Moving Back To The Uk

[onnut]

Hi guys, need some help with a few questions please! I have searched through the forum but everyones problems seem to be different.

My son is 3 in two months time and I am not in the position to pay for a decent education for him. I have had bad luck in work over the last year and have now come to the conclusion that things are not going to improve in my line of work in Thailand.

at the moment I am on a very low salary and between my wife and I we bring home enough to pay the morgage, car and bills with nothing left at the end of the month. My wife needs the car for her job so no way to sell to save money. already sold mine 6 months ago.

so here is the question/s!

we have decided to try the UK, I am certain I will find work, it might not be the greatest of pay but I am sure it will be enough to get us through until I find something better.

what would be the best way to go about going home? if I were to leave Thailand in two weeks time would it be easy enough to sort out my wifes visa from the UK or should we get that all sorted before I go. I need to go first to set up work and home for us so thats why I ask.

I guess the Visa will be easy enough to obtain, we have beend married 5 years and have a 3 year old. I do not to sort out a UK passport for my son also, so will get cracking with that this week.

any advice will be much appreciated, and I will check in on the post everyday when I get a few minutes at work.

thank you

[theoldgit]

First of all I'm sorry to learn about your predicament onnut, what you are proposing is a fairly radical, though sensible solution and I wish you well.

I don't know what line of work you are in but you will be aware that whilst there a green shoots of recovery in the UK that's all they are, I returned from the UK a few days ago and whilst I wasn't looking for work over there the friends and family I spoke to were either worried about their current job or were really struggling to find employment, and whilst I found it really depressing it looks as if you really have no option.

Without going into the intricacies of your families visa position at the moment, the fact that you have been together for five years will make it easier to obtain a visa and it will be easier for your wife to remain. I am assuming that your lad either has or can get a British Passport which will allow him to enter in his own right.

Whether you you apply before you return to the UK or afterwards is really a chicken and egg situation, you will need to prove that you can support your family but until you get there you will not have a job and, I assume, no family home. I would suggest that you start preparing your families application and when you are settled in the UK complete the evidence for your wife to apply for her settlement visa.

I have only just scratched the surface over what is clearly a difficult period for you all, there will, I'm sure there will be many differing views, but I really think you need to provide evidence that you have a job in the UK and can support your wife and family, your wife will of course be able to work in her own right.

I wish you all the best.

[H2oDunc]

From the people I talk to back home things there are very bleak on the jobs front countrywide. You don't say what line of work you are in. That would make all the difference I think. Have you a guaranteed job to go to ? Again that would be better than just turning up without anything. Also it might pay to go back and work and let the missus stay here and work whilst you send money back to support her. A far cheaper option than you both living in the UK.

Could you not relocate inside Thailand to get a better wage ? Good luck in your venture either way

[rixalex]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Can't offer advice. Just hope things start picking up for you. I think the fact that you are prepared to make some tough decisions means you'll be fine. Good luck.

[Basil B]

Hi Onnut,

As quoted, things are bleak, I have been unemployed 3 months now, first time in my life, with my last employer nearly 22 years, everybody, work colleagues, friends and family thought I would find work easy but this has not been the case.

One suggestion is if you are going to move back is to web search the agencies in your line of business, contact them and see if they can line up some interviews for your return so you can hit the ground running.

If you are flexible about which location you return too will be an advantage so I would recommend finding a job before permanent home.

Bast of luck,

Basil.

[oldsailor35]

Its twelve months now since i was in the UK, but i did notice that some parts of the country were better for jobs than others. As has been said, you did not mention what sort of a job you would be looking for or where you intend to live. For sure, there will be a better education system for your son there than in Thailand, also health and social security. So provided you can 'stick' life in UK for a few years, i think it will be much better for your little family.

Whatever happens, i am sure that we all wish you good luck. So please keep us up to date with your movements.

Regards O/S

[7by7]

From what you have said you 'tick all the boxes' except, possibly, Maintenance and accommodation.

MAA10 Assessing adequate means of maintenance says

The following list, which is not comprehensive, is intended as a guide to the factors which may need to be considered when assessing means of maintenance:

• the applicant's past and current employment;
• do the applicant's / sponsor's educational qualifications and any other skills or qualifications offer a reasonable chance of obtaining employment? If so, that should be viewed as sufficient to meet the maintenance requirement without having to make further enquiries.
• the sponsor's current or proposed employment;
• any plans the applicant has for employment in the UK;
• What is the unemployment situation in the area in which the couple intend to settle? High unemployment in a particular area or amongst a certain age group with particular skills (or lack of them), is not in itself sufficient to show that the maintenance requirement has not been met. It would be a relevant factor if the couple's plans were not realistic or if they did not have any skills or qualifications.
• any arrangements which have been made, or could be made, by the sponsor, any other relatives, friends or contacts in the UK in connection with the plans for employment;
• satisfied that job offers are genuine and the work likely to last for the foreseeable future?
• any support which will be forthcoming from others.

Note that financial support from others, friends or family, is acceptable, at least in the short term.

Accommodation provided by friends or family is also acceptable. MAA12 Legally owned or exclusively occupied

If the accommodation is not owned by the couple (or one of them), the Rules require that there be adequate accommodation which is for their exclusive use. This need not be as elaborate as a self-contained flat. It is acceptable for a couple to live in an existing household, e.g. that of a parent, uncle, aunt, sibling or friend, as long as they have at least a bedroom for their exclusive use.

If the couple have children with them there must be additional adequate accommodation for them (see MAA14 for maximum numbers of persons allowed).

Best of luck.

[onnut]

Hi guys, thanks very much for your answers.

I work as a chef / restaurant manager in Thailand. If I can't find this line of work in the UK I have no problem working in a factory or warehouse either. I'm 35 years old, which may help, good experience with working abroad for 16 years.

I will go the the Embassy on Thursday to start the ball rolling. Also I will send my CV to some agents and job centres. I plan to go to Norwich but can just as easy go to West London as I have family in both places.

I have moved to 4 countries before without a job to go to and taken a chance which have all worked out. So not worried about doing it again, except now I have a family to care for, so this time will be different.

I resigned today, a big weight off my shoulders! Boss very understanding which is good. I will probably stay working here for a month or 6 weeks then head home to try and make a go of it.

Wife is looking forward to the UK, I hope it's as good as she thinks it will be. I have good family so will have some support but I don't like to take libertys.

I will keep you all posted with daily updates.

If any of you have any ideas, feel free to post them.

Thank you

[mightyharriss]

we need to talk mate been through this got big list of pros and cons

Edited February 5, 2011 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post removed.

[7by7]

Mightyharriss, it may be of help to others in this situation were you to post that list here.

[Basil B]

You did not say what line of work your wife was in.

But the obvious thing that comes to mind is running/managing a Thai restaurant or even taking on a pub with restaurant tenancy as a husband wife team (and specialize in Thai Meals).

Hope all works out for you.

Basil.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Basil B

[onnut]

My wife works in sales for food companies selling to hotels imported products.

Very good at her job, very good English and very confident. I don't think she will struggle looking for work once she is in the UK.

She hopes to find work co-ordinating between Thailand and the UK in a sales position with one of her suppliers.

[mightyharriss]

Mightyharriss, it may be of help to others in this situation were you to post that list here.

My Pleasure,

I shall do so in the morrow

[thaicbr]

My wife works in sales for food companies selling to hotels imported products.

Very good at her job, very good English and very confident. I don't think she will struggle looking for work once she is in the UK.

She hopes to find work co-ordinating between Thailand and the UK in a sales position with one of her suppliers.

Ok. 1st thing. If you actually cut back on expenditure, smaller house etc could you not survive here and build you life back as the world economy improves. As you state your wife has a decent job. You could find a job here. With out the expense of moving back to the UK (flights, visa etc).

Can your wife work in the UK,that depends on what Visa you get her (and they can take 1 - 4 months i believe)

I think you need to to do more thinking about this. But it's your life. Good luck.

[onnut]

Thaicbr

We have already made cut backs. Sold my car last year, got rid of certain things we were paying for monthly and saved around 45k a month altogether.

We can't down size the house because we can't sell. It's been on the market for 18 months with no bites.

We have made our minds up and think it's the right move, so we are going to go. If we don't like it we can always come back when things are better.

My main question is, would it work ok for me to move over to the UK now and find work and a home then apply for my wife to come later? I'm thinking I will be set up within 3 months. Would this work or would it be better to arrange visas now and she comes right after me?

Probably better to have work and a home first I guess. If so then is it easy enough to apply for her visa while I am in the UK?

[7by7]

Your decision, really.

Remember that financial support and accommodation from relatives or friends is acceptable and that your and her job prospects in the UK will also be taken into account. You should both start a job search in the UK now, and include evidence of that in the application, as well as outlining both of your UK job prospects in the application.

Though, obviously, if you have already obtained a job and set up a family home in the UK before she applies then it will be easier to show that you can adequately maintain accommodate her and your child. There is no reason why she cannot apply while you are in the UK

However, what would you do if after 3 months in the UK you were still jobless?

[SGD]

The fact is that in the UK there is a great big safety net under you. As for the move, I recently went through a similar situation so here's my synopsis.

Work out where you are going to move to, at least the town etc. Then hit the net and look at accommodation from agents and from places like Gumtree on the net (Gumtree is the new Loot). Beware that as you'll have no credit history in the UK now, a worst case scenario is to be prepared to pay 6 months rent in advance as well as the regular up front costs of perhaps 2 months as a deposit and a few hundred in fees. Obviously renting privately will mean less in terms of advance costs.

You need to know what your local housing allowance is https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/Secure/Default.aspx as this dictates any housing benefit you may be entitled to. You and your son means a 2 bed LHA and you don't need to / can't claim extra for a wife. Job Seekers Allowance is around £65 a week, Child Benefit is £20.30 a week and if you work on a lowish wage, then you can get tax credits up to about £140 a week.

Your child would receive 15 hours free nursery education per week but if you both worked a minimum of 16 hours and had a lowish income, you could get further tax credits for up to 75% of your childcare costs up to £175 a week (thus you can get up to £140 a week in help). Beware though that nursery education is not cheap. Without discounts mine would be around £1100/1200 a month for one child.

If you do contract or temp work then consider setting up your own company. The system is set up all wrong but there are legal ways of maximising your income. Even talking to the various government departments you become amazed at just how Labour has created this bloated welfare state where nearly all working adults get some benefit or another. Utter madness but yours to take advantage of. PM if you want to.

Don't worry about the fact that you've been away. From the second you arrive back with the intention to remain in the UK, all the system goodies are open and available to you. JSA, Housing Benefit, medical, etc. all available from day one. Signing up with a GP is straightforward but NHS dentists are not so prevalent. Get any dental work done before you come back ! It is ruinously expensive here but the best deals by far are the pay monthly deals. I pay £15 a month for an otherwise very expensive London clinic. Not insurance but twice yearly check ups and cleaning plus free this and that. I pay in £180 what would otherwise cost perhaps £300. Then 10-20% discount on payable fees on top.

Bank accounts - if you have an old one, reactivate it. If not, they have simple accounts these days if they refuse you a full account. Nationwide has a good one, debit card on their Cash Card Flex Account to use in shops. All PIN and chip nowadays. Good website as well. Nat West OK as well from my recent experience.

What are the biggest hurdles ? Aside from the weather it is the upfront costs, especially if you have to pay 6 months advance rent. Other stuff you can sort out in a week. You need to get back in the system so to speak and the easiest way is to claim JSA (new name for unemployment benefit) and you do that over the phone or by calling in to your local Job Centre. You may well walk into a job in a week and no-one wants to think about benefits but false pride and delaying claiming could mean a world of difference.

There are jobs out there but not necessarily for the money you need. I looked into a visa application based on claiming some benefits but was fortunate enough not to have to go down that route. Whilst the law says you cannot claim extra for your wife and her being there would not really matter for any benefit other than Job Seekers Allowance (you'd get the single persons rate), the law also indicates that you need a minimum of what the state would provide were she not subject to immigration control (couple's rate). Sort of a rock and a hard place though I think you can construct a very good argument to overcome this if you have some savings.

With hindsight, I would advise all coming together rather than you going on ahead. If you get a job straight away then you face months apart, supporting two families and if you don't get work straight away, you have to support two households on less money than you need to pay for one. Get onto anyone, even a Thai restaurant who could offer or potentially offer your wife a job (even if she has no intention of doing that work). Same for you, agencies writing letters (emails) saying that you stand a good chance of getting a job. Work out a financial prediction as well (salary from job covering all bills including rent etc.).

As for mobiles, if you get a mobile on the 3 network (or a hi-tech mobile on any network) then you can buy a Skype subscription which enables you to call Thai landlines and mobiles for very little. I pay about £30 a year for unlimited minutes. Easily the most cost effective means of her keeping in touch with things back home.

Happy to answer any other questions.

[Basil B]

Very good post SGD, yes in the UK there are many benefits you will get, but as I understand Onnut will not be entitled to the £65.40 JSA unless he has been paying voluntary NI, had a family member refused because they had not paid NI in the last 2 years, there is another side to JSA that is "means tested" but unsure whether he would qualify.

Not sure, but as Onnut and his wife have been married over 4 years she would qualify ILE which may entitle her to public funds, unfortunately I understand she can not do the KOL in Thailand so Indefinite Leave to Enter is not Indefinite, best read this topic with some very good info by 7by7 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/252601-uk-settlement%3B-spouse-visa-or-ile/page__p__2619220__fromsearch__1#entry2619220 note: since this topic started the A1 English test has been introduced and needs to be factored in.

[mightyharriss]

great post SGD!!

[SGD]

Very good post SGD, yes in the UK there are many benefits you will get, but as I understand Onnut will not be entitled to the £65.40 JSA unless he has been paying voluntary NI, had a family member refused because they had not paid NI in the last 2 years, there is another side to JSA that is "means tested" but unsure whether he would qualify.

Not sure, but as Onnut and his wife have been married over 4 years she would qualify ILE which may entitle her to public funds, unfortunately I understand she can not do the KOL in Thailand so Indefinite Leave to Enter is not Indefinite, best read this topic with some very good info by 7by7 http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry2619220 note: since this topic started the A1 English test has been introduced and needs to be factored in.

The OP is entitled to JSA from day one, save the 3 days qualifying. This has nothing to do with past history but simply because he states he is available for work but has none. Obviously he would not state that he resigned from his job ! This would be income based rather than contributory based JSA as you rightly deduce.

As to ILE, you are again right that she cannot do the KoL outside the UK. I can't remember what that gives you but no doubt the government will have their grubby hand out for whatever they can get - so don't fret about taking some back from them !

Just another point, there is a Thai website, ladyinter*, which seems to be a focal point for many Thai women waiting for visas.

As to location, speak to the missus about her need / desire to go to temples etc. as this can be one more thing to consider when looking for a place to live.

Edited February 7, 2011 by 7by7
* Link removed; links to other forums are not allowed; see forum rules.

[7by7]

Although SGD is correct that a British or UK resident sponsor may claim, or be claiming, any public funds to which they may be entitled and use such benefits to help them meet the maintenance and accommodation requirements; I do see a problem in the Onnut's situation.

He is not yet in receipt of any benefits, and will not be until he is resident in the UK.

Even then, my understanding is that he cannot claim tax credits or child benefit for a family which is not living in the UK; although he will be able to once they have joined him.

In my opinion, he cannot rely on public funds he may receive once his family is in the UK to satisfy the maintenance requirements.

Most housing associations and other social housing providers take their tenants from council waiting lists. He will not get onto a waiting list for two bedroom accommodation until his son joins him; and even then waiting lists in most areas are very long with no guarantee of how long he'd have to wait until suitable accommodation became available. He and his wife and child could easily be split up into bed and breakfast hostels!

In my opinion, he cannot rely on social housing he may receive some time in the future to satisfy the accommodation requirements.

I may, though, be wrong in some or all of the above and would appreciate either confirmation or correction from a professional.

From what he has said, it appears that Onnut's wife will, indeed, be entitled to ILE.

As can be seen from the post Basil linked to, one doesn't apply for ILE, one applies for settlement in the appropriate category, in this case spouse, and one does have to satisfy the new English requirement before applying.

If one satisfies all the criteria for ILE except the knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) then one will be issued with ILE(subject to KOL). This is valid for 27 months, and one has this time to settle in the UK and meet the KOL requirement. Unlike an ordinary, for example, spouse visa one can apply for ILR as soon as one has satisfied KOL, without having to be resident in the UK for 24 months.

The advantage of this is that since being introduced the fees for ILR, and other LTR, applications have been regularly increased by amounts way above inflation by the last government and every indication is that this one will continue with this. Basically, the sooner one applies for ILR, the cheaper it will be.

[RAZZELL]

Have a look on here:

http://www.caterer.com/browse-hospitality-jobs

The advert's expired but Fullers are/were looking for Thai Food franchisees:

http://www.caterer.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=49484567

Good luck

RAZZ

Edited February 7, 2011 by RAZZELL

[onnut]

wow, some really good advise and help here guys, Thanks for that.

I am not interested in sponging off the government but its nice to know its there if I need it.

new developements:

already have places to choose from where I can stay, all three places are looking for my skills in work, so I reckon I will have a job pretty soon, even if it is not a good paying one it will do for starters.

I have been in contact with a few diferent online job centers which have all got back to me with positive news.

I left the UK when I was 19, having only worked for 9 months after leaving collage. I have no clue as to what my NI number is so I will have to apply for this, where would I do that?

so apart from having to sort out my NI number what else would I need to do before starting work?

I have an old bank account still in my name, no money in it though for years but its still there. so I will revive that.

[7by7]

The NI number you were issued when you were 16 is still valid; it remains with you for life.

From Applying for a National Insurance number

If you've lost or can't remember your number, you might be able to find it on official paperwork like:

• your P60 (end of year tax statement, given to you by your employer)
• a payslip
• a copy of your annual Self Assessment tax return
• other official correspondence

If you still can't find your number, you can ask HMRC to confirm it by:

• completing and returning form CA5403 Your National Insurance number
• contacting the National Insurance Registrations Helpline on 0845 915 7006 (lines open from 8.30 am to 5.00 pm Monday to Friday)

HMRC cannot confirm your National Insurance number by telephone. They will write to you instead.

When your wife arrives she too will need a NI number if she wants to work. That same page gives details of how she applies for one. She doesn't have to receive it before she starts work as her employer will use a temporary number based upon her date of birth until she receives the real one.

If you will be employed and paying tax through PAYE neither of you will have a P45 to give your employer, so they should give you a form to fill in (P46) to apply for a tax code. You should complete and return this ASAP as until you do you will be on an emergency tax code and be paying too much tax, although you will get this back once the correct code has been allocated.

If one or both of you will be self employed then you will need to register for Self Assessment; see Self Assessment - your tax return.

Having checked, I find that I was correct in my previous post. One cannot claim child benefit for a child who lives abroad and one can only claim tax credits for family living abroad if they live in the EEA or one is a Crown Servant.

So, once your wife and child are in the UK with you you will be able to claim child benefit and, if your income is low enough, tax credits. You will make the claim for child benefit as your wife cannot claim public funds. However, tax credit claims have to be made jointly by married couples, so she is allowed to be included in the claim for this. See Child Benefit and Tax Credits. Remember, claiming these is your right and not sponging off the state!

[onnut]

I need to get my sons passport sorted out. does anyone know what paperwork I will need to present? I can find a website with these details.

I just order online a copy of my birth certificate and hopefully that will be here soon. what else would I need to make this a painless application?

Thanks for the help 7by7, great post and it will come in use when I get to the UK.

[bangkockney]

In my opinion, he cannot rely on public funds he may receive once his family is in the UK to satisfy the maintenance requirements.

In my opinion, he cannot rely on social housing he may receive some time in the future to satisfy the accommodation requirements.

True on both counts.

It is also worth pointing out that if the applicant’s arrival in the UK would cause an increase in a sponsor’s entitlement to benefits, this would be regarded as recourse to public funds which is not permitted.

To the OP:

The fact that you have a low income does not automatically preclude a successful application. The minimum level of funds available to a couple should be no less than that of the income support level for a couple. This is £102.75/wk today, £105.95/wk from April 2011.

As long as your income is at this minimum level, and you meet your obligations (mortgage/rent and loans/debts) you will be able to satisfy the maintenance requirement.

The maintenance requirement can be satisfied from savings only (with no need for employment) or based on employment, with a very low pay threshold. e.g.

£105.95 per week is a little over £11,000 over 2 years

Rent at £400 per month over 2 years = £9,600

There are no debts =

£21,000 would be sufficient without needing to be employed

(or no savings at all and a job paying £10,500 per year after deductions)

NB. Obviously this would need to be tailored to your own accommodation costs & any debts.

It's not all doom and gloom when you consider the numbers. Good luck and keep us posted.

[onnut]

Jobs I've been looking at are paying between 18k and 25k a year. No school fees, can knock the insurance payments on the head as well.

This sort of salary should be fine for us.

I am very confident it will go well. I will keep you all posted. Thanks for the support guys, it's been a great help.

[7by7]

I need to get my sons passport sorted out. does anyone know what paperwork I will need to present?

See How to apply from Thailand (First time applications) and the relevent links from there. (Don't worry that the link will take you to the Hong Kong Consulate-General; they handle British passport applications for Thailand and other countries in the region.)

[onnut]

7by7

Thank you. It's in process now.

Work have asked me to stay another month so I've put everything back one month but that will probably benefit us anyhow.

Thanks for all your help guys.