Vientiane Double Visa: Three Strikes And You'Re Out!

[CSS]

I wonder if the same people who obviously think it is their birthright to live in Thailand forever on their own terms are the same ones who constantly bemoan the influx of immigrants to their home countries.

My thoughts exactly.

Do not confuse 'immigration' with 'migration'. Immigration is a formal process that involves immigration law and government involvement.

It is the 'migration' of people across borders without formal immigration proceedings (aka human trafficing) that is irritating people. It is especially irritating when these 'migrants' and their agents are carrying drugs and AK-47s. It is also irritating to see individuals confusing the two terms either out of ignorance or the desire to mask the real situation.

To clear up some misunderstanding of terms.

From Black's Law Dictionary (9th Edition, 2009):

immigration, n. (17c) The act of entering a country with the intention of settling there permanently.

migration. (17c) Movement (of people or animals) from one country or region to another.

human trafficking. The illegal recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of a person, esp. one from another country, with the intent to hold the person captive or exploit the person for labor, services, or body parts. • Human-trafficking offenses include forced prostitution, forced marriages, sweat-shop labor, slavery, and harvesting organs from unwilling donors.

people-smuggling. The crime of helping a person enter a country illegally in return for a fee.

[transam]

Breath-taking, the number of foreigners who think it is their right to inhabit someone else's country on their terms.

Its probably because our own countries are so lax on foreigners - we have 300,000 illegal immigrants in UK many who've been shipped over from France and our taxpayers pay for every one of them. Indians come to England they get a house a car a temple built for them and a job or a corner shop as they wish while our own people live on unemployment benefit, as well as this they get laws to protect them that don't protect native citizens - I suppose that's what you get for having democracy and equality!! But that's what makes westerners at lease expect a short stay and a VISA in another country. The rights which Chinese communities enjoy all over the world FAR outweigh what westerners have or would expect to have in Thailand (or China for that matter)!! So PLEASE DON'T accuse westerners of not having the right to a VISA when they give so much to the third world.

+1

[tropo]

Just read this and most of the posts. It sounds to me, and confirms my suspicions, that only lone rangers are being singled out: as usual. Go with a tour company and you will never be bothered. The tour companies always check your passport for flaws, errors, etc. If they give you a thumbs up to ride in their minivan, then it is a fair guess that your passport will make it through the backdoor process when the passengers are herded like cattle through the turnstiles.

This lawyer? I suspect she had a chip on her shoulder, as well as being a lone ranger. She probably also has a mouthy, better than you attitude, and gave the border official an earful of law and regulation and what the official can and can not do.

I have never heard of any case where a passenger traveling with a tour company was ever refused, with the exception of simply being a wanke_r.

In my experience, and it is certifiably qualified in this matter, the only times this issue has come up is with lone rangers, and people who act like morons to the officials. Oh; dressing like a bum and having poor hygiene will earn you their scorn as well when you have to deal with any Thai official. Dress presentable, smile, and don't wave your hands and arms in their face is a good rule of thumb to live by.

Just my two bits.

You're making a lot of assumption which are incorrect.

The Filipino "agents" no longer take people to Vientiane because they no longer have success there.

An agent failed to secure a visa for my Filipino gf way back in October 2009. I've heard reports since that other agents have admitted to not being able to secure visas in some cases.

You can have a makeover and dress up in a suit and tie if you like. Apart from looking stupid it won't help you one bit.

[tropo]

You're confirming what I've been saying all along. They don't have time to analyse the length of periods between visas, where they were issued and total time spent in Thailand. They are too busy and just quickly count the stamps. They were doing that in Penang too.

Of course people want to know how many they can get? No clear answer has ever come.

Perhaps in March after the free period ends things may change.

Please don't anyone hold their breath - the revival of the Tourist visa charges are nothing if not "nebulous" - there's no guarantee that they will come back into service next month.

As you say, there is no guarantee, but if you were watching very closely over the last 2 years when multiple free periods came and went you would have noticed a difference in policy when the free periods started. I noticed this both in Phnom Penh and Vientiane. For example, the consulate in Phnom Phen was issuing double entry tourist visa at the beginning of 2009. As soon as they became free they stopped immediately.

They built a new consulate in Vientiane just before visas went into a free period. Why did they build such a large area for issuing visas? If they keep knocking back so many applicants it'll turn into a ghost town soon.

[lopburi3]

Simple soultion. Get a new passport. Americans can renew there passport even if the old one is not expired. New passport + blank pages = no stickers to count.

Sorry Thairich but you are wrong with your solution.When you get a new passport all of the stamp's and visa's are transferred from the old passport to the new one.I just experienced this as i recently renewed my passport.

Anyway,it is their country and their rules and we are only guests here so,simple follow the rules or try another country with visa rules that suit one.I can't imagine what anyone would do staying here for months or years upon end unless one is retired here.Once you've seen the sites here the only thing to do is hang around in the bar's and drink.And one can't work unless you have the proper visa,not a tourist visa.

No visas are ever transferred into a new passport and the only stamps pertain the current stay and a note that is is being transferred from the former passport.

[koheesti]

The reigns should be tightened. You either qualify to work/live here, or you don't. Questionable people living/working here on tourist visas from neighbouring countries should be reined in, and if they don't meet the requirements to live/work here legally, they should be shipped out, with a short stay in a prison cell to teach them some respect for another country's visa laws.

I agree. But the solution isn't to limit Tourist Visas, the solution is to crack down on people working illegally. Not everyone getting multiple TVs over a few years is working illegally or otherwise. I was one of those people who lived 2 years in Thailand on Tourist Visas. I didn't work, taking a job from any Thai or anyone else. I spent a lot of money over that period and there are quite a few Thais and their businesses who would love to have me back as I was good income for them.

[MaxYakov]

Simple soultion. Get a new passport. Americans can renew there passport even if the old one is not expired. New passport + blank pages = no stickers to count.

Sorry Thairich but you are wrong with your solution.When you get a new passport all of the stamp's and visa's are transferred from the old passport to the new one.I just experienced this as i recently renewed my passport.

Anyway,it is their country and their rules and we are only guests here so,simple follow the rules or try another country with visa rules that suit one.I can't imagine what anyone would do staying here for months or years upon end unless one is retired here.Once you've seen the sites here the only thing to do is hang around in the bar's and drink.And one can't work unless you have the proper visa,not a tourist visa.

No visas are ever transferred into a new passport and the only stamps pertain the current stay and a note that is is being transferred from the former passport.

What 'lopburi3' describes is exactly what happened with my new passport - performed by a Thai Immigration officer at the Cambodian border last June on the second entry of a double-entry visa run. I presented both the previous and the new passports for the entry.

Edited February 8, 2011 by MaxYakov

[cup-O-coffee]

Just read this and most of the posts. It sounds to me, and confirms my suspicions, that only lone rangers are being singled out: as usual. Go with a tour company and you will never be bothered. The tour companies always check your passport for flaws, errors, etc. If they give you a thumbs up to ride in their minivan, then it is a fair guess that your passport will make it through the backdoor process when the passengers are herded like cattle through the turnstiles.

This lawyer? I suspect she had a chip on her shoulder, as well as being a lone ranger. She probably also has a mouthy, better than you attitude, and gave the border official an earful of law and regulation and what the official can and can not do.

I have never heard of any case where a passenger traveling with a tour company was ever refused, with the exception of simply being a wanke_r.

In my experience, and it is certifiably qualified in this matter, the only times this issue has come up is with lone rangers, and people who act like morons to the officials. Oh; dressing like a bum and having poor hygiene will earn you their scorn as well when you have to deal with any Thai official. Dress presentable, smile, and don't wave your hands and arms in their face is a good rule of thumb to live by.

Just my two bits.

You're making a lot of assumption which are incorrect.

The Filipino "agents" no longer take people to Vientiane because they no longer have success there.

An agent failed to secure a visa for my Filipino gf way back in October 2009. I've heard reports since that other agents have admitted to not being able to secure visas in some cases.

You can have a makeover and dress up in a suit and tie if you like. Apart from looking stupid it won't help you one bit.

'Not making assumptions. My info is backed by fact. You are the one making assumptions. When you let your Filipino GF use a Filipino agency, you assumed what they told you was true. When you read my post, you assumed that I was including Filipino agencies located in Thailand, when in fact I am speaking about Thai travel agencies who are connected with the border immigration posts and embassies in Laos and Cambodia.

Most people these days do not ask; they assume. Maybe because there is not enough time to entail every detail in one comment or conversation. Sorry to mislead you, but you need to ask, and not assume - in turn - and misjudge.

Any legitimate Thai travel agency will be able to look through your passport and singularly identify each problem you (and they) will have if they take you to the border and hand your passport over to their immigration contacts, through the backdoor. As a consequence, they will ordinarily refuse you their services at that point; while you are in their office wanting to sign up for a border run. That's how it's done, otherwise you would still be waiting at the border as I type this.

There is also a certain responsibility on the customer's shoulders to get the attention of the agent and point out any concerns, and to explain to them that if you do not get your visa at the border - using their services - that your will be expecting a refund. NEVER pay a Thai company up front for anything without getting receipt that states on it what you are paying for and will get.

Most Thai agencies have gotten around border refusals by examining passports at the point of sale, because they do not like dealing with these kinds of passport problems. They know what they can and can not get by with once they reach the border and hand your passport over to their contacts. A Filipino agent in cahoots with a Thai border contact? Not in my lifetime! You assumed way too much if you did this in Thailand. Perhaps this was somewhere else, but you did not take the time to be more concise?

I am sorry to hear about your Filipino GF's problems, wherever she was at, at the time, and whoever it was that mislead her.It shouldn't have to be so damned difficult and riddled with stupidity.

[Arkady]

They built a new consulate in Vientiane just before visas went into a free period. Why did they build such a large area for issuing visas? If they keep knocking back so many applicants it'll turn into a ghost town soon.

Perhaps they built it to service Lao people wanting to come to Thailand and expected that farang tourists could apply for visas in their home countries.

[lostboy777]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

So what are you doing here then?...Mr self-righteous? Do you work?...have your own company?....or retired?

I worked here legally for over 7 years, but still had to pay 'beer' money of around US$400 per year so that my non 'B' visa didn't have 'issues'. Even though all the paperwork was correct,. The business wasn't a bar either.

There are lots of people living off and on in Thailand, but DO NOT work in Thailand, they are not criminals but only spend money here. There is no welfare system, so what is the issue?....Some of these people are not at retirement age, DO NOT work here, DO NOT have a Thai partner, so effectively they are a tourist.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Simple soultion. Get a new passport. Americans can renew there passport even if the old one is not expired. New passport + blank pages = no stickers to count.

Sorry Thairich but you are wrong with your solution.When you get a new passport all of the stamp's and visa's are transferred from the old passport to the new one.I just experienced this as i recently renewed my passport.

Anyway,it is their country and their rules and we are only guests here so,simple follow the rules or try another country with visa rules that suit one.I can't imagine what anyone would do staying here for months or years upon end unless one is retired here.Once you've seen the sites here the only thing to do is hang around in the bar's and drink.And one can't work unless you have the proper visa,not a tourist visa.

No visas are ever transferred into a new passport and the only stamps pertain the current stay and a note that is is being transferred from the former passport.

What 'lopburi3' describes is exactly what happened with my new passport - performed by a Thai Immigration officer at the Cambodian border last June on the second entry of a double-entry visa run. I presented both the previous and the new passports for the entry.

how was it transferred? cut out and glued in? Border immigration offices usually aren't allowed to issue visa's because of corruption issues.

[david555]

Breath-taking, the number of foreigners who think it is their right to inhabit someone else's country on their terms.

Its probably because our own countries are so lax on foreigners - we have 300,000 illegal immigrants in UK many whove been shipped over from France and our taxpayers pay for every one of them. Indians come to England they get a house a car a temple built for them and a job or a corner shop as they wish while our own people live on unemployment benefit, as well as this they get laws to protect them that dont protect natve citizens - I suppose thats what you get for having democracy and equality!! But thats what makes westerners at lease expect a short stay and a VISA in another country. The rights which Chinese communities enjoy all over the world FAR outweigh what westerners have or would expect to have in Thailand (or China for that matter)!! So PLEASE DONT accuse westerners of not having the right to a VISA when they give so much to the third world.

You are generally right .... but only one BIG difference , as those groups come western world they become having money / medical care and almost same (sometimes even more) rights as the genuine population , so there are some differences on this matter :jap: especially , NO arguments made about the easy way visa to Thailand

[ozzieovaseas]

The truth is, as you will see from a lot of posters on here, it is not easy to stay here long term if you are under 50 and don't want to work, or study....and YES, admittedly it is probably impossible in any other country.

It seems easy for the Filipino crowd. They always score double entry visas one way or another.

For anyone who was paying attention, Phnom Penh is the new location for double entries and has been since early last year. I even made posts about this and offered an agent's number if PM'd last year but there was little interest - people were too busy whinging about the problems in Vientiane. There have been other guys posting about how easy it is to get visas there and how to go about it too - do a search.

Filipinos aged in their 20's are getting them all year long. Do you think these Filipinos are independently wealthy and vacationing in Thailand all year long??? If you really need to know how to stay in Thailand get with this group because they always find a way.

PS Don't PM me for agents. I no longer have the contacts. If you search around you will find agents who can do visa runs to Cambodia.

Troppo,

Yes, i do recall your posts about the various agents last year and i suspect i have used the same ones, but I have recenty read a post on another thread stating that PhomPhen will not be issueing double entry visas as of feb 14th.,

The same poster also went on to say that he was told (by another visa run firm) that no visas will be issued to those travelling in large groups,(hinting at visa run companies i presume).

I have no idea whether any of this is true of course, but i did email a rather significant visa run company here in BK to ask if there was any truth in the rumours. The part owner of that company was telling me on my last run about how he has had some recent (although minor) altercations with the law and was awaiting some sort of hearing in the future. I still havent heard back from him.

Interesting also that you mention the ease in which the Phillipino's are getting the visas though. Correct me if wrong,but I do recall your earlier posts about your Phillino GF having a lot of trouble getting the visas, whereas you experienced no such troubles and was granted a DE on the same trip.

Anyway, since these sorts of issues seem to evoke mass hysteria and seem to snowball from a just a few experiences (especially when written on TV) i suspect the whole thing is a beat up.

As one poster said earlier...and what about the other 300 people a day who visit Vientane embassy and DO get the visa

[appropriate]

Laos, a strange place for western tourists to apply for a tourist visa.

Again, and again, and again, and again.

Virtually all tourists (99%?) don't even need a visa. And surely getting one at home before the holiday is easier. Unless you're all backpackers traveling Asia for months/years.

About time they tidied up this nonsense.

[Richard4849]

Many countries require visa applications be submitted in the applicant's home country only (unless they are overseas legitimately, for work, permanent residence, etc.).

Perhaps Thailand should consider this, especially since so many people seem to want to be treated how their countries treat foreign nationals?

[crazydrummerpauly]

The reigns should be tightened. You either qualify to work/live here, or you don't. Questionable people living/working here on tourist visas from neighbouring countries should be reined in, and if they don't meet the requirements to live/work here legally, they should be shipped out, with a short stay in a prison cell to teach them some respect for another country's visa laws.

I agree. But the solution isn't to limit Tourist Visas, the solution is to crack down on people working illegally. Not everyone getting multiple TVs over a few years is working illegally or otherwise. I was one of those people who lived 2 years in Thailand on Tourist Visas. I didn't work, taking a job from any Thai or anyone else. I spent a lot of money over that period and there are quite a few Thais and their businesses who would love to have me back as I was good income for them.

ABSO-blo-ody-LUTELY - i don't think Nong Khai would still have a musical-instrument shop if it wasn't for the cash i have dropped onto the counter over a 2-year period ! I have never worked in Thailand in my 2 years here, and my personal input into the Thai economy is way into the 7-figure region in baht. Against all the snipers and holier-than-thou posts here, i think Thailand should lay out the red-carpet for every well-behaved, solvent, law-abiding visitor and long-term resident - we are an ASSET to this under-developed, class-divided nation.

[crazydrummerpauly]

The long term farangs do not count as tourists. They should be considered 'immigrants'. Thai should allow long term visa for these immigrants, so they do not disrupt the neighboring countries.

What about off shore workers like myself who work 3 months on 3 months off?...there are a hell of a lot of us long term tourists

Disrupt neighbouring countries ? Hahaha.... yeah, Laos feels terribly disrupted every time it takes 1,500 baht for a single-entry visa !!!

[tropo]

'Not making assumptions. My info is backed by fact. You are the one making assumptions. When you let your Filipino GF use a Filipino agency, you assumed what they told you was true. When you read my post, you assumed that I was including Filipino agencies located in Thailand, when in fact I am speaking about Thai travel agencies who are connected with the border immigration posts and embassies in Laos and Cambodia.

Most people these days do not ask; they assume. Maybe because there is not enough time to entail every detail in one comment or conversation. Sorry to mislead you, but you need to ask, and not assume - in turn - and misjudge.

Any legitimate Thai travel agency will be able to look through your passport and singularly identify each problem you (and they) will have if they take you to the border and hand your passport over to their immigration contacts, through the backdoor. As a consequence, they will ordinarily refuse you their services at that point; while you are in their office wanting to sign up for a border run. That's how it's done, otherwise you would still be waiting at the border as I type this.

There is also a certain responsibility on the customer's shoulders to get the attention of the agent and point out any concerns, and to explain to them that if you do not get your visa at the border - using their services - that your will be expecting a refund. NEVER pay a Thai company up front for anything without getting receipt that states on it what you are paying for and will get.

Most Thai agencies have gotten around border refusals by examining passports at the point of sale, because they do not like dealing with these kinds of passport problems. They know what they can and can not get by with once they reach the border and hand your passport over to their contacts. A Filipino agent in cahoots with a Thai border contact? Not in my lifetime! You assumed way too much if you did this in Thailand. Perhaps this was somewhere else, but you did not take the time to be more concise?

I am sorry to hear about your Filipino GF's problems, wherever she was at, at the time, and whoever it was that mislead her.It shouldn't have to be so damned difficult and riddled with stupidity.

You're making a truck load of assumptions here and being rude in the process. You basically said I'm stupid because we failed to get a tourist visa because I'm the one who does the leg work. Let me tell you now that both of us managed to stay in Thailand continuously on tourist visa for 4 years -- don't call me stupid! Thankfully my gf is now my wife and we live happily on a retirement extensions.

My Filipino GF has never used a Filipino or Thai visa agent in Vientiane.

We used a Laos agent in Vientiane who had succeeded on 2 previous occasions. We had been successful for more than 3 years prior to that too.

The Filipino agents I was referring to are actually Thai visa companies that do a lot of business acquiring visas for Filipinos. They usually have Filipino staff to help make it a friendlier environment for Filipinos but the owners are Thai. As Thai companies they have the same contacts any of your so called agents have. They are currently hightly successful in acquiring double entry tourist visas out of Poipet and charge the lowest commissions out of any agents.

May I suggest you cut down on the coffee.

Edited February 8, 2011 by tropo

[KKvampire]

Typical Moronic Thai bureacreacy. 3 TR in 3 years, how crazy to refuse . I wonder if they will refuse when paying for TR is back April 1st?

[blackthorn2005]

Simple soultion. Get a new passport. Americans can renew there passport even if the old one is not expired. New passport + blank pages = no stickers to count.

Great if your a Yank!

[Maestro]

how was it transferred? cut out and glued in? Border immigration offices usually aren't allowed to issue visa's because of corruption issues.

What are you on about? Lopburi clearly said that no visa is ever transferred from the old passport to the new one.

First of all, you mustn't take the word "transfer" too literally. It is used in many contexts without meaning the physical move of something from one place to another. Thai immigration uses it on the form "TRANSFER STAMP TO NEW PASSPORT", which you need to fill out and submit when you have this service done at an immigration office.

This is what an immigration officer usually enters in the new passport:

1. A note about the country, number, place and date of issue of your old passport
   
2. A note about the latest visa or visa-exempt entry with which you entered Thailand
   
3. A copy of the arrival stamp of your last entry with a visa or visa-exempt
   
4. Where applicable, a copy of your current extension of stay.
   
5. Where applicable, a copy of the arrival stamp of your last arrival with a re-entry permit.
   

Here is an example of a "transfer" of stamps to a new passport, done apparently in Tak in August 2008:

www.thaivisa.com/forum/gallery/image/9162-transfer-stamps-old-to-new-passport-tak-20080804jpg/

Here is an example of a "transfer" of stamps to a new passport which covered also an annual extension of stay and an arrival with a re-entry permit (left passport page):

www.thaivisa.com/forum/gallery/image/9214-transfer-stamps-new-passport-tak-20071107jpg/

[PhetchStu]

I was in Laos for a New Visa last week, the Consulate Staff was making the effort to go through

everyones Passport and pointing out if they'd had too many consecutive tourist visas. I can see

their point in some ways, but for some who are in the lucky situation of being able to stay for long

stints - surely it benefits the country to receive the Revenue....

Maybe they should just Increase the Requirements and Data before they issue the Visa.............

[millwall_fan]

This is largely a product of the strong baht. Many guys who were happily retired here, many with Thai wives and children, lost their retirement visas because their pensions no longer reached the minimum amount required. The Thai Immigration dept were asked to lower the financial requirement to reflect this change (by the British ambassador amongst others) but refused. So these guys were forced to resort to tourist visas and other ingenious devices to stay here. That was a couple of years ago. They are now finding that they have used up all their options and the Thais won't grant them any further tourist visas as they plainly aren't tourists. Not surprisingly these guys get rather testy when people (like me in past, I must admit) advised them to get the correct visa. They can't. They don't have the money. They do, in many cases, have financial responsibility toward a Thai family and their income is just sufficient for that .

Immigration policy in this country is elitist, as is every other aspect of government policy. They only respect the rich. If my wife came to UK with me after 2 years she'd get permanent residency and after 5 more years a British passport, The only money required would be a couple of £500 payments to get the appropriate stamps and a very basic requirement to speak English.

The Thais at some point should recognise that there is an ethnic minority in their midst with fewer rights in Thailand than almost any other immigrant group in the world, despite having lived here in many cases for years an years. White, middle aged, male Farangs might not conisder themselves an ethnic minority, but we surely are!!

[lopburi3]

Those on retirement have the option to use a combination of funds in bank account and income so most who could meet the requirement with income only may have to use additional bank savings but suspect most can and do qualify without making tourist visa runs. If they have a Thai family they would also qualify for non immigrant O visa entry. Those that have and are still making most of the tourist visa runs are likely not eligable for other visa options.

[david555]

Those on retirement have the option to use a combination of funds in bank account and income so most who could meet the requirement with income only may have to use additional bank savings but suspect most can and do qualify without making tourist visa runs. If they have a Thai family they would also qualify for non immigrant O visa entry. Those that have and are still making most of the tourist visa runs are likely not eligable for other visa options.

the E.D. visa option is there too , and not only for Thai language, even Thai cooking or even martial arts (however not advisable for retired aged ones , it can give a break in difficult times to save for the missing money ..... married with Thai i think is only 40 000 a month , so even not available , sure it could be mixed with missing part on bank ... i think (not sure )

Edited February 9, 2011 by david555

[Mario2008]

^ No it cannot. An extension based on marriage is 40,000 a month OR 400,000 in the bank. A combination is not allowed.

[david555]

^ No it cannot. An extension based on marriage is 40,000 a month OR 400,000 in the bank. A combination is not allowed.

not important for me ( not married here ), but could give those guy's a break........, looks like immigration is playing a chess game... , Thai logic ... never can follow it , but respect their rules , if the trouble should come my way .... i move Cambodia , seems business visa quite easy to get there , and Pattaya not too far for a visit (as long they are not in War games )

[Richard4849]

Typical Moronic Thai bureacreacy. 3 TR in 3 years, how crazy to refuse . I wonder if they will refuse when paying for TR is back April 1st?

Please sir, humor us.

What country do you come from? What is the process for a Thai national to obtain a tourist visa to visit there, and how long are they allowed to stay?

[Claedeus]

Ok so does anyone can confirm this please :

- If i have a brand new passport, i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ? (even if i had 3 visa in my last passport)

- Is it still free for a Double entry visa ?

[tropo]

Ok so does anyone can confirm this please :

- If i have a brand new passport, i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ? (even if i had 3 visa in my last passport)

- Is it still free for a Double entry visa ?

Yes. My Filipino wife was refused (back when we weren't married) - got new passport - then a new double entry from Vientiane.

They are still free until sometime in March.