an east wing at ground level, a west wing which is elevated by 1 m and above the breezeway, the MBR area...

Looks well thought out, as a whole! Living within a microclimate long enough, and having the mindset, to understand its wind & storm predominant directions is wise... and unusual.

Those breezeways are a tried & true solution - you'll see them called 'Dog Trots' in 150 year old Southern US houses, along with 4m ceilings and very tall double-hung windows with two operating sashes that extend very close to the ceiling in order to exhaust the hot air before it can 'pool downwards' to the occupants.

The exterior shading devices you mention for West elevation will help massively in stopping heat load before it happens; and the shaded, relatively-insulated brick masses inboard of your hollow concrete block walls should nicely moderate the diurnal temperature swings.

Where in LOS is the house located?

We are just to the north west of Phayao, between Wat Analayo and Mae Chai. A real nice, rural, rice farming area....read hard pan clay substrate. Had to design and implement an aerobic septic system to enhance the anaerobic primary septic tank. But seems to be working just fine.

I remember the old 'dog runs' in the older houses. I had Aunts living in Mobile AL, with those really tall, ceilings and such.

I have my fingers crossed, as the real 'test' is about a month or so away. Just as a back-up...I pre-wired two rooms for AC. If it gets too darn hot....ett

[doglover]

What's up BBradsby?!! Anxiously awaiting your return. You started this thread and then dissappeared........Come on back!

[bbradsby]

OK, I'm baaaack

the house in the original post is out for structural engineering quotes - presently there are two in, and am looking for two more to get best value for the client. Please if anybody can recommend a Thai structural engineer they like, I would greatly appreciate if they'd PM me as I believe posting names/numbers here would be verboten per TV rules - am I wrong?

Thanks in advance!

[extexthai]

Hello bdb,

Just wondering if you got your project finished. I was wrong about the nastier of the storms coming from the south....the worst ones so far have been from the west and northwest. Several times now the dining room walls inside looked like a fountain during these wind blown bouts...walls and floors don't mind too much, but gypsum ceilings sure do. Have been lucky so far with only a few stains. After it is all over, we just open up the front doors and sweep out the water.

However, we just finished remodeling the west facing gable louver vent, yesterday. The original slats weren't at 45 degrees, but more like 30 degrees and were spaced way too far apart. I added another slat and installed some aluminium drip moulding on both edges of the slats. The upper edge moulding turned up will hopefully prevent any wind blown rain from coming over the top, and the lower edge moulding is an actual drip mould. Now with the proper angle and spacing done correctly, I am hoping all is well. We will see the next blow we get. We will be working on the other gable louver today. I had to rent 4 sections of scaffolding to do this, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

By the way if anyone has the toolage and dabbles in wood working and wants to build gable louver vents that actually work for air flow, I have the compound angles figured out for a roof with a 30 degree pitch.

Since last year was unseasonably cool, I could not tell just how efficient of a passively cooled house, ours was. Seems like the day right after Songkran this year, the thermometer went way up. I get up before the crack of dawn and open up the house, turn on all the ceiling height exhaust fans and let her breathe. Around 9:00 or so, it all gets closed up and it stays remarkably cool inside the entire day. Now it won't be as cool as having AC on, but it sure is doable and way more affordable. I am so amazed how cool it is, especially compared to any of the other houses in our area, which is like comparing rocks to cinnamon rolls. Good luck on your project. ett